Re: Cavs 2020-21 Season report card
Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 5:49 pm
apparently the coin flip tiebreakers are in 2 days to see if we are 4th or 5th before the lottery in june
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jbk1234 wrote:You don't let Allen walk. You at least try to play Mobley at the 4, and if that doesn't work (I think it will), you trade Allen. But not knowing what the future holds is exactly why the Cavs need to be careful with extensions. The difference between Allen having positive or neutral trade value might be the difference between $20 or $25M per.Stillwater wrote:JonFromVA wrote:
What's unique about Cade is his level of production as a freshman. Tatum and Green weren't on the same tier. Its not a perfect predicter, but it's a strong one.
Cade can create space to shoot and his court vision and passing could let him cope with defenses that sell out on him more like Doncic than Tatum.
I'm not fond of Carmelo Anthony but I wouldn't hesitate to draft a prospect with his offensive upside that also likes to pass and play D. Melo being another example of a SF who scored 20ppg as an 18yr old and didn't need to drive around defenders to score on them.
Meanwhile the number of athletically promising bigs that never put it all together goes on and on. If you're looking for the next Anthony Davis, you have to find a prospect who fits not just the physical/mental profile but also learned to play ball more as a PG than a freak of nature.
Cafe is alright and has a decent floor but hes not doncic. Mobley doesn't strike me as raw at all if thats what you are suggesting. Id draft him and let allen walk in a heartbeat
JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:You don't let Allen walk. You at least try to play Mobley at the 4, and if that doesn't work (I think it will), you trade Allen. But not knowing what the future holds is exactly why the Cavs need to be careful with extensions. The difference between Allen having positive or neutral trade value might be the difference between $20 or $25M per.Stillwater wrote:Cafe is alright and has a decent floor but hes not doncic. Mobley doesn't strike me as raw at all if thats what you are suggesting. Id draft him and let allen walk in a heartbeat
The Cavs (if they had the cap space) were going to be one of the team's looking to overpay Allen and hope the Nets couldn't afford to match. So, I doubt they'd blink at offering him a big offer unless they grossly misjudged his value.
Nor should they ...
That is short of Altman getting fired and a new GM coming in with a completely different view of our players and how to go about building a team.
Here's my thing, if you're going to get stuck overpaying on an annual basis, then you shouldn't be worried about matching a three-year offer instead of signing a guy to a five-year extension. It's better to be obligated for less time at that salary.JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:You don't let Allen walk. You at least try to play Mobley at the 4, and if that doesn't work (I think it will), you trade Allen. But not knowing what the future holds is exactly why the Cavs need to be careful with extensions. The difference between Allen having positive or neutral trade value might be the difference between $20 or $25M per.Stillwater wrote:Cafe is alright and has a decent floor but hes not doncic. Mobley doesn't strike me as raw at all if thats what you are suggesting. Id draft him and let allen walk in a heartbeat
The Cavs (if they had the cap space) were going to be one of the team's looking to overpay Allen and hope the Nets couldn't afford to match. So, I doubt they'd blink at offering him a big offer unless they grossly misjudged his value.
Nor should they ...
That is short of Altman getting fired and a new GM coming in with a completely different view of our players and how to go about building a team.
jbk1234 wrote:Here's my thing, if you're going to get stuck overpaying on an annual basis, then you shouldn't be worried about matching a three-year offer instead of signing a guy to a five-year extension. It's better to be obligated for less time at that salary.JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:You don't let Allen walk. You at least try to play Mobley at the 4, and if that doesn't work (I think it will), you trade Allen. But not knowing what the future holds is exactly why the Cavs need to be careful with extensions. The difference between Allen having positive or neutral trade value might be the difference between $20 or $25M per.
The Cavs (if they had the cap space) were going to be one of the team's looking to overpay Allen and hope the Nets couldn't afford to match. So, I doubt they'd blink at offering him a big offer unless they grossly misjudged his value.
Nor should they ...
That is short of Altman getting fired and a new GM coming in with a completely different view of our players and how to go about building a team.
If Gilbert is going to fire Altman, and it's not clear to me that he's blown any trades or draft picks, then he needs to already have his replacement lined up, and it needs to happen soon.JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:Here's my thing, if you're going to get stuck overpaying on an annual basis, then you shouldn't be worried about matching a three-year offer instead of signing a guy to a five-year extension. It's better to be obligated for less time at that salary.JonFromVA wrote:
The Cavs (if they had the cap space) were going to be one of the team's looking to overpay Allen and hope the Nets couldn't afford to match. So, I doubt they'd blink at offering him a big offer unless they grossly misjudged his value.
Nor should they ...
That is short of Altman getting fired and a new GM coming in with a completely different view of our players and how to go about building a team.
I know. We've been through this. You'd like to see the Cavs minimize their risks. I want to see them make the right decisions and take the correct risks.
So for me it comes back to projection of both talent and the salary structure for the team. If Allen starts becoming a true difference maker in a few years when our other young players are starting to come in to their own and need to be paid, I'd rather have Allen under contract for a couple more then have him out on the market as an unrestricted free-agent.
fwiw, it will be interesting to see how far the Knicks and Hawks go and how they develop. In my mind, both teams have pushed their proverbial chips to the middle way ahead of schedule. If nothing else having Love's bloated contract on the roster has prevented us from trying something similar.
I suppose the Mavs are kind of in that category as well, but their situation was a lot closer to ours when we drafted LeBron - it was going be hard to keep that team picking in the lottery.
There are a lot of paths to success, alas far more lead to failure. We desperately needs someone who knows what they're doing guiding the way and Koby is rapidly approaching that moment of truth if Dan lets him.
jbk1234 wrote:If Gilbert is going to fire Altman, and it's not clear to me that he's blown any trades or draft picks, then he needs to already have his replacement lined up, and it needs to happen soon.JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:Here's my thing, if you're going to get stuck overpaying on an annual basis, then you shouldn't be worried about matching a three-year offer instead of signing a guy to a five-year extension. It's better to be obligated for less time at that salary.
I know. We've been through this. You'd like to see the Cavs minimize their risks. I want to see them make the right decisions and take the correct risks.
So for me it comes back to projection of both talent and the salary structure for the team. If Allen starts becoming a true difference maker in a few years when our other young players are starting to come in to their own and need to be paid, I'd rather have Allen under contract for a couple more then have him out on the market as an unrestricted free-agent.
fwiw, it will be interesting to see how far the Knicks and Hawks go and how they develop. In my mind, both teams have pushed their proverbial chips to the middle way ahead of schedule. If nothing else having Love's bloated contract on the roster has prevented us from trying something similar.
I suppose the Mavs are kind of in that category as well, but their situation was a lot closer to ours when we drafted LeBron - it was going be hard to keep that team picking in the lottery.
There are a lot of paths to success, alas far more lead to failure. We desperately needs someone who knows what they're doing guiding the way and Koby is rapidly approaching that moment of truth if Dan lets him.
You can't have a repeat of the Kyrie fiasco. We have some pretty big decisions right over the horizon.
As far as having Allen *locked up,* that's just not how the league works anymore. Guys demand trades a year or two after extending, and when that happens, their trade value is closely tied to their contracts. It just seems that the security offered to the team is very illusory while the financial obligation in the event of an overpay is ironclad.
It's borderline unwatchable. Silver did say they were going to revisit the natural shooting motion rule this offseason and most people are surmising it's in response to Trae.Stillwater wrote:is Fedor a Trae Young homer or what lol that cheater has the leagues officials over a barrel smh
if we could get the Cavs guards to get foul calls like that we would be in the damn play in last week
Maybe Altman won't be doing them at all. I don't know if I agree with this. There were a handful if decisions that look really bad in hindsight and I'm not sure how much input/control Altman had over them. The Lue extension, the Love extension, the Beilein hiring, allowing the situation to detroirate with Love under Beilein the way it did, and trading for Drummond.JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:If Gilbert is going to fire Altman, and it's not clear to me that he's blown any trades or draft picks, then he needs to already have his replacement lined up, and it needs to happen soon.JonFromVA wrote:
I know. We've been through this. You'd like to see the Cavs minimize their risks. I want to see them make the right decisions and take the correct risks.
So for me it comes back to projection of both talent and the salary structure for the team. If Allen starts becoming a true difference maker in a few years when our other young players are starting to come in to their own and need to be paid, I'd rather have Allen under contract for a couple more then have him out on the market as an unrestricted free-agent.
fwiw, it will be interesting to see how far the Knicks and Hawks go and how they develop. In my mind, both teams have pushed their proverbial chips to the middle way ahead of schedule. If nothing else having Love's bloated contract on the roster has prevented us from trying something similar.
I suppose the Mavs are kind of in that category as well, but their situation was a lot closer to ours when we drafted LeBron - it was going be hard to keep that team picking in the lottery.
There are a lot of paths to success, alas far more lead to failure. We desperately needs someone who knows what they're doing guiding the way and Koby is rapidly approaching that moment of truth if Dan lets him.
You can't have a repeat of the Kyrie fiasco. We have some pretty big decisions right over the horizon.
As far as having Allen *locked up,* that's just not how the league works anymore. Guys demand trades a year or two after extending, and when that happens, their trade value is closely tied to their contracts. It just seems that the security offered to the team is very illusory while the financial obligation in the event of an overpay is ironclad.
In this case, it's not about security ... it's about price control. Allen earning $20M to $25M per year for the next 5 years is easier to deal with and plan around then if Allen is suddenly making $40M+ in 3 years.
As for Koby?
Well
There was this:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cavs?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cavs</a> are doing internal exit interviews in a different way. On Monday, there was a quick conversation with players before letting them get away to decompress for a bit. That day, they also created a schedule for when the longer exit interviews will take place.</p>— Chris Fedor (@ChrisFedor)<a href="?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 19, 2021</a></blockquote>
Maybe the Cavs don't want Koby conducting the exit interviews? Are they afraid he might make some relationships worse? How upset do they think the players are, if they feel they need to decompress before conducting interviews?
I have always got this sick feeling in my stomach when games are basically decided on bs calls because I had it happen a couple of times too me and really burns my arse. I mean they fkn challenged it and the refs still gave him the call which kind of says it alljbk1234 wrote:It's borderline unwatchable. Silver did say they were going to revisit the natural shooting motion rule this offseason and most people are surmising it's in response to Trae.Stillwater wrote:is Fedor a Trae Young homer or what lol that cheater has the leagues officials over a barrel smh
if we could get the Cavs guards to get foul calls like that we would be in the damn play in last week
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Trae is so egregious. It's the worst I've ever seen.Stillwater wrote:I have always got this sick feeling in my stomach when games are basically decided on bs calls because I had it happen a couple of times too me and really burns my arse. I mean they fkn challenged it and the refs still gave him the call which kind of says it alljbk1234 wrote:It's borderline unwatchable. Silver did say they were going to revisit the natural shooting motion rule this offseason and most people are surmising it's in response to Trae.Stillwater wrote:is Fedor a Trae Young homer or what lol that cheater has the leagues officials over a barrel smh
if we could get the Cavs guards to get foul calls like that we would be in the damn play in last week
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 1st FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #4 (You guys are projected to receive) for Wiseman + #6?
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 1st FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #4 (You guys are projected to receive) for Wiseman + #6?
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 1st FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #4 (You guys are projected to receive) for Wiseman + #6?
JonFromVA wrote:AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 1st FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #4 (You guys are projected to receive) for Wiseman + #6?
If you guys get the pick, the highest odds are that it will be 7th or 8th. The Cavs pick could very well end up 6th (27% chance) or about a 45% chance it ends up somewhere in the top-4.
I think the Cavs were interested in Wiseman last year, but since they ended up trading for Jarrett Allen and plan to re-sign him; I expect their interest is way down. They might be interested in him as a developmental project? Someone they might be able to flip in the future? But given how much he's getting paid, they may prefer to invest in Isaiah Hartenstein who's older and more ready to contribute as a backup C and spot starter.
If the Cavs are open to trading down, they may very well prefer to take a gamble on a future unprotected #1 pick from the W's. That can at least be packaged in a trade for a player they could actually use (much like how they got Allen for Milwaukee's #1).
We really need to wait for the draft lottery ...
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:JonFromVA wrote:AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 1st FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #4 (You guys are projected to receive) for Wiseman + #6?
If you guys get the pick, the highest odds are that it will be 7th or 8th. The Cavs pick could very well end up 6th (27% chance) or about a 45% chance it ends up somewhere in the top-4.
I think the Cavs were interested in Wiseman last year, but since they ended up trading for Jarrett Allen and plan to re-sign him; I expect their interest is way down. They might be interested in him as a developmental project? Someone they might be able to flip in the future? But given how much he's getting paid, they may prefer to invest in Isaiah Hartenstein who's older and more ready to contribute as a backup C and spot starter.
If the Cavs are open to trading down, they may very well prefer to take a gamble on a future unprotected #1 pick from the W's. That can at least be packaged in a trade for a player they could actually use (much like how they got Allen for Milwaukee's #1).
We really need to wait for the draft lottery ...
Right on. Wiseman is going to be a great player in the next couple years, but he’s just not within Curry, Thompson and Green’s timeline to compete deep in the playoffs. He’s young/raw and will need the time and experience to get really better.
Long-term, I think he’ll be a much better investment and fit than Jarrett Allen who will re-sign at $100 mil, 3-4 year contract. But, that’s just me.
jbk1234 wrote:Maybe Altman won't be doing them at all. I don't know if I agree with this. There were a handful if decisions that look really bad in hindsight and I'm not sure how much input/control Altman had over them. The Lue extension, the Love extension, the Beilein hiring, allowing the situation to detroirate with Love under Beilein the way it did, and trading for Drummond.JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:If Gilbert is going to fire Altman, and it's not clear to me that he's blown any trades or draft picks, then he needs to already have his replacement lined up, and it needs to happen soon.
You can't have a repeat of the Kyrie fiasco. We have some pretty big decisions right over the horizon.
As far as having Allen *locked up,* that's just not how the league works anymore. Guys demand trades a year or two after extending, and when that happens, their trade value is closely tied to their contracts. It just seems that the security offered to the team is very illusory while the financial obligation in the event of an overpay is ironclad.
In this case, it's not about security ... it's about price control. Allen earning $20M to $25M per year for the next 5 years is easier to deal with and plan around then if Allen is suddenly making $40M+ in 3 years.
As for Koby?
Well
There was this:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cavs?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cavs</a> are doing internal exit interviews in a different way. On Monday, there was a quick conversation with players before letting them get away to decompress for a bit. That day, they also created a schedule for when the longer exit interviews will take place.</p>— Chris Fedor (@ChrisFedor)<a href="?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 19, 2021</a></blockquote>
Maybe the Cavs don't want Koby conducting the exit interviews? Are they afraid he might make some relationships worse? How upset do they think the players are, if they feel they need to decompress before conducting interviews?
Only one of those seemed really bad at the time and I'm not sure that any of those choices were 100% Altman's.
No. We have Allen.AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 1st FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #4 (You guys are projected to receive) for Wiseman + #6?