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Tank watch

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#141 » by jbk1234 » Sat May 8, 2021 4:37 am

There's currently a three way tie for the 4th worst record.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#142 » by Stillwater » Sat May 8, 2021 5:04 am

And they split the series with okc and lost all games vs Orlando. So hopefully okc gets another win hell maybe wolves get one they should get that 3rd spot
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#143 » by JonFromVA » Sat May 8, 2021 3:38 pm

jbk1234 wrote:There's currently a three way tie for the 4th worst record.


Tank-a-thon shows us in 4th implying we currently hold the tie breakers, all 3 teams would have the same odds of moving up, but if we don't we could benefit.

We're just 1 game out of tying for 2nd.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#144 » by LivingLegend » Sat May 8, 2021 4:59 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
tundraknight wrote:
We used to have our super 6th man in Jordan Clarkson, who is currently a PERFECT FIT on the Jazz.

If the Cavaliers get lucky in the draft lottery, another direction they could take is to draft Jalen Green to start along side Garland in the backcourt.

And Sexton could be that energetic, scoring machine, super 6th man off the bench.

Those types of players are very important for teams with contender aspirations.


Agreed, problem is convincing Sexton in a contract year to come off the bench. I dont think that will end well. The Cavs need to trade him because if the 2nd half of this season has taught me anything its that 1) Garland is the superior player to build around and 2) Kevin Love is beyond washed and needs to stop being a diva every 2 weeks.
I think the decision on whether you trade Sexton is going to be closely tied to what you can get for him. The important thing is not to extend him early and ruin his trade value by poison pilling him.

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Thats true, it also depends on the stupid ping pong balls of where the Cavs pick lands. I however have no idea what team would trade for Sexton/ Not sure how many teams need to volume scoring combo guard that is a tweener in terms of starter/bench player.

Knicks? Mavericks? Timberwolves?
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#145 » by Harper4Ferry? » Sat May 8, 2021 5:36 pm

I'm already assuming that we'll win a tiebreaker and the loser will get the #1 pick, or lose the tiebreaker and the winner will get it. And we'll bounce down to as low as we can possibly go.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#146 » by JonFromVA » Sat May 8, 2021 9:01 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I'm already assuming that we'll win a tiebreaker and the loser will get the #1 pick, or lose the tiebreaker and the winner will get it. And we'll bounce down to as low as we can possibly go.


If I remember right, they may do a coin flip to decide which team gets an extra ping pong ball or something like that, but the order is determined by stuff like head to head or conference record/whatever.

Which doesn't mean we can't get screwed ... apparently we lost a coin flip with New Orleans that gave us better odds, but landed them Anthony Davis.

Or of course there was the time James decided to sleep walk through a regular season game in New Jersey, and if we'd won that game we probably get Doncic instead of Sexton.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#147 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 2:16 am

There is now a 4 way tie for the second worst record in the NBA.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#148 » by Stillwater » Mon May 10, 2021 3:19 am

I am drafting Suggs or Cade with Mobley gone and trading DG for a late lottery post lottery late teen pick to the Celtics for Nesmith Langford and their 21 1st in the 13-17 range where I am taking the best fit of Isaiah Todd, Wagner,Greg Brown or Hurt.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#149 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:26 am

Stillwater wrote:I am drafting Suggs or Cade with Mobley gone and trading DG for a late lottery post lottery late teen pick to the Celtics for Nesmith Langford and their 21 1st in the 13-17 range where I am taking the best fit of Isaiah Todd, Wagner,Greg Brown or Hurt.
Suggs isn't better than Garland and you've solved nothing in terms of starting him alongside of Sexton.

You must really, really like losing if you'd make that Garland trade. Thank god you don't run the Cavs.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#150 » by Stillwater » Mon May 10, 2021 3:59 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I am drafting Suggs or Cade with Mobley gone and trading DG for a late lottery post lottery late teen pick to the Celtics for Nesmith Langford and their 21 1st in the 13-17 range where I am taking the best fit of Isaiah Todd, Wagner,Greg Brown or Hurt.
Suggs isn't better than Garland and you've solved nothing in terms of starting him alongside of Sexton.

You must really, really like losing if you'd make that Garland trade. Thank god you don't run the Cavs.

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I wish we could have seen DG without Sexton scoring 20 a game and seen if he could produce that while still dumping off lob passes and if anyone could have made up for Sexton not being there
DG is not that good of a pg not as good as you claim
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#151 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 4:20 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I am drafting Suggs or Cade with Mobley gone and trading DG for a late lottery post lottery late teen pick to the Celtics for Nesmith Langford and their 21 1st in the 13-17 range where I am taking the best fit of Isaiah Todd, Wagner,Greg Brown or Hurt.
Suggs isn't better than Garland and you've solved nothing in terms of starting him alongside of Sexton.

You must really, really like losing if you'd make that Garland trade. Thank god you don't run the Cavs.

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I wish we could have seen DG without Sexton scoring 20 a game and seen if he could produce that while still dumping off lob passes and if anyone could have made up for Sexton not being there
DG is not that good of a pg not as good as you claim
We have seen DG play without Sexton. While the results were still loses, they weren't 20 point losses. I'm willing to bet if the Cavs options at backup SG were better than Cedi or G League, we'd have won a couple of them.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#152 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 10, 2021 2:46 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Suggs isn't better than Garland and you've solved nothing in terms of starting him alongside of Sexton.

You must really, really like losing if you'd make that Garland trade. Thank god you don't run the Cavs.

I wish we could have seen DG without Sexton scoring 20 a game and seen if he could produce that while still dumping off lob passes and if anyone could have made up for Sexton not being there
DG is not that good of a pg not as good as you claim
We have seen DG play without Sexton. While the results were still loses, they weren't 20 point losses. I'm willing to bet if the Cavs options at backup SG were better than Cedi or G League, we'd have won a couple of them.


It's pretty brutal what's going on without a PG on the roster. Wade, Love, and Allen scored 3, 8, and 5 points respectively. What do they have in common? They need someone to pass them the ball in position to score.

Clearly the answer isn't to trade the one PG we have, and even if we drafted a PG, all we will do is reset the clock on his learning curve and continue to hold back the team.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#153 » by Stillwater » Mon May 10, 2021 4:28 pm

There is nothing about trading either of them that screams success sooner by doing so and in fact it is pretty unlikely the org is even considering it right now. But it would be easier to move Garland. Maybe this time next season things will look different from a spacing perspective but without upgrading to a better pg it isnt going to matter who they put next to DG bigger longer etc if they cannot score as much as Sexton does and be so much better defensively that is justifiable to set the rebuild back another year passing up on a elite forward. So unless they love Green and have a chance to draft him even though he is a sh*t defender too I dont see them even considering moving Sexton and even if they do it wont be until after he is extended wants traded etc but if you gave me the option of rolling out Cade and Sexton vs DG and Green I am going with the first option, and on top of all that I would not be at all surprised if it is DG's camp pushing the narrative that players would welcome a trade because it kills his brand that he has not made the team better as the guy being tasked with that job. Getting a good assist % doesnt say much when the sg come in while you are out and gets just as many no matter how haphazardly it happens or how many scrubs are out there
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#154 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 6:27 pm

Stillwater wrote:There is nothing about trading either of them that screams success sooner by doing so and in fact it is pretty unlikely the org is even considering it right now. But it would be easier to move Garland. Maybe this time next season things will look different from a spacing perspective but without upgrading to a better pg it isnt going to matter who they put next to DG bigger longer etc if they cannot score as much as Sexton does and be so much better defensively that is justifiable to set the rebuild back another year passing up on a elite forward. So unless they love Green and have a chance to draft him even though he is a sh*t defender too I dont see them even considering moving Sexton and even if they do it wont be until after he is extended wants traded etc but if you gave me the option of rolling out Cade and Sexton vs DG and Green I am going with the first option, and on top of all that I would not be at all surprised if it is DG's camp pushing the narrative that players would welcome a trade because it kills his brand that he has not made the team better as the guy being tasked with that job. Getting a good assist % doesnt say much when the sg come in while you are out and gets just as many no matter how haphazardly it happens or how many scrubs are out there


If Sexton is such the better player, why would it be easier to move Garland? I mean it's obvious, right? There should be a long line of suitors for Sexton if it's that obvious.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#155 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 10, 2021 6:42 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:There is nothing about trading either of them that screams success sooner by doing so and in fact it is pretty unlikely the org is even considering it right now. But it would be easier to move Garland. Maybe this time next season things will look different from a spacing perspective but without upgrading to a better pg it isnt going to matter who they put next to DG bigger longer etc if they cannot score as much as Sexton does and be so much better defensively that is justifiable to set the rebuild back another year passing up on a elite forward. So unless they love Green and have a chance to draft him even though he is a sh*t defender too I dont see them even considering moving Sexton and even if they do it wont be until after he is extended wants traded etc but if you gave me the option of rolling out Cade and Sexton vs DG and Green I am going with the first option, and on top of all that I would not be at all surprised if it is DG's camp pushing the narrative that players would welcome a trade because it kills his brand that he has not made the team better as the guy being tasked with that job. Getting a good assist % doesnt say much when the sg come in while you are out and gets just as many no matter how haphazardly it happens or how many scrubs are out there


If Sexton is such the better player, why would it be easier to move Garland? I mean it's obvious, right? There should be a long line of suitors for Sexton if it's that obvious.


Would you trade Sexton for Nesmith, Langford, and the 21st pick in the draft?
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#156 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 6:46 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:There is nothing about trading either of them that screams success sooner by doing so and in fact it is pretty unlikely the org is even considering it right now. But it would be easier to move Garland. Maybe this time next season things will look different from a spacing perspective but without upgrading to a better pg it isnt going to matter who they put next to DG bigger longer etc if they cannot score as much as Sexton does and be so much better defensively that is justifiable to set the rebuild back another year passing up on a elite forward. So unless they love Green and have a chance to draft him even though he is a sh*t defender too I dont see them even considering moving Sexton and even if they do it wont be until after he is extended wants traded etc but if you gave me the option of rolling out Cade and Sexton vs DG and Green I am going with the first option, and on top of all that I would not be at all surprised if it is DG's camp pushing the narrative that players would welcome a trade because it kills his brand that he has not made the team better as the guy being tasked with that job. Getting a good assist % doesnt say much when the sg come in while you are out and gets just as many no matter how haphazardly it happens or how many scrubs are out there


If Sexton is such the better player, why would it be easier to move Garland? I mean it's obvious, right? There should be a long line of suitors for Sexton if it's that obvious.


Would you trade Sexton for Nesmith, Langford, and the 21st pick in the draft?


I'd call N.O. and Philly first, but if push came to shove, yes.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#157 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 10, 2021 7:06 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
If Sexton is such the better player, why would it be easier to move Garland? I mean it's obvious, right? There should be a long line of suitors for Sexton if it's that obvious.


Would you trade Sexton for Nesmith, Langford, and the 21st pick in the draft?


I'd call N.O. and Philly first, but if push came to shove, yes.


I like Nesmith and I wouldn't.

Nesmith and Okoro at the wings would be problematic unless one or both of them takes a huge step forward next season.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#158 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 7:17 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Would you trade Sexton for Nesmith, Langford, and the 21st pick in the draft?


I'd call N.O. and Philly first, but if push came to shove, yes.


I like Nesmith and I wouldn't.

Nesmith and Okoro at the wings would be problematic unless one or both of them takes a huge step forward next season.


We don't know where or who we'll be selecting with our pick. There's no rule that says you can't ship Langford and/or that 1st out for a replacement level SG to hold down the fort for a year. I'd like a true NBA backup PG. I might attach a couple of seconds to Prince to see if you can get Rubio out of Minny, especially if Love is moving to the bench as he should.

But this level of suck can't continue. The team as was as the organization is in danger of spiraling.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#159 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 10, 2021 7:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I'd call N.O. and Philly first, but if push came to shove, yes.


I like Nesmith and I wouldn't.

Nesmith and Okoro at the wings would be problematic unless one or both of them takes a huge step forward next season.


We don't know where or who we'll be selecting with our pick. There's no rule that says you can't ship Langford and/or that 1st out for a replacement level SG to hold down the fort for a year. I'd like a true NBA backup PG. I might attach a couple of seconds to Prince to see if you can get Rubio out of Minny, especially if Love is moving to the bench as he should.

But this level of suck can't continue. The team as was as the organization is in danger of spiraling.


I've been thinking about the step that Utah and Phoenix took this year after adding veteran PG's to their roster, went back and forth a bit, but what I'm thinking is we probably need to continue to suck.

Our next draft pick will be important, but it'd be foolish to think he'll be ready to help us win. All our young players need a lot more minutes.

Basically when our youngest core player is starting his 3rd season, that's probably about time to make our move.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#160 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 7:52 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I like Nesmith and I wouldn't.

Nesmith and Okoro at the wings would be problematic unless one or both of them takes a huge step forward next season.


We don't know where or who we'll be selecting with our pick. There's no rule that says you can't ship Langford and/or that 1st out for a replacement level SG to hold down the fort for a year. I'd like a true NBA backup PG. I might attach a couple of seconds to Prince to see if you can get Rubio out of Minny, especially if Love is moving to the bench as he should.

But this level of suck can't continue. The team as was as the organization is in danger of spiraling.


I've been thinking about the step that Utah and Phoenix took this year after adding veteran PG's to their roster, went back and forth a bit, but what I'm thinking is we probably need to continue to suck.

Our next draft pick will be important, but it'd be foolish to think he'll be ready to help us win. All our young players need a lot more minutes.

Basically when our youngest core player is starting his 3rd season, that's probably about time to make our move.


There's a big difference between even picking late in the lottery and where the Cavs are now. Especially with the new lottery odds. But I sincerely believe that this level of awful cannot continue for a number of reasons, and things that can't continue, don't.

In terms of young players needing minutes, you don't have to start rookies. Quite a few really good players in the NBA learned coming off the bench their first couple of years. You don't have to gift them minutes. You can make them earn those minutes by having them build up those good habits in practice or the G League. Canton isn't that far away. What you do have to have is better players on the roster who objectively deserve to be in front of them on the depth chart. That's something the Cavs haven't really had since Sexton's rookie year when we shipped out Burke, Hood, and Clarkson. Even those guys were only good bench players.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

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