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poll if 7th

Moderator: jbk1234

Cavs have best odds for 7th so with chalk taken who you want them to take or do?

Poll ended at Fri May 28, 2021 2:36 am

make a trade up or down
2
67%
pick Jalen Johnson
0
No votes
pick Keon Johnson
0
No votes
pick Kai Jones
0
No votes
pick Sengun
0
No votes
pick Moody
0
No votes
pick Giddey
0
No votes
pick Kispert
0
No votes
pick Isaiah Todd
0
No votes
pick someone not listed
1
33%
 
Total votes: 3

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poll if 7th 

Post#1 » by Stillwater » Wed May 26, 2021 2:36 am

if cavs pick 7th ( biggest odds) with top 6 of Mobley Cunningham Suggs Kuminga Green and Barnes taken
who do you like or do you want to trade up trade down what?
I will put up a poll
I don't know what they will do at all or who will make the decisions but in this case with the top targets gone I am thinking seriously about trading up using the 2022 first
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#2 » by Stillwater » Wed May 26, 2021 1:53 pm

lol at somebody picking the last option but nit saying who they would pick.
I guess this was bad timing to create a poll for the inevitable failure of picking 7th.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#3 » by Stillwater » Wed May 26, 2021 2:08 pm

I am considering them going the trade down option too and if they do a player that is growing on me in the 20s watching the playmaking ability from the interior is D Sharpe. I think he is vastly underrated and although the Cavs kind of seem set in that department he might turn out to be the guy that helps them justify a Nance replacement if his health conditions worsen.
check this playmaking video from HS:
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#4 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed May 26, 2021 6:46 pm

I'd want Davion Mitchell or Giddey at #7. We just played an entire season without a backup PG or SG on the roster. Both of those guys should be overqualified to run a second unit and will push for time.
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#5 » by JonFromVA » Wed May 26, 2021 7:16 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I'd want Davion Mitchell or Giddey at #7. We just played an entire season without a backup PG or SG on the roster. Both of those guys should be overqualified to run a second unit and will push for time.


That's a pretty high pick to invest in a Dante Exum replacement.
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#6 » by jbk1234 » Wed May 26, 2021 7:40 pm

Stillwater wrote:lol at somebody picking the last option but nit saying who they would pick.
I guess this was bad timing to create a poll for the inevitable failure of picking 7th.
I'd target Bouknight, and if I was confident I could trade back a couple spaces, pick up another first, and still get him, that's what I'd do.

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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#7 » by toooskies » Wed May 26, 2021 7:55 pm

Yeah, we should at least aim for a future starter.

I think 7 is an awkward spot. GIddey might be a good fit for the roster as a taller guard, Kispert might be the kind of guy we want playing SF, Jalen Johnson has the talent to be a top player in the draft but he didn't contribute to winning at Duke so I definitely wouldn't add him to the Cavs' roster. I'd rather trade out and take a few shots on guys later in the draft, we need depth more than anything.
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#8 » by Stillwater » Wed May 26, 2021 8:57 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:lol at somebody picking the last option but nit saying who they would pick.
I guess this was bad timing to create a poll for the inevitable failure of picking 7th.
I'd target Bouknight, and if I was confident I could trade back a couple spaces, pick up another first, and still get him, that's what I'd do.

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I like his size and high iq but am a little worried he is not that good of a shooter but maybe he just needs reps idk.
I would take him in the late teens if they do in fact trade Sexton because they are gonna need someone like Bouknight's offense if it transfers if they do but at that point I am not sure I can stomach following this team anymore because I don't think they should go cheap on Sexton and they better damn well get a solid return for him if they are willing to burn up the heart and soul of my fan card like that.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#9 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed May 26, 2021 9:59 pm

Kispert is the type of guy that would maybe fit well. But he'd likely spend his minutes duct taped to a lawn chair watching Sexland shoot floaters in the lane.
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#10 » by Stillwater » Wed May 26, 2021 10:44 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Kispert is the type of guy that would maybe fit well. But he'd likely spend his minutes duct taped to a lawn chair watching Sexland shoot floaters in the lane.

I think Kispert is too limited defensively in one on one situations to take higher than late lottery, but there is not a better off ball cutter and shooter in this draft so I would not argue if they took him at 9 if they have the worst luck possible and I think it's a good argument that both Sexton and Garland would thrive having a weapon like that playing with them.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#11 » by Stillwater » Thu May 27, 2021 1:00 am

I am not sure if he can play the 4 next to Allen if they miss out on Kuminga and Mobley for example not being much of a shooter yet either but watching a lot of Sengun tape and he clearly has the ability to put the ball on the floor is mobile and a decent athlete and defender.I see he can finish pretty easily although most defenders are not nba level they are adults so it is something this team could use too if he is there when they pick assuming they are 6 or later.
I could see them taking him if they don't like Barnes enough or dont want a guard if Green slides or something at 6 because Sengun looks like an able passer relatively good for his age basketball smarts as well but not likely being taken higher over anyone else in the top 6 unless they think he can develop a reliable long ball and play with JFro. He might be another Sabonis level prospect not a bad deal at all
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#12 » by jbk1234 » Thu May 27, 2021 1:23 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:lol at somebody picking the last option but nit saying who they would pick.
I guess this was bad timing to create a poll for the inevitable failure of picking 7th.
I'd target Bouknight, and if I was confident I could trade back a couple spaces, pick up another first, and still get him, that's what I'd do.

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I like his size and high iq but am a little worried he is not that good of a shooter but maybe he just needs reps idk.
I would take him in the late teens if they do in fact trade Sexton because they are gonna need someone like Bouknight's offense if it transfers if they do but at that point I am not sure I can stomach following this team anymore because I don't think they should go cheap on Sexton and they better damn well get a solid return for him if they are willing to burn up the heart and soul of my fan card like that.
His FT% is solid, which most scouts use a predictor of future shooting performance, but his 3p% actually went down his sophomore year which I was unaware of. Screw it, who is the best shooter in this draft?

As far as Sexton, if Pluto is right about him wanting a Fox contract, $140M, I don't think he's getting it. Not from the Cavs and not from anyone else. The ride is going to be bumpy regardless of whether he stays or goes.

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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#13 » by Harper4Ferry? » Thu May 27, 2021 1:33 am

Stillwater wrote:I am not sure if he can play the 4 next to Allen if they miss out on Kuminga and Mobley for example not being much of a shooter yet either but watching a lot of Sengun tape and he clearly has the ability to put the ball on the floor is mobile and a decent athlete and defender.I see he can finish pretty easily although most defenders are not nba level they are adults so it is something this team could use too if he is there when they pick assuming they are 6 or later.
I could see them taking him if they don't like Barnes enough or dont want a guard if Green slides or something at 6 because Sengun looks like an able passer relatively good for his age basketball smarts as well but not likely being taken higher over anyone else in the top 6 unless they think he can develop a reliable long ball and play with JFro. He might be another Sabonis level prospect not a bad deal at all


I've been meaning to check him out.
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#14 » by Harper4Ferry? » Thu May 27, 2021 1:34 am

They can give Sexton a 5 year max if they want, but they better trade Garland with the next breath. It won't go over well.
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#15 » by jbk1234 » Thu May 27, 2021 1:56 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:They can give Sexton a 5 year max if they want, but they better trade Garland with the next breath. It won't go over well.
If they give Sexton a five year max, I'm probably tapping out. I think the odds of him ever being worth that money are beyond remote and we'll be stuck with him. I mean you can't seriously consider the option of bringing him off the bench and also seriously consider paying him that type of money.

Honestly, the fact that it's even be discussed scares the crap out of me as far as the Cavs having a realistic assessment of what other teams will offer or consider good value. We'll be paying Love $30M to come off the bench before his contract is up. We might be paying him $20M to come off some other team's bench. If Drummond's agent hadn't committed malpractice, we'd probably already be on the hook for twice what he'll get this summer. It's my biggest concern with the current F.O.

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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#16 » by Stillwater » Thu May 27, 2021 3:26 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'd target Bouknight, and if I was confident I could trade back a couple spaces, pick up another first, and still get him, that's what I'd do.

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I like his size and high iq but am a little worried he is not that good of a shooter but maybe he just needs reps idk.
I would take him in the late teens if they do in fact trade Sexton because they are gonna need someone like Bouknight's offense if it transfers if they do but at that point I am not sure I can stomach following this team anymore because I don't think they should go cheap on Sexton and they better damn well get a solid return for him if they are willing to burn up the heart and soul of my fan card like that.
His FT% is solid, which most scouts use a predictor of future shooting performance, but his 3p% actually went down his sophomore year which I was unaware of. Screw it, who is the best shooter in this draft?

As far as Sexton, if Pluto is right about him wanting a Fox contract, $140M, I don't think he's getting it. Not from the Cavs and not from anyone else. The ride is going to be bumpy regardless of whether he stays or goes.

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looks like Kispert and Davion Mitchell are pretty reliable scorers and shooters all over the court and are first round locks also Butler at Baylor is also an elite 3 point shooter and could go late first as well as Juzang if he stays in. Specialists like Weiskamp Murphy Keontay Johnson in the 2nd or underafted + bigs Jay Huff and Mamukelashvili are stretch shooters to some degree. I think one sleeper for an early 2nd ( too bad we trade all of ours) is Kessler Edwards who has good size and shooting ability and could be a similar impact sf as Cameron Johnson.
One things for sure is the draft class lacks elite scorers that are also elite shooters but there are some smaller guards of course I don't expect that to be a option now.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#17 » by Stillwater » Thu May 27, 2021 3:35 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:They can give Sexton a 5 year max if they want, but they better trade Garland with the next breath. It won't go over well.
If they give Sexton a five year max, I'm probably tapping out. I think the odds of him ever being worth that money are beyond remote and we'll be stuck with him. I mean you can't seriously consider the option of bringing him off the bench and also seriously consider paying him that type of money.

Honestly, the fact that it's even be discussed scares the crap out of me as far as the Cavs having a realistic assessment of what other teams will offer or consider good value. We'll be paying Love $30M to come off the bench before his contract is up. We might be paying him $20M to come off some other team's bench. If Drummond's agent hadn't committed malpractice, we'd probably already be on the hook for twice what he'll get this summer. It's my biggest concern with the current F.O.

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If they plan to move him to 6th man I doubt he gets that $. Maybe he moves on if not, but I think he knows his value is hurt being on a losing team and if he is not being undercut and given incentives based on performance he would stay for less... esp if he stays in the starting line up or gets heavy minutes regardless
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#18 » by Stillwater » Thu May 27, 2021 3:38 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I am not sure if he can play the 4 next to Allen if they miss out on Kuminga and Mobley for example not being much of a shooter yet either but watching a lot of Sengun tape and he clearly has the ability to put the ball on the floor is mobile and a decent athlete and defender.I see he can finish pretty easily although most defenders are not nba level they are adults so it is something this team could use too if he is there when they pick assuming they are 6 or later.
I could see them taking him if they don't like Barnes enough or dont want a guard if Green slides or something at 6 because Sengun looks like an able passer relatively good for his age basketball smarts as well but not likely being taken higher over anyone else in the top 6 unless they think he can develop a reliable long ball and play with JFro. He might be another Sabonis level prospect not a bad deal at all


I've been meaning to check him out.

do it...he could be the patrick williams of this draft class that goes higher than mocked all season
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#19 » by jbk1234 » Thu May 27, 2021 8:06 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:They can give Sexton a 5 year max if they want, but they better trade Garland with the next breath. It won't go over well.
If they give Sexton a five year max, I'm probably tapping out. I think the odds of him ever being worth that money are beyond remote and we'll be stuck with him. I mean you can't seriously consider the option of bringing him off the bench and also seriously consider paying him that type of money.

Honestly, the fact that it's even be discussed scares the crap out of me as far as the Cavs having a realistic assessment of what other teams will offer or consider good value. We'll be paying Love $30M to come off the bench before his contract is up. We might be paying him $20M to come off some other team's bench. If Drummond's agent hadn't committed malpractice, we'd probably already be on the hook for twice what he'll get this summer. It's my biggest concern with the current F.O.

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If they plan to move him to 6th man I doubt he gets that $. Maybe he moves on if not, but I think he knows his value is hurt being on a losing team and if he is not being undercut and given incentives based on performance he would stay for less... esp if he stays in the starting line up or gets heavy minutes regardless
This is kind of my point though, unless his defense makes a drastic jump next season, I don't see any other team offering him anywhere near a max deal. In order to remain a starter he'd have to go to one of the Knicks, Sixers, Thunder, or Pelicans who have the type of wing personnel to cover for him defensively. Neither the Sixers nor the Pels are gonna have the space to tender an offer sheet he's gonna want to sign. The Knicks may very well use their space on Ball this summer and/or let Frank walk and that leaves only OKC.

A really important aspect of what a good front office does is accurately assess a player's market league-wide before making an offer, the Cavs have some pretty serious demerits in that column, and unless the Cavs do something stupid with a premature extension, I suspect Sexton will be disappointed with how his market ultimately develops. That's likely to be true whether it's here or elsewhere.

Make no mistake, cap space is a really important asset to rebuilding teams. Allen's not on the roster without it, the Hawks don't add some pretty key bench pieces last summer without it, the Hornets are pretty hamstrung having stretched Batum's last year over three seasons, the Wolves are paying a steep price for having mismanaged theirs, and the Kings watched the guy they should've kept walk because Buddy threw a fit and got an early extension.

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Re: poll if 7th 

Post#20 » by JonFromVA » Thu May 27, 2021 2:25 pm

I wouldn't get too excited about anything Terry Pluto is writing about, or has he actually been right about something and I missed it?

otoh, why wouldn't Collin ask for the max? The precedent is certainly there. Lots of small guards who can score have gotten paid.

For instance, there's not a whole lot separating him from Jamaal Murray when he was in his 3rd season other than the fact the Nuggets primary playmaker is Jokic with Morris at backup PG while the Cavs have Garland and nobody.

There are minefields ahead for the Cavs and they need to negotiate them smartly and successfully, or the rebuild will turn South and playing "hardball" is not going to be a good look for a franchise with a history of dysfunction and mismanagement. We desperately need to come to an amicable agreement on an extension, or find an amicable trade partner; so we can keep progressing.

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