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Tank watch

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Revenged25
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#21 » by Revenged25 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:36 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
Stillwater wrote:^ I hear you ...How to build a contender and finding talent are one thing but the point i was making is there are zero generation leading potential prospects that will likely ever fall outside the top 10 just based on poor competition like why greek freak slid.
Of course we are already seeing poku look like a top 10 prospect but he isnt a generational upside player .
Cavs can get something in the mid late lottery if they actually knew how to scout not sold they do and just have been lucky Sextons game has come so far

So first, you assume that finding and identifying the generational upside player at the top of the draft is easy. Not really! Here's the list of league MVPs since 2001 who went #1 overall: LeBron, Tim Duncan, Derrick Rose. Here's the list of #1 picks who won championships without changing teams since 2001: Kyrie, Tim Duncan (Zion, Simmons, Ayton might join them, although Zion is the only true generational upside guy). There's some other interesting names, but building your team from the draft is just a way to make bad teams feel better about losing.

But there's no point in believing a generational talent will stay in Cleveland anyway. Kyrie forced his way out. LeBron left twice. Anthony Davis forced his way out. Dwight Howard was going to leave, so he was traded.

So bottoming out and building with a generational talent has a very, very, very low chance of working out. They're... LeBron coming back kind of odds.
You don't need generational talent, but you do need top end talent. I'd rather try to build around a guy like Morant or Doncic, then build a team around Sexton. You need a cornerstone and right now we don't have one. Worrying about that player leaving seven or eight years after he's drafted is one of those good problems to have.

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Well as long as you aren't thinking Garland is some cornerstone then we can all agree Sexton isn't one either, though he's definitely the caliber of player you see as a key part of a championship level team. Honestly the Cavs are still in a point of drafting the best available talent, outside of center as there's no Howard/Shaq/Oden level talent that warrants moving on from Allen.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#22 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:39 pm

Stillwater wrote:
toooskies wrote:
Stillwater wrote:^ I hear you ...How to build a contender and finding talent are one thing but the point i was making is there are zero generation leading potential prospects that will likely ever fall outside the top 10 just based on poor competition like why greek freak slid.
Of course we are already seeing poku look like a top 10 prospect but he isnt a generational upside player .
Cavs can get something in the mid late lottery if they actually knew how to scout not sold they do and just have been lucky Sextons game has come so far

So first, you assume that finding and identifying the generational upside player at the top of the draft is easy. Not really! Here's the list of league MVPs since 2001 who went #1 overall: LeBron, Tim Duncan, Derrick Rose. Here's the list of #1 picks who won championships without changing teams since 2001: Kyrie, Tim Duncan (Zion, Simmons, Ayton might join them, although Zion is the only true generational upside guy). There's some other interesting names, but building your team from the draft is just a way to make bad teams feel better about losing.

But there's no point in believing a generational talent will stay in Cleveland anyway. Kyrie forced his way out. LeBron left twice. Anthony Davis forced his way out. Dwight Howard was going to leave, so he was traded.

So bottoming out and building with a generational talent has a very, very, very low chance of working out. They're... LeBron coming back kind of odds.

You dont follow what I am suggesting at all here. Nobody thought Giannis was going to be this good because of the prejudice used in scouting for decades regarding players in weak leagues no matter how dominant they were. That sentiment has changed since him falling so far and there is no way anyone will pass on somebody with that baseline archetype if there ever is another one that has nothing to do with the difficulty you have assessing prospects. For example, everyone thought Ja and Zion were the best players from the draft and as of right now they clearly were... in seasons previously Ja would have fallen 10 spots playing at Murray state


fwiw ... Lillard went 6th after spending 4 years at Webber St .. which was basically two strikes against him. They doubled down drafting McCollum out of Lehigh at 10, but we can call him a triple threat due to his injury history in college.

Some teams are just better at evaluating talent/risks than others.

As for our Cavs?

We bank on guys like Cristian Eyenga because we got word the Raptors were trying to "hide him" overseas.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#23 » by toooskies » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:09 pm

Stillwater wrote:
toooskies wrote:
Stillwater wrote:^ I hear you ...How to build a contender and finding talent are one thing but the point i was making is there are zero generation leading potential prospects that will likely ever fall outside the top 10 just based on poor competition like why greek freak slid.
Of course we are already seeing poku look like a top 10 prospect but he isnt a generational upside player .
Cavs can get something in the mid late lottery if they actually knew how to scout not sold they do and just have been lucky Sextons game has come so far

So first, you assume that finding and identifying the generational upside player at the top of the draft is easy. Not really! Here's the list of league MVPs since 2001 who went #1 overall: LeBron, Tim Duncan, Derrick Rose. Here's the list of #1 picks who won championships without changing teams since 2001: Kyrie, Tim Duncan (Zion, Simmons, Ayton might join them, although Zion is the only true generational upside guy). There's some other interesting names, but building your team from the draft is just a way to make bad teams feel better about losing.

But there's no point in believing a generational talent will stay in Cleveland anyway. Kyrie forced his way out. LeBron left twice. Anthony Davis forced his way out. Dwight Howard was going to leave, so he was traded.

So bottoming out and building with a generational talent has a very, very, very low chance of working out. They're... LeBron coming back kind of odds.

You dont follow what I am suggesting at all here. Nobody thought Giannis was going to be this good because of the prejudice used in scouting for decades regarding players in weak leagues no matter how dominant they were. That sentiment has changed since him falling so far and there is no way anyone will pass on somebody with that baseline archetype if there ever is another one that has nothing to do with the difficulty you have assessing prospects. For example, everyone thought Ja and Zion were the best players from the draft and as of right now they clearly were... in seasons previously Ja would have fallen 10 spots playing at Murray state

Sorry, assumed you were making an argument that good players don't slip in the draft anymore, which didn't seem worth acknowledging. 8 times out of 10 the foreign talent that you don't know enough about ends up being more like Dragan Bender than Giannis.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#24 » by jbk1234 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:36 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:So first, you assume that finding and identifying the generational upside player at the top of the draft is easy. Not really! Here's the list of league MVPs since 2001 who went #1 overall: LeBron, Tim Duncan, Derrick Rose. Here's the list of #1 picks who won championships without changing teams since 2001: Kyrie, Tim Duncan (Zion, Simmons, Ayton might join them, although Zion is the only true generational upside guy). There's some other interesting names, but building your team from the draft is just a way to make bad teams feel better about losing.

But there's no point in believing a generational talent will stay in Cleveland anyway. Kyrie forced his way out. LeBron left twice. Anthony Davis forced his way out. Dwight Howard was going to leave, so he was traded.

So bottoming out and building with a generational talent has a very, very, very low chance of working out. They're... LeBron coming back kind of odds.
You don't need generational talent, but you do need top end talent. I'd rather try to build around a guy like Morant or Doncic, then build a team around Sexton. You need a cornerstone and right now we don't have one. Worrying about that player leaving seven or eight years after he's drafted is one of those good problems to have.


We've had top picks in the past 3 years, what has sucking done for the franchise?

I look at Donovan Mitchell who experienced some success from the get go with the Jazz because he filled an immediate need on that team for scoring when Gorden Hayward left. He's had some struggles but generally has had positive value around the league, and is helping them win at a terrific rate this season.

The Cavs need to be more like that, and figure out how to play to our player's strengths rather than constantly exposing their weaknesses.


We haven't had top picks the past three years, and that's part of the problem. We picked No.8, No. 5, and No. 5.

After LBJ and Kyrie left, I'm sure they would've preferred not sucking but that really wasn't in the cards. They extended Love with the hopes of not sucking quite so bad, and that was a pretty big mistake.

Frankly, aside from the second half of this season, in which we're going to suck one way or another, I'm a big fan of not sucking.

But Im not seeing a lot of immediate alternatives. We're starting Okoro, and the guys behind him, Cedi and Windler, aren't clearly better. We have one PG on the entire roster. Our backup center wants out. I mean if you start Nance at 3 and Wade at the 4, that may help offensively, but you can't even play Prince as a backup at 4 because he's hurt. Love isn't reliably available.

We can probably make some lateral trades that provide minimal immediate help, and push our win total up 5 meaingless games. But that will only worsen our draft position.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#25 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:54 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:You don't need generational talent, but you do need top end talent. I'd rather try to build around a guy like Morant or Doncic, then build a team around Sexton. You need a cornerstone and right now we don't have one. Worrying about that player leaving seven or eight years after he's drafted is one of those good problems to have.


We've had top picks in the past 3 years, what has sucking done for the franchise?

I look at Donovan Mitchell who experienced some success from the get go with the Jazz because he filled an immediate need on that team for scoring when Gorden Hayward left. He's had some struggles but generally has had positive value around the league, and is helping them win at a terrific rate this season.

The Cavs need to be more like that, and figure out how to play to our player's strengths rather than constantly exposing their weaknesses.


We haven't had top picks the past three years, and that's part of the problem. We picked No.8, No. 5, and No. 5.

After LBJ and Kyrie left, I'm sure they would've preferred not sucking but that really wasn't in the cards. They extended Love with the hopes of not sucking quite so bad, and that was a pretty big mistake.

Frankly, aside from the second half of this season, in which we're going to suck one way or another, I'm a big fan not sucking.

But Im not seeing a lot of immediate alternatives. We're starting Okoro, and the guys behind him, Cedi and Windler, aren't clearly better. We have one PG on the entire roster. Our backup center wants out. I mean if you start Nance at 3 and Wade at the 4, that may help offensively, but you can't even play Prince as a backup at 4 because he's hurt. Love isn't reliably available.

We can probably make some lateral trades that provide minimal immediate help, and push our win total up 5 meaingless games. But that will only worsen our draft position.


The Sexton pick could have been Doncic if LeBron could have been bothered to help us beat the Nets, the other two picks also could have been much higher except the top-4 is determined by ping pong balls. That's still a lot more than other teams have used to build a contender with.

In other words, don't leave your future to chance if you can avoid it.

As far as getting help, I'm fine with anything meant to fill in a hole and help our young players develop.

If we're stuck with what we have now (and can't rely on Love)?

I might try Wade and Windler in the starting lineup, with Nance and Okoro coming off the bench. At least until Nance is playing like he was before the injury and/or Wade/Windler aren't getting the job done. I'd like to see some more from our fringe players and see if any of them can handle a more consistent role in the rotation beyond garbage time.

Maybe turn the bench unit in to an all defense-hustle lineup.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#26 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:47 am

We have the worst point differential in the NBA and only the fifth worst record. We're like a couple games from going all the way to the 8th worst record.

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#27 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:20 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
We've had top picks in the past 3 years, what has sucking done for the franchise?

I look at Donovan Mitchell who experienced some success from the get go with the Jazz because he filled an immediate need on that team for scoring when Gorden Hayward left. He's had some struggles but generally has had positive value around the league, and is helping them win at a terrific rate this season.

The Cavs need to be more like that, and figure out how to play to our player's strengths rather than constantly exposing their weaknesses.


We haven't had top picks the past three years, and that's part of the problem. We picked No.8, No. 5, and No. 5.

After LBJ and Kyrie left, I'm sure they would've preferred not sucking but that really wasn't in the cards. They extended Love with the hopes of not sucking quite so bad, and that was a pretty big mistake.

Frankly, aside from the second half of this season, in which we're going to suck one way or another, I'm a big fan not sucking.

But Im not seeing a lot of immediate alternatives. We're starting Okoro, and the guys behind him, Cedi and Windler, aren't clearly better. We have one PG on the entire roster. Our backup center wants out. I mean if you start Nance at 3 and Wade at the 4, that may help offensively, but you can't even play Prince as a backup at 4 because he's hurt. Love isn't reliably available.

We can probably make some lateral trades that provide minimal immediate help, and push our win total up 5 meaingless games. But that will only worsen our draft position.


The Sexton pick could have been Doncic if LeBron could have been bothered to help us beat the Nets, the other two picks also could have been much higher except the top-4 is determined by ping pong balls. That's still a lot more than other teams have used to build a contender with.

In other words, don't leave your future to chance if you can avoid it.

As far as getting help, I'm fine with anything meant to fill in a hole and help our young players develop.

If we're stuck with what we have now (and can't rely on Love)?

I might try Wade and Windler in the starting lineup, with Nance and Okoro coming off the bench. At least until Nance is playing like he was before the injury and/or Wade/Windler aren't getting the job done. I'd like to see some more from our fringe players and see if any of them can handle a more consistent role in the rotation beyond garbage time.

Maybe turn the bench unit in to an all defense-hustle lineup.
I'm trying to imagine a second unit of Cook, Okoro, Cedi, Nance and McGee scoring more than 5 points a game, and I can't get there. I'm actually laughing tbh. Maybe if they played a lot of minutes with Sexton and just ran all the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#28 » by JonFromVA » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:08 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
We haven't had top picks the past three years, and that's part of the problem. We picked No.8, No. 5, and No. 5.

After LBJ and Kyrie left, I'm sure they would've preferred not sucking but that really wasn't in the cards. They extended Love with the hopes of not sucking quite so bad, and that was a pretty big mistake.

Frankly, aside from the second half of this season, in which we're going to suck one way or another, I'm a big fan not sucking.

But Im not seeing a lot of immediate alternatives. We're starting Okoro, and the guys behind him, Cedi and Windler, aren't clearly better. We have one PG on the entire roster. Our backup center wants out. I mean if you start Nance at 3 and Wade at the 4, that may help offensively, but you can't even play Prince as a backup at 4 because he's hurt. Love isn't reliably available.

We can probably make some lateral trades that provide minimal immediate help, and push our win total up 5 meaingless games. But that will only worsen our draft position.


The Sexton pick could have been Doncic if LeBron could have been bothered to help us beat the Nets, the other two picks also could have been much higher except the top-4 is determined by ping pong balls. That's still a lot more than other teams have used to build a contender with.

In other words, don't leave your future to chance if you can avoid it.

As far as getting help, I'm fine with anything meant to fill in a hole and help our young players develop.

If we're stuck with what we have now (and can't rely on Love)?

I might try Wade and Windler in the starting lineup, with Nance and Okoro coming off the bench. At least until Nance is playing like he was before the injury and/or Wade/Windler aren't getting the job done. I'd like to see some more from our fringe players and see if any of them can handle a more consistent role in the rotation beyond garbage time.

Maybe turn the bench unit in to an all defense-hustle lineup.
I'm trying to imagine a second unit of Cook, Okoro, Cedi, Nance and McGee scoring more than 5 points a game, and I can't get there. I'm actually laughing tbh. Maybe if they played a lot of minutes with Sexton and just ran all the time.


At this point, I'd just like to see us settle on a steady starting-5 (with healthy players) that doesn't end up clogging up the paint. We can't solve all our problems at once, but we could at least try to give our guards some floor spacing to operate and some shooters who can reliably bury an open shot.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#29 » by Stillwater » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:09 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
We haven't had top picks the past three years, and that's part of the problem. We picked No.8, No. 5, and No. 5.

After LBJ and Kyrie left, I'm sure they would've preferred not sucking but that really wasn't in the cards. They extended Love with the hopes of not sucking quite so bad, and that was a pretty big mistake.

Frankly, aside from the second half of this season, in which we're going to suck one way or another, I'm a big fan not sucking.

But Im not seeing a lot of immediate alternatives. We're starting Okoro, and the guys behind him, Cedi and Windler, aren't clearly better. We have one PG on the entire roster. Our backup center wants out. I mean if you start Nance at 3 and Wade at the 4, that may help offensively, but you can't even play Prince as a backup at 4 because he's hurt. Love isn't reliably available.

We can probably make some lateral trades that provide minimal immediate help, and push our win total up 5 meaingless games. But that will only worsen our draft position.


The Sexton pick could have been Doncic if LeBron could have been bothered to help us beat the Nets, the other two picks also could have been much higher except the top-4 is determined by ping pong balls. That's still a lot more than other teams have used to build a contender with.

In other words, don't leave your future to chance if you can avoid it.

As far as getting help, I'm fine with anything meant to fill in a hole and help our young players develop.

If we're stuck with what we have now (and can't rely on Love)?

I might try Wade and Windler in the starting lineup, with Nance and Okoro coming off the bench. At least until Nance is playing like he was before the injury and/or Wade/Windler aren't getting the job done. I'd like to see some more from our fringe players and see if any of them can handle a more consistent role in the rotation beyond garbage time.

Maybe turn the bench unit in to an all defense-hustle lineup.
I'm trying to imagine a second unit of Cook, Okoro, Cedi, Nance and McGee scoring more than 5 points a game, and I can't get there. I'm actually laughing tbh. Maybe if they played a lot of minutes with Sexton and just ran all the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

There is such a thing as not being versatile.they have offensive versatility but not so much defensively. The nyk roster is playing defense like this roster was early in the season and being a lot more competitive but the are just as far away as the cavs so at this point the only people not wanting to tank are the young core. Eventually they will walk maybe Sexton already is losing interest.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#30 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:18 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
The Sexton pick could have been Doncic if LeBron could have been bothered to help us beat the Nets, the other two picks also could have been much higher except the top-4 is determined by ping pong balls. That's still a lot more than other teams have used to build a contender with.

In other words, don't leave your future to chance if you can avoid it.

As far as getting help, I'm fine with anything meant to fill in a hole and help our young players develop.

If we're stuck with what we have now (and can't rely on Love)?

I might try Wade and Windler in the starting lineup, with Nance and Okoro coming off the bench. At least until Nance is playing like he was before the injury and/or Wade/Windler aren't getting the job done. I'd like to see some more from our fringe players and see if any of them can handle a more consistent role in the rotation beyond garbage time.

Maybe turn the bench unit in to an all defense-hustle lineup.
I'm trying to imagine a second unit of Cook, Okoro, Cedi, Nance and McGee scoring more than 5 points a game, and I can't get there. I'm actually laughing tbh. Maybe if they played a lot of minutes with Sexton and just ran all the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

There is such a thing as not being versatile.they have offensive versatility but not so much defensively. The nyk roster is playing defense like this roster was early in the season and being a lot more competitive but the are just as far away as the cavs so at this point the only people not wanting to tank are the young core. Eventually they will walk maybe Sexton already is losing interest.


I hadn't realized the young guys were having MVP seasons while the vets were dragging the team down.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#31 » by JonFromVA » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:46 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
The Sexton pick could have been Doncic if LeBron could have been bothered to help us beat the Nets, the other two picks also could have been much higher except the top-4 is determined by ping pong balls. That's still a lot more than other teams have used to build a contender with.

In other words, don't leave your future to chance if you can avoid it.

As far as getting help, I'm fine with anything meant to fill in a hole and help our young players develop.

If we're stuck with what we have now (and can't rely on Love)?

I might try Wade and Windler in the starting lineup, with Nance and Okoro coming off the bench. At least until Nance is playing like he was before the injury and/or Wade/Windler aren't getting the job done. I'd like to see some more from our fringe players and see if any of them can handle a more consistent role in the rotation beyond garbage time.

Maybe turn the bench unit in to an all defense-hustle lineup.
I'm trying to imagine a second unit of Cook, Okoro, Cedi, Nance and McGee scoring more than 5 points a game, and I can't get there. I'm actually laughing tbh. Maybe if they played a lot of minutes with Sexton and just ran all the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

There is such a thing as not being versatile.they have offensive versatility but not so much defensively. The nyk roster is playing defense like this roster was early in the season and being a lot more competitive but the are just as far away as the cavs so at this point the only people not wanting to tank are the young core. Eventually they will walk maybe Sexton already is losing interest.


Speaking of ... Knicks fans were all fired up about Immanuel Quickley and felt like Payton was their impediment to winning. Thibs being Thibs, though, didn't promote the rookie PG to the starting line-up as fans were hoping, instead he brought in Derrick Rose.

With Rose currently out and Payton continuing to struggle, looks like he finally let Quickley start, but that's the kind of thing I'd rather avoid. I'm glad were finding lots of playtime for our young players, but it does come with a cost.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#32 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:43 pm

With shooting splits of 30.8/26.0 in the last 9 games, Cedi is the clear choice for tank commander. Everyone clear out, General Osman is taking the wheel.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#33 » by Stillwater » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:39 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:With shooting splits of 30.8/26.0 in the last 9 games, Cedi is the clear choice for tank commander. Everyone clear out, General Osman is taking the wheel.

his shooting is terrible but he is dropping dimes at a decent clip. funny how that works when the players who cant shoot pass to the ones that can their dime rate goes up
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

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Re: Tank watch 

Post#34 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:33 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:With shooting splits of 30.8/26.0 in the last 9 games, Cedi is the clear choice for tank commander. Everyone clear out, General Osman is taking the wheel.

his shooting is terrible but he is dropping dimes at a decent clip. funny how that works when the players who cant shoot pass to the ones that can their dime rate goes up


Cedi is an all-round player, but it's not at all clear he should be trying to unleash it outside of playing for the Turkish national team.

In the NBA, he seems at his best when he's not trying to do too much.

He's going to be 26 soon, he's had 4 years in the league plus Euroleague. It's probably not too soon to start drawing some conclusions about what Cedi is and is not.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#35 » by jbk1234 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:44 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:With shooting splits of 30.8/26.0 in the last 9 games, Cedi is the clear choice for tank commander. Everyone clear out, General Osman is taking the wheel.

his shooting is terrible but he is dropping dimes at a decent clip. funny how that works when the players who cant shoot pass to the ones that can their dime rate goes up


Cedi is an all-round player, but it's not at all clear he should be trying to unleash it outside of playing for the Turkish national team.

In the NBA, he seems at his best when he's not trying to do too much.

He's going to be 26 soon, he's had 4 years in the league plus Euroleague. It's probably not too soon to start drawing some conclusions about what Cedi is and is not.


Yeah, he's really streaky from the outside too. He's even more streaky than Prince who is a streaky shooter. You can have one of those guys when you're a decent team, and once they get going, they put you over the top, e.g., JR. But, when you have multiple guys who are feast or famine from behind the arc, the valleys are too low and your offense breaks down.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#36 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:55 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:his shooting is terrible but he is dropping dimes at a decent clip. funny how that works when the players who cant shoot pass to the ones that can their dime rate goes up


Cedi is an all-round player, but it's not at all clear he should be trying to unleash it outside of playing for the Turkish national team.

In the NBA, he seems at his best when he's not trying to do too much.

He's going to be 26 soon, he's had 4 years in the league plus Euroleague. It's probably not too soon to start drawing some conclusions about what Cedi is and is not.


Yeah, he's really streaky from the outside too. He's even more streaky than Prince who is a streaky shooter. You can have one of those guys when you're a decent team, and once they get going, they put you over the top, e.g., JR. But, when you have multiple guys who are feast or famine from behind the arc, the valleys are too low and your offense breaks down.


Cedi the Downtown Bomber is something new, though, and may be a side effect of JBB asking players to fire up more 3pters, having his minutes reduced when he was moved to the bench, and feeling like he needs to do more especially with the bench unit.

In other words, I expect he's capable of settling back in to a useful role if surrounded by better players. Hopefully he's not scaring a contender away from trading for him, but that's just another reason Windler may look better to other team's. He's not forcing things.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#37 » by jbk1234 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:02 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Cedi is an all-round player, but it's not at all clear he should be trying to unleash it outside of playing for the Turkish national team.

In the NBA, he seems at his best when he's not trying to do too much.

He's going to be 26 soon, he's had 4 years in the league plus Euroleague. It's probably not too soon to start drawing some conclusions about what Cedi is and is not.


Yeah, he's really streaky from the outside too. He's even more streaky than Prince who is a streaky shooter. You can have one of those guys when you're a decent team, and once they get going, they put you over the top, e.g., JR. But, when you have multiple guys who are feast or famine from behind the arc, the valleys are too low and your offense breaks down.


Cedi the Downtown Bomber is something new, though, and may be a side effect of JBB asking players to fire up more 3pters, having his minutes reduced when he was moved to the bench, and feeling like he needs to do more especially with the bench unit.

In other words, I expect he's capable of settling back in to a useful role if surrounded by better players. Hopefully he's not scaring a contender away from trading for him, but that's just another reason Windler may look better to other team's. He's not forcing things.


It does seem like guys are protecting their 3 point percentage at times, so I get telling guys who have an open look to take it, but Cedi takes all kinds of ill-advised off balance shots that are just a bad idea and really, he should be the fourth or fifth option. Also, I'm all for Garland firing away but not from so deep that he's doing that shot put thing from his chest. Dribble the ball up a couple feet and shoot. I don't need the Curry or Dame range at the expense of efficiency.

Guys like Wade, Windler, and ever Sexton need to be taking more three point shots. Maybe not a contested three early in the shot clock, but if you get an open look after the ball has moved around, just take it.

Oh, and if our bigs don't get the ball up before the double or triple team arrives, it's perfectly fine to pass it back out to the guy unguarded at the three point line.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#38 » by jbk1234 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:41 am

Normally, I wouldn't like the W, but against the Celtics, on St. Patrick's Day, it's hard to turn down.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#39 » by JonFromVA » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:56 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Normally, I wouldn't like the W, but against the Celtics, on St. Patrick's Day, it's hard to turn down.


I just can't see it that way.

Winning is always fun (beating the Celtics is extra-fun)... that a loss may help us get a better lottery pick is more of a consolation.
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Re: Tank watch 

Post#40 » by jbk1234 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:58 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Normally, I wouldn't like the W, but against the Celtics, on St. Patrick's Day, it's hard to turn down.


I just can't see it that way.

Winning is always fun (beating the Celtics is extra-fun)... that a loss may help us get a better lottery pick is more of a consolation.
I think we dropped out of the bottom 5 after that W. I think we'll be okay if we stay in the bottom 10.

My concern is our point differential suggests we're actually worse than our record and place in the strandings. I don't want to best bad teams in the second half the season and convince ourselves we're fixed.

The Celtics were clearly trying to win that game and they're a decent team though so I'll take it.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

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