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Collin Sexton breaks down his own game

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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#41 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:53 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'd want a better player than Patty Mills as the backup PG. There are a number of eligible candidates and the Cavs have the full MLE. I think McConnell out of Indiana or Payne are guys they should try to steal. Neither are restricted nor have they seen a good contract in their careers.

I want nothing to do with Robin Lopez. I'm paying Hatenstein instead.

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Well yeah Mills was just a name I was throwing out there. Somebody whose experienced, somebody who is consistent, ECT. Just give me somebody that knows what they are doing and is not a unproven project.

Also, Hartrnstein seems like a good project but he is not a guy I want to rely on next year, at all. Having him play in limited mins is fine but he isn't exactly who I picture when we are talking about reliable veteran.
I think Lopez sucks pretty reliably. But seriously, I felt like the second unit played better with Hartenstein than it did with McGee and McGee was playing with fewer G League dudes. I'm fine with him as the backup.

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We'll see I am incredibly eager to see how much they shake up the roster this off-season. They said they wanted to add more veterans, let's see who that actually is
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#42 » by Revenged25 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:39 am

The biggest factor going into how the roster shakes out for next year is 100% going to be based on the lottery. Luck with the lottery balls means Sexton might end up moving to coming off the bench, but it also might mean we trade the pick and Love to get an overpaid but better and younger PF in exchange. For example if we draft Suggs as BPA and then trade him + Love for someone that better fills out the roster.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#43 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:09 am

Revenged25 wrote:The biggest factor going into how the roster shakes out for next year is 100% going to be based on the lottery. Luck with the lottery balls means Sexton might end up moving to coming off the bench, but it also might mean we trade the pick and Love to get an overpaid but better and younger PF in exchange. For example if we draft Suggs as BPA and then trade him + Love for someone that better fills out the roster.
Here's the problem, I don't know that such a player exists and/or will be made available. Tobias Harris for Love and Suggs? I'm a definite no on that. Like Philly would need to add considerable value and they don't have it. PF isn't an easy position to fill. It's one of the thinnest in the NBA, especially if, as the Cavs do, you need someone who can shoot some.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#44 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm

Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
toooskies wrote:Sexton's on/off +/- is -1.9, while Garland has a +3.9.

But keep in mind that a) playing Sexton at PG on offense is playing him out of position relative to his skillset, b) not having an NBA-level backup PG meant that Sexton was playing PG (or with a bad PG) far too much whenever Garland wasn't on the floor, and c) Garland was out at the end of the year, so he didn't get much stink from our closing tanking stretch against a bunch of good teams.


Getting a capable backup PG is essential this offseason. Not sure who is out there, maybe even bringing back Delly, but the Cavs investing in competent veteran backups to these young players will be essential. THE most important thing this offseason.

We should really try to match a veteran to every young player we have.

So...

PG) Garland ---> Patty Mills
SG) Okoro ---> Alec Burks
SF) Kuminga---> Taurean Prince
PF) Nance ---> Kevin Love
C) Allen ---> Robin Lopez

6th) Sexton

Those are just examples but thats the structure I would like to see from this team. I know Lamar Stevens and Broderic Thomas are young and there but I would love to see a heavier investment to capable veterans this offseason. Lamar Stevens and Broderic Thomas off the bench arnt winning the Cavs games or raising their ceiling--but guys like Mills and Lopez will and they will also push the young guys in front of them

LOL you can't speak it into existence but you keep on trying.
I'd like to see them grab Cam Payne


We had Cam Payne ... he was one of the 10-day contracts we shuffled through the organization during Collin's rookie season.

I'm not sure why we didn't give Quinn Cook a longer look this season.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#45 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:15 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Getting a capable backup PG is essential this offseason. Not sure who is out there, maybe even bringing back Delly, but the Cavs investing in competent veteran backups to these young players will be essential. THE most important thing this offseason.

We should really try to match a veteran to every young player we have.

So...

PG) Garland ---> Patty Mills
SG) Okoro ---> Alec Burks
SF) Kuminga---> Taurean Prince
PF) Nance ---> Kevin Love
C) Allen ---> Robin Lopez

6th) Sexton

Those are just examples but thats the structure I would like to see from this team. I know Lamar Stevens and Broderic Thomas are young and there but I would love to see a heavier investment to capable veterans this offseason. Lamar Stevens and Broderic Thomas off the bench arnt winning the Cavs games or raising their ceiling--but guys like Mills and Lopez will and they will also push the young guys in front of them

LOL you can't speak it into existence but you keep on trying.
I'd like to see them grab Cam Payne


We had Cam Payne ... he was one of the 10-day contracts we shuffled through the organization during Collin's rookie season.

I'm not sure why we didn't give Quinn Cook a longer look this season.


Lets be honest as well, Payne has been in the league for 6 years and has been with 4 teams and still this season managed to average 8/3/2 on good shooting numbers. He wouldnt be bad but lets not get ahead of ourselves here that Cam Payne is more than just a solid backup.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#46 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:17 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:The biggest factor going into how the roster shakes out for next year is 100% going to be based on the lottery. Luck with the lottery balls means Sexton might end up moving to coming off the bench, but it also might mean we trade the pick and Love to get an overpaid but better and younger PF in exchange. For example if we draft Suggs as BPA and then trade him + Love for someone that better fills out the roster.
Here's the problem, I don't know that such a player exists and/or will be made available. Tobias Harris for Love and Suggs? I'm a definite no on that. Like Philly would need to add considerable value and they don't have it. PF isn't an easy position to fill. It's one of the thinnest in the NBA, especially if, as the Cavs do, you need someone who can shoot some.

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I think people need to come to grips with the fact that Love isnt going anywhere as much as that sucks.

I like him, I really do and think he can be a good player still IF hes healthy. A 100% Healthy Kevin Love I will gladly take to start on this team. A pissed off, angry, temper tantrum throwin, often injured Kevin Love I want no part of.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#47 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:19 pm

Revenged25 wrote:The biggest factor going into how the roster shakes out for next year is 100% going to be based on the lottery. Luck with the lottery balls means Sexton might end up moving to coming off the bench, but it also might mean we trade the pick and Love to get an overpaid but better and younger PF in exchange. For example if we draft Suggs as BPA and then trade him + Love for someone that better fills out the roster.


Oh of course it is, but IDK think the Cavs are in position to give up a top 5 pick in the draft during a rebuild just to get off Love's contract.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#48 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:34 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:The biggest factor going into how the roster shakes out for next year is 100% going to be based on the lottery. Luck with the lottery balls means Sexton might end up moving to coming off the bench, but it also might mean we trade the pick and Love to get an overpaid but better and younger PF in exchange. For example if we draft Suggs as BPA and then trade him + Love for someone that better fills out the roster.
Here's the problem, I don't know that such a player exists and/or will be made available. Tobias Harris for Love and Suggs? I'm a definite no on that. Like Philly would need to add considerable value and they don't have it. PF isn't an easy position to fill. It's one of the thinnest in the NBA, especially if, as the Cavs do, you need someone who can shoot some.

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I think people need to come to grips with the fact that Love isnt going anywhere as much as that sucks.

I like him, I really do and think he can be a good player still IF hes healthy. A 100% Healthy Kevin Love I will gladly take to start on this team. A pissed off, angry, temper tantrum throwin, often injured Kevin Love I want no part of.


I think the Cavs should start Nance. I know the Cavs need to limit Love's minutes to 24mpg. Again, splitting minutes between those two might actually keep them both on the floor.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#49 » by Revenged25 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:35 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:The biggest factor going into how the roster shakes out for next year is 100% going to be based on the lottery. Luck with the lottery balls means Sexton might end up moving to coming off the bench, but it also might mean we trade the pick and Love to get an overpaid but better and younger PF in exchange. For example if we draft Suggs as BPA and then trade him + Love for someone that better fills out the roster.


Oh of course it is, but IDK think the Cavs are in position to give up a top 5 pick in the draft during a rebuild just to get off Love's contract.


Well it's not to get off of his contract, it would be using his contract to match another player that's already been paid and ready to go. Obviously this would be with the thinking that they are committed to Sexton as a starter. I used a a slightly overpaid but better player as an example but it could even be someone that's not overpaid but still has a large contract. Really I'd be looking at a quality-higher end starter that Suggs could be used as the compensation with Love there just to match salaries. Obviously the ideal situation would be someone like Tatum/Ingram etc but that obviously wouldn't work unless Boston was tearing it down or they saw Suggs as an infinitely better fit than BI on the team and could just look for Love to expire in 2 years same as Adams so they could be big players in that FA.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#50 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:58 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Here's the problem, I don't know that such a player exists and/or will be made available. Tobias Harris for Love and Suggs? I'm a definite no on that. Like Philly would need to add considerable value and they don't have it. PF isn't an easy position to fill. It's one of the thinnest in the NBA, especially if, as the Cavs do, you need someone who can shoot some.

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I think people need to come to grips with the fact that Love isnt going anywhere as much as that sucks.

I like him, I really do and think he can be a good player still IF hes healthy. A 100% Healthy Kevin Love I will gladly take to start on this team. A pissed off, angry, temper tantrum throwin, often injured Kevin Love I want no part of.


I think the Cavs should start Nance. I know the Cavs need to limit Love's minutes to 24mpg. Again, splitting minutes between those two might actually keep them both on the floor.


Agreed. I saw in a Athletic article I believe it was that the Cavs are going to do just that. They recognized that Love cannot play 32+ mins per night anymore and stay healthy so their plan is to reduce his mins to keep him healthy. Splitting Love/Nance 24mins per night at the PF position is probably the best way to go for all parties.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#51 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:00 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:The biggest factor going into how the roster shakes out for next year is 100% going to be based on the lottery. Luck with the lottery balls means Sexton might end up moving to coming off the bench, but it also might mean we trade the pick and Love to get an overpaid but better and younger PF in exchange. For example if we draft Suggs as BPA and then trade him + Love for someone that better fills out the roster.


Oh of course it is, but IDK think the Cavs are in position to give up a top 5 pick in the draft during a rebuild just to get off Love's contract.


Well it's not to get off of his contract, it would be using his contract to match another player that's already been paid and ready to go. Obviously this would be with the thinking that they are committed to Sexton as a starter. I used a a slightly overpaid but better player as an example but it could even be someone that's not overpaid but still has a large contract. Really I'd be looking at a quality-higher end starter that Suggs could be used as the compensation with Love there just to match salaries. Obviously the ideal situation would be someone like Tatum/Ingram etc but that obviously wouldn't work unless Boston was tearing it down or they saw Suggs as an infinitely better fit than BI on the team and could just look for Love to expire in 2 years same as Adams so they could be big players in that FA.


I would love any sort of trade scenerio that brings BI to the Cavs. I highly doubt it will happen, but a man can dream
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#52 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:23 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:The biggest factor going into how the roster shakes out for next year is 100% going to be based on the lottery. Luck with the lottery balls means Sexton might end up moving to coming off the bench, but it also might mean we trade the pick and Love to get an overpaid but better and younger PF in exchange. For example if we draft Suggs as BPA and then trade him + Love for someone that better fills out the roster.


Oh of course it is, but IDK think the Cavs are in position to give up a top 5 pick in the draft during a rebuild just to get off Love's contract.


Well it's not to get off of his contract, it would be using his contract to match another player that's already been paid and ready to go. Obviously this would be with the thinking that they are committed to Sexton as a starter. I used a a slightly overpaid but better player as an example but it could even be someone that's not overpaid but still has a large contract. Really I'd be looking at a quality-higher end starter that Suggs could be used as the compensation with Love there just to match salaries. Obviously the ideal situation would be someone like Tatum/Ingram etc but that obviously wouldn't work unless Boston was tearing it down or they saw Suggs as an infinitely better fit than BI on the team and could just look for Love to expire in 2 years same as Adams so they could be big players in that FA.


The problem is that if you're committing to Sexton as a starter, then whoever you replace Love with has to be able to shoot just as well as Love due to spacing. Once you factor in value and contracts, that's a really small list. I just don't think a guy that justifies surrendering a player like Suggs is going to be available.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#53 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:07 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Oh of course it is, but IDK think the Cavs are in position to give up a top 5 pick in the draft during a rebuild just to get off Love's contract.


Well it's not to get off of his contract, it would be using his contract to match another player that's already been paid and ready to go. Obviously this would be with the thinking that they are committed to Sexton as a starter. I used a a slightly overpaid but better player as an example but it could even be someone that's not overpaid but still has a large contract. Really I'd be looking at a quality-higher end starter that Suggs could be used as the compensation with Love there just to match salaries. Obviously the ideal situation would be someone like Tatum/Ingram etc but that obviously wouldn't work unless Boston was tearing it down or they saw Suggs as an infinitely better fit than BI on the team and could just look for Love to expire in 2 years same as Adams so they could be big players in that FA.


The problem is that if you're committing to Sexton as a starter, then whoever you replace Love with has to be able to shoot just as well as Love due to spacing. Once you factor in value and contracts, that's a really small list. I just don't think a guy that justifies surrendering a player like Suggs is going to be available.


Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#54 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:53 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Well it's not to get off of his contract, it would be using his contract to match another player that's already been paid and ready to go. Obviously this would be with the thinking that they are committed to Sexton as a starter. I used a a slightly overpaid but better player as an example but it could even be someone that's not overpaid but still has a large contract. Really I'd be looking at a quality-higher end starter that Suggs could be used as the compensation with Love there just to match salaries. Obviously the ideal situation would be someone like Tatum/Ingram etc but that obviously wouldn't work unless Boston was tearing it down or they saw Suggs as an infinitely better fit than BI on the team and could just look for Love to expire in 2 years same as Adams so they could be big players in that FA.


The problem is that if you're committing to Sexton as a starter, then whoever you replace Love with has to be able to shoot just as well as Love due to spacing. Once you factor in value and contracts, that's a really small list. I just don't think a guy that justifies surrendering a player like Suggs is going to be available.


Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni


That's not the only way Sexland can work, but we do need growth from both players and improved defense.

Why don't we take a look at the BEST defensive team in the league rather than the 29th ranked Trailblazers?

Who the heck do they have playing PF?

Is it supposed to be 6-7 Bogdanovic? 6-4 Royce O'Neale?

Who's got their back if they need more length coming off the bench?

6-7 Niang? 6-8 Ingles?

Those 4 guys shoot 38.5%, 39%, 42.5% and 45.1% from 3pt!!!

Do we need to space the floor? Heck, yes. Every team in this era should be spacing the floor at 4 out of 5 positions.

Jarrett Allen doesn't need to shoot 3's, but he has an equally hard task ... which is to enable those guys to play aggressive defense by bailing them out if their man gets past them.

Portland has some of the same ideas at play with Nurkic, Covington, and Powell ... and guess what?

Their primary starting lineup was actually just as good on defense as Utah's and BETTER offensively.

Sure, tear it up, but we'd be lucky to get to level of either Portland (or Utah) in our rebuild.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#55 » by toooskies » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:03 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Well it's not to get off of his contract, it would be using his contract to match another player that's already been paid and ready to go. Obviously this would be with the thinking that they are committed to Sexton as a starter. I used a a slightly overpaid but better player as an example but it could even be someone that's not overpaid but still has a large contract. Really I'd be looking at a quality-higher end starter that Suggs could be used as the compensation with Love there just to match salaries. Obviously the ideal situation would be someone like Tatum/Ingram etc but that obviously wouldn't work unless Boston was tearing it down or they saw Suggs as an infinitely better fit than BI on the team and could just look for Love to expire in 2 years same as Adams so they could be big players in that FA.


The problem is that if you're committing to Sexton as a starter, then whoever you replace Love with has to be able to shoot just as well as Love due to spacing. Once you factor in value and contracts, that's a really small list. I just don't think a guy that justifies surrendering a player like Suggs is going to be available.


Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni

Two things are facts:
- Garland and Sexton are short for NBA shooting guards
- The Cavs play bad 3-pt defense

From those facts you say it's impossible for two short guys to play good 3pt defense, and maybe it does hurt a little bit. But luckily, we can look at other teams to see how other short guys do on defense together! All 6'1" of Donovan Mitchell and all 6'1" of Mike Conley led the Jazz to 2nd in the league in 3pt defense.

It's definitely within the realm of outcomes that Garland and Sexton never play good defense together, but it's not just because of their combined height and you really need to stop thinking it's impossible to play two small guards together and win.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#56 » by Stillwater » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:02 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Getting a capable backup PG is essential this offseason. Not sure who is out there, maybe even bringing back Delly, but the Cavs investing in competent veteran backups to these young players will be essential. THE most important thing this offseason.

We should really try to match a veteran to every young player we have.

So...

PG) Garland ---> Patty Mills
SG) Okoro ---> Alec Burks
SF) Kuminga---> Taurean Prince
PF) Nance ---> Kevin Love
C) Allen ---> Robin Lopez

6th) Sexton

Those are just examples but thats the structure I would like to see from this team. I know Lamar Stevens and Broderic Thomas are young and there but I would love to see a heavier investment to capable veterans this offseason. Lamar Stevens and Broderic Thomas off the bench arnt winning the Cavs games or raising their ceiling--but guys like Mills and Lopez will and they will also push the young guys in front of them

LOL you can't speak it into existence but you keep on trying.
I'd like to see them grab Cam Payne


I mean they better make it happen or else we are just going to see more of the same next year. How many years are we going to go down the road of trying to make Garland/Sexton a thing before we pull the plug.

This roster/team needs a shakeup and staggering Garland/Sexton is the type of shakeup we need.

maybe when DG steps up his game enough to match Sexton they can justify it, but I don't disagree the pairing is going to be difficult in a lot of ways, just not for the same reasons you think.
I would not be surprised if they have the op to pick any of Cade,Suggs,Green,or Barnes that whoever it is steals DG's minutes without significant improvement from DG and significant drop off from Sexton. Over stealing Sextons in the starting line up. **** I would not be surprised if Okoro steals DG's minutes and plays next to Sexton starting and they let DG be the 6th man because he can get the scrubs involved and create easier looks for himself against lesser defenders.
But then again this org probably aint that smart
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#57 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:43 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The problem is that if you're committing to Sexton as a starter, then whoever you replace Love with has to be able to shoot just as well as Love due to spacing. Once you factor in value and contracts, that's a really small list. I just don't think a guy that justifies surrendering a player like Suggs is going to be available.


Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni


That's not the only way Sexland can work, but we do need growth from both players and improved defense.

Why don't we take a look at the BEST defensive team in the league rather than the 29th ranked Trailblazers?

Who the heck do they have playing PF?

Is it supposed to be 6-7 Bogdanovic? 6-4 Royce O'Neale?

Who's got their back if they need more length coming off the bench?

6-7 Niang? 6-8 Ingles?

Those 4 guys shoot 38.5%, 39%, 42.5% and 45.1% from 3pt!!!

Do we need to space the floor? Heck, yes. Every team in this era should be spacing the floor at 4 out of 5 positions.

Jarrett Allen doesn't need to shoot 3's, but he has an equally hard task ... which is to enable those guys to play aggressive defense by bailing them out if their man gets past them.

Portland has some of the same ideas at play with Nurkic, Covington, and Powell ... and guess what?

Their primary starting lineup was actually just as good on defense as Utah's and BETTER offensively.

Sure, tear it up, but we'd be lucky to get to level of either Portland (or Utah) in our rebuild.


Thats what Im saying, why try to pigeon hole ourselves into what make only 3 teams in the NBA playoff teams with POR, UTA and TOR. Why not try to take the easier, more traditional route and have a more balanced roster with no quirks of playing 2 6'1" guards at the same time.

What makes UTA great is like you said, they are all really good defensively and they can all shoot the 3 (outside of Gobert)--they also have really good coaching and system. The Cavs have none of that. They have the homeless mans version of that. Just because the roster construction looks the same, doesnt mean it performs the same.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#58 » by LivingLegend » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:54 pm

toooskies wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The problem is that if you're committing to Sexton as a starter, then whoever you replace Love with has to be able to shoot just as well as Love due to spacing. Once you factor in value and contracts, that's a really small list. I just don't think a guy that justifies surrendering a player like Suggs is going to be available.


Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni

Two things are facts:
- Garland and Sexton are short for NBA shooting guards
- The Cavs play bad 3-pt defense

From those facts you say it's impossible for two short guys to play good 3pt defense, and maybe it does hurt a little bit. But luckily, we can look at other teams to see how other short guys do on defense together! All 6'1" of Donovan Mitchell and all 6'1" of Mike Conley led the Jazz to 2nd in the league in 3pt defense.

It's definitely within the realm of outcomes that Garland and Sexton never play good defense together, but it's not just because of their combined height and you really need to stop thinking it's impossible to play two small guards together and win.


I think where I deviate from a lot of people is areas that can be improved in a players game and areas that cant.

I (personally) believe that defense is something a player has or doesnt. Sure its possible to get slightly better to work your way up from bad to being average but I firmly believe its nearly impossible for a player to go from being horrible (where DG/Sexton are now) to good. Call me a pessimist but neither of those 2 are ever going to be plus defenders in their careers.

I also (personally) believe that playmaking is another trait that you have or you dont. Ive never seen a player for as long as I watched the NBA that all of a sudden had great IQ, court vision and passing skills in 1-2 offseasons. It just doesnt happen.

Im not saying it will never work, but forcing Sexton/Garland to become a 'thing' just because a whopping 3 teams in the NBA have had success with it is stupid and a uphill battle the Cavs will be fighting until they cut the cord. I just hope they dont waste too many more seasons before they get to that point.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#59 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:19 am

toooskies wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The problem is that if you're committing to Sexton as a starter, then whoever you replace Love with has to be able to shoot just as well as Love due to spacing. Once you factor in value and contracts, that's a really small list. I just don't think a guy that justifies surrendering a player like Suggs is going to be available.


Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni

Two things are facts:
- Garland and Sexton are short for NBA shooting guards
- The Cavs play bad 3-pt defense

From those facts you say it's impossible for two short guys to play good 3pt defense, and maybe it does hurt a little bit. But luckily, we can look at other teams to see how other short guys do on defense together! All 6'1" of Donovan Mitchell and all 6'1" of Mike Conley led the Jazz to 2nd in the league in 3pt defense.

It's definitely within the realm of outcomes that Garland and Sexton never play good defense together, but it's not just because of their combined height and you really need to stop thinking it's impossible to play two small guards together and win.
Conley has been a good defender for his entire career and the Jazz pushed DM to get better on that end. If people want to use the one example where having two undersized guards worked, they're free to do so. But there are a lot more examples where it didn't.

Also, Sexton's defense isn't almost good or even almost okay. It's bad and he's shown no interest in improving it. I have no problem telling him we'll pay him if he shows real strides on that end. But I have no interest in extending him before he's shown he gets that defense is half the game.

That, quite frankly, is the problem. It's one thing to to be asked to hang in there with a player on his rookie deal. It's quite another to be asked to commit $100M to him when his game is still where it is on one end of the court.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#60 » by JonFromVA » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:16 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni


That's not the only way Sexland can work, but we do need growth from both players and improved defense.

Why don't we take a look at the BEST defensive team in the league rather than the 29th ranked Trailblazers?

Who the heck do they have playing PF?

Is it supposed to be 6-7 Bogdanovic? 6-4 Royce O'Neale?

Who's got their back if they need more length coming off the bench?

6-7 Niang? 6-8 Ingles?

Those 4 guys shoot 38.5%, 39%, 42.5% and 45.1% from 3pt!!!

Do we need to space the floor? Heck, yes. Every team in this era should be spacing the floor at 4 out of 5 positions.

Jarrett Allen doesn't need to shoot 3's, but he has an equally hard task ... which is to enable those guys to play aggressive defense by bailing them out if their man gets past them.

Portland has some of the same ideas at play with Nurkic, Covington, and Powell ... and guess what?

Their primary starting lineup was actually just as good on defense as Utah's and BETTER offensively.

Sure, tear it up, but we'd be lucky to get to level of either Portland (or Utah) in our rebuild.


Thats what Im saying, why try to pigeon hole ourselves into what make only 3 teams in the NBA playoff teams with POR, UTA and TOR. Why not try to take the easier, more traditional route and have a more balanced roster with no quirks of playing 2 6'1" guards at the same time.

What makes UTA great is like you said, they are all really good defensively and they can all shoot the 3 (outside of Gobert)--they also have really good coaching and system. The Cavs have none of that. They have the homeless mans version of that. Just because the roster construction looks the same, doesnt mean it performs the same.


We can always change course when there's an opportunity to improve, but we need talent first and foremost and time/opportunity for it to develop.

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