ImageImageImage

Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM

Moderator: jbk1234

ducler
Cold Hard Gameday Facts
Posts: 13,304
And1: 8,375
Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Location: France
Contact:
   

Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#1 » by ducler » Sun May 9, 2021 8:22 pm

Read on Twitter
Image
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 15,105
And1: 3,593
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#2 » by Stillwater » Sun May 9, 2021 8:58 pm

https://cavaliersnation.com/2021/05/08/report-unnamed-former-cavs-player-claims-that-most-players-would-welcome-a-trade-for-sure/
WTF with these media stories lately acting as if any losing team doesn't have problems.
Or maybe its not that bad because the Cavs org says everything is cool smh.
I think it has to be true that players want to win and are frustrated but I don't believe anyone would welcome a trade that isnt named Cedi Osman or Kevin Love unless the org has flat out told them they are tanking
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#3 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 12:15 am

It wouldn't surprise me if every single member of the team except for Sexton, Okoro, and maybe Nance Jr., would welcome a trade tbh. The reality is that there are only three guys I would be reluctant to trade, because at a certain point, after everyone is done complaining about the F.O. and coaching staff, the players play and ours aren't all that great.

We're the second worst three point shooting team in the NBA and you're not going to win if you can't shoot in this league. Even the Raptors, who are far better at defending the three point shot than us, will probably miss the playoffs.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
tundraknight
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,561
And1: 3,271
Joined: Sep 29, 2008

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#4 » by tundraknight » Mon May 10, 2021 12:37 am

Wow they really ejected Luka Doncic?

If this causes the Cavaliers to make a comeback win I’m going to vomit.

And why are we playing Sexton heavy minutes every game at the end of this season acting like we’re in the playoff race?

All that does is risk injury in meaningless games and give us a better chance of messing up our lottery positioning.
tundraknight
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,561
And1: 3,271
Joined: Sep 29, 2008

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#5 » by tundraknight » Mon May 10, 2021 12:39 am

The Double Fro - Varejao and Allen Front Court Combo is fun to watch :lol:
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#6 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 12:45 am

tundraknight wrote:Wow they really ejected Luka Doncic?

If this causes the Cavaliers to make a comeback win I’m going to vomit.

And why are we playing Sexton heavy minutes every game at the end of this season acting like we’re in the playoff race?

All that does is risk injury in meaningless games and give us a better chance of messing up our lottery positioning.
Might as well let him put up big numbers in meaningless games and hope it gets some team to make a solid offer this summer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#7 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 am

tundraknight wrote:The Double Fro - Varejao and Allen Front Court Combo is fun to watch
Playing AV before garbage time is such an obvious tanking move. He looked washed five years ago and he's not even in NBA shape.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 15,105
And1: 3,593
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#8 » by Stillwater » Mon May 10, 2021 1:58 am

jbk1234 wrote:
tundraknight wrote:Wow they really ejected Luka Doncic?

If this causes the Cavaliers to make a comeback win I’m going to vomit.

And why are we playing Sexton heavy minutes every game at the end of this season acting like we’re in the playoff race?

All that does is risk injury in meaningless games and give us a better chance of messing up our lottery positioning.
Might as well let him put up big numbers in meaningless games and hope it gets some team to make a solid offer this summer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

based on the majority of Cavs fans I know anyway your desire to trade Sexton is the minority preference.
I think it is possible they get impatient and think they can shuffle young core players for picks or better fitting ones with DG to try to fast forward the rebuild for example but that would require them to be willing to take 2 steps back in whatever deal they did because moving Sexton is not likely going to get them much of anything in a trade knowing he will have to be paid and for most teams that dont have a big pg would be inviting the same issues. No I think if anything DG is easily moved on draft night for a lottery pick and for all I care he should be so we can get past all this Klutch bs.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#9 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 2:51 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
tundraknight wrote:Wow they really ejected Luka Doncic?

If this causes the Cavaliers to make a comeback win I’m going to vomit.

And why are we playing Sexton heavy minutes every game at the end of this season acting like we’re in the playoff race?

All that does is risk injury in meaningless games and give us a better chance of messing up our lottery positioning.
Might as well let him put up big numbers in meaningless games and hope it gets some team to make a solid offer this summer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

based on the majority of Cavs fans I know anyway your desire to trade Sexton is the minority preference.
I think it is possible they get impatient and think they can shuffle young core players for picks or better fitting ones with DG to try to fast forward the rebuild for example but that would require them to be willing to take 2 steps back in whatever deal they did because moving Sexton is not likely going to get them much of anything in a trade knowing he will have to be paid and for most teams that dont have a big pg would be inviting the same issues. No I think if anything DG is easily moved on draft night for a lottery pick and for all I care he should be so we can get past all this Klutch bs.
I don't know what Klutch has to do with the Cavs current problems. The reality is that guys will tolerate playing alongside high usage guards getting theirs while playing atrocious defense if the team is winning. But nobody likes doing so after three years of 20 point losses.

I've seen enough. I'd trade him while he's still on a rookie contract. There's no practical way to get Lonzo Ball. Ben Simmons would be really expensive to acquire and our outside shooting would be even worse. The Cavs could waste the next five years taking Ls trying to build a team of perfectly complimentary players around him as a starter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 15,105
And1: 3,593
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#10 » by Stillwater » Mon May 10, 2021 3:11 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Might as well let him put up big numbers in meaningless games and hope it gets some team to make a solid offer this summer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

based on the majority of Cavs fans I know anyway your desire to trade Sexton is the minority preference.
I think it is possible they get impatient and think they can shuffle young core players for picks or better fitting ones with DG to try to fast forward the rebuild for example but that would require them to be willing to take 2 steps back in whatever deal they did because moving Sexton is not likely going to get them much of anything in a trade knowing he will have to be paid and for most teams that dont have a big pg would be inviting the same issues. No I think if anything DG is easily moved on draft night for a lottery pick and for all I care he should be so we can get past all this Klutch bs.
I don't know what Klutch has to do with the Cavs current problems. The reality is that guys will tolerate playing alongside high usage guards getting theirs while playing atrocious defense if the team is winning. But nobody likes doing so after three years of 20 point losses.

I've seen enough. I'd trade him while he's still on a rookie contract. There's no practical way to get Lonzo Ball. Ben Simmons would be really expensive to acquire and our outside shooting would be even worse. The Cavs could waste the next five years taking Ls trying to build a team of perfectly complimentary players around him as a starter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Or they can pay him 6th man extension $ and if they can upgrade the sg position in the draft so be it, but if they can upgrade DG in the draft and keep Sexton in the sl I am all for that.
Sexton is not playing atrocious defense. Any attempt to claim he does not is based on lack of effort now that the season is lost
One thing for sure is DG being with Klutch will want a max or bail even if they still suck and there is no chance they should give it too him if they are still losing and without a first option all star lock rookie from this draft at that point
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#11 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:24 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:based on the majority of Cavs fans I know anyway your desire to trade Sexton is the minority preference.
I think it is possible they get impatient and think they can shuffle young core players for picks or better fitting ones with DG to try to fast forward the rebuild for example but that would require them to be willing to take 2 steps back in whatever deal they did because moving Sexton is not likely going to get them much of anything in a trade knowing he will have to be paid and for most teams that dont have a big pg would be inviting the same issues. No I think if anything DG is easily moved on draft night for a lottery pick and for all I care he should be so we can get past all this Klutch bs.
I don't know what Klutch has to do with the Cavs current problems. The reality is that guys will tolerate playing alongside high usage guards getting theirs while playing atrocious defense if the team is winning. But nobody likes doing so after three years of 20 point losses.

I've seen enough. I'd trade him while he's still on a rookie contract. There's no practical way to get Lonzo Ball. Ben Simmons would be really expensive to acquire and our outside shooting would be even worse. The Cavs could waste the next five years taking Ls trying to build a team of perfectly complimentary players around him as a starter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Or they can pay him 6th man extension $ and if they can upgrade the sg position in the draft so be it, but if they can upgrade DG in the draft and keep Sexton in the sl I am all for that.
Sexton is not playing atrocious defense. Any attempt to claim he does not is based on lack of effort now that the season is lost
There isn't a PG who is an upgrade over Garland in this draft, nor is there the unicorn type running mate for Sexton. I doubt Sexton moves to a sixth man role without complaint and I'm all but certain he doesn't extend early for sixth man money. This summer is the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 15,105
And1: 3,593
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#12 » by Stillwater » Mon May 10, 2021 4:01 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I don't know what Klutch has to do with the Cavs current problems. The reality is that guys will tolerate playing alongside high usage guards getting theirs while playing atrocious defense if the team is winning. But nobody likes doing so after three years of 20 point losses.

I've seen enough. I'd trade him while he's still on a rookie contract. There's no practical way to get Lonzo Ball. Ben Simmons would be really expensive to acquire and our outside shooting would be even worse. The Cavs could waste the next five years taking Ls trying to build a team of perfectly complimentary players around him as a starter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Or they can pay him 6th man extension $ and if they can upgrade the sg position in the draft so be it, but if they can upgrade DG in the draft and keep Sexton in the sl I am all for that.
Sexton is not playing atrocious defense. Any attempt to claim he does not is based on lack of effort now that the season is lost
There isn't a PG who is an upgrade over Garland in this draft, nor is there the unicorn type running mate for Sexton. I doubt Sexton moves to a sixth man role without complaint and I'm all but certain he doesn't extend early for sixth man money. This summer is the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

not proven, but I would bet Suggs is far more productive in his first season that DG was
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#13 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 4:15 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Or they can pay him 6th man extension $ and if they can upgrade the sg position in the draft so be it, but if they can upgrade DG in the draft and keep Sexton in the sl I am all for that.
Sexton is not playing atrocious defense. Any attempt to claim he does not is based on lack of effort now that the season is lost
There isn't a PG who is an upgrade over Garland in this draft, nor is there the unicorn type running mate for Sexton. I doubt Sexton moves to a sixth man role without complaint and I'm all but certain he doesn't extend early for sixth man money. This summer is the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

not proven, but I would bet Suggs is far more productive in his first season that DG was
Who cares about their first year? Who is going to have the better career? Suggs won't be better his first year than Garland was his second on the Cavs. I'd bet all the money I have on that outcome.

Suggs played on the best three point shooting team in college basketball. Garland plays on the second worst three point shooting team in the NBA. Suggs will not be better defensively his rookie season than Garland was this year. I would seriously question not only the front office's competence, but their sanity if they did this.

It's not just that we disagree on player evaluations. We disagree on the fundamental problems the Cavs have. I think they're losing because they're trading two points for three points on way too many possessions. You want to burn a top 5 pick on another undersized guard and replace the best three point shooter on the roster.

It's just nuts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 7,563
And1: 2,262
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#14 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 10, 2021 3:16 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I don't know what Klutch has to do with the Cavs current problems. The reality is that guys will tolerate playing alongside high usage guards getting theirs while playing atrocious defense if the team is winning. But nobody likes doing so after three years of 20 point losses.

I've seen enough. I'd trade him while he's still on a rookie contract. There's no practical way to get Lonzo Ball. Ben Simmons would be really expensive to acquire and our outside shooting would be even worse. The Cavs could waste the next five years taking Ls trying to build a team of perfectly complimentary players around him as a starter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Or they can pay him 6th man extension $ and if they can upgrade the sg position in the draft so be it, but if they can upgrade DG in the draft and keep Sexton in the sl I am all for that.
Sexton is not playing atrocious defense. Any attempt to claim he does not is based on lack of effort now that the season is lost
There isn't a PG who is an upgrade over Garland in this draft, nor is there the unicorn type running mate for Sexton. I doubt Sexton moves to a sixth man role without complaint and I'm all but certain he doesn't extend early for sixth man money. This summer is the time.


If we want to move on from Sexton immediately, then by all means we should trade him before we need to extend him; but I don't see us getting a reasonable return for him at this time. If you love THT on the Lakers, I'm sure they'd entertain swapping him for Sexton.

But if THT was literally our best offer, I'd be fine with letting things play out and losing Collin for nothing if we don't like how his extension talks go.

But hey, let's see where we land in the lottery.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#15 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:53 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Or they can pay him 6th man extension $ and if they can upgrade the sg position in the draft so be it, but if they can upgrade DG in the draft and keep Sexton in the sl I am all for that.
Sexton is not playing atrocious defense. Any attempt to claim he does not is based on lack of effort now that the season is lost
There isn't a PG who is an upgrade over Garland in this draft, nor is there the unicorn type running mate for Sexton. I doubt Sexton moves to a sixth man role without complaint and I'm all but certain he doesn't extend early for sixth man money. This summer is the time.


If we want to move on from Sexton immediately, then by all means we should trade him before we need to extend him; but I don't see us getting a reasonable return for him at this time. If you love THT on the Lakers, I'm sure they'd entertain swapping him for Sexton.

But if THT was literally our best offer, I'd be fine with letting things play out and losing Collin for nothing if we don't like how his extension talks go.

But hey, let's see where we land in the lottery.


I think there are a number of teams who need guys who can create their own shot off the dribble and will be enticed by Sexton's PPG and overall efficiency. It won't be hard to talk themselves into the idea that they're buying low and the Cavs are a poorly run organization. But if I'm wrong, then there's absolutely no reason to extend him. If you can't get decent value for him on a rookie contract, then that should inform you as to what his market would be as a RFA.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 15,105
And1: 3,593
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#16 » by Stillwater » Mon May 10, 2021 4:19 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:There isn't a PG who is an upgrade over Garland in this draft, nor is there the unicorn type running mate for Sexton. I doubt Sexton moves to a sixth man role without complaint and I'm all but certain he doesn't extend early for sixth man money. This summer is the time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

not proven, but I would bet Suggs is far more productive in his first season that DG was
Who cares about their first year? Who is going to have the better career? Suggs won't be better his first year than Garland was his second on the Cavs. I'd bet all the money I have on that outcome.

Suggs played on the best three point shooting team in college basketball. Garland plays on the second worst three point shooting team in the NBA. Suggs will not be better defensively his rookie season than Garland was this year. I would seriously question not only the front office's competence, but their sanity if they did this.

It's not just that we disagree on player evaluations. We disagree on the fundamental problems the Cavs have. I think they're losing because they're trading two points for three points on way too many possessions. You want to burn a top 5 pick on another undersized guard and replace the best three point shooter on the roster.

It's just nuts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

There is nothing nuts about accepting that Sexland is dead and you want to trade the better player
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#17 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 4:43 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:not proven, but I would bet Suggs is far more productive in his first season that DG was
Who cares about their first year? Who is going to have the better career? Suggs won't be better his first year than Garland was his second on the Cavs. I'd bet all the money I have on that outcome.

Suggs played on the best three point shooting team in college basketball. Garland plays on the second worst three point shooting team in the NBA. Suggs will not be better defensively his rookie season than Garland was this year. I would seriously question not only the front office's competence, but their sanity if they did this.

It's not just that we disagree on player evaluations. We disagree on the fundamental problems the Cavs have. I think they're losing because they're trading two points for three points on way too many possessions. You want to burn a top 5 pick on another undersized guard and replace the best three point shooter on the roster.

It's just nuts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

There is nothing nuts about accepting that Sexland is dead and you want to trade the better player


He's not the better player. He scores more due to the fact that he shoots a lot more. That's it. He has a worse defensive rating in his third year than Garland has in his second year. He shoots a lower % from 3 point range on fewer attempts. He averages fewer assists.

The Cavs are 29th out of 30 teams in terms of made three point shots. They're 29th out of 30 teams in terms of opponent's 3point %. That needs to be fixed. Trading two for three gets you beat. It's a simple function of math. Love is moving to the bench or getting bought out. You trade Garland as well and you're probably finishing 30th out of 30 teams in made three point shots.

I'd rather not waste a half a decade trying to build around Sexton while taking Ls on trades trying to reshape the roster. Even if you got the Sixers to trade Simmons for a reasonable return, every other starter on the roster would need to be a good three point shooter. Oh, and at least two of them would need to be good defenders because you're always going to be hiding Sexton on defense. Alonzo Ball is a RFA and he's not signing a new deal to come here. Outside of Nance, who may or may not be reliably available due to Chrone's, we don't presently have a single piece on the roster to make it work with him.

Extending him early would be a really bad idea for the Cavs. He should, at least, show next season that he's capable of playing replacement level defense before he gets paid. He's not going to like that and frankly I'm becoming pretty skeptical that he'll ever do it even with dollars being dangled in front of him. We should not start next season waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's hard enough to rebuild properly without the drama.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 15,105
And1: 3,593
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#18 » by Stillwater » Mon May 10, 2021 5:42 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Who cares about their first year? Who is going to have the better career? Suggs won't be better his first year than Garland was his second on the Cavs. I'd bet all the money I have on that outcome.

Suggs played on the best three point shooting team in college basketball. Garland plays on the second worst three point shooting team in the NBA. Suggs will not be better defensively his rookie season than Garland was this year. I would seriously question not only the front office's competence, but their sanity if they did this.

It's not just that we disagree on player evaluations. We disagree on the fundamental problems the Cavs have. I think they're losing because they're trading two points for three points on way too many possessions. You want to burn a top 5 pick on another undersized guard and replace the best three point shooter on the roster.

It's just nuts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

There is nothing nuts about accepting that Sexland is dead and you want to trade the better player


He's not the better player. He scores more due to the fact that he shoots a lot more. That's it. He has a worse defensive rating in his third year than Garland has in his second year. He shoots a lower % from 3 point range on fewer attempts. He averages fewer assists.

The Cavs are 29th out of 30 teams in terms of made three point shots. They're 29th out of 30 teams in terms of opponent's 3point %. That needs to be fixed. Trading two for three gets you beat. It's a simple function of math. Love is moving to the bench or getting bought out. You trade Garland as well and you're probably finishing 30th out of 30 teams in made three point shots.

I'd rather not waste a half a decade trying to build around Sexton while taking Ls on trades trying to reshape the roster. Even if you got the Sixers to trade Simmons for a reasonable return, every other starter on the roster would need to be a good three point shooter. Oh, and at least two of them would need to be good defenders because you're always going to be hiding Sexton on defense. Alonzo Ball is a RFA and he's not signing a new deal to come here. Outside of Nance, who may or may not be reliably available due to Chrone's, we don't presently have a single piece on the roster to make it work with him.

Extending him early would be a really bad idea for the Cavs. He should, at least, show next season that he's capable of playing replacement level defense before he gets paid. He's not going to like that and frankly I'm becoming pretty skeptical that he'll ever do it even with dollars being dangled in front of him. We should not start next season waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's hard enough to rebuild properly without the drama.

yes he is and it isnt even close
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 7,563
And1: 2,262
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#19 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 10, 2021 6:36 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:There isn't a PG who is an upgrade over Garland in this draft, nor is there the unicorn type running mate for Sexton. I doubt Sexton moves to a sixth man role without complaint and I'm all but certain he doesn't extend early for sixth man money. This summer is the time.


If we want to move on from Sexton immediately, then by all means we should trade him before we need to extend him; but I don't see us getting a reasonable return for him at this time. If you love THT on the Lakers, I'm sure they'd entertain swapping him for Sexton.

But if THT was literally our best offer, I'd be fine with letting things play out and losing Collin for nothing if we don't like how his extension talks go.

But hey, let's see where we land in the lottery.


I think there are a number of teams who need guys who can create their own shot off the dribble and will be enticed by Sexton's PPG and overall efficiency. It won't be hard to talk themselves into the idea that they're buying low and the Cavs are a poorly run organization. But if I'm wrong, then there's absolutely no reason to extend him. If you can't get decent value for him on a rookie contract, then that should inform you as to what his market would be as a RFA.


I'm just not interesting in selling low on any of our young players. I'd rather see what they can become with a better constructed team, some continuity, and some more experience.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 42,410
And1: 24,346
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Game 68: Dallas Mavericks (39-28) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (21-46) - 7.30PM 

Post#20 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 10, 2021 6:45 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
If we want to move on from Sexton immediately, then by all means we should trade him before we need to extend him; but I don't see us getting a reasonable return for him at this time. If you love THT on the Lakers, I'm sure they'd entertain swapping him for Sexton.

But if THT was literally our best offer, I'd be fine with letting things play out and losing Collin for nothing if we don't like how his extension talks go.

But hey, let's see where we land in the lottery.


I think there are a number of teams who need guys who can create their own shot off the dribble and will be enticed by Sexton's PPG and overall efficiency. It won't be hard to talk themselves into the idea that they're buying low and the Cavs are a poorly run organization. But if I'm wrong, then there's absolutely no reason to extend him. If you can't get decent value for him on a rookie contract, then that should inform you as to what his market would be as a RFA.


I'm just not interesting in selling low on any of our young players. I'd rather see what they can become with a better constructed team, some continuity, and some more experience.


I'm not talking about trading him for a late first here. But, if the Cavs decide to hold onto him, then they better be prepared for it to get uncomfortable when they don't extend him early because his number is a ways off from theirs. They better be prepared for it to get uncomfortable if they conclude the team is better off with him coming off the bench. Collin has played three full years in the NBA, missed very few games and started in almost every game he's played. Along with a whole bunch of losing, in games that haven't been particularly close, he's been the constant. At some point, Sexton as a starter needs to become a variable.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers