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Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM

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Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#1 » by ducler » Fri May 7, 2021 7:55 pm

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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#2 » by Stillwater » Fri May 7, 2021 9:28 pm

Mavs beat Nets last night I don't see them bringing it or taking the Cavs seriously unless the game is close so the Cavs should have to run another 7 -8 man rotation on heavy minutes to have any chance of losing this one. I bet Luka rests or plays limited minutes.Which could make this an unfortunate Cavs victory and a big loss for the final stretch of the tank race
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#3 » by JonFromVA » Fri May 7, 2021 10:09 pm

Dallas will want this win to stay ahead of the Lakers and out of the play-in tourney, and they are not a very good team without Doncic.
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#4 » by Stillwater » Fri May 7, 2021 11:15 pm

Portland and LAL cancel themselves out tonight so one will be tied with Dallas after tonight if Dallas does rest Luka or lacks the legs to get the win.
Dallas has a one game lead on Portland and LAL and has next to no chance of moving up from 5th at this point with Denver at 44 wins to their 38. they play the Cavs twice,Memphis, Pels without Zion , Raptors and finish the season against the Wolves that is one playoff team match up and not a contender one either, so I think they can afford to rest Luka on a back to back like this one. Maybe they don't but they should.
Portland has to play Denver Phoenix Utah SAS and LAL with one give me game against KPJ that will motivate him. They are far more likely to need to be in the play in than Dallas.
Lakers will obviously live and die based on the health of Lebron and AD.But they have games against 3 playoff teams in Portland the Suns and the Knicks by comparison and are also far less likely to be better than Dallas after Dallas loses tonight.
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#5 » by Stillwater » Sat May 8, 2021 12:38 am

well looks like Luka is playing I stand corrected...not smart player management by DAL
but with Wade starting I like our chances to beat this Mavs team unless JBB rolls out the Gleaguers early
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#6 » by Stillwater » Sat May 8, 2021 1:08 am

Or they could shoot like **** overplay dotson and Thomas and load the tank with racing fuel lol another bad version of CEDI game in the works helps the cause
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#7 » by Stillwater » Sat May 8, 2021 1:11 am

Sexton has somehow lost his outside shot pretty fn ugly of late. Hopefully its just the lingering leg issues
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#8 » by Stillwater » Sat May 8, 2021 2:15 am

Nate Hinton sighting. if he doesnt stick in Dallas I would love the Cavs to recruit him this summer
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#9 » by jbk1234 » Sat May 8, 2021 2:45 am

This game was unwatchable. I bailed at halftime.

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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#10 » by Stillwater » Sat May 8, 2021 5:07 am

Cedi ended up getting some buckets and making some plays but he definitely has a issue with icing out Sexton and u would not be surprised if he was the disgruntled vet feeding vardon etc
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#11 » by JonFromVA » Sat May 8, 2021 3:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:This game was unwatchable. I bailed at halftime.


I didn't make it even that far before I started fast forwarding.

We shouldn't have played Love in back to back games. If we knew he wanted to play in Portland we should have sat him against Phoenix. Now his knee is acting up if we can believe the injury report.

I guess I don't understand the Mavs roster and why we can't compete with them. It's not like Doncic was torching us. Props to Carlisle I guess.

We weren't able to get Allen involved offensively. I guess I missed when Willie Caulie-Stein became a defensive juggernaut, and meanwhile Hartenstein has done that thing that new Cavs seem to do looking like Jokic-lite at first and then as he learns our system ends up looking like what I expect from Caulie-Stein.

Hard to find any good news here from the game flows. Collin got to the line alot and kept his efficiency up by scoring 27 on 18 shots (we would have needed a 50pt outburst from him to stay in this one). Isaac was 2 for 4 on his 3pters in a road game where he'd been shooting close to 20%.

We ended up shooting 6-28 on 3pters as a team getting up nearly as many of them as Dallas ... which just goes to show, for most of these guys it's not about the volume. It's that we have inconsistent shooters who struggle on the road and need to be set up for an open shot.

Per usual it's difficult to separate the talent from the coaching and for anybody who felt at least our defense would be better without Garland and Love ... well ... maybe it is? But ... we *only* gave up an offensive rating of 118 to the Mavericks who only had to lean on Luka for 23 minutes before garbage time started. That 118 figure is what the #1 offensive team in the league averages

That short period of time we were one of the best defensive teams is looking more and more like a gimmick fueled by turnovers created by Drummond and Nance, and Allen playing .vs. backups.

So, the tank is on! yay tank ... but the team looks terrible, the coaching looks terrible, and it's hard to believe heads won't roll this Summer.
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#12 » by jbk1234 » Sun May 9, 2021 5:51 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:This game was unwatchable. I bailed at halftime.


I didn't make it even that far before I started fast forwarding.

We shouldn't have played Love in back to back games. If we knew he wanted to play in Portland we should have sat him against Phoenix. Now his knee is acting up if we can believe the injury report.

I guess I don't understand the Mavs roster and why we can't compete with them. It's not like Doncic was torching us. Props to Carlisle I guess.

We weren't able to get Allen involved offensively. I guess I missed when Willie Caulie-Stein became a defensive juggernaut, and meanwhile Hartenstein has done that thing that new Cavs seem to do looking like Jokic-lite at first and then as he learns our system ends up looking like what I expect from Caulie-Stein.

Hard to find any good news here from the game flows. Collin got to the line alot and kept his efficiency up by scoring 27 on 18 shots (we would have needed a 50pt outburst from him to stay in this one). Isaac was 2 for 4 on his 3pters in a road game where he'd been shooting close to 20%.

We ended up shooting 6-28 on 3pters as a team getting up nearly as many of them as Dallas ... which just goes to show, for most of these guys it's not about the volume. It's that we have inconsistent shooters who struggle on the road and need to be set up for an open shot.

Per usual it's difficult to separate the talent from the coaching and for anybody who felt at least our defense would be better without Garland and Love ... well ... maybe it is? But ... we *only* gave up an offensive rating of 118 to the Mavericks who only had to lean on Luka for 23 minutes before garbage time started. That 118 figure is what the #1 offensive team in the league averages

That short period of time we were one of the best defensive teams is looking more and more like a gimmick fueled by turnovers created by Drummond and Nance, and Allen playing .vs. backups.

So, the tank is on! yay tank ... but the team looks terrible, the coaching looks terrible, and it's hard to believe heads won't roll this Summer.
We're not a better defensive team without Garland. Garland at least goes over the pick and defends against the three point shot. Three beats two every time and that's the Cavs fundamental problem.

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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#13 » by JonFromVA » Sun May 9, 2021 6:18 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:This game was unwatchable. I bailed at halftime.


I didn't make it even that far before I started fast forwarding.

We shouldn't have played Love in back to back games. If we knew he wanted to play in Portland we should have sat him against Phoenix. Now his knee is acting up if we can believe the injury report.

I guess I don't understand the Mavs roster and why we can't compete with them. It's not like Doncic was torching us. Props to Carlisle I guess.

We weren't able to get Allen involved offensively. I guess I missed when Willie Caulie-Stein became a defensive juggernaut, and meanwhile Hartenstein has done that thing that new Cavs seem to do looking like Jokic-lite at first and then as he learns our system ends up looking like what I expect from Caulie-Stein.

Hard to find any good news here from the game flows. Collin got to the line alot and kept his efficiency up by scoring 27 on 18 shots (we would have needed a 50pt outburst from him to stay in this one). Isaac was 2 for 4 on his 3pters in a road game where he'd been shooting close to 20%.

We ended up shooting 6-28 on 3pters as a team getting up nearly as many of them as Dallas ... which just goes to show, for most of these guys it's not about the volume. It's that we have inconsistent shooters who struggle on the road and need to be set up for an open shot.

Per usual it's difficult to separate the talent from the coaching and for anybody who felt at least our defense would be better without Garland and Love ... well ... maybe it is? But ... we *only* gave up an offensive rating of 118 to the Mavericks who only had to lean on Luka for 23 minutes before garbage time started. That 118 figure is what the #1 offensive team in the league averages

That short period of time we were one of the best defensive teams is looking more and more like a gimmick fueled by turnovers created by Drummond and Nance, and Allen playing .vs. backups.

So, the tank is on! yay tank ... but the team looks terrible, the coaching looks terrible, and it's hard to believe heads won't roll this Summer.
We're not a better defensive team without Garland. Garland at least goes over the pick and defends against the three point shot. Three beats two every time and that's the Cavs fundamental problem.


Garland tries and may eventually hold his own or better defensively, but obviously we have a taller/stronger lineup without him and a more active lineup without Kevin; but fighting through screens is old school and likely to get our guard's worn down and hurt. Opponents will adjust to a team that's going for steals and exploit the aggressiveness.

Defensive gimmicks

If we had a system it should have held up with players out. Perhaps a casualty of the lack of practice time, but tbd if JBB gets a Covid mulligan.
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#14 » by jbk1234 » Sun May 9, 2021 7:02 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I didn't make it even that far before I started fast forwarding.

We shouldn't have played Love in back to back games. If we knew he wanted to play in Portland we should have sat him against Phoenix. Now his knee is acting up if we can believe the injury report.

I guess I don't understand the Mavs roster and why we can't compete with them. It's not like Doncic was torching us. Props to Carlisle I guess.

We weren't able to get Allen involved offensively. I guess I missed when Willie Caulie-Stein became a defensive juggernaut, and meanwhile Hartenstein has done that thing that new Cavs seem to do looking like Jokic-lite at first and then as he learns our system ends up looking like what I expect from Caulie-Stein.

Hard to find any good news here from the game flows. Collin got to the line alot and kept his efficiency up by scoring 27 on 18 shots (we would have needed a 50pt outburst from him to stay in this one). Isaac was 2 for 4 on his 3pters in a road game where he'd been shooting close to 20%.

We ended up shooting 6-28 on 3pters as a team getting up nearly as many of them as Dallas ... which just goes to show, for most of these guys it's not about the volume. It's that we have inconsistent shooters who struggle on the road and need to be set up for an open shot.

Per usual it's difficult to separate the talent from the coaching and for anybody who felt at least our defense would be better without Garland and Love ... well ... maybe it is? But ... we *only* gave up an offensive rating of 118 to the Mavericks who only had to lean on Luka for 23 minutes before garbage time started. That 118 figure is what the #1 offensive team in the league averages

That short period of time we were one of the best defensive teams is looking more and more like a gimmick fueled by turnovers created by Drummond and Nance, and Allen playing .vs. backups.

So, the tank is on! yay tank ... but the team looks terrible, the coaching looks terrible, and it's hard to believe heads won't roll this Summer.
We're not a better defensive team without Garland. Garland at least goes over the pick and defends against the three point shot. Three beats two every time and that's the Cavs fundamental problem.


Garland tries and may eventually hold his own or better defensively, but obviously we have a taller/stronger lineup without him and a more active lineup without Kevin; but fighting through screens is old school and likely to get our guard's worn down and hurt. Opponents will adjust to a team that's going for steals and exploit the aggressiveness.

Defensive gimmicks

If we had a system it should have held up with players out. Perhaps a casualty of the lack of practice time, but tbd if JBB gets a Covid mulligan.
I mean if the point is that Love, Garland, and Sexton is one, or even two, too many bad defenders in a starting unit, then you'll get no argument from me. But Garland is best defender of the three and it's not particularly close.

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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#15 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 10, 2021 2:57 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:We're not a better defensive team without Garland. Garland at least goes over the pick and defends against the three point shot. Three beats two every time and that's the Cavs fundamental problem.


Garland tries and may eventually hold his own or better defensively, but obviously we have a taller/stronger lineup without him and a more active lineup without Kevin; but fighting through screens is old school and likely to get our guard's worn down and hurt. Opponents will adjust to a team that's going for steals and exploit the aggressiveness.

Defensive gimmicks

If we had a system it should have held up with players out. Perhaps a casualty of the lack of practice time, but tbd if JBB gets a Covid mulligan.
I mean if the point is that Love, Garland, and Sexton is one, or even two, too many bad defenders in a starting unit, then you'll get no argument from me. But Garland is best defender of the three and it's not particularly close.


My point is our defensive problems have little to do with starting a pair of 6'2" guards, and mostly to do with a whole lot of other things; and unfortunately putting a 7-footer who can block and contest shots in the middle and adding a defensive wing doesn't solve all those other problems.

At this point, the Cavs net rating as a team (-8.7) is actually worse than last season.
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#16 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:06 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Garland tries and may eventually hold his own or better defensively, but obviously we have a taller/stronger lineup without him and a more active lineup without Kevin; but fighting through screens is old school and likely to get our guard's worn down and hurt. Opponents will adjust to a team that's going for steals and exploit the aggressiveness.

Defensive gimmicks

If we had a system it should have held up with players out. Perhaps a casualty of the lack of practice time, but tbd if JBB gets a Covid mulligan.
I mean if the point is that Love, Garland, and Sexton is one, or even two, too many bad defenders in a starting unit, then you'll get no argument from me. But Garland is best defender of the three and it's not particularly close.


My point is our defensive problems have little to do with starting a pair of 6'2" guards, and mostly to do with a whole lot of other things; and unfortunately putting a 7-footer who can block and contest shots in the middle and adding a defensive wing doesn't solve all those other problems.

At this point, the Cavs net rating as a team (-8.7) is actually worse than last season.


I strongly disagree with this. The Cavs are second to last in opponents 3point % in the NBA (which pairs nicely with our second to last status in terms of made threes). The problem is we're not contesting on the perimeter. Now there are things you can't control, like height or standing reach, and there are things you can control like going over picks, rotating over to the open shooter (if you've just given up defending the PNR once the roll man gets the ball), or getting your lazy *** out there to contest. Also, in terms of team defense, you can stop fake "showing" off a shooter when you're not really "helping" double a guy anyway. Sexton and Love are awful at all of these things.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#17 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 10, 2021 3:19 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I mean if the point is that Love, Garland, and Sexton is one, or even two, too many bad defenders in a starting unit, then you'll get no argument from me. But Garland is best defender of the three and it's not particularly close.


My point is our defensive problems have little to do with starting a pair of 6'2" guards, and mostly to do with a whole lot of other things; and unfortunately putting a 7-footer who can block and contest shots in the middle and adding a defensive wing doesn't solve all those other problems.

At this point, the Cavs net rating as a team (-8.7) is actually worse than last season.


I strongly disagree with this. The Cavs are second to last in opponents 3point % in the NBA (which pairs nicely with our second to last status in terms of made threes). The problem is we're not contesting on the perimeter. Now there are things you can't control, like height or standing reach, and there are things you can control like going over picks, rotating over to the open shooter (if you've just given up defending the PNR once the roll man gets the ball), or getting your lazy *** out there to contest. Also, in terms of team defense, you can stop fake "showing" off a shooter when you're not really "helping" double a guy anyway. Sexton and Love are awful at all of these things.


That sounds like a whole lot of "other things" you brought up.
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Re: Game 67 : Cleveland Cavaliers (21-45) @ Dallas Mavericks (38-28) - 8:30PM 

Post#18 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:49 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
My point is our defensive problems have little to do with starting a pair of 6'2" guards, and mostly to do with a whole lot of other things; and unfortunately putting a 7-footer who can block and contest shots in the middle and adding a defensive wing doesn't solve all those other problems.

At this point, the Cavs net rating as a team (-8.7) is actually worse than last season.


I strongly disagree with this. The Cavs are second to last in opponents 3point % in the NBA (which pairs nicely with our second to last status in terms of made threes). The problem is we're not contesting on the perimeter. Now there are things you can't control, like height or standing reach, and there are things you can control like going over picks, rotating over to the open shooter (if you've just given up defending the PNR once the roll man gets the ball), or getting your lazy *** out there to contest. Also, in terms of team defense, you can stop fake "showing" off a shooter when you're not really "helping" double a guy anyway. Sexton and Love are awful at all of these things.


That sounds like a whole lot of "other things" you brought up.


Fundamentally, I don't think you can hide three poor defenders in a starting unit. I don't think Sexton or Love are changing in terms of effort on that end which only exacerbates their starting points. Both of Portland's guards shoot well from three point range and shoot a lot from out there. They also go over picks and defend the perimeter at replacement level. Could the Cavs force the action into the inside now that they have Allen with a new defensive scheme? Yes, they can and should. But ideally, Garland is the worst defender in the starting unit not the third best.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

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