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Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM

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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#81 » by JonFromVA » Fri Apr 9, 2021 3:13 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
We need to talk about what really matters. How many years is dumping KPJ for nothing going to set this Cavs team back? 3 years? 5 years?

Kid just had 20/9/8 the other night and game winning block on defense last night.

I know I know I know its over and he threw soup and had some weed on him. I know. It is just HORRIBLE that he is not on this team as apart of this core.

Can you imagine if KPJ and Drummond were still on this team and Kevin Love was healthy for the entire year? GRRRR

If the Cavs just did nothing, simply nothing with their roster the entire year we would have a helluva team right now. All they had to do was nothing. Make zero moves. Let the roster be, and the Cavs would most likely be in a playoff spot right now with a bright bright future.


I'd much rather have Allen than Drummond in the long run. Hartenstein looks like a real steal. Those are at least two moves I'm happy the Cavs made. I'm really sick of talking about KPJ as the Cavs gave that young man plenty of chances and his issues were far more serious than his apologists want to admit. That said, maybe everyone should sit back and wait to see how successful the Rockets are building around him as the main guy. He's had some good games. So have Sexton and Garland. It takes a lot more than that to become the main guy on a winning team.

The players get a say in how things go down. You want to blame the Cavs for it, have at it, but understand the rest of us are going to need to see Drummond and KPJ do a lot more than just have a few good games.


I would prefer Drummond not get all upset and realize having a frontcourt of Nance, Love, Allen and Drummond for the next few years would have been lethal. Especially with all of the young guard talent to pair with them.


Sure that sounds good, but Andre still has it in his head that he's a max contract player. Once we acquired Allen, it was clear he wasn't getting $28M+ from us and his focused change to trying to prove he was worth it to some other team by filling up the box score at the expense of team play.

He just doesn't grasp that his next contract has been more on the path of being a reckoning than a re-affirmation, and he's getting bad advice or something, because he hasn't tried to adapt to the reality that most GM's don't care how many times he taps his missed shots to himself; but whether he can keep his focus, set effective screens, be a factor on D, and avoid being a black-hole on offense.

My thought is even our low-risk moves need to still be pointed in the right direction for the team. Or why bother taking risks at all? Young/hungry/team-oriented players like Dean Wade and Isaiah Hartenstein cost us next to nothing, fit our time line better, fit our budget better, and cause a whole lot less friction for the team, GM, and coach.

Sure, they lack the ceiling of a Drummond or a KPJ; but we can pursue that by more conventional means by developing the players we have, by whom we draft in the future, and who we bring in via trade/signings. For instance, if we didn't get clever and draft Windler and Porter Jr, maybe we just would have taken Keldon Johnson (whom we were reportedly interested in).
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#82 » by Stillwater » Fri Apr 9, 2021 5:01 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Cp3 was not brought up as a "comp".


We need to talk about what really matters. How many years is dumping KPJ for nothing going to set this Cavs team back? 3 years? 5 years?

Kid just had 20/9/8 the other night and game winning block on defense last night.

I know I know I know its over and he threw soup and had some weed on him. I know. It is just HORRIBLE that he is not on this team as apart of this core.

Can you imagine if KPJ and Drummond were still on this team and Kevin Love was healthy for the entire year? GRRRR

If the Cavs just did nothing, simply nothing with their roster the entire year we would have a helluva team right now. All they had to do was nothing. Make zero moves. Let the roster be, and the Cavs would most likely be in a playoff spot right now with a bright bright future.


I'd much rather have Allen than Drummond in the long run. Hartenstein looks like a real steal. Those are at least two moves I'm happy the Cavs made. I'm really sick of talking about KPJ as the Cavs gave that young man plenty of chances and his issues were far more serious than his apologists want to admit. That said, maybe everyone should sit back and wait to see how successful the Rockets are building around him as the main guy. He's had some good games. So have Sexton and Garland. It takes a lot more than that to become the main guy on a winning team.

The players get a say in how things go down. You want to blame the Cavs for it, have at it, but understand the rest of us are going to need to see Drummond and KPJ do a lot more than just have a few good games.

I am done with the KPJ thing as well because he apparently thinks he is the next James Harden already... the sad part is he may be close to that eventually with that kind of moxy. In some respects I hope he screws up so the Cavs and their fanbase don't become more of a punchline than they often already are.
But at the same time KPJ is not Harden and probably never will be so even if he is close to it ,it will likely just be he's some guy who has a nice career somewhere else and it will only hurt long term if he reaches MVP levels.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#83 » by JonFromVA » Fri Apr 9, 2021 5:25 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
We need to talk about what really matters. How many years is dumping KPJ for nothing going to set this Cavs team back? 3 years? 5 years?

Kid just had 20/9/8 the other night and game winning block on defense last night.

I know I know I know its over and he threw soup and had some weed on him. I know. It is just HORRIBLE that he is not on this team as apart of this core.

Can you imagine if KPJ and Drummond were still on this team and Kevin Love was healthy for the entire year? GRRRR

If the Cavs just did nothing, simply nothing with their roster the entire year we would have a helluva team right now. All they had to do was nothing. Make zero moves. Let the roster be, and the Cavs would most likely be in a playoff spot right now with a bright bright future.


I'd much rather have Allen than Drummond in the long run. Hartenstein looks like a real steal. Those are at least two moves I'm happy the Cavs made. I'm really sick of talking about KPJ as the Cavs gave that young man plenty of chances and his issues were far more serious than his apologists want to admit. That said, maybe everyone should sit back and wait to see how successful the Rockets are building around him as the main guy. He's had some good games. So have Sexton and Garland. It takes a lot more than that to become the main guy on a winning team.

The players get a say in how things go down. You want to blame the Cavs for it, have at it, but understand the rest of us are going to need to see Drummond and KPJ do a lot more than just have a few good games.

I am done with the KPJ thing as well because he apparently thinks he is the next James Harden already... the sad part is he may be close to that eventually with that kind of moxy. In some respects I hope he screws up so the Cavs and their fanbase don't become more of a punchline than they often already are.
But at the same time KPJ is not Harden and probably never will be so even if he is close to it ,it will likely just be he's some guy who has a nice career somewhere else and it will only hurt long term if he reaches MVP levels.


Was that one sarcasm? Because that's something I'd been saying since he was a rookie ... that he wants to be Harden, but had never shown anything beyond flashes of having that kind of talent, and risked causing problems if he tried to play that style but didn't deliver consistently.

The Cavs were far better when Kevin was off-the-floor last year than on, and the disparity is even larger so far this season in Houston.

I'm personally glad to see our young players showing they can take a step-back when they don't seem to have it going on a given night and let someone else try to step-up.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#84 » by jbk1234 » Fri Apr 9, 2021 7:23 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
We need to talk about what really matters. How many years is dumping KPJ for nothing going to set this Cavs team back? 3 years? 5 years?

Kid just had 20/9/8 the other night and game winning block on defense last night.

I know I know I know its over and he threw soup and had some weed on him. I know. It is just HORRIBLE that he is not on this team as apart of this core.

Can you imagine if KPJ and Drummond were still on this team and Kevin Love was healthy for the entire year? GRRRR

If the Cavs just did nothing, simply nothing with their roster the entire year we would have a helluva team right now. All they had to do was nothing. Make zero moves. Let the roster be, and the Cavs would most likely be in a playoff spot right now with a bright bright future.


I'd much rather have Allen than Drummond in the long run. Hartenstein looks like a real steal. Those are at least two moves I'm happy the Cavs made. I'm really sick of talking about KPJ as the Cavs gave that young man plenty of chances and his issues were far more serious than his apologists want to admit. That said, maybe everyone should sit back and wait to see how successful the Rockets are building around him as the main guy. He's had some good games. So have Sexton and Garland. It takes a lot more than that to become the main guy on a winning team.

The players get a say in how things go down. You want to blame the Cavs for it, have at it, but understand the rest of us are going to need to see Drummond and KPJ do a lot more than just have a few good games.

I am done with the KPJ thing as well because he apparently thinks he is the next James Harden already... the sad part is he may be close to that eventually with that kind of moxy. In some respects I hope he screws up so the Cavs and their fanbase don't become more of a punchline than they often already are.
But at the same time KPJ is not Harden and probably never will be so even if he is close to it ,it will likely just be he's some guy who has a nice career somewhere else and it will only hurt long term if he reaches MVP levels.


You could start to see that at the end of last season. He was always going to want to be the main guy where ever he ended up.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#85 » by Stillwater » Fri Apr 9, 2021 10:18 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I'd much rather have Allen than Drummond in the long run. Hartenstein looks like a real steal. Those are at least two moves I'm happy the Cavs made. I'm really sick of talking about KPJ as the Cavs gave that young man plenty of chances and his issues were far more serious than his apologists want to admit. That said, maybe everyone should sit back and wait to see how successful the Rockets are building around him as the main guy. He's had some good games. So have Sexton and Garland. It takes a lot more than that to become the main guy on a winning team.

The players get a say in how things go down. You want to blame the Cavs for it, have at it, but understand the rest of us are going to need to see Drummond and KPJ do a lot more than just have a few good games.

I am done with the KPJ thing as well because he apparently thinks he is the next James Harden already... the sad part is he may be close to that eventually with that kind of moxy. In some respects I hope he screws up so the Cavs and their fanbase don't become more of a punchline than they often already are.
But at the same time KPJ is not Harden and probably never will be so even if he is close to it ,it will likely just be he's some guy who has a nice career somewhere else and it will only hurt long term if he reaches MVP levels.


You could start to see that at the end of last season. He was always going to want to be the main guy where ever he ended up.

Everyone wants to be that ealry on though probably right, not everyone has the upside to be and he is one of the few that probably does...but the odds he actually is that without significant luck are slim so him acting as if he definitely is which is what I am seeing now is maybe just him trying to grasp to some resemblance of a bright future whos hour glass is running out of sand without it.
Personally think it's more evident now that he is in Houston than when he was here where the reports mostly indicated he was a solid pro a solid teammate etc his rookie season except for the incidents after the shut down and the ensuing reactions to changes in player priority with locker demotions proving he wanted out based on something that petty since it must mean to him they no longer saw him as that kid /the one with the highest upside etc.
They clearly didnt and just as much as they needed to move him at that point in their minds because they did not see him as that guy for sure along with his off court problems killing any chance he had of them investing that much in him in such a focused role he is gone.
Now he could be great and if his off court stuff fades it will have been unfortunate he was unwilling to play a lesser role for the Cavs while he proved he could raise the bar off court to match their culture mantra, but in the same breath despite that being on him, I still hold it against them for expecting all their players especially ones like him with mental and emotional problems to have to meet their codes of conduct on such a short leash and it was even more surprising than anything they could not just make him stay home until he asked to come back in humility
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#86 » by JonFromVA » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:51 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I am done with the KPJ thing as well because he apparently thinks he is the next James Harden already... the sad part is he may be close to that eventually with that kind of moxy. In some respects I hope he screws up so the Cavs and their fanbase don't become more of a punchline than they often already are.
But at the same time KPJ is not Harden and probably never will be so even if he is close to it ,it will likely just be he's some guy who has a nice career somewhere else and it will only hurt long term if he reaches MVP levels.


You could start to see that at the end of last season. He was always going to want to be the main guy where ever he ended up.

Everyone wants to be that ealry on though probably right, not everyone has the upside to be and he is one of the few that probably does...but the odds he actually is that without significant luck are slim so him acting as if he definitely is which is what I am seeing now is maybe just him trying to grasp to some resemblance of a bright future whos hour glass is running out of sand without it.
Personally think it's more evident now that he is in Houston than when he was here where the reports mostly indicated he was a solid pro a solid teammate etc his rookie season except for the incidents after the shut down and the ensuing reactions to changes in player priority with locker demotions proving he wanted out based on something that petty since it must mean to him they no longer saw him as that kid /the one with the highest upside etc.
They clearly didnt and just as much as they needed to move him at that point in their minds because they did not see him as that guy for sure along with his off court problems killing any chance he had of them investing that much in him in such a focused role he is gone.
Now he could be great and if his off court stuff fades it will have been unfortunate he was unwilling to play a lesser role for the Cavs while he proved he could raise the bar off court to match their culture mantra, but in the same breath despite that being on him, I still hold it against them for expecting all their players especially ones like him with mental and emotional problems to have to meet their codes of conduct on such a short leash and it was even more surprising than anything they could not just make him stay home until he asked to come back in humility


The Cavs would had loved to get KPJ on the floor this season and see how he was progressing in his second season, but he refused to do any of the things they wanted him to do to try to prevent future anger issues. When they set their expectations aside for him, he showed them right away that being back with his team wasn't enough to prevent outbursts.

Kevin is under contract for another season, but does he feel secure about his future? If he doesn't, he's going to naturally start thinking less about what's best for the Rockets .vs. what's the best way to convince another GM in the league to give him a contract.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#87 » by Stillwater » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:17 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
You could start to see that at the end of last season. He was always going to want to be the main guy where ever he ended up.

Everyone wants to be that ealry on though probably right, not everyone has the upside to be and he is one of the few that probably does...but the odds he actually is that without significant luck are slim so him acting as if he definitely is which is what I am seeing now is maybe just him trying to grasp to some resemblance of a bright future whos hour glass is running out of sand without it.
Personally think it's more evident now that he is in Houston than when he was here where the reports mostly indicated he was a solid pro a solid teammate etc his rookie season except for the incidents after the shut down and the ensuing reactions to changes in player priority with locker demotions proving he wanted out based on something that petty since it must mean to him they no longer saw him as that kid /the one with the highest upside etc.
They clearly didnt and just as much as they needed to move him at that point in their minds because they did not see him as that guy for sure along with his off court problems killing any chance he had of them investing that much in him in such a focused role he is gone.
Now he could be great and if his off court stuff fades it will have been unfortunate he was unwilling to play a lesser role for the Cavs while he proved he could raise the bar off court to match their culture mantra, but in the same breath despite that being on him, I still hold it against them for expecting all their players especially ones like him with mental and emotional problems to have to meet their codes of conduct on such a short leash and it was even more surprising than anything they could not just make him stay home until he asked to come back in humility


The Cavs would had loved to get KPJ on the floor this season and see how he was progressing in his second season, but he refused to do any of the things they wanted him to do to try to prevent future anger issues. When they set their expectations aside for him, he showed them right away that being back with his team wasn't enough to prevent outbursts.

Kevin is under contract for another season, but does he feel secure about his future? If he doesn't, he's going to naturally start thinking less about what's best for the Rockets .vs. what's the best way to convince another GM in the league to give him a contract.

This is speculation right? I don't see anywhere that there is proof that lines were crossed or that he made no effort. What I do see is there was an apparent disconnect between him and the front office during the long extended shut down. How you interpret that is up to you.
Here is my speculation: Of course the Cavs are going to say they reached out to him and got no answer...true or not.
It could have easily been neither party was interested in talking about it esp the one dealing with private off court stuff via atty advice which really is justified and not any of the Cavs business initially anyway'
They then chose to make a fool of him when he returned acting as if he had simply been an awol employee being demoted as a result and not one that was dealing with serious accusations he was innocent of but being treated as if he was already convicted. No wonder he called it modern day slavery but I don't expect you or most people to understand that or agree with it if you do.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#88 » by JonFromVA » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:27 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Everyone wants to be that ealry on though probably right, not everyone has the upside to be and he is one of the few that probably does...but the odds he actually is that without significant luck are slim so him acting as if he definitely is which is what I am seeing now is maybe just him trying to grasp to some resemblance of a bright future whos hour glass is running out of sand without it.
Personally think it's more evident now that he is in Houston than when he was here where the reports mostly indicated he was a solid pro a solid teammate etc his rookie season except for the incidents after the shut down and the ensuing reactions to changes in player priority with locker demotions proving he wanted out based on something that petty since it must mean to him they no longer saw him as that kid /the one with the highest upside etc.
They clearly didnt and just as much as they needed to move him at that point in their minds because they did not see him as that guy for sure along with his off court problems killing any chance he had of them investing that much in him in such a focused role he is gone.
Now he could be great and if his off court stuff fades it will have been unfortunate he was unwilling to play a lesser role for the Cavs while he proved he could raise the bar off court to match their culture mantra, but in the same breath despite that being on him, I still hold it against them for expecting all their players especially ones like him with mental and emotional problems to have to meet their codes of conduct on such a short leash and it was even more surprising than anything they could not just make him stay home until he asked to come back in humility


The Cavs would had loved to get KPJ on the floor this season and see how he was progressing in his second season, but he refused to do any of the things they wanted him to do to try to prevent future anger issues. When they set their expectations aside for him, he showed them right away that being back with his team wasn't enough to prevent outbursts.

Kevin is under contract for another season, but does he feel secure about his future? If he doesn't, he's going to naturally start thinking less about what's best for the Rockets .vs. what's the best way to convince another GM in the league to give him a contract.

This is speculation right? I don't see anywhere that there is proof that lines were crossed or that he made no effort. What I do see is there was an apparent disconnect between him and the front office during the long extended shut down. How you interpret that is up to you.
Here is my speculation: Of course the Cavs are going to say they reached out to him and got no answer...true or not.
It could have easily been neither party was interested in talking about it esp the one dealing with private off court stuff via atty advice which really is justified and not any of the Cavs business initially anyway'
They then chose to make a fool of him when he returned acting as if he had simply been an awol employee being demoted as a result and not one that was dealing with serious accusations he was innocent of but being treated as if he was already convicted. No wonder he called it modern day slavery but I don't expect you or most people to understand that or agree with it if you do.


No, if I was speculating, I would have said so. What I can tell you is that Fedor reported on it in the Athletic.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#89 » by jbk1234 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:38 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Everyone wants to be that ealry on though probably right, not everyone has the upside to be and he is one of the few that probably does...but the odds he actually is that without significant luck are slim so him acting as if he definitely is which is what I am seeing now is maybe just him trying to grasp to some resemblance of a bright future whos hour glass is running out of sand without it.
Personally think it's more evident now that he is in Houston than when he was here where the reports mostly indicated he was a solid pro a solid teammate etc his rookie season except for the incidents after the shut down and the ensuing reactions to changes in player priority with locker demotions proving he wanted out based on something that petty since it must mean to him they no longer saw him as that kid /the one with the highest upside etc.
They clearly didnt and just as much as they needed to move him at that point in their minds because they did not see him as that guy for sure along with his off court problems killing any chance he had of them investing that much in him in such a focused role he is gone.
Now he could be great and if his off court stuff fades it will have been unfortunate he was unwilling to play a lesser role for the Cavs while he proved he could raise the bar off court to match their culture mantra, but in the same breath despite that being on him, I still hold it against them for expecting all their players especially ones like him with mental and emotional problems to have to meet their codes of conduct on such a short leash and it was even more surprising than anything they could not just make him stay home until he asked to come back in humility


The Cavs would had loved to get KPJ on the floor this season and see how he was progressing in his second season, but he refused to do any of the things they wanted him to do to try to prevent future anger issues. When they set their expectations aside for him, he showed them right away that being back with his team wasn't enough to prevent outbursts.

Kevin is under contract for another season, but does he feel secure about his future? If he doesn't, he's going to naturally start thinking less about what's best for the Rockets .vs. what's the best way to convince another GM in the league to give him a contract.

This is speculation right? I don't see anywhere that there is proof that lines were crossed or that he made no effort. What I do see is there was an apparent disconnect between him and the front office during the long extended shut down. How you interpret that is up to you.
Here is my speculation: Of course the Cavs are going to say they reached out to him and got no answer...true or not.
It could have easily been neither party was interested in talking about it esp the one dealing with private off court stuff via atty advice which really is justified and not any of the Cavs business initially anyway'
They then chose to make a fool of him when he returned acting as if he had simply been an awol employee being demoted as a result and not one that was dealing with serious accusations he was innocent of but being treated as if he was already convicted. No wonder he called it modern day slavery but I don't expect you or most people to understand that or agree with it if you do.


These are the ramblings of a crazy person. I don't even know what's left to add at this point.

After everything that happened with KPJ at USC, he flips his car while driving to Youngstown at 3:00 a.m. with a loaded firearm in the vehicle. KPJ and the state troopers made that public. Then he posts on social media, aka broadcasts to the world, that he sometimes doesn't want to be here, or live or whatever. KPJ did that not the Cavs. The woman who filed the police complaint against KPJ made that issue public, not the Cavs. Everything that was made public was made public due to KPJ and yes, I'm including the locker incident because if you scream at your GM in front of the entire team, you've guaranteed it's going to leak out.

It doesn't matter whether he goes on to be successful with another team after having learned his lesson here (something I'm pretty skeptical about tbh), because he was a train wreck here. All of the nonsense that occurred with KPJ occurred within a single NBA season. His rookie season. And, this is just what's public. Don't assume we've heard everything. I know there's some stuff that happened when Kyrie was on his rookie contract here that the Cavs never made public.

He slipped, repeatedly, and now he's gone. He got more from the Cavs than was owed, more than what most teams would give, and it still wasn't enough. This ain't college. It's the real world. You need additional support, spend some of the money they pay you on it.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#90 » by Stillwater » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:03 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
The Cavs would had loved to get KPJ on the floor this season and see how he was progressing in his second season, but he refused to do any of the things they wanted him to do to try to prevent future anger issues. When they set their expectations aside for him, he showed them right away that being back with his team wasn't enough to prevent outbursts.

Kevin is under contract for another season, but does he feel secure about his future? If he doesn't, he's going to naturally start thinking less about what's best for the Rockets .vs. what's the best way to convince another GM in the league to give him a contract.

This is speculation right? I don't see anywhere that there is proof that lines were crossed or that he made no effort. What I do see is there was an apparent disconnect between him and the front office during the long extended shut down. How you interpret that is up to you.
Here is my speculation: Of course the Cavs are going to say they reached out to him and got no answer...true or not.
It could have easily been neither party was interested in talking about it esp the one dealing with private off court stuff via atty advice which really is justified and not any of the Cavs business initially anyway'
They then chose to make a fool of him when he returned acting as if he had simply been an awol employee being demoted as a result and not one that was dealing with serious accusations he was innocent of but being treated as if he was already convicted. No wonder he called it modern day slavery but I don't expect you or most people to understand that or agree with it if you do.


These are the ramblings of a crazy person. I don't even know what's left to add at this point.

After everything that happened with KPJ at USC, he flips his car while driving to Youngstown at 3:00 a.m. with a loaded firearm in the vehicle. KPJ and the state troopers made that public. Then he posts on social media, aka broadcasts to the world, that he sometimes doesn't want to be here, or live or whatever. KPJ did that not the Cavs. The woman who filed the police complaint against KPJ made that issue public, not the Cavs. Everything that was made public was made public due to KPJ and yes, I'm including the locker incident because if you scream at your GM in front of the entire team, you've guaranteed it's going to leak out.

It doesn't matter whether he goes on to be successful with another team after having learned his lesson here (something I'm pretty skeptical about tbh), because he was a train wreck here. All of the nonsense that occurred with KPJ occurred within a single NBA season. His rookie season. And, this is just what's public. Don't assume we've heard everything. I know there's some stuff that happened when Kyrie was on his rookie contract here that the Cavs never made public.

He slipped, repeatedly, and now he's gone. He got more from the Cavs than was owed, more than what most teams would give, and it still wasn't enough. This ain't college. It's the real world. You need additional support, spend some of the money they pay you on it.

There is nothing crazy about recognizing a person being treated like piece of trash when they come wandering back home from raising hell instead of being welcomed back like the prodigal son like any smart org would do even if they didnt actually love him , to lessen the chances for outbursts and if nothing else flip him at the dl, it's a pretty large factor in why KPJ wanted gone which is what eventually will come out I'm sure of it regardless if you chose to think the org did more than enough, I say they did nothing right and would have been better off doing nothing at all as a result.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#91 » by jbk1234 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:09 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:This is speculation right? I don't see anywhere that there is proof that lines were crossed or that he made no effort. What I do see is there was an apparent disconnect between him and the front office during the long extended shut down. How you interpret that is up to you.
Here is my speculation: Of course the Cavs are going to say they reached out to him and got no answer...true or not.
It could have easily been neither party was interested in talking about it esp the one dealing with private off court stuff via atty advice which really is justified and not any of the Cavs business initially anyway'
They then chose to make a fool of him when he returned acting as if he had simply been an awol employee being demoted as a result and not one that was dealing with serious accusations he was innocent of but being treated as if he was already convicted. No wonder he called it modern day slavery but I don't expect you or most people to understand that or agree with it if you do.


These are the ramblings of a crazy person. I don't even know what's left to add at this point.

After everything that happened with KPJ at USC, he flips his car while driving to Youngstown at 3:00 a.m. with a loaded firearm in the vehicle. KPJ and the state troopers made that public. Then he posts on social media, aka broadcasts to the world, that he sometimes doesn't want to be here, or live or whatever. KPJ did that not the Cavs. The woman who filed the police complaint against KPJ made that issue public, not the Cavs. Everything that was made public was made public due to KPJ and yes, I'm including the locker incident because if you scream at your GM in front of the entire team, you've guaranteed it's going to leak out.

It doesn't matter whether he goes on to be successful with another team after having learned his lesson here (something I'm pretty skeptical about tbh), because he was a train wreck here. All of the nonsense that occurred with KPJ occurred within a single NBA season. His rookie season. And, this is just what's public. Don't assume we've heard everything. I know there's some stuff that happened when Kyrie was on his rookie contract here that the Cavs never made public.

He slipped, repeatedly, and now he's gone. He got more from the Cavs than was owed, more than what most teams would give, and it still wasn't enough. This ain't college. It's the real world. You need additional support, spend some of the money they pay you on it.

There is nothing crazy about recognizing a person being treated like piece of trash when they come wandering back home from raising hell instead of being welcomed back like the prodigal son like any smart org would do even if they didnt actually love him , to lessen the chances for outbursts and if nothing else flip him at the dl, it's a pretty large factor in why KPJ wanted gone which is what eventually will come out I'm sure of it regardless if you chose to think the org did more than enough, I say they did nothing right and would have been better off doing nothing at all as a result.


Doing nothing isn't really a choice when a player is disrespecting his teammates, coaches, and the GM. Everything that KPJ pulled since getting drafted is the reason 30 teams passed on him and two teams passed on him twice. Again, the NBA is a professional league. The players are well compensated. There are minimal expectations that come with seven-figure salaries. KPJ repeatedly failed to meet them.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#92 » by Stillwater » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:15 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
These are the ramblings of a crazy person. I don't even know what's left to add at this point.

After everything that happened with KPJ at USC, he flips his car while driving to Youngstown at 3:00 a.m. with a loaded firearm in the vehicle. KPJ and the state troopers made that public. Then he posts on social media, aka broadcasts to the world, that he sometimes doesn't want to be here, or live or whatever. KPJ did that not the Cavs. The woman who filed the police complaint against KPJ made that issue public, not the Cavs. Everything that was made public was made public due to KPJ and yes, I'm including the locker incident because if you scream at your GM in front of the entire team, you've guaranteed it's going to leak out.

It doesn't matter whether he goes on to be successful with another team after having learned his lesson here (something I'm pretty skeptical about tbh), because he was a train wreck here. All of the nonsense that occurred with KPJ occurred within a single NBA season. His rookie season. And, this is just what's public. Don't assume we've heard everything. I know there's some stuff that happened when Kyrie was on his rookie contract here that the Cavs never made public.

He slipped, repeatedly, and now he's gone. He got more from the Cavs than was owed, more than what most teams would give, and it still wasn't enough. This ain't college. It's the real world. You need additional support, spend some of the money they pay you on it.

There is nothing crazy about recognizing a person being treated like piece of trash when they come wandering back home from raising hell instead of being welcomed back like the prodigal son like any smart org would do even if they didnt actually love him , to lessen the chances for outbursts and if nothing else flip him at the dl, it's a pretty large factor in why KPJ wanted gone which is what eventually will come out I'm sure of it regardless if you chose to think the org did more than enough, I say they did nothing right and would have been better off doing nothing at all as a result.


Doing nothing isn't really a choice when a player is disrespecting his teammates, coaches, and the GM. Everything that KPJ pulled since getting drafted is the reason 30 teams passed on him and two teams passed on him twice. Again, the NBA is a professional league. The players are well compensated. There are minimal expectations that come with seven-figure salaries. KPJ repeatedly failed to meet them.

without question he failed to meet their desired level of character and I get that...
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#93 » by JonFromVA » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
These are the ramblings of a crazy person. I don't even know what's left to add at this point.

After everything that happened with KPJ at USC, he flips his car while driving to Youngstown at 3:00 a.m. with a loaded firearm in the vehicle. KPJ and the state troopers made that public. Then he posts on social media, aka broadcasts to the world, that he sometimes doesn't want to be here, or live or whatever. KPJ did that not the Cavs. The woman who filed the police complaint against KPJ made that issue public, not the Cavs. Everything that was made public was made public due to KPJ and yes, I'm including the locker incident because if you scream at your GM in front of the entire team, you've guaranteed it's going to leak out.

It doesn't matter whether he goes on to be successful with another team after having learned his lesson here (something I'm pretty skeptical about tbh), because he was a train wreck here. All of the nonsense that occurred with KPJ occurred within a single NBA season. His rookie season. And, this is just what's public. Don't assume we've heard everything. I know there's some stuff that happened when Kyrie was on his rookie contract here that the Cavs never made public.

He slipped, repeatedly, and now he's gone. He got more from the Cavs than was owed, more than what most teams would give, and it still wasn't enough. This ain't college. It's the real world. You need additional support, spend some of the money they pay you on it.

There is nothing crazy about recognizing a person being treated like piece of trash when they come wandering back home from raising hell instead of being welcomed back like the prodigal son like any smart org would do even if they didnt actually love him , to lessen the chances for outbursts and if nothing else flip him at the dl, it's a pretty large factor in why KPJ wanted gone which is what eventually will come out I'm sure of it regardless if you chose to think the org did more than enough, I say they did nothing right and would have been better off doing nothing at all as a result.


Doing nothing isn't really a choice when a player is disrespecting his teammates, coaches, and the GM. Everything that KPJ pulled since getting drafted is the reason 30 teams passed on him and two teams passed on him twice. Again, the NBA is a professional league. The players are well compensated. There are minimal expectations that come with seven-figure salaries. KPJ repeatedly failed to meet them.


It's just silly to think the Cavs wanted to give up a player with Kevin's talent for nothing. They were so desperate to make it work they actually tried the "do nothing" approach. That his last outburst happened in the locker-room certainly makes a big difference. It demonstrated his lack of self-control had no bounds, and anything that upset him, might trigger him.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#94 » by Stillwater » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:55 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:There is nothing crazy about recognizing a person being treated like piece of trash when they come wandering back home from raising hell instead of being welcomed back like the prodigal son like any smart org would do even if they didnt actually love him , to lessen the chances for outbursts and if nothing else flip him at the dl, it's a pretty large factor in why KPJ wanted gone which is what eventually will come out I'm sure of it regardless if you chose to think the org did more than enough, I say they did nothing right and would have been better off doing nothing at all as a result.


Doing nothing isn't really a choice when a player is disrespecting his teammates, coaches, and the GM. Everything that KPJ pulled since getting drafted is the reason 30 teams passed on him and two teams passed on him twice. Again, the NBA is a professional league. The players are well compensated. There are minimal expectations that come with seven-figure salaries. KPJ repeatedly failed to meet them.


It's just silly to think the Cavs wanted to give up a player with Kevin's talent for nothing. They were so desperate to make it work they actually tried the "do nothing" approach. That his last outburst happened in the locker-room certainly makes a big difference. It demonstrated his lack of self-control had no bounds, and anything that upset him, might trigger him.

You are right he lost it apparently, but the difference to me is no one is recognizing it was intentional by him overreacting knowing that is exactly what this front office tried to control as if they have any right to tell somebody how to live. Being an employee requires you to show up and do your job. Demanding a player be a certain type of person when they are not on the clock is unreasonable and damn sure part of why he saw them as modern day Slavers. I don't think he just said it without meaning it though because they did act like they cared more about their culture of control
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#95 » by JonFromVA » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:45 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Doing nothing isn't really a choice when a player is disrespecting his teammates, coaches, and the GM. Everything that KPJ pulled since getting drafted is the reason 30 teams passed on him and two teams passed on him twice. Again, the NBA is a professional league. The players are well compensated. There are minimal expectations that come with seven-figure salaries. KPJ repeatedly failed to meet them.


It's just silly to think the Cavs wanted to give up a player with Kevin's talent for nothing. They were so desperate to make it work they actually tried the "do nothing" approach. That his last outburst happened in the locker-room certainly makes a big difference. It demonstrated his lack of self-control had no bounds, and anything that upset him, might trigger him.

You are right he lost it apparently, but the difference to me is no one is recognizing it was intentional by him overreacting knowing that is exactly what this front office tried to control as if they have any right to tell somebody how to live. Being an employee requires you to show up and do your job. Demanding a player be a certain type of person when they are not on the clock is unreasonable and damn sure part of why he saw them as modern day Slavers. I don't think he just said it without meaning it though because they did act like they cared more about their culture of control


You can believe that's how the world should work, but it's NOT how the world does work, especially for people in high-profile jobs where anything they say or do is directly reflected on the people they work for and work with and can have an economic impact.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#96 » by Stillwater » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:40 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
It's just silly to think the Cavs wanted to give up a player with Kevin's talent for nothing. They were so desperate to make it work they actually tried the "do nothing" approach. That his last outburst happened in the locker-room certainly makes a big difference. It demonstrated his lack of self-control had no bounds, and anything that upset him, might trigger him.

You are right he lost it apparently, but the difference to me is no one is recognizing it was intentional by him overreacting knowing that is exactly what this front office tried to control as if they have any right to tell somebody how to live. Being an employee requires you to show up and do your job. Demanding a player be a certain type of person when they are not on the clock is unreasonable and damn sure part of why he saw them as modern day Slavers. I don't think he just said it without meaning it though because they did act like they cared more about their culture of control


You can believe that's how the world should work, but it's NOT how the world does work, especially for people in high-profile jobs where anything they say or do is directly reflected on the people they work for and work with and can have an economic impact.

He was not just mistreated and all this afforded every opportunity sht is make believe. He was disrespected and so the response was disrespectful. If my employer moved my locker with my stuff in it without my knowledge and I found out it was only me that got moved...I think its fair to say I would have confronted the boss in the parking lot instead of making a scene because I am a man not a boy but when I was 19 20 I would have been in his face demanding answers right or wrong they had it coming and him making it even more of an issue by throwing food and calling them modern day slavers proves he felt disrespected and wanted out so they deserve the blame for pushing him over the edge as well
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#97 » by JonFromVA » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:50 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:You are right he lost it apparently, but the difference to me is no one is recognizing it was intentional by him overreacting knowing that is exactly what this front office tried to control as if they have any right to tell somebody how to live. Being an employee requires you to show up and do your job. Demanding a player be a certain type of person when they are not on the clock is unreasonable and damn sure part of why he saw them as modern day Slavers. I don't think he just said it without meaning it though because they did act like they cared more about their culture of control


You can believe that's how the world should work, but it's NOT how the world does work, especially for people in high-profile jobs where anything they say or do is directly reflected on the people they work for and work with and can have an economic impact.

He was not just mistreated and all this afforded every opportunity sht is make believe. He was disrespected and so the response was disrespectful. If my employer moved my locker with my stuff in it without my knowledge and I found out it was only me that got moved...I think its fair to say I would have confronted the boss in the parking lot instead of making a scene because I am a man not a boy but when I was 19 20 I would have been in his face demanding answers right or wrong they had it coming and him making it even more of an issue by throwing food and calling them modern day slavers proves he felt disrespected and wanted out so they deserve the blame for pushing him over the edge as well


Yes, we know all too well how you've constructed your fantasy construct. Be sure to let us know when you're willing to incorporate facts in to it.
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Re: Game 50 : Cleveland Cavaliers (17-32) @ San Antonio Spurs (24-23) - 7:00PM 

Post#98 » by Stillwater » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:08 am

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
You can believe that's how the world should work, but it's NOT how the world does work, especially for people in high-profile jobs where anything they say or do is directly reflected on the people they work for and work with and can have an economic impact.

He was not just mistreated and all this afforded every opportunity sht is make believe. He was disrespected and so the response was disrespectful. If my employer moved my locker with my stuff in it without my knowledge and I found out it was only me that got moved...I think its fair to say I would have confronted the boss in the parking lot instead of making a scene because I am a man not a boy but when I was 19 20 I would have been in his face demanding answers right or wrong they had it coming and him making it even more of an issue by throwing food and calling them modern day slavers proves he felt disrespected and wanted out so they deserve the blame for pushing him over the edge as well


Yes, we know all too well how you've constructed your fantasy construct. Be sure to let us know when you're willing to incorporate facts in to it.

There is actually zero difference in what I just said then what actually happened but keep buying the line of **** soap boxer I expect nothing less
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"

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