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Tank watch

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JonFromVA
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#181 » by JonFromVA » Fri May 14, 2021 2:55 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:
If we could get Ingram(and even if we had to take back Adams?) for Sexton and Love I'm driving everyone to the airport to make it happen.

Id rather keep Sexton and send Love home on paid leave than bring a pot head into CLE and have the ownership group decide he was a bad image and trade him for a typewriter to Houston


Bad decisions from Cleveland management go all the way back(and way further) to trading Ron Harper for Danny Ferry because Harper had sketchy friends. I seem to remember Darius Miles having his house/apartment searched and the next week he was traded for Jeff McInnis.


I wouldn't had categorized trading Miles for JMac as a bad deal at the time, even though he didn't last. It let us move LeBron to SF, made us competitive, and while Miles eventually turned in to a useful player, that didn't last either.

I suppose if I ever felt invested in Miles as a player, I'd feel differently trading a top draft pick with "unlimited potential" for a journeyman PG; but he was a hot mess in Cleveland and one of our tank commanders. All we had to do was add a couple of crappy vets to our starting lineup in JMac and Eric Williams with a couple more crappy vets in Battie and Newble shoring up the bench and the Cavs started winning.

If everything else was right with Miles and he somehow avoided injuries, he was at the very least a story in patience with high upside 19 year old prospects; because he didn't start to putting it together on the floor until he was 23 and on his 3rd team. Plus how essential it is to get those prospects to the point they can contribute to winning.

We didn't have time for that sort of patience once the LeBron clock started ticking, albeit the alternate universe where we developed a young roster around James would have been interesting to see play out. I bet a big reason we drafted Luke Jackson was because he played 4 years at Oregon passing on some high upside HS players like Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, and JR Smith.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#182 » by toooskies » Fri May 14, 2021 3:04 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Id rather keep Sexton and send Love home on paid leave than bring a pot head into CLE and have the ownership group decide he was a bad image and trade him for a typewriter to Houston


Bad decisions from Cleveland management go all the way back(and way further) to trading Ron Harper for Danny Ferry because Harper had sketchy friends. I seem to remember Darius Miles having his house/apartment searched and the next week he was traded for Jeff McInnis.


I wouldn't had categorized trading Miles for JMac as a bad deal at the time, even though he didn't last. It let us move LeBron to SF, made us competitive, and while Miles eventually turned in to a useful player, that didn't last either.

I suppose if I ever felt invested in Miles as a player, I'd feel differently trading a top draft pick with "unlimited potential" for a journeyman PG; but he was a hot mess in Cleveland and one of our tank commanders. All we had to do was add a couple of crappy vets to our starting lineup in JMac and Eric Williams with a couple more crappy vets in Battie and Newble shoring up the bench and the Cavs started winning.

If everything else was right with Miles and he somehow avoided injuries, he was at the very least a story in patience with high upside 19 year old prospects; because he didn't start to putting it together on the floor until he was 23 and on his 3rd team. Plus how essential it is to get those prospects to the point they can contribute to winning.

We didn't have time for that sort of patience once the LeBron clock started ticking, albeit the alternate universe where we developed a young roster around James would have been interesting to see play out. I bet a big reason we drafted Luke Jackson was because he played 4 years at Oregon passing on some high upside HS players like Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, and JR Smith.


I had a Carlos Boozer jersey for a short period. Not sure what became of it, I think I lost it before he joined the Jazz.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#183 » by jbk1234 » Fri May 14, 2021 3:16 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Imagine if Isaac Okoro was going out there defending and trying to score against the Nesmith's and Langford's of the league night in and night out rather than the Jayson Tatum's or playing with veteran PG's like Edwards.
Edwards is pretty awful but I get the overall point.


Do you think anyone else has a shot at ROY other than Edwards?

The voters seem to like rooks who score 20ppg ... if the coaches were voting, maybe Isaac would actually have a shot?

LaMelo has been pretty up & down since returning, but I suppose he still has a shot.
Oh, wrong Edwards. I thought you were taking about Boston's Edwards.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#184 » by jbk1234 » Fri May 14, 2021 3:19 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:It is showcasing Love still has it that makes this win bearable for me, but it was a serious blow to be tied for 3rd and immediately a shoe in for 5th or 6th before the damn drawing with a meaningless win.
Maybe with OKC playing Utah who with a win tonight lock up the 1 seed might rest players against OKC in the reg season finale enough to gift OKC a win or maybe Orlando gets that outcome playing the sixers twice but the odds are also good the Cavs win again against the Nets in their last game if Phily has already locked up the 1 seed.
I guess it doesnt really make much difference being at 2nd worse didnt
One good game at the end of the season isn't going to change anyone's mind.

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bs he proved he is not washed up and did it convincingly . Did he prove he is not a injury waiting to happen or did it increase the ability to trade him for anyone good not really...but it did spark some interest without question esp with the underlying reality that teams may buy into the man just not being engaged or into playing for a bad team but was able to get it up for the fan appreciation night and go out in style. Of course all the majority of us want is for them to lose for a higher pick but KLove is not going to be a Cav past this summer imo.
It's going to take more, a lot more, than one game to convince another team that he's not washed.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#185 » by Stillwater » Fri May 14, 2021 3:52 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:One good game at the end of the season isn't going to change anyone's mind.

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bs he proved he is not washed up and did it convincingly . Did he prove he is not a injury waiting to happen or did it increase the ability to trade him for anyone good not really...but it did spark some interest without question esp with the underlying reality that teams may buy into the man just not being engaged or into playing for a bad team but was able to get it up for the fan appreciation night and go out in style. Of course all the majority of us want is for them to lose for a higher pick but KLove is not going to be a Cav past this summer imo.
It's going to take more, a lot more, than one game to convince another team that he's not washed.

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I guess we can watch him do it tonight and against the Nets completely ruining the Cavs good odds at a high pick but if it were me that was the last game he plays for the wine and gold even if it does only mean he gets bought out this summer
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#186 » by jbk1234 » Fri May 14, 2021 5:23 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:bs he proved he is not washed up and did it convincingly . Did he prove he is not a injury waiting to happen or did it increase the ability to trade him for anyone good not really...but it did spark some interest without question esp with the underlying reality that teams may buy into the man just not being engaged or into playing for a bad team but was able to get it up for the fan appreciation night and go out in style. Of course all the majority of us want is for them to lose for a higher pick but KLove is not going to be a Cav past this summer imo.
It's going to take more, a lot more, than one game to convince another team that he's not washed.

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I guess we can watch him do it tonight and against the Nets completely ruining the Cavs good odds at a high pick but if it were me that was the last game he plays for the wine and gold even if it does only mean he gets bought out this summer


I think you leave that ball in his court. He can still add value as a stretch 4 off the bench. Obviously, he needs to report in shape next training camp.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#187 » by JonFromVA » Fri May 14, 2021 6:16 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:It's going to take more, a lot more, than one game to convince another team that he's not washed.

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I guess we can watch him do it tonight and against the Nets completely ruining the Cavs good odds at a high pick but if it were me that was the last game he plays for the wine and gold even if it does only mean he gets bought out this summer


I think you leave that ball in his court. He can still add value as a stretch 4 off the bench. Obviously, he needs to report in shape next training camp.


He was supposedly in great shape at the start of this season, he just couldn't make it past game 2 without getting hurt.

What would help Kevin (and all the vets around the league) is a more normal routine of recharging over the Summer followed by training camp and pre-season games to ease themselves back in to game shape.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#188 » by Stillwater » Fri May 14, 2021 10:23 pm

I am fairly certain the Cavs are going to at least lose these last 2 games and stay at 6th at worse no matter what else happens around the league but they will have to move up in the drawing or they will be picking 8-10 imo.
Pretty bad considering where they should be. Maybe this is the year lady luck shows up for them but I am not getting my hopes up.
Maybe it is premature to start looking at tier 23 and 4 prospects but pfs like Kai Jones, Isaiah Todd ,SFs like Wagner,Champagne and Moody maybe a couple guards in that range : Juzang or Springer all could add something of value to this team but if they fall in that 8-10 range I am seriously considering looking at high upside intl projects like Sengun & Giddey if still available. If gone and I am staying stateside trying to trade down for another 22 1st and go for the proven Butler,Kispert or some athletic freak that slides like Keon Johnson or Day'ron Sharpe
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#189 » by tundraknight » Mon May 17, 2021 4:34 am

So when exactly is the legendary coin flip going to happen to break the tie between the Cavaliers and Thunder?

This decides wether the Cavaliers will be 4th or 5th pre lottery.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#190 » by Stillwater » Mon May 17, 2021 4:36 am

tundraknight wrote:So when exactly is the legendary coin flip going to happen to break the tie between the Cavaliers and Thunder?

good question I dont think the number of ping pongs is that much different 4 to 5 but 4th is better obviously because you cant fall past 8
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#191 » by Stillwater » Tue May 18, 2021 12:17 am

If neither of the two teams receives a top-four pick in the June 22nd lottery a coin flip will be used to determine who picks first
Cavs & OKC have a meh 11.5% chance at a top 4 pick
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Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#192 » by jbk1234 » Tue May 18, 2021 12:45 am

Stillwater wrote:If neither of the two teams receives a top-four pick in the June 22nd lottery a coin flip will be used to determine who picks first
Cavs & OKC have a meh 11.5% chance at a top 4 pick
Those are the odds for selecting at No. 4. You'll have a little better than a 40% chance at picking with the top 4.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#193 » by Stillwater » Tue May 18, 2021 1:09 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:If neither of the two teams receives a top-four pick in the June 22nd lottery a coin flip will be used to determine who picks first
Cavs & OKC have a meh 11.5% chance at a top 4 pick
Those are the odds for selecting at No. 4. You'll have a little better than a 40% chance at picking with the top 4.

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I am not sure I get your point I mean there is a certain number of lottery balls with each teams code on it for each of the 4 draws and the correct code is 11.5% of the total codes in the mix so each ball drawn in total is a sum of over 40% but the odds are still only 11.5 each draw which far less optimal
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#194 » by KuruptedCav » Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:If neither of the two teams receives a top-four pick in the June 22nd lottery a coin flip will be used to determine who picks first
Cavs & OKC have a meh 11.5% chance at a top 4 pick
Those are the odds for selecting at No. 4. You'll have a little better than a 40% chance at picking with the top 4.

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I am not sure I get your point I mean there is a certain number of lottery balls with each teams code on it for each of the 4 draws and the correct code is 11.5% of the total codes in the mix so each ball drawn in total is a sum of over 40% but the odds are still only 11.5 each draw which far less optimal

The odds are fixed until a draw is made. Then the codes of the team that won the 1st pick are removed after that pick. If a team at the top of the draft wins, your odds for the next pick increase. If a team worse than you wins, then your odds decrease.

While, I don’t understand the 40% folks, it’s also not correct that you have an 11.5% on each of the draws. You could have a 20% chance at #4 if the lottery goes in order.


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Re: Tank watch 

Post#195 » by Stillwater » Tue May 18, 2021 12:31 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Those are the odds for selecting at No. 4. You'll have a little better than a 40% chance at picking with the top 4.

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I am not sure I get your point I mean there is a certain number of lottery balls with each teams code on it for each of the 4 draws and the correct code is 11.5% of the total codes in the mix so each ball drawn in total is a sum of over 40% but the odds are still only 11.5 each draw which far less optimal

The odds are fixed until a draw is made. Then the codes of the team that won the 1st pick are removed after that pick. If a team at the top of the draft wins, your odds for the next pick increase. If a team worse than you wins, then your odds decrease.

While, I don’t understand the 40% folks, it’s also not correct that you have an 11.5% on each of the draws. You could have a 20% chance at #4 if the lottery goes in order.


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Yeah the way i look at it is the 4 number combination assignment for CLE has an 11.5% chance of being drawn at 1 aka the first draw. When draw 2 begins only one other teams combination was chosen the combination assignment has no better chance of getting chosen beyond that 1 less combo can get it.
2 less 3 less and done.
I just think it really only matters how far they can slide as far as odds for winning or losing the losing is king.
So if winning the coin toss isnt about 11.5 vs 10.5 as much as it is about 8 or 9 in worst case or 6 instead of 7 realistically with 2 teams leapfrog into 1-4 most reasonable
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#196 » by Harper4Ferry? » Tue May 18, 2021 5:49 pm

I think they just split the combos evenly and then we flip for whomever is ranked 4 vs 5. I hate the way they do the lottery. I wish they would come up with some other system. To suck all season and then to most likely fall to 6 or 7 is horrible.

I just know we aren't going to have any lottery luck this time.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#197 » by JonFromVA » Tue May 18, 2021 9:29 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I think they just split the combos evenly and then we flip for whomever is ranked 4 vs 5. I hate the way they do the lottery. I wish they would come up with some other system. To suck all season and then to most likely fall to 6 or 7 is horrible.

I just know we aren't going to have any lottery luck this time.


If you hate it, then it must be working - at least partially.

Teams have grown in to contenders with far fewer assets than the stream of picks we've drafted during our current and previous rebuild. The challenge for the Cavs is figuring out how to manage what comes after the "asset collection" phase.

One of the common approaches is to trade players you have for players you need, but first you have to be able to convince another GM that you have something they need. Hard to do when we're constantly running the value of our players in to the dirt because we prefer to expose their weakness than play to their strengths.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#198 » by Stillwater » Sun May 23, 2021 8:31 pm

until we know next month where we are at I will assume its 6th
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/851183/
Here they pass on Green at 6 [I know i know] trade down 3 spots to take Greens Ignite teammate Isaiah Todd the 5 star sf pf who is by all accounts just as much the prospect and a polished scorer with a dribble drive finishing ability sweet shot etc. he had limited usage on that Gleague team but the butter is in the pan and he is gonna sizzle in the NBA.
They also get their 2nd rounder back + a late one for swapping Windler with Josh Hart (injured) who when healthy is a great fit next to both Sexton and Garland in the back court.
I have them take Wieskamp the 3 point specialist and potential Duncan Robinson clone at 35 and a flier on a developmental back up pg in Steward who should have stayed in school but has a really solid shooting ability and athleticism to develop in the case that either guard gets hurt.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"

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