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NCAA Tourney

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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#61 » by yoyoboy » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:55 am

Stillwater wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Yeah, he's a good complimentary piece but not what you want out of a top 3 pick. Honestly, Mobley is the only one of the entire class who looks special to me.

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Cunningham shouldn't be a PG in the NBA imo. He doesn't have driving ability and while he's a really good passer for a forward, I don't think he's a special passer overall.

Tbh Cade is a pretty ideal fit next to Sexton and Garland. A tall playmaking forward who can shoot the hell out of the ball is what we need, with emphasis on the playmaking given Sexton's and Garland's struggles there.

At the same time I'm not sure Garland or even Sexton for that matter is good enough to take "fit" into consideration rather than just going with the BPA.

Just curious if you two are basing your opinion just on these couple games or all season?

All season. Has Cade really looked like a guy who can be a primary dribble threat in the NBA to you? With the lack of a first step and a fairly high dribble, I'm not seeing it. And again, I'm not at all convinced he's close to a Simmons/Doncic/LeBron passer who can run an offense as a big playmaker. Regardless of teammate quality, having that poor of an ast/to ratio and then going on to be a great primary playmaker in the NBA is basically unheard of.
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#62 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:03 am

yoyoboy wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:Cunningham shouldn't be a PG in the NBA imo. He doesn't have driving ability and while he's a really good passer for a forward, I don't think he's a special passer overall.

Tbh Cade is a pretty ideal fit next to Sexton and Garland. A tall playmaking forward who can shoot the hell out of the ball is what we need, with emphasis on the playmaking given Sexton's and Garland's struggles there.

At the same time I'm not sure Garland or even Sexton for that matter is good enough to take "fit" into consideration rather than just going with the BPA.

Just curious if you two are basing your opinion just on these couple games or all season?

All season. Has Cade really looked like a guy who can be a primary dribble threat in the NBA to you? With the lack of a first step and a fairly high dribble, I'm not seeing it. And again, I'm not at all convinced he's close to a Simmons/Doncic/LeBron passer who can run an offense as a big playmaker. Regardless of teammate quality, having that poor of an ast/to ratio and then going on to be a great primary playmaker in the NBA is basically unheard of.

No I agree with that thats my biggest complaint is the handles and first step are not impressive but he has impressive bbiq versatile enough so he can be used 1-4 with his shooting ability and making the right pass in rhythm which this team is void of usually.
There is little chance this org drafts him to play the pg position given who is here already if they draft him at all.
I want Kaminga myself hes just as good of a playmaker the far better athlete ball handler slasher and just needs to improve his shot from deep
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#63 » by jbk1234 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:06 am

yoyoboy wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:Cade is struggling once again.
Yeah, he's a good complimentary piece but not what you want out of a top 3 pick. Honestly, Mobley is the only one of the entire class who looks special to me.

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Cunningham shouldn't be a PG in the NBA imo. He doesn't have driving ability and while he's a really good passer for a forward, I don't think he's a special passer overall.

Tbh Cade is a pretty ideal fit next to Sexton and Garland. A tall playmaking forward who can shoot the hell out of the ball is what we need, with emphasis on the playmaking given Sexton's and Garland's struggles there.

At the same time I'm not sure Garland or even Sexton for that matter is good enough to take "fit" into consideration rather than just going with the BPA.
Well if there was a 6'6" Michael Jordan type, I'd draft him and not worry about fit. But right now, Sexton would be a senior and Garland would be a junior playing in this tournament and I'm not seeing any guard who's better than either, not even if I project out a couple years. If it's close, I'm going with a tall SF or PF.

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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#64 » by jbk1234 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:07 am

Stillwater wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Just curious if you two are basing your opinion just on these couple games or all season?

All season. Has Cade really looked like a guy who can be a primary dribble threat in the NBA to you? With the lack of a first step and a fairly high dribble, I'm not seeing it. And again, I'm not at all convinced he's close to a Simmons/Doncic/LeBron passer who can run an offense as a big playmaker. Regardless of teammate quality, having that poor of an ast/to ratio and then going on to be a great primary playmaker in the NBA is basically unheard of.

No I agree with that thats my biggest complaint is the handles and first step are not impressive but he has impressive bbiq versatile enough so he can be used 1-4 with his shooting ability and making the right pass in rhythm which this team is void of usually.
There is little chance this org drafts him to play the pg position given who is here already if they draft him at all.
I want Kaminga myself hes just as good of a playmaker the far better athlete ball handler slasher and just needs to improve his shot from deep
If we go that route, I'm going Green. Don't draft another high usage guy. Especially one who struggles to shoot from range.

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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#65 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:10 am

My big board regardless of roster make up is Kuminga,Mobley,Cunningham,Green,Suggs,KJones,I.Todd,Barnes,and probably put Mathurin or Hyland in the next tier over the common names there
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#66 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:13 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:All season. Has Cade really looked like a guy who can be a primary dribble threat in the NBA to you? With the lack of a first step and a fairly high dribble, I'm not seeing it. And again, I'm not at all convinced he's close to a Simmons/Doncic/LeBron passer who can run an offense as a big playmaker. Regardless of teammate quality, having that poor of an ast/to ratio and then going on to be a great primary playmaker in the NBA is basically unheard of.

No I agree with that thats my biggest complaint is the handles and first step are not impressive but he has impressive bbiq versatile enough so he can be used 1-4 with his shooting ability and making the right pass in rhythm which this team is void of usually.
There is little chance this org drafts him to play the pg position given who is here already if they draft him at all.
I want Kaminga myself hes just as good of a playmaker the far better athlete ball handler slasher and just needs to improve his shot from deep
If we go that route, I'm going Green. Don't draft another high usage guy. Especially one who struggles to shoot from range.

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Kuminga imo is so damn athletic combined with his playmaking defensive ability and bbiq he will be the mad scientist combo of Jalen Brown and Kawhi Leonard after a couple seasons putting up 1000's of shots a day
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#67 » by jbk1234 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:23 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:No I agree with that thats my biggest complaint is the handles and first step are not impressive but he has impressive bbiq versatile enough so he can be used 1-4 with his shooting ability and making the right pass in rhythm which this team is void of usually.
There is little chance this org drafts him to play the pg position given who is here already if they draft him at all.
I want Kaminga myself hes just as good of a playmaker the far better athlete ball handler slasher and just needs to improve his shot from deep
If we go that route, I'm going Green. Don't draft another high usage guy. Especially one who struggles to shoot from range.

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Kuminga imo is so damn athletic combined with his playmaking defensive ability and bbiq he will be the mad scientist combo of Jalen Brown and Kawhi Leonard after a couple seasons putting up 1000's of shots a day
Or he'll be the next Lance Stephenson.

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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#68 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:30 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:If we go that route, I'm going Green. Don't draft another high usage guy. Especially one who struggles to shoot from range.

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Kuminga imo is so damn athletic combined with his playmaking defensive ability and bbiq he will be the mad scientist combo of Jalen Brown and Kawhi Leonard after a couple seasons putting up 1000's of shots a day
Or he'll be the next Lance Stephenson.

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I guess you havent seen him? He is way better than that archetype prospect. Not being able to shoot is one thing which isnt the case with him at all, his shot is pretty as hell... but being a primary slasher and rarely shooting from deep when it is because you can finish in traffic against anyone every time you get the ball no matter how much they clog the lanes isnt a reason not to draft him. I mean if there is a better option like one with just as much skill and upside but is farther along like Green I guess could be despite Green not being the sized forward this team needs... than you take Kuminga or Mobley over Green imo they are all high upside though so any one is fine by me but we both know the odds we pick any of them are slim. We will probably end up with somebody like Matthew Hurt
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#69 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:26 pm

yoyoboy wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:Cunningham shouldn't be a PG in the NBA imo. He doesn't have driving ability and while he's a really good passer for a forward, I don't think he's a special passer overall.

Tbh Cade is a pretty ideal fit next to Sexton and Garland. A tall playmaking forward who can shoot the hell out of the ball is what we need, with emphasis on the playmaking given Sexton's and Garland's struggles there.

At the same time I'm not sure Garland or even Sexton for that matter is good enough to take "fit" into consideration rather than just going with the BPA.

Just curious if you two are basing your opinion just on these couple games or all season?

All season. Has Cade really looked like a guy who can be a primary dribble threat in the NBA to you? With the lack of a first step and a fairly high dribble, I'm not seeing it. And again, I'm not at all convinced he's close to a Simmons/Doncic/LeBron passer who can run an offense as a big playmaker. Regardless of teammate quality, having that poor of an ast/to ratio and then going on to be a great primary playmaker in the NBA is basically unheard of.


Out of the guys you picked only Simmons actually played in the NCAA and while his assists and turnovers were better than Cunningham, if you look at some of the other top small forwards in their first year of college, I don't think they're going to blow you away with their numbers in those areas.

Which doesn't mean Cade will become the next Grant Hill as NBADraft.net thinks, but it won't be because of his stats as a college freshman (Hill's, btw, stunk).

If he's more the next Jayson Tatum or Paul Pierce then the next Simmons, that's hardly a bad outcome and if we do keep Sexland together would be my preference.
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#70 » by yoyoboy » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:15 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Just curious if you two are basing your opinion just on these couple games or all season?

All season. Has Cade really looked like a guy who can be a primary dribble threat in the NBA to you? With the lack of a first step and a fairly high dribble, I'm not seeing it. And again, I'm not at all convinced he's close to a Simmons/Doncic/LeBron passer who can run an offense as a big playmaker. Regardless of teammate quality, having that poor of an ast/to ratio and then going on to be a great primary playmaker in the NBA is basically unheard of.


Out of the guys you picked only Simmons actually played in the NCAA and while his assists and turnovers were better than Cunningham, if you look at some of the other top small forwards in their first year of college, I don't think they're going to blow you away with their numbers in those areas.

Which doesn't mean Cade will become the next Grant Hill as NBADraft.net thinks, but it won't be because of his stats as a college freshman (Hill's, btw, stunk).

If he's more the next Jayson Tatum or Paul Pierce then the next Simmons, that's hardly a bad outcome and if we do keep Sexland together would be my preference.

A 1.41 ast/to ratio in the case of Simmons is significantly better than Cade’s 0.88 ast/to ratio. Not to mention from the eye test, Ben showed much more advanced passing ability than Cade has in college.

And yes, if you compare Cade to small forwards I agree. Because that’s what Cade will ultimately be and that’s where I disagree with so many people. He’s expected by most to be a huge PG at the next level and that’s just not his natural fit in the league. He can’t beat defenders off the dribble easily and his vision is fairly good but his passing and decision making aren’t good enough to warrant being a lead playmaker in the NBA. I like him in more of a Tatum role because he can really shoot the hall out of the ball and I think a team would be doing him a disservice by trying to shoehorn him into the Luka/LeBrob/Simmons role.
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#71 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:37 pm

yoyoboy wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:All season. Has Cade really looked like a guy who can be a primary dribble threat in the NBA to you? With the lack of a first step and a fairly high dribble, I'm not seeing it. And again, I'm not at all convinced he's close to a Simmons/Doncic/LeBron passer who can run an offense as a big playmaker. Regardless of teammate quality, having that poor of an ast/to ratio and then going on to be a great primary playmaker in the NBA is basically unheard of.


Out of the guys you picked only Simmons actually played in the NCAA and while his assists and turnovers were better than Cunningham, if you look at some of the other top small forwards in their first year of college, I don't think they're going to blow you away with their numbers in those areas.

Which doesn't mean Cade will become the next Grant Hill as NBADraft.net thinks, but it won't be because of his stats as a college freshman (Hill's, btw, stunk).

If he's more the next Jayson Tatum or Paul Pierce then the next Simmons, that's hardly a bad outcome and if we do keep Sexland together would be my preference.

A 1.41 ast/to ratio in the case of Simmons is significantly better than Cade’s 0.88 ast/to ratio. Not to mention from the eye test, Ben showed much more advanced passing ability than Cade has in college.

And yes, if you compare Cade to small forwards I agree. Because that’s what Cade will ultimately be and that’s where I disagree with so many people. He’s expected by most to be a huge PG at the next level and that’s just not his natural fit in the league. He can’t beat defenders off the dribble easily and his vision is fairly good but his passing and decision making aren’t good enough to warrant being a lead playmaker in the NBA. I like him in more of a Tatum role because he can really shoot the hall out of the ball and I think a team would be doing him a disservice by trying to shoehorn him into the Luka/LeBrob/Simmons role.

I have never heard that take from too many so I am not sure why that is what you are hearing a lot but I could see some wanting him to be that by committee bringing the ball up often but I mean it's obvious he isnt the main ball handler on the team he was on now in college either anderson was... I think he actually is most likely to settle into a secondary playmaking role at the 2 or 3 or maybe even the 4 if surrounded by elite shooters with outside shooting as a strength for him as well and lack of athleticism as a huge weakness but he has good awareness for ball movement and foot movement to get to where he needs to be against some pros etc. His handles are not that bad for a 6'8" forward But at the end of the day he is not the type of athlete that can defend at a high level or rise up from 3' away and just dunk on somebody Like Kuminga Mobley etc and should not be the highest ranked prospect in this draft because that level of athleticism has to exist to become a superstar in the nba sans being a ridiculously great shooter on the move (which some thought he could be like Suggs is)and off the dribble which although really solid cant even create looks for himself consistently enough to be confident it would transfer at the 3.
When its all said and done I like his upside hes a smart player but he could fall into a trap where his ceiling is capped quickly against pro defenses
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#72 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:00 pm

yoyoboy wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:All season. Has Cade really looked like a guy who can be a primary dribble threat in the NBA to you? With the lack of a first step and a fairly high dribble, I'm not seeing it. And again, I'm not at all convinced he's close to a Simmons/Doncic/LeBron passer who can run an offense as a big playmaker. Regardless of teammate quality, having that poor of an ast/to ratio and then going on to be a great primary playmaker in the NBA is basically unheard of.


Out of the guys you picked only Simmons actually played in the NCAA and while his assists and turnovers were better than Cunningham, if you look at some of the other top small forwards in their first year of college, I don't think they're going to blow you away with their numbers in those areas.

Which doesn't mean Cade will become the next Grant Hill as NBADraft.net thinks, but it won't be because of his stats as a college freshman (Hill's, btw, stunk).

If he's more the next Jayson Tatum or Paul Pierce then the next Simmons, that's hardly a bad outcome and if we do keep Sexland together would be my preference.

A 1.41 ast/to ratio in the case of Simmons is significantly better than Cade’s 0.88 ast/to ratio. Not to mention from the eye test, Ben showed much more advanced passing ability than Cade has in college.

And yes, if you compare Cade to small forwards I agree. Because that’s what Cade will ultimately be and that’s where I disagree with so many people. He’s expected by most to be a huge PG at the next level and that’s just not his natural fit in the league. He can’t beat defenders off the dribble easily and his vision is fairly good but his passing and decision making aren’t good enough to warrant being a lead playmaker in the NBA. I like him in more of a Tatum role because he can really shoot the hall out of the ball and I think a team would be doing him a disservice by trying to shoehorn him into the Luka/LeBrob/Simmons role.


Makes sense, but if his ceiling is becoming one of the league's "unicorns" and his downside is he becomes a multi-tool All-Star caliber small forward ... that's a fantastic prospect we can only hope we get so lucky to draft.
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#73 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:29 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Out of the guys you picked only Simmons actually played in the NCAA and while his assists and turnovers were better than Cunningham, if you look at some of the other top small forwards in their first year of college, I don't think they're going to blow you away with their numbers in those areas.

Which doesn't mean Cade will become the next Grant Hill as NBADraft.net thinks, but it won't be because of his stats as a college freshman (Hill's, btw, stunk).

If he's more the next Jayson Tatum or Paul Pierce then the next Simmons, that's hardly a bad outcome and if we do keep Sexland together would be my preference.

A 1.41 ast/to ratio in the case of Simmons is significantly better than Cade’s 0.88 ast/to ratio. Not to mention from the eye test, Ben showed much more advanced passing ability than Cade has in college.

And yes, if you compare Cade to small forwards I agree. Because that’s what Cade will ultimately be and that’s where I disagree with so many people. He’s expected by most to be a huge PG at the next level and that’s just not his natural fit in the league. He can’t beat defenders off the dribble easily and his vision is fairly good but his passing and decision making aren’t good enough to warrant being a lead playmaker in the NBA. I like him in more of a Tatum role because he can really shoot the hall out of the ball and I think a team would be doing him a disservice by trying to shoehorn him into the Luka/LeBrob/Simmons role.


Makes sense, but if his ceiling is becoming one of the league's "unicorns" and his downside is he becomes a multi-tool All-Star caliber small forward ... that's a fantastic prospect we can only hope we get so lucky to draft.

He is a versatile position player based on skills but in reality his lack of explosiveness was the biggest take away in the past few games where had he possessed it he could have used those tools to dominate and he could not because it just aint there.
I dont think his floor is by any means multi tool all star if anything its closer to post injury shawn livingston with an outside shot
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#74 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:46 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:A 1.41 ast/to ratio in the case of Simmons is significantly better than Cade’s 0.88 ast/to ratio. Not to mention from the eye test, Ben showed much more advanced passing ability than Cade has in college.

And yes, if you compare Cade to small forwards I agree. Because that’s what Cade will ultimately be and that’s where I disagree with so many people. He’s expected by most to be a huge PG at the next level and that’s just not his natural fit in the league. He can’t beat defenders off the dribble easily and his vision is fairly good but his passing and decision making aren’t good enough to warrant being a lead playmaker in the NBA. I like him in more of a Tatum role because he can really shoot the hall out of the ball and I think a team would be doing him a disservice by trying to shoehorn him into the Luka/LeBrob/Simmons role.


Makes sense, but if his ceiling is becoming one of the league's "unicorns" and his downside is he becomes a multi-tool All-Star caliber small forward ... that's a fantastic prospect we can only hope we get so lucky to draft.

He is a versatile position player based on skills but in reality his lack of explosiveness was the biggest take away in the past few games where had he possessed it he could have used those tools to dominate and he could not because it just aint there.
I dont think his floor is by any means multi tool all star if anything its closer to post injury shawn livingston with an outside shot


It's hard for a freshman to carry a team in the tourney regardless of their athletic level. Heck, we've even seen super one and done team's come up short like Zion/Bennett/Reddish. But scoring 20ppg as a freshman is a pretty good sign give or take the Michael Beasley's.
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#75 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:43 pm

If you havent seen much of scot barnes and fla state you might want to catch the game today, I have Colorado heading to the elite 8 I think they are the sleeper to come out of the East even though Bama and Mich have the best odds. Mckinley Wright is the best pg in the tournament imo
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#76 » by Stillwater » Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:57 am

leave it to Leonard Hamilton to ruin my bracket
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#77 » by Stillwater » Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:58 am

Mobley taking it to Kansas
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#78 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:22 am

Stillwater wrote:leave it to Leonard Hamilton to ruin my bracket
This is why you have to fill out more than one bracket. They're not like the Cavs. You're not stuck with just one team.

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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#79 » by Stillwater » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:26 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:leave it to Leonard Hamilton to ruin my bracket
This is why you have to fill out more than one bracket. They're not like the Cavs. You're not stuck with just one team.

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I did do some secondary ones for fun but I had Colorado beating Michigan in the sweet 16 on my main bracket
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Re: NCAA Tourney 

Post#80 » by Stillwater » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:31 am

I am really starting to like Isaiah Mobley as a lottery pick as well... has improved a ton
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