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It would be nice if we can make some shots on the road, maybe make this interesting.

Might watch a few minutes before the NCAA final is on, but only because I am interested in Vassell and Keldon who this org could have had both of

Stillwater wrote:Might watch a few minutes before the NCAA final is on, but only because I am interested in Vassell and Keldon who this org could have had both of

If I could ask Dan Gilbert to do just one thing with all his money, I'd have him overpay and pilfer the key scouts and talent evaluators from teams like that constantly nail late picks. I suppose the trick is figuring out who is actually making the correct evaluations and judgements.

JonFromVA wrote:

Stillwater wrote:Might watch a few minutes before the NCAA final is on, but only because I am interested in Vassell and Keldon who this org could have had both of

If I could ask Dan Gilbert to do just one thing with all his money, I'd have him overpay and pilfer the key scouts and talent evaluators from teams like that constantly nail late picks. I suppose the trick is figuring out who is actually making the correct evaluations and judgements.

I actually think it is more about how well the Spurs get the most out the players they draft than their scouting. But they definitely have hit on a lot of players that most slept on. Thats yet to be determined with Vassel though. I mean Nobody expect Keldon to fall that far so maybe the spurs put false info out there to drop his stock or maybe somebody else did and the Spurs called their bluff.
Either way this org has a tendency I think to overvalue small windows of success and undervalue the intangibles and the Spurs clearly are the opposite

Stillwater wrote:Might watch a few minutes before the NCAA final is on, but only because I am interested in Vassell and Keldon who this org could have had both of

I think that Keldon's game against us might have been the best game of his career based on his numbers. He's averaging almost 30 mpg and only 13 ppg 10 FGA per game.

Vassell's numbers, albeit in more limited minutes (17 mpg), are less than, but about in line with what the Cavs are getting from Okoro. Pat Williams is giving the Bulls a tiny bit more but all three of the top SF prospects look like they need another year, or two even.

Stillwater wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

Stillwater wrote:Might watch a few minutes before the NCAA final is on, but only because I am interested in Vassell and Keldon who this org could have had both of

If I could ask Dan Gilbert to do just one thing with all his money, I'd have him overpay and pilfer the key scouts and talent evaluators from teams like that constantly nail late picks. I suppose the trick is figuring out who is actually making the correct evaluations and judgements.

I actually think it is more about how well the Spurs get the most out the players they draft than their scouting. But they definitely have hit on a lot of players that most slept on. Thats yet to be determined with Vassel though. I mean Nobody expect Keldon to fall that far so maybe the spurs put false info out there to drop his stock or maybe somebody else did and the Spurs called their bluff.
Either way this org has a tendency I think to overvalue small windows of success and undervalue the intangibles and the Spurs clearly are the opposite

Dan's money could help us buy some top-end talent in the player development area too, but alas he seems opposed to spending his money in these areas where the NBA puts no restrictions because of his "corporate philosophies".

damn that was a shifty move by DG

DG's best game of his career. Also, lol at all the people on the T&T board who insisted Dieng was better than Drummond. If he sticks in the NBA, he's a league minimum guy going forward.

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We definitely won the McGee trade. Haretenstein can play off the bench. However, Wade hasn't shot well from 3 for a while now.

Love and Delly are both sporting some beer bellies. Maybe, they play themselves into game shape by the end of the season.

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when Keldon is playing in the front court you know they are tanking... nice stat line from DG though looked better than usual in the few minutes I caught

Stillwater wrote:when Keldon is playing in the front court you know they are tanking... nice stat line from DG though looked better than usual in the few minutes I caught

They were saying on the Spurs board that opposing teams had begun defending him with bigger defenders and he had struggled with that. Keldon likes to play bully ball so I could see it.

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I watched the Cavs game first, then went back and blew through the boring championship game, lol. Not many impressions of that other than Baylor looked bigger/older/stronger/faster by a lot.

Maybe It goes differently for Garland if Murray was available for the Spurs, but there are often special circumstances when a player has a big game. And even as hot as Garland got, his heat-checks still missed badly. If he's going to become a player with "infinite range" he has a lot of work to do, but his comfort level at pulling off his various moves against NBA players is increasing, and that's great to see. He's doing a better job creating space and finding ways to get his shot off or make a pass. And to top if all off he even blocked Poetl at one point.

Once again the opposing announcers were very impressed by Darius's bag of tricks, not just scoring but passing/vision as well.

And I don't want to downplay the Love+Wade front-court even though Wade has been struggling to hit his 3's recently. When the scouting reports says "don't leave him open", that's enough to create space our guards haven't seen much of this season. This is definitely something to keep an eye on, albeit Nance and Allen may return imminently.

jbk1234 wrote:DG's best game of his career. Also, lol at all the people on the T&T board who insisted Dieng was better than Drummond. If he sticks in the NBA, he's a league minimum guy going forward.

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This is the reason why I will prioritize Garland over Sexton for the longterm. When he is 'on' and is aggressivly hunting his shot with confidence, he is a future All Star. But he is still learning to trust his scoring.

When Garland is acting like the #1 option the offense seems to also play much smoother. Hes so good at driving and finding the right guy whereas Sexton slows the offense down to a crawl when he is the #1 because he ISO scores. Even when Sexton is 'on' the rest of the team might not benefit. Its almost like empty stats.

ALSO--somebodys got to bring it up. Garland/Sexton is turning into Kyrie/Waiters 2.0. The only way I see this team actually growing in the future is if they have that hard conversation with Sexton that his future that best benefits the Cavs is as a 6th man.

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:DG's best game of his career. Also, lol at all the people on the T&T board who insisted Dieng was better than Drummond. If he sticks in the NBA, he's a league minimum guy going forward.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

This is the reason why I will prioritize Garland over Sexton for the longterm. When he is 'on' and is aggressivly hunting his shot with confidence, he is a future All Star. But he is still learning to trust his scoring.

When Garland is acting like the #1 option the offense seems to also play much smoother. Hes so good at driving and finding the right guy whereas Sexton slows the offense down to a crawl when he is the #1 because he ISO scores. Even when Sexton is 'on' the rest of the team might not benefit. Its almost like empty stats.

ALSO--somebodys got to bring it up. Garland/Sexton is turning into Kyrie/Waiters 2.0. The only way I see this team actually growing in the future is if they have that hard conversation with Sexton that his future that best benefits the Cavs is as a 6th man.

lol, but who is who?

The offense tended to flow better with Waiters, but his efficiency was terrible whereas it seemed Kyrie only passed the ball if he was triple teamed and physically couldn't find a way to put the ball in the basket. So, teammates felt shutout, but his efficiency was generally good.

But regardless, unlike Waiters/Irving ... Garland/Sexton seem to have a good relationship, and a lot of things would improve by just convincing them to play more off each other, providing better floor spacing so both players have more options when on the ball, and just getting more movement in the offense in general.

There are going to be games where the defense dictates that they're going to let a specific player beat them or not beat them. These very young players need to learn how not to fall in to "traps", take what they're given, and still turn it in to something better. Darius and Collin have the sort of talent that they can attack a defense 1v5, but that should be the last resort not the first. Surely they see opponents scoring with ease against our defense at times, the trick is figuring that out and turning the tables on some other team as unprepared as we currently are to deal with a complex offense.

For instance, every time Darius comes off a screen and gets trapped by two defenders and can't do anything but try to escape the trap ... that's a wasted opportunity. Our offense needs to be a step ahead, not a step behind the defense and that potential trap becomes a wide open shot.

It's just experience.

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:DG's best game of his career. Also, lol at all the people on the T&T board who insisted Dieng was better than Drummond. If he sticks in the NBA, he's a league minimum guy going forward.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

This is the reason why I will prioritize Garland over Sexton for the longterm. When he is 'on' and is aggressivly hunting his shot with confidence, he is a future All Star. But he is still learning to trust his scoring.

When Garland is acting like the #1 option the offense seems to also play much smoother. Hes so good at driving and finding the right guy whereas Sexton slows the offense down to a crawl when he is the #1 because he ISO scores. Even when Sexton is 'on' the rest of the team might not benefit. Its almost like empty stats.

ALSO--somebodys got to bring it up. Garland/Sexton is turning into Kyrie/Waiters 2.0. The only way I see this team actually growing in the future is if they have that hard conversation with Sexton that his future that best benefits the Cavs is as a 6th man.

lol, but who is who?

The offense tended to flow better with Waiters, but his efficiency was terrible whereas it seemed Kyrie only passed the ball if he was triple teamed and physically couldn't find a way to put the ball in the basket. So, teammates felt shutout, but his efficiency was generally good.

But regardless, unlike Waiters/Irving ... Garland/Sexton seem to have a good relationship, and a lot of things would improve by just convincing them to play more off each other, providing better floor spacing so both players have more options when on the ball, and just getting more movement in the offense in general.

There are going to be games where the defense dictates that they're going to let a specific player beat them or not beat them. These very young players need to learn how not to fall in to "traps", take what they're given, and still turn it in to something better. Darius and Collin have the sort of talent that they can attack a defense 1v5, but that should be the last resort not the first. Surely they see opponents scoring with ease against our defense at times, the trick is figuring that out and turning the tables on some other team as unprepared as we currently are to deal with a complex offense.

For instance, every time Darius comes off a screen and gets trapped by two defenders and can't do anything but try to escape the trap ... that's a wasted opportunity. Our offense needs to be a step ahead, not a step behind the defense and that potential trap becomes a wide open shot.

It's just experience.

I dont know about that, Amico has reported that Garland already has one foot out the door and wont be back for his next contract because he doesnt 100% love the way Sexton plays. You can tell in his body language when Sexton stops the ball movement to put a ISO move on a defender only to get blocked at the rim or brick a mid range.

Im just saying, the Cavs are going to have to decide between the two in the next year or two. There is noway this team works out currently constructed unless you stagger Garland/Sexton. Both need the ball in their hands to be successful and neither is a great off-ball player. Especially after what we say last night with what happens when Garland is the #1. I much prefer that to when Sexton is pounding the ball missing cutters all over the place because he has tunnel vision.

LivingLegend wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:
This is the reason why I will prioritize Garland over Sexton for the longterm. When he is 'on' and is aggressivly hunting his shot with confidence, he is a future All Star. But he is still learning to trust his scoring.

When Garland is acting like the #1 option the offense seems to also play much smoother. Hes so good at driving and finding the right guy whereas Sexton slows the offense down to a crawl when he is the #1 because he ISO scores. Even when Sexton is 'on' the rest of the team might not benefit. Its almost like empty stats.

ALSO--somebodys got to bring it up. Garland/Sexton is turning into Kyrie/Waiters 2.0. The only way I see this team actually growing in the future is if they have that hard conversation with Sexton that his future that best benefits the Cavs is as a 6th man.

lol, but who is who?

The offense tended to flow better with Waiters, but his efficiency was terrible whereas it seemed Kyrie only passed the ball if he was triple teamed and physically couldn't find a way to put the ball in the basket. So, teammates felt shutout, but his efficiency was generally good.

But regardless, unlike Waiters/Irving ... Garland/Sexton seem to have a good relationship, and a lot of things would improve by just convincing them to play more off each other, providing better floor spacing so both players have more options when on the ball, and just getting more movement in the offense in general.

There are going to be games where the defense dictates that they're going to let a specific player beat them or not beat them. These very young players need to learn how not to fall in to "traps", take what they're given, and still turn it in to something better. Darius and Collin have the sort of talent that they can attack a defense 1v5, but that should be the last resort not the first. Surely they see opponents scoring with ease against our defense at times, the trick is figuring that out and turning the tables on some other team as unprepared as we currently are to deal with a complex offense.

For instance, every time Darius comes off a screen and gets trapped by two defenders and can't do anything but try to escape the trap ... that's a wasted opportunity. Our offense needs to be a step ahead, not a step behind the defense and that potential trap becomes a wide open shot.

It's just experience.

I dont know about that, Amico has reported that Garland already has one foot out the door and wont be back for his next contract because he doesnt 100% love the way Sexton plays. You can tell in his body language when Sexton stops the ball movement to put a ISO move on a defender only to get blocked at the rim or brick a mid range.

Im just saying, the Cavs are going to have to decide between the two in the next year or two. There is noway this team works out currently constructed unless you stagger Garland/Sexton. Both need the ball in their hands to be successful and neither is a great off-ball player. Especially after what we say last night with what happens when Garland is the #1. I much prefer that to when Sexton is pounding the ball missing cutters all over the place because he has tunnel vision.

Setting the Sam Amico "hunch" aside as he's generally considered a hack even when reporting from his "sources", I haven't noticed any body language from Darius directed at Collin. He seems to always be very upbeat except when he hangs his head after blowing one of his own drives. I'll be looking for it.

I think it's still too early to call on picking one, the other, both, or neither. It's unfortunate that we'll have to decide whether we want to extend Collin soon, but that's just how it goes. There's no reason they can't learn to play off each other, and the fact they both can score on their own but in different ways is a strength not a weakness.

The point of playing two scorers like Darius and Collin together is that when the defense sells out to stop one, the other should be having his way, and visa-versa; but Darius is in the process of building his confidence, and Collin is learning how to deal with defenses focused on him while both of them are learning how to defend. Something we haven't talked about on this board is that Collin has made the transition this season from a poor "clutch time" player in to a fantastic one this season averaging 50.4 points per48 on 65% efg. Darius has also made progress in that area since his rookie season and is averaging 33.1 points per48 on 50% efg this season. We just need to keep more games closer.

Still ... about the only thing the Cavs should be tracking is how many games we've had our intended starting 5 playing and practicing together. Once that's comfortably above 0, we can start deciding how the pieces and parts are progressing towards where they need to eventually get.

I mean seriously, the one constant around Sexland all year is we've been playing Okoro at SF who's generally over-matched on defense and contributing very little on offense. He will turn the corner, and when he does it should make a huge difference.

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
lol, but who is who?

The offense tended to flow better with Waiters, but his efficiency was terrible whereas it seemed Kyrie only passed the ball if he was triple teamed and physically couldn't find a way to put the ball in the basket. So, teammates felt shutout, but his efficiency was generally good.

But regardless, unlike Waiters/Irving ... Garland/Sexton seem to have a good relationship, and a lot of things would improve by just convincing them to play more off each other, providing better floor spacing so both players have more options when on the ball, and just getting more movement in the offense in general.

There are going to be games where the defense dictates that they're going to let a specific player beat them or not beat them. These very young players need to learn how not to fall in to "traps", take what they're given, and still turn it in to something better. Darius and Collin have the sort of talent that they can attack a defense 1v5, but that should be the last resort not the first. Surely they see opponents scoring with ease against our defense at times, the trick is figuring that out and turning the tables on some other team as unprepared as we currently are to deal with a complex offense.

For instance, every time Darius comes off a screen and gets trapped by two defenders and can't do anything but try to escape the trap ... that's a wasted opportunity. Our offense needs to be a step ahead, not a step behind the defense and that potential trap becomes a wide open shot.

It's just experience.

I dont know about that, Amico has reported that Garland already has one foot out the door and wont be back for his next contract because he doesnt 100% love the way Sexton plays. You can tell in his body language when Sexton stops the ball movement to put a ISO move on a defender only to get blocked at the rim or brick a mid range.

Im just saying, the Cavs are going to have to decide between the two in the next year or two. There is noway this team works out currently constructed unless you stagger Garland/Sexton. Both need the ball in their hands to be successful and neither is a great off-ball player. Especially after what we say last night with what happens when Garland is the #1. I much prefer that to when Sexton is pounding the ball missing cutters all over the place because he has tunnel vision.

Setting the Sam Amico "hunch" aside as he's generally considered a hack even when reporting from his "sources", I haven't noticed any body language from Darius directed at Collin. He seems to always be very upbeat except when he hangs his head after blowing one of his own drives. I'll be looking for it.

I think it's still too early to call on picking one, the other, both, or neither. It's unfortunate that we'll have to decide whether we want to extend Collin soon, but that's just how it goes. There's no reason they can't learn to play off each other, and the fact they both can score on their own but in different ways is a strength not a weakness.

The point of playing two scorers like Darius and Collin together is that when the defense sells out to stop one, the other should be having his way, and visa-versa; but Darius is in the process of building his confidence, and Collin is learning how to deal with defenses focused on him while both of them are learning how to defend. Something we haven't talked about on this board is that Collin has made the transition this season from a poor "clutch time" player in to a fantastic one this season averaging 50.4 points per48 on 65% efg. Darius has also made progress in that area since his rookie season and is averaging 33.1 points per48 on 50% efg this season. We just need to keep more games closer.

Still ... about the only thing the Cavs should be tracking is how many games we've had our intended starting 5 playing and practicing together. Once that's comfortably above 0, we can start deciding how the pieces and parts are progressing towards where they need to eventually get.

I mean seriously, the one constant around Sexland all year is we've been playing Okoro at SF who's generally over-matched on defense and contributing very little on offense. He will turn the corner, and when he does it should make a huge difference.

Good points but I still dont know how this team will function with both Garland/Sexton on the floor together for more than 10+ mins per game. In theory as you stated, it should work--but its a LONG way away from that and its still a gamble if it even works or not.

The easiest and shortest path to success (which might also help each player speed up their development) is to stagger them and bring Sexton off the bench.

Also, because we are hellbent on trying to recreate Dame/McCollum or Lowry/Vanvleet its forcing OTHER guys like you mentioned with Okoro to play out of position and hurt his own growth and timeline. Im just saying, the idea in theory is nice with the possibilities of Garland/Sexton maximizing eachother--but the execution has been horrendous and is hurting the team now and into the future.

Im in the belief of the Cavs need to cut their losses with this dumb 2 undersized PGs experiment and shift this team towards a traditional lineup. The whole reason to play a undersized lineup is to create advantages, but guess what, I have yet to see a game this year where the Cavs undersizedness actually helps them win. If anything, its helping them lose.

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:DG's best game of his career. Also, lol at all the people on the T&T board who insisted Dieng was better than Drummond. If he sticks in the NBA, he's a league minimum guy going forward.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

This is the reason why I will prioritize Garland over Sexton for the longterm. When he is 'on' and is aggressivly hunting his shot with confidence, he is a future All Star. But he is still learning to trust his scoring.

When Garland is acting like the #1 option the offense seems to also play much smoother. Hes so good at driving and finding the right guy whereas Sexton slows the offense down to a crawl when he is the #1 because he ISO scores. Even when Sexton is 'on' the rest of the team might not benefit. Its almost like empty stats.

ALSO--somebodys got to bring it up. Garland/Sexton is turning into Kyrie/Waiters 2.0. The only way I see this team actually growing in the future is if they have that hard conversation with Sexton that his future that best benefits the Cavs is as a 6th man.

Dont do that after one game...maybe if DG can consistently be this guy like Sexton has consistently been that guy than sure you might see a reason to trade Sexton but there is no chance it makes sense for Sexton to be the 6th man at this point that ship has sailed

Stillwater wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:DG's best game of his career. Also, lol at all the people on the T&T board who insisted Dieng was better than Drummond. If he sticks in the NBA, he's a league minimum guy going forward.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

This is the reason why I will prioritize Garland over Sexton for the longterm. When he is 'on' and is aggressivly hunting his shot with confidence, he is a future All Star. But he is still learning to trust his scoring.

When Garland is acting like the #1 option the offense seems to also play much smoother. Hes so good at driving and finding the right guy whereas Sexton slows the offense down to a crawl when he is the #1 because he ISO scores. Even when Sexton is 'on' the rest of the team might not benefit. Its almost like empty stats.

ALSO--somebodys got to bring it up. Garland/Sexton is turning into Kyrie/Waiters 2.0. The only way I see this team actually growing in the future is if they have that hard conversation with Sexton that his future that best benefits the Cavs is as a 6th man.

Dont do that after one game...maybe if DG can consistently be this guy like Sexton has consistently been that guy than sure you might see a reason to trade Sexton but there is no chance it makes sense for Sexton to be the 6th man at this point that ship has sailed

I think a lot of the reason why he was able to be that guy last night is because he finally hunted his shots and put up 20+ while Sexton took what was given to him off ball. That caused the offense to look then best it has looked in over a month. Garland needs to be the lead ball handler and #1 option and Sexton needs to play off of him, not the other way around like it has been all year.

Usually those shot attempts are in reverse.

It's not just about scoring. I don't dislike Sexton but I just don't see anything he does well outside of ISO scoring. When his shot isn't falling, he doesn't bring anything else to the floor. This is his 3rd year and he still hesitates before every pass he makes and the ball stops every time it touches him.

If Garland can add some consistent scoring with his already great playmaking ability he will be a AllStar. It's really just up to him to come into every game as if he is the alpha dog. The team will be better if Garland is the alpha dog like Lillard is and Sexton plays off of him like McCollum does with Lillard. Garland is just too skilled to not have him be the the guy running the show.