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Cavs 2020-21 Season report card

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Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#1 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 17, 2021 4:48 pm

This was a particularly frustrating season because while there was internal growth from players individually, and I agreed with both trades that were made, the team as a whole didn't improve overall. Some of that is due to injuries and roster imbalance, but not all of it.

The front office: C+.

Draft: I'm willing to give them an incomplete on Okoro mostly because of the last third of the season. I don't know if he ever gets to Jimmy Butler status, let alone Kawai Leonard status, but you can talk yourself into a scenario where he's working on his shot in the offseason and there's a lot of growth between now and then end of his third year in the league. He seems to be a hard worker and his three point percentage ticked up a bit after the all star break. But to my eye, he's shorter than advertised and it's he's probably going to surrender height most nights at SF.

Trades: I'm going to give him a B. Both the Allen and McGee trades were clear Ws. Hartenstein was basically a salary throw in and if the Cavs are smart, they're going to try to lock him into a team-friendly role for multiple years. You make the Allen trade every day of the week and twice on Sundays. But, we went without an NBA caliber backup PG for the entire season and it hurt the team. We couldn't have gotten Austin Rivers for a second round pick? I personally wrote the current team off as not good enough after that West Coast trip. If Altman did the same thing and decided the pick was more important, okay then, I probably move that grade up.

Personnel management: Unlike some fans, I don't put most of the blame for the KPJ situation on Altman here. The Cavs gave that young man many, many chances and the fact that they could only get cap space for him tells you that whatever his issues are, most teams in the NBA didn't want to deal with them regardless of what potential he may have. The Cavs have a young roster and you can't have guys contaminating the mindset of the other players in that locker room. We'll see how it all plays out, but I can't fault Altman for saying enough. With Drummond, it's another players-have-a-say-in-how-things-work-out situation. If Drummond was unhappy with his minutes before the demotion, and was bucking at the idea of coming off the bench in a contract year, then there was nothing to be done. The reality is that Drummond's value on the court is really matchup and/or effort dependent. He turned into a pretty big liability on that West Coast trip before he was demoted.

FA: Other teams are able to find diamonds in the rough out of the G League. Statistically speaking, the odds aren't great. Most guys revert to their mean with more floor time, e.g., Dotson. That said, this is the third year where the Cavs have been giving G League guys major minutes and if there's one who's a definite keeper, I'm not seeing it.

Coaching: C-
The Cavs were 29th, out of 30 teams, in BOTH made 3s and opponents 3% percentage. That's an L. Three points beats two points every time.

Coaches can't do anything about the ER unit we were running at PF and a lot of 3 point production came from guys like Prince, Love, Nance... who missed who swaths of the season. The difference between a player like Wade being second or third string is going to be his 3 point percentage. The Cavs got nothing, zip, nada from backup PG in terms of made threes. That's on the F.O.

But, Sexton and Garland should both be averaging six three point attempts a night and neither hit that mark. I know they were asked to take more, but sometimes coaches need to force the issue. There were still too many times when the Cavs forced the action inside, and frankly, our offense is still too predictable for my taste. That really shows up in the final minutes of the 4th quarter. Also, that ridiculous three point shot where Cedi throws up a turn around curl after a dead sprint went on for way, way too long. He had the biggest drop in three point percentage on the team.

The opponents three point % bugs me the most though. Once we had Allen, you err on the side of allowing your guy to drive and you get over that pick. You don't show off of three point shooters. We're already undersized 1-3 and once an opposing shooter starts feeling it, it's already too late. Don't help them out by being lazy/dumb. That needed to be fixed early, and at least with some players, it never got fixed at all.

Starters: C

Garland showed the most improvement to me on both sides of the ball. I think he can easily average 8 assists per game on a team that knock down open threes. He was going over picks at the end of the season. He edged out Sexton in terms of defensive rating and that was at the end of his second year.

Sexton showed real improvement in terms of assists and getting his teammates involved. That was encouraging. You still have possessions where everyone in the building knows he not going to pass, but he's managed to make the offense a little less predictable when he's the primary ballhandler. Unfortunately, he regressed defensively. In addition to refusing to go over picks, he just gives up on the PNR altogether when our big shows on the ball handler. That can't happen. At a minimum, he needs to rotate over to another shooter at the three point line so the Cavs can start rotating early and the corner man can pinch down to help at the rim. Also, he plays the dumbest help defense I've ever seen where he's essentially guarding space while leaving his man open for a three point shot. Personally, I think this is a conversation the Cavs need to have with the young man and they need to see improvement there before extending him.

Okoro, like Sexton and Garland before him, was not ready to start on day one. He's an aggressive defender who got the rookie treatment from the officials and that didn't help. The problem is that he had only Cedi behind him and Cedi had the worst season of his career. The Cavs need to decide whether they've at least arrived at a point in the rebuild where they no longer have to force feed rookies unearned minutes. It impacts the entire starting unit. There's nothing wrong with bringing guys along off the bench their first year, or even their first two years in the NBA. There's a long list of really good NBA players who didn't start right away. We knew Okoro would have to improve his jumper when we drafted him. That still hasn't changed.

Love. The situation is what it is. Even if injuries aren't a player's fault, and that's only true inasmuch as conditioning plays no part in injuries, habitually injured players shouldn't be relied on as starters. Unless Love shows up to training camp looking like he discovered the fountain of youth, Nance should start next season. Maybe Love can start situationally to spell Nance some. Split the minutes evenly and see if that type of load management produces better results for both players. But Love, like Sexton, is a big part of the problem with opponent's three point %.

Allen. I'm good. He's a keeper. I like him as player who is involved in the offense more than a player who is the focal point of the offense. Too often it's too easy for the guards to default to throw it up there and let him get a bucket. The ball needs to move more than that. That's pretty picky on my part though. He gets shoved around too much without a whistle but there are things the Cavs can do to remedy that. You can get the officials to tighten up their whistles. You just have to be willing to force the issue.

The bench: Disaster pants.

This was the glaring weakness for this team. Cedi and Windler were awful from three point range. Wade is presently too inconsistent from 3 to be a second unit player (although he's better defensively than I anticipated). Prince had his vintage good month and went back to being too streaky (some of that could've been him playing please-get-me-out-of-here ball ahead of the deadline). We didn't have an NBA caliber backup PG on the roster and I see no need to belabor that point. Hartenstein was the only silver lining.

Basically, the Cavs need to go out and get a legit backup PG this offseason and there's about five or six guys who need to really work on their three point shots this offseason. If there's no improvement in that area, they're in danger of getting demoted or even released outright.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#2 » by Stillwater » Mon May 17, 2021 5:00 pm

F minus mothr fkrs :lol:
no they had a rough season but Jfro and Hartenstein and even Kabengele are all good pick ups.
now they need to get rid of the fake Steph boy toy and draft a legit nba level athlete to be their point guard
but they aint got the nads
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#3 » by jbk1234 » Mon May 17, 2021 5:29 pm

Stillwater wrote:F minus mothr fkrs :lol:
no they had a rough season but Jfro and Hartenstein and even Kabengele are all good pick ups.
now they need to get rid of the fake Steph boy toy and draft a legit nba level athlete to be their point guard
but they aint got the nads


Maybe we can rid of all our good three point shooters, replace them with *athletes*, come in dead last in the NBA in 3 point shooting, and be legends. Really lean into it. See if you can make the difference between the Cavs at 30th and the next team at 29th double digits.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#4 » by Stillwater » Mon May 17, 2021 5:56 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:F minus mothr fkrs :lol:
no they had a rough season but Jfro and Hartenstein and even Kabengele are all good pick ups.
now they need to get rid of the fake Steph boy toy and draft a legit nba level athlete to be their point guard
but they aint got the nads


Maybe we can rid of all our good three point shooters, replace them with *athletes*, come in dead last in the NBA in 3 point shooting, and be legends. Really lean into it. See if you can make the difference between the Cavs at 30th and the next team at 29th double digits.
I will take the guy with the things you cannot teach height weight speed etc and develop them over the guy built like my sister with the same hops and lack of upside but has plenty of skills.
Ideally you want the guy with both skill and the athleticism which is what Suggs is and there is no way his shot is not the same level of % at the end of his 2nd season.Besides they have enough 3 point shooters they just never play
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#5 » by JonFromVA » Mon May 17, 2021 8:37 pm

Nice write up. I could quibble here and there and for the most part I already have over the months, lol.

So, I'll just take the opportunity to bang my drum and emphasize that a number of the things wrong with this team can be solved with proper floor spacing and a competent backup PG.

Unclog the paint, get Garland and Sexton room to drive, and JBB could sit on his hands and the offense would look a ton better.

Isaac really needs to step up his 3pt shooting, but I'm not convinced that's enough. We really need Kevin or someone who can bring similar spacing.

It looked like Collin was going to finish the season with his first positive net +/- figure but the prolonged period without either Garland/Exum/Delly wrecked that. He finished at -1.9 while Garland shot up and finished at +3.9.

For now we still need both Garland and Sexton.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#6 » by JonFromVA » Fri May 21, 2021 10:48 pm

I suspect if you're looking for an elite shooter, you really want to target players who shot 40% 3pt in College and 85% on their free throws. Otherwise it's a mixed bag. Some players have gone from bad to good really fast while others struggle with it throughout their career.

Just another reason I'll be very happy if we get the chance to draft Cade Cunningham even if his first step is mediocre.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#7 » by Stillwater » Fri May 21, 2021 11:37 pm

JonFromVA wrote:I suspect if you're looking for an elite shooter, you really want to target players who shot 40% 3pt in College and 85% on their free throws. Otherwise it's a mixed bag. Some players have gone from bad to good really fast while others struggle with it throughout their career.

Just another reason I'll be very happy if we get the chance to draft Cade Cunningham even if his first step is mediocre.

Yeah I am not even sure I agree his first step is bad it just is not a asset for him especially considering what he brings as a scorer and although not on display if only counting stats on a bad shooting team is more than better than average as a playmaker on the wing, but I don't expect his dime totals to be any better in Cleveland given he would be the first option day 1.
I don't think they can draft a player like him though ahead of a high energy forward like Mobley or Kuminga or Barnes if the intent is to use him at the 3 even with those others shooting ability a wip or not. they are all projected to be better defenders unless they draft cade to be the pg and trade Garland for a draft pick
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#8 » by jbk1234 » Fri May 21, 2021 11:57 pm

JonFromVA wrote:I suspect if you're looking for an elite shooter, you really want to target players who shot 40% 3pt in College and 85% on their free throws. Otherwise it's a mixed bag. Some players have gone from bad to good really fast while others struggle with it throughout their career.

Just another reason I'll be very happy if we get the chance to draft Cade Cunningham even if his first step is mediocre.
I'm not going to worry about it too much until the lottery results drop. But, I've got Mobley over Cade personally. I think he has the higher ceiling. Cade is better immediate fit and SF is the more difficult position to fill. Green would give us some much needed height in the backcourt and can shoot some.

If those three are gone, I'd be open to trading back if the compensation was right.

But we need another shooter. I like Bouknight and might forgive them for reaching a bit if we don't have lottery luck.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#9 » by Stillwater » Sat May 22, 2021 1:38 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:I suspect if you're looking for an elite shooter, you really want to target players who shot 40% 3pt in College and 85% on their free throws. Otherwise it's a mixed bag. Some players have gone from bad to good really fast while others struggle with it throughout their career.

Just another reason I'll be very happy if we get the chance to draft Cade Cunningham even if his first step is mediocre.
I'm not going to worry about it too much until the lottery results drop. But, I've got Mobley over Cade personally. I think he has the higher ceiling. Cade is better immediate fit and SF is the more difficult position to fill. Green would give us some much needed height in the backcourt and can shoot some.

If those three are gone, I'd be open to trading back if the compensation was right.

But we need another shooter. I like Bouknight and might forgive them for reaching a bit if we don't have lottery luck.
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Green is probably going to end up being the top iso scorer from the draft but you're kidding yourself if you think his height will make him a good defender. I could be wrong but hes shown less interest in that this coach has in shooting 3s.
Neither is the top option for fit over Kuminga or Barnes imo if they go fit over current offensive impact. Mobley will go 1st to most teams except maybe the Cavs who wont see a 4 there with the no stretch Jfro or maybe Indy who doesnt need a big at all.
I think they would draft Mobley if Suggs and Kuminga are gone but might reach on Cade over all of them.
I also think this discussion is doa if they dont have lottery luck and we are back to scratching fleas on longterm only developing
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#10 » by jbk1234 » Sat May 22, 2021 2:15 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:I suspect if you're looking for an elite shooter, you really want to target players who shot 40% 3pt in College and 85% on their free throws. Otherwise it's a mixed bag. Some players have gone from bad to good really fast while others struggle with it throughout their career.

Just another reason I'll be very happy if we get the chance to draft Cade Cunningham even if his first step is mediocre.
I'm not going to worry about it too much until the lottery results drop. But, I've got Mobley over Cade personally. I think he has the higher ceiling. Cade is better immediate fit and SF is the more difficult position to fill. Green would give us some much needed height in the backcourt and can shoot some.

If those three are gone, I'd be open to trading back if the compensation was right.

But we need another shooter. I like Bouknight and might forgive them for reaching a bit if we don't have lottery luck.
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Green is probably going to end up being the top iso scorer from the draft but you're kidding yourself if you think his height will make him a good defender. I could be wrong but hes shown less interest in that this coach has in shooting 3s.
Neither is the top option for fit over Kuminga or Barnes imo if they go fit over current offensive impact. Mobley will go 1st to most teams except maybe the Cavs who wont see a 4 there with the no stretch Jfro or maybe Indy who doesnt need a big at all.
I think they would draft Mobley if Suggs and Kuminga are gone but might reach on Cade over all of them.
I also think this discussion is doa if they dont have lottery luck and we are back to scratching fleas on longterm only developing
The Cavs will be a bad team again if they're still bottom five in made threes and opponents 3 point%. There's simply no getting around it. It doesn't matter that you prefer a different style of play or athleticism over all.

Once the Cavs traded for Allen, that began to limit who they can add to the roster. Sexton prefers to drive and the entire league knows it. I just can't conceive of a scenario where adding a non-shooter to the roster makes us better. Not if that player is gonna start. You'll be looking at 4 defenders in the paint every time someone wants to drive.

Also, running out on the break after turnovers is a good way to supplement your offense, but it's no substitute for an actual half court offense. Good teams will scout you, take care off the ball, and get back on defense. Every team will do their best to make sure you don't get to run in the last 5 minutes of the game.

You have to be able to run a half court offense and you need to space the floor to do it.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#11 » by JonFromVA » Sat May 22, 2021 3:53 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:I suspect if you're looking for an elite shooter, you really want to target players who shot 40% 3pt in College and 85% on their free throws. Otherwise it's a mixed bag. Some players have gone from bad to good really fast while others struggle with it throughout their career.

Just another reason I'll be very happy if we get the chance to draft Cade Cunningham even if his first step is mediocre.
I'm not going to worry about it too much until the lottery results drop. But, I've got Mobley over Cade personally. I think he has the higher ceiling. Cade is better immediate fit and SF is the more difficult position to fill. Green would give us some much needed height in the backcourt and can shoot some.

If those three are gone, I'd be open to trading back if the compensation was right.

But we need another shooter. I like Bouknight and might forgive them for reaching a bit if we don't have lottery luck.


Yep, me too, but we do need shooting and there's not a lot of proven shooting out of this supposedly deep draft.

I don't think you can promote Mobley over Cunningham, though, based on what he might do .vs. what Cade has already shown. At the moment nbadraft.net lists him as 7ft and 215lbs and questions his motivation and body language which are definitely red flags for the Cavs; but mostly it's about his timeline. He's going to have to want to get bigger/stronger and become a better shooter to start at PF. We can certainly afford to park him behind Love, Nance, and Wade for a couple of years, but for instance could we play him at small forward? Back when Durant was a rookie, Seattle would play him at SG ... but he clearly was skilled enough for that.

Given our timeline, the risks and our needs for more shooting, playmaking, and defense, we can't pass on Cade. Of course the odds are we won't have a choice of either we'll end up picking 6th like my last roll on tankathon.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#12 » by jbk1234 » Sat May 22, 2021 3:59 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:I suspect if you're looking for an elite shooter, you really want to target players who shot 40% 3pt in College and 85% on their free throws. Otherwise it's a mixed bag. Some players have gone from bad to good really fast while others struggle with it throughout their career.

Just another reason I'll be very happy if we get the chance to draft Cade Cunningham even if his first step is mediocre.
I'm not going to worry about it too much until the lottery results drop. But, I've got Mobley over Cade personally. I think he has the higher ceiling. Cade is better immediate fit and SF is the more difficult position to fill. Green would give us some much needed height in the backcourt and can shoot some.

If those three are gone, I'd be open to trading back if the compensation was right.

But we need another shooter. I like Bouknight and might forgive them for reaching a bit if we don't have lottery luck.


Yep, me too, but we do need shooting and there's not a lot of proven shooting out of this supposedly deep draft.

I don't think you can promote Mobley over Cunningham, though, based on what he might do .vs. what Cade has already shown. At the moment nbadraft.net lists him as 7ft and 215lbs and questions his motivation and body language which are definitely red flags for the Cavs; but mostly it's about his timeline. He's going to have to want to get bigger/stronger and become a better shooter to start at PF. We can certainly afford to park him behind Love, Nance, and Wade for a couple of years, but for instance could we play him at small forward? Back when Durant was a rookie, Seattle would play him at SG ... but he clearly was skilled enough for that.

Given our timeline, the risks and our needs for more shooting, playmaking, and defense, we can't pass on Cade. Of course the odds are we won't have a choice of either we'll end up picking 6th like my last roll on tankathon.


Mobley's ceiling is considerably higher than Cade's IMO. I wouldn't be mad with either one though.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#13 » by Stillwater » Sat May 22, 2021 4:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm not going to worry about it too much until the lottery results drop. But, I've got Mobley over Cade personally. I think he has the higher ceiling. Cade is better immediate fit and SF is the more difficult position to fill. Green would give us some much needed height in the backcourt and can shoot some.

If those three are gone, I'd be open to trading back if the compensation was right.

But we need another shooter. I like Bouknight and might forgive them for reaching a bit if we don't have lottery luck.
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Green is probably going to end up being the top iso scorer from the draft but you're kidding yourself if you think his height will make him a good defender. I could be wrong but hes shown less interest in that this coach has in shooting 3s.
Neither is the top option for fit over Kuminga or Barnes imo if they go fit over current offensive impact. Mobley will go 1st to most teams except maybe the Cavs who wont see a 4 there with the no stretch Jfro or maybe Indy who doesnt need a big at all.
I think they would draft Mobley if Suggs and Kuminga are gone but might reach on Cade over all of them.
I also think this discussion is doa if they dont have lottery luck and we are back to scratching fleas on longterm only developing
The Cavs will be a bad team again if they're still bottom five in made threes and opponents 3 point%. There's simply no getting around it. It doesn't matter that you prefer a different style of play or athleticism over all.

Once the Cavs traded for Allen, that began to limit who they can add to the roster. Sexton prefers to drive and the entire league knows it. I just can't conceive of a scenario where adding a non-shooter to the roster makes us better. Not if that player is gonna start. You'll be looking at 4 defenders in the paint every time someone wants to drive.

Also, running out on the break after turnovers is a good way to supplement your offense, but it's no substitute for an actual half court offense. Good teams will scout you, take care off the ball, and get back on defense. Every team will do their best to make sure you don't get to run in the last 5 minutes of the game.

You have to be able to run a half court offense and you need to space the floor to do it.

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well my optimism of them being that much better adding any rookie with this coach unless he wakes up is pretty slim so if they pick for need it better also be their highest ranked prospect is all I am saying. Shooters are a dime a dozen , players with elite upside like Kuminga are not.I personally think they need to ditch the current rebuild as is and just take the best player then move whoever doesn't fit that player after a year if that player proved to be the guy they hoped he was.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#14 » by Stillwater » Sat May 22, 2021 6:46 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#15 » by JonFromVA » Sun May 23, 2021 1:12 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm not going to worry about it too much until the lottery results drop. But, I've got Mobley over Cade personally. I think he has the higher ceiling. Cade is better immediate fit and SF is the more difficult position to fill. Green would give us some much needed height in the backcourt and can shoot some.

If those three are gone, I'd be open to trading back if the compensation was right.

But we need another shooter. I like Bouknight and might forgive them for reaching a bit if we don't have lottery luck.


Yep, me too, but we do need shooting and there's not a lot of proven shooting out of this supposedly deep draft.

I don't think you can promote Mobley over Cunningham, though, based on what he might do .vs. what Cade has already shown. At the moment nbadraft.net lists him as 7ft and 215lbs and questions his motivation and body language which are definitely red flags for the Cavs; but mostly it's about his timeline. He's going to have to want to get bigger/stronger and become a better shooter to start at PF. We can certainly afford to park him behind Love, Nance, and Wade for a couple of years, but for instance could we play him at small forward? Back when Durant was a rookie, Seattle would play him at SG ... but he clearly was skilled enough for that.

Given our timeline, the risks and our needs for more shooting, playmaking, and defense, we can't pass on Cade. Of course the odds are we won't have a choice of either we'll end up picking 6th like my last roll on tankathon.


Mobley's ceiling is considerably higher than Cade's IMO. I wouldn't be mad with either one though.


There's no ceiling on player like Cade doing what he's done at his age. And what's his floor? Jason Tatum with better court vision?

We can't pass ...
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#16 » by jbk1234 » Sun May 23, 2021 1:20 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Yep, me too, but we do need shooting and there's not a lot of proven shooting out of this supposedly deep draft.

I don't think you can promote Mobley over Cunningham, though, based on what he might do .vs. what Cade has already shown. At the moment nbadraft.net lists him as 7ft and 215lbs and questions his motivation and body language which are definitely red flags for the Cavs; but mostly it's about his timeline. He's going to have to want to get bigger/stronger and become a better shooter to start at PF. We can certainly afford to park him behind Love, Nance, and Wade for a couple of years, but for instance could we play him at small forward? Back when Durant was a rookie, Seattle would play him at SG ... but he clearly was skilled enough for that.

Given our timeline, the risks and our needs for more shooting, playmaking, and defense, we can't pass on Cade. Of course the odds are we won't have a choice of either we'll end up picking 6th like my last roll on tankathon.


Mobley's ceiling is considerably higher than Cade's IMO. I wouldn't be mad with either one though.


There's no ceiling on player like Cade doing what he's done at his age. And what's his floor? Jason Tatum with better court vision?

We can't pass ...
I'm watching Tatum unable to break down the 80-year old shell of Blake Griffin off the dribble from the three point line as I respond to this. I think people are overly dismissive of his inability to beat his man off the dribble in college. His ceiling could be prime Jeff Green.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#17 » by JonFromVA » Sun May 23, 2021 5:14 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Mobley's ceiling is considerably higher than Cade's IMO. I wouldn't be mad with either one though.


There's no ceiling on player like Cade doing what he's done at his age. And what's his floor? Jason Tatum with better court vision?

We can't pass ...
I'm watching Tatum unable to break down the 80-year old shell of Blake Griffin off the dribble from the three point line as I respond to this. I think people are overly dismissive of his inability to beat his man off the dribble in college. His ceiling could be prime Jeff Green.


What's unique about Cade is his level of production as a freshman. Tatum and Green weren't on the same tier. Its not a perfect predicter, but it's a strong one.

Cade can create space to shoot and his court vision and passing could let him cope with defenses that sell out on him more like Doncic than Tatum.

I'm not fond of Carmelo Anthony but I wouldn't hesitate to draft a prospect with his offensive upside that also likes to pass and play D. Melo being another example of a SF who scored 20ppg as an 18yr old and didn't need to drive around defenders to score on them.

Meanwhile the number of athletically promising bigs that never put it all together goes on and on. If you're looking for the next Anthony Davis, you have to find a prospect who fits not just the physical/mental profile but also learned to play ball more as a PG than a freak of nature.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#18 » by Stillwater » Sun May 23, 2021 6:09 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
There's no ceiling on player like Cade doing what he's done at his age. And what's his floor? Jason Tatum with better court vision?

We can't pass ...
I'm watching Tatum unable to break down the 80-year old shell of Blake Griffin off the dribble from the three point line as I respond to this. I think people are overly dismissive of his inability to beat his man off the dribble in college. His ceiling could be prime Jeff Green.


What's unique about Cade is his level of production as a freshman. Tatum and Green weren't on the same tier. Its not a perfect predicter, but it's a strong one.

Cade can create space to shoot and his court vision and passing could let him cope with defenses that sell out on him more like Doncic than Tatum.

I'm not fond of Carmelo Anthony but I wouldn't hesitate to draft a prospect with his offensive upside that also likes to pass and play D. Melo being another example of a SF who scored 20ppg as an 18yr old and didn't need to drive around defenders to score on them.

Meanwhile the number of athletically promising bigs that never put it all together goes on and on. If you're looking for the next Anthony Davis, you have to find a prospect who fits not just the physical/mental profile but also learned to play ball more as a PG than a freak of nature.

Cafe is alright and has a decent floor but hes not doncic. Mobley doesn't strike me as raw at all if thats what you are suggesting. Id draft him and let allen walk in a heartbeat
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#19 » by jbk1234 » Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm watching Tatum unable to break down the 80-year old shell of Blake Griffin off the dribble from the three point line as I respond to this. I think people are overly dismissive of his inability to beat his man off the dribble in college. His ceiling could be prime Jeff Green.


What's unique about Cade is his level of production as a freshman. Tatum and Green weren't on the same tier. Its not a perfect predicter, but it's a strong one.

Cade can create space to shoot and his court vision and passing could let him cope with defenses that sell out on him more like Doncic than Tatum.

I'm not fond of Carmelo Anthony but I wouldn't hesitate to draft a prospect with his offensive upside that also likes to pass and play D. Melo being another example of a SF who scored 20ppg as an 18yr old and didn't need to drive around defenders to score on them.

Meanwhile the number of athletically promising bigs that never put it all together goes on and on. If you're looking for the next Anthony Davis, you have to find a prospect who fits not just the physical/mental profile but also learned to play ball more as a PG than a freak of nature.

Cafe is alright and has a decent floor but hes not doncic. Mobley doesn't strike me as raw at all if thats what you are suggesting. Id draft him and let allen walk in a heartbeat
You don't let Allen walk. You at least try to play Mobley at the 4, and if that doesn't work (I think it will), you trade Allen. But not knowing what the future holds is exactly why the Cavs need to be careful with extensions. The difference between Allen having positive or neutral trade value might be the difference between $20 or $25M per.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card 

Post#20 » by Stillwater » Sun May 23, 2021 5:47 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
What's unique about Cade is his level of production as a freshman. Tatum and Green weren't on the same tier. Its not a perfect predicter, but it's a strong one.

Cade can create space to shoot and his court vision and passing could let him cope with defenses that sell out on him more like Doncic than Tatum.

I'm not fond of Carmelo Anthony but I wouldn't hesitate to draft a prospect with his offensive upside that also likes to pass and play D. Melo being another example of a SF who scored 20ppg as an 18yr old and didn't need to drive around defenders to score on them.

Meanwhile the number of athletically promising bigs that never put it all together goes on and on. If you're looking for the next Anthony Davis, you have to find a prospect who fits not just the physical/mental profile but also learned to play ball more as a PG than a freak of nature.

Cafe is alright and has a decent floor but hes not doncic. Mobley doesn't strike me as raw at all if thats what you are suggesting. Id draft him and let allen walk in a heartbeat
You don't let Allen walk. You at least try to play Mobley at the 4, and if that doesn't work (I think it will), you trade Allen. But not knowing what the future holds is exactly why the Cavs need to be careful with extensions. The difference between Allen having positive or neutral trade value might be the difference between $20 or $25M per.

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I didn't say I think they should let Allen walk... I said I would let him walk in a heartbeat and what I mean is my opinion that they absolutely should not pass up on Mobley because of anyone on the roster currently and in fact taking him would make a trade of Allen a reasonable option and give them possibly a decent mid lottery pick if they felt like I think they do.
I would think Mobley will be seen by this dumbass front office as a center and they will overpick Cade or or somebody else
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