ImageImageImage

Collin Sexton breaks down his own game

Moderator: jbk1234

toooskies
Junior
Posts: 375
And1: 140
Joined: Jul 18, 2013

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#101 » by toooskies » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:42 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I don't think you can draw that conclusion from the available data. If you want to say that there isn't enough data fine, but this is where Sexton proponents want to have it both ways. He's almost always on the court with the starters, but when he's not, you're not seeing a net loss in terms of margins. If anything, the data suggests that the games are actually closer when he's out and Garland still starts.

Now there can be a number of reasons for this over a small sample size, but if that's happening when your leading scorer is off the court, it's worth asking why, and perhaps even forcing the issue of a larger sample size.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

The problem is that Okoro was always on the court with the starters too, and he was one of the worst offensive players in basketball this year.
Okay, but that was true when Garland was playing without Sexton as well and the margins for the losses actually shrunk. I agree with John that the Cavs need more NBA talent at the backup guard positions, both of them, so the Cavs can run different lineups.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Are you throwing out all the games where the team was clearly tanking at the end of the season when doing that? Our end-of-season lineups were brutal. Brodric Thomas played 34 minutes against the Pacers!

Also, when your team has no functional point guards on the floor, it's worse than when you don't have a functional SG. You don't need a star there, but you at least need a Tyus Jones or TJ McConnell or a younger version of Delly to initiate. When Sexton moves out of position and has to do that, he definitely plays worse.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 43,874
And1: 25,006
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#102 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:31 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:The problem is that Okoro was always on the court with the starters too, and he was one of the worst offensive players in basketball this year.
Okay, but that was true when Garland was playing without Sexton as well and the margins for the losses actually shrunk. I agree with John that the Cavs need more NBA talent at the backup guard positions, both of them, so the Cavs can run different lineups.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Are you throwing out all the games where the team was clearly tanking at the end of the season when doing that? Our end-of-season lineups were brutal. Brodric Thomas played 34 minutes against the Pacers!

Also, when your team has no functional point guards on the floor, it's worse than when you don't have a functional SG. You don't need a star there, but you at least need a Tyus Jones or TJ McConnell or a younger version of Delly to initiate. When Sexton moves out of position and has to do that, he definitely plays worse.
If you want to toss out Sexton's best and worst months, you can do that, but February was his worst month by far.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 8,104
And1: 2,369
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#103 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:39 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Okay, but that was true when Garland was playing without Sexton as well and the margins for the losses actually shrunk. I agree with John that the Cavs need more NBA talent at the backup guard positions, both of them, so the Cavs can run different lineups.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Are you throwing out all the games where the team was clearly tanking at the end of the season when doing that? Our end-of-season lineups were brutal. Brodric Thomas played 34 minutes against the Pacers!

Also, when your team has no functional point guards on the floor, it's worse than when you don't have a functional SG. You don't need a star there, but you at least need a Tyus Jones or TJ McConnell or a younger version of Delly to initiate. When Sexton moves out of position and has to do that, he definitely plays worse.
If you want to toss out Sexton's best and worst months, you can do that, but February was his worst month by far.


What are you looking at?

May was Collin's worst month in terms of +/-, TS%, and FG% ... but his best month for assists.

February was Collin's second worst month for +/-, but it was even worse for Darius.

"small sample size" is one of my least favorite phrases on RealGM, but I just can't get around it when looking at the Cavs data for this season.

About the most condemning thing I can conclude is that even at our best, it wasn't particularly good; but even that data is polluted by Love trying to return after injury. There's a lineup we used with Wade and Love that worked pretty well, but IMO just points to the sore thumb which is the state of Isaac's 3pt shot.

Either Koby deserves a promotion for tanking so strong this season, or to be fired for not providing enough depth to help the team grow and evaluate talent.
toooskies
Junior
Posts: 375
And1: 140
Joined: Jul 18, 2013

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#104 » by toooskies » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:45 pm

February: Team imploded because of issues at PF(injury) and C (Drummond drama), and almost every game was against a good opponent (10 of 14 games against playoff teams, plus GS who made the play-in)
May: Team imploded because there was no healthy NBA-level PG on the roster, the bench was a bunch of G-Leaguers, and almost every game was against a good opponent (8 of 9 games against playoff teams, plus IND who made the play-in)

Garland missed all 8 of those games against playoff teams in May, so of course his +/- doesn't take a hit from missing minutes in harder games.
Elnegron
Pro Prospect
Posts: 791
And1: 194
Joined: May 20, 2017
         

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#105 » by Elnegron » Thu Jul 1, 2021 12:52 am

Trade him to Miami and we fix his shortcomings. Let’s be honest,cavs development suck big time. The only thing that u guys got going on is that u draft low and maximize the draft position with the exception of the big Canadian dude I forget his name. Player development is key with young players. Sexton has star potential, he just need the right place
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 8,104
And1: 2,369
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#106 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jul 1, 2021 2:10 pm

Elnegron wrote:Trade him to Miami and we fix his shortcomings. Let’s be honest,cavs development suck big time. The only thing that u guys got going on is that u draft low and maximize the draft position with the exception of the big Canadian dude I forget his name. Player development is key with young players. Sexton has star potential, he just need the right place


Cool story.

Sexton has improved every season ... if Herro, Nunn, and Robinson had done the same ... well, you probably wouldn't be posting about Collin.
LivingLegend
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,964
And1: 6,812
Joined: Jul 30, 2015

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#107 » by LivingLegend » Thu Jul 1, 2021 2:55 pm

Elnegron wrote:Trade him to Miami and we fix his shortcomings. Let’s be honest,cavs development suck big time. The only thing that u guys got going on is that u draft low and maximize the draft position with the exception of the big Canadian dude I forget his name. Player development is key with young players. Sexton has star potential, he just need the right place


Cavs development is 'area specific'. They are extremely good at developing shooting in players--hence why they keep taking 'gym rats' like Sexton/Okoro because they are confident they can turn them into serviceable shooters. They are just horrible at teaching fundamentals and getting players to mentally progress and situational awareness. It seems like our young players play like young players for far too long into their careers. You cant still be making rookie mistakes in your 3rd and 4th years--which nearly every Cavs prospect for the last decade has done, including Kyrie.

You and I are on different pages with Sexton. I believe (like ive said on here many times) his shortcomings are not 'fixable'--at least not until he is far more matured. His biggest struggles are defense, BBIQ and playmaking. I am a firm believer that BBIQ and court vision/playmaking are traits in players that you either have, or you dont. Collin has neither and I am skeptical if hes ever going to develop past where he currently is at. Hes going into year 4 and he still hesitates like his brain is receiving a system update whenever he has to make a pass in the offense.

Robinson and Nunn for Sexton who says no.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 15,734
And1: 3,654
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#108 » by Stillwater » Thu Jul 1, 2021 4:45 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Elnegron wrote:Trade him to Miami and we fix his shortcomings. Let’s be honest,cavs development suck big time. The only thing that u guys got going on is that u draft low and maximize the draft position with the exception of the big Canadian dude I forget his name. Player development is key with young players. Sexton has star potential, he just need the right place


Cavs development is 'area specific'. They are extremely good at developing shooting in players--hence why they keep taking 'gym rats' like Sexton/Okoro because they are confident they can turn them into serviceable shooters. They are just horrible at teaching fundamentals and getting players to mentally progress and situational awareness. It seems like our young players play like young players for far too long into their careers. You cant still be making rookie mistakes in your 3rd and 4th years--which nearly every Cavs prospect for the last decade has done, including Kyrie.

You and I are on different pages with Sexton. I believe (like ive said on here many times) his shortcomings are not 'fixable'--at least not until he is far more matured. His biggest struggles are defense, BBIQ and playmaking. I am a firm believer that BBIQ and court vision/playmaking are traits in players that you either have, or you dont. Collin has neither and I am skeptical if hes ever going to develop past where he currently is at. Hes going into year 4 and he still hesitates like his brain is receiving a system update whenever he has to make a pass in the offense.

Robinson and Nunn for Sexton who says no.

you obviously just keep Sexton since Nunn is a fa lol
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 43,874
And1: 25,006
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#109 » by jbk1234 » Thu Jul 1, 2021 5:03 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Elnegron wrote:Trade him to Miami and we fix his shortcomings. Let’s be honest,cavs development suck big time. The only thing that u guys got going on is that u draft low and maximize the draft position with the exception of the big Canadian dude I forget his name. Player development is key with young players. Sexton has star potential, he just need the right place


Cavs development is 'area specific'. They are extremely good at developing shooting in players--hence why they keep taking 'gym rats' like Sexton/Okoro because they are confident they can turn them into serviceable shooters. They are just horrible at teaching fundamentals and getting players to mentally progress and situational awareness. It seems like our young players play like young players for far too long into their careers. You cant still be making rookie mistakes in your 3rd and 4th years--which nearly every Cavs prospect for the last decade has done, including Kyrie.

You and I are on different pages with Sexton. I believe (like ive said on here many times) his shortcomings are not 'fixable'--at least not until he is far more matured. His biggest struggles are defense, BBIQ and playmaking. I am a firm believer that BBIQ and court vision/playmaking are traits in players that you either have, or you dont. Collin has neither and I am skeptical if hes ever going to develop past where he currently is at. Hes going into year 4 and he still hesitates like his brain is receiving a system update whenever he has to make a pass in the offense.

Robinson and Nunn for Sexton who says no.
I think the Cavs should trade Sexton and I'm passing on that deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
LivingLegend
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,964
And1: 6,812
Joined: Jul 30, 2015

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#110 » by LivingLegend » Thu Jul 1, 2021 5:04 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Elnegron wrote:Trade him to Miami and we fix his shortcomings. Let’s be honest,cavs development suck big time. The only thing that u guys got going on is that u draft low and maximize the draft position with the exception of the big Canadian dude I forget his name. Player development is key with young players. Sexton has star potential, he just need the right place


Cavs development is 'area specific'. They are extremely good at developing shooting in players--hence why they keep taking 'gym rats' like Sexton/Okoro because they are confident they can turn them into serviceable shooters. They are just horrible at teaching fundamentals and getting players to mentally progress and situational awareness. It seems like our young players play like young players for far too long into their careers. You cant still be making rookie mistakes in your 3rd and 4th years--which nearly every Cavs prospect for the last decade has done, including Kyrie.

You and I are on different pages with Sexton. I believe (like ive said on here many times) his shortcomings are not 'fixable'--at least not until he is far more matured. His biggest struggles are defense, BBIQ and playmaking. I am a firm believer that BBIQ and court vision/playmaking are traits in players that you either have, or you dont. Collin has neither and I am skeptical if hes ever going to develop past where he currently is at. Hes going into year 4 and he still hesitates like his brain is receiving a system update whenever he has to make a pass in the offense.

Robinson and Nunn for Sexton who says no.
I think the Cavs should trade Sexton and I'm passing on that deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


For RJ Barrett? 8-)
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 43,874
And1: 25,006
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#111 » by jbk1234 » Thu Jul 1, 2021 5:35 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Cavs development is 'area specific'. They are extremely good at developing shooting in players--hence why they keep taking 'gym rats' like Sexton/Okoro because they are confident they can turn them into serviceable shooters. They are just horrible at teaching fundamentals and getting players to mentally progress and situational awareness. It seems like our young players play like young players for far too long into their careers. You cant still be making rookie mistakes in your 3rd and 4th years--which nearly every Cavs prospect for the last decade has done, including Kyrie.

You and I are on different pages with Sexton. I believe (like ive said on here many times) his shortcomings are not 'fixable'--at least not until he is far more matured. His biggest struggles are defense, BBIQ and playmaking. I am a firm believer that BBIQ and court vision/playmaking are traits in players that you either have, or you dont. Collin has neither and I am skeptical if hes ever going to develop past where he currently is at. Hes going into year 4 and he still hesitates like his brain is receiving a system update whenever he has to make a pass in the offense.

Robinson and Nunn for Sexton who says no.
I think the Cavs should trade Sexton and I'm passing on that deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


For RJ Barrett? 8-)
I'd do it for Barrett. Not for Nunn and Duncan.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers