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Collin Sexton breaks down his own game

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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#61 » by JonFromVA » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:32 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
toooskies wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni

Two things are facts:
- Garland and Sexton are short for NBA shooting guards
- The Cavs play bad 3-pt defense

From those facts you say it's impossible for two short guys to play good 3pt defense, and maybe it does hurt a little bit. But luckily, we can look at other teams to see how other short guys do on defense together! All 6'1" of Donovan Mitchell and all 6'1" of Mike Conley led the Jazz to 2nd in the league in 3pt defense.

It's definitely within the realm of outcomes that Garland and Sexton never play good defense together, but it's not just because of their combined height and you really need to stop thinking it's impossible to play two small guards together and win.


I think where I deviate from a lot of people is areas that can be improved in a players game and areas that cant.

I (personally) believe that defense is something a player has or doesnt. Sure its possible to get slightly better to work your way up from bad to being average but I firmly believe its nearly impossible for a player to go from being horrible (where DG/Sexton are now) to good. Call me a pessimist but neither of those 2 are ever going to be plus defenders in their careers.

I also (personally) believe that playmaking is another trait that you have or you dont. Ive never seen a player for as long as I watched the NBA that all of a sudden had great IQ, court vision and passing skills in 1-2 offseasons. It just doesnt happen.

Im not saying it will never work, but forcing Sexton/Garland to become a 'thing' just because a whopping 3 teams in the NBA have had success with it is stupid and a uphill battle the Cavs will be fighting until they cut the cord. I just hope they dont waste too many more seasons before they get to that point.


Even some of the dumbest player can learn an offensive and defensive system in a couple of years. In other words players don't have to do everything with raw talent.

The Cavs #1 problem is we never stick with anything long enough and build a foundation.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#62 » by LivingLegend » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:36 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Which is why, the path of least resistance to forming a competitive team is by making Sexton a 6th man. You have to nail a whole lotta other stuff and reconstruct your roster if your hellbent on the whole 'Sexland' thing. Its doing nothing but creating a lot of unnecessary hoops to jump through during a rebuild.

The model the Cavs are copying (Blazers) just got beat again in the 1st round of the playoffs and is about to be broken apart. Really hope the Cavs FO is taking notes on roster construction.

If there are any Sexland supporters out there (Stillwater) please tell me a Pros/Cons list of them being on the court together.

Pros: More dynamic in small ball lineups
Cons: The Cavs still lose, Garland gets to play make far less, the halfcourt offense is slow as molasses, defense is abused on the wings, the perimeter defense is horrible, it makes the defense terrible, people are forced to play out of position to compensate, guarding the other team is impossible with two undersized guards sharing the floor for big mins. and LASTLY-- it makes the defense atrocious.

The only way for 'Sexland' to work is 1) If both players average 26+ppg 2) The Cavs finish top 5 in shot attempts per game and 3) They hire Mike Dantoni

Two things are facts:
- Garland and Sexton are short for NBA shooting guards
- The Cavs play bad 3-pt defense

From those facts you say it's impossible for two short guys to play good 3pt defense, and maybe it does hurt a little bit. But luckily, we can look at other teams to see how other short guys do on defense together! All 6'1" of Donovan Mitchell and all 6'1" of Mike Conley led the Jazz to 2nd in the league in 3pt defense.

It's definitely within the realm of outcomes that Garland and Sexton never play good defense together, but it's not just because of their combined height and you really need to stop thinking it's impossible to play two small guards together and win.
Conley has been a good defender for his entire career and the Jazz pushed DM to get better on that end. If people want to use the one example where having two undersized guards worked, they're free to do so. But there are a lot more examples where it didn't.

Also, Sexton's defense isn't almost good or even almost okay. It's bad and he's shown no interest in improving it. I have no problem telling him we'll pay him if he shows real strides on that end. But I have no interest in extending him before he's shown he gets that defense is half the game.

That, quite frankly, is the problem. It's one thing to to be asked to hang in there with a player on his rookie deal. It's quite another to be asked to commit $100M to him when his game is still where it is on one end of the court.

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The problem with Sextons defense is not effort related. He is trying, he is just still terrible because he is a low BBIQ player on both ends. He sees the game very slow and is more of a 'read and react' type of player on both ends who plays with zero (and I mean zero) anticipation. He doesnt see the next move, he only sees whats coming at him and thats where he is terrible in those high screen situations.

Thats also where I say Sexton is never going to get better because his skillset is maxed out right now. The 1 thing he has to do to take that next step is becoming a more cerebral player and controlling the game more but Im of firm belief that low BBIQ players dont magically turn into high BBIQ players.

Sextons low BBIQ is going to forever hinder him going to that next level and going from a player who puts up nice raw stats on a bad team, to a franchise player who wins you games because of how he plays.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#63 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:30 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:Two things are facts:
- Garland and Sexton are short for NBA shooting guards
- The Cavs play bad 3-pt defense

From those facts you say it's impossible for two short guys to play good 3pt defense, and maybe it does hurt a little bit. But luckily, we can look at other teams to see how other short guys do on defense together! All 6'1" of Donovan Mitchell and all 6'1" of Mike Conley led the Jazz to 2nd in the league in 3pt defense.

It's definitely within the realm of outcomes that Garland and Sexton never play good defense together, but it's not just because of their combined height and you really need to stop thinking it's impossible to play two small guards together and win.
Conley has been a good defender for his entire career and the Jazz pushed DM to get better on that end. If people want to use the one example where having two undersized guards worked, they're free to do so. But there are a lot more examples where it didn't.

Also, Sexton's defense isn't almost good or even almost okay. It's bad and he's shown no interest in improving it. I have no problem telling him we'll pay him if he shows real strides on that end. But I have no interest in extending him before he's shown he gets that defense is half the game.

That, quite frankly, is the problem. It's one thing to to be asked to hang in there with a player on his rookie deal. It's quite another to be asked to commit $100M to him when his game is still where it is on one end of the court.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


The problem with Sextons defense is not effort related. He is trying, he is just still terrible because he is a low BBIQ player on both ends. He sees the game very slow and is more of a 'read and react' type of player on both ends who plays with zero (and I mean zero) anticipation. He doesnt see the next move, he only sees whats coming at him and thats where he is terrible in those high screen situations.

Thats also where I say Sexton is never going to get better because his skillset is maxed out right now. The 1 thing he has to do to take that next step is becoming a more cerebral player and controlling the game more but Im of firm belief that low BBIQ players dont magically turn into high BBIQ players.

Sextons low BBIQ is going to forever hinder him going to that next level and going from a player who puts up nice raw stats on a bad team, to a franchise player who wins you games because of how he plays.
I'd say he's a very instinctive player and that makes it harder to coach him up. He trusts his instincts even when they betray him. I also suspect he's somewhat resistant to being told he needs to do things differently when he sees those things working out for him individually. But, I don't buy that his performance on the defensive end is unrelated to effort or interest. He could get better on that end if he prioritized it.

That would involve things like going over screens to deny the three point attempt even if it meant he couldn't stay in front of his player on the drive. It would mean not leaving good shooters to show without actually helping on defense. It would mean helping secure the defensive rebound on long misses even if it means giving up 4-6 fast break ppg.

He could study film to learn other players tendencies. I was pissed when I read he refused to even watch the playoffs. If anyone needs to watch to see what good team basketball looks like on the defensive end, and how it impacts outcomes, it's Sexton.

He got better at distributing the ball once he saw Garland improve enough that he started to worry. I think he can do all those things I mentioned, but the organization needs to make clear to him that he needs to if he wants to continue to start here and get paid what he wants to get paid. Frankly, I'm concerned that his agent might not be giving him good advice.

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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#64 » by LivingLegend » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:49 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Conley has been a good defender for his entire career and the Jazz pushed DM to get better on that end. If people want to use the one example where having two undersized guards worked, they're free to do so. But there are a lot more examples where it didn't.

Also, Sexton's defense isn't almost good or even almost okay. It's bad and he's shown no interest in improving it. I have no problem telling him we'll pay him if he shows real strides on that end. But I have no interest in extending him before he's shown he gets that defense is half the game.

That, quite frankly, is the problem. It's one thing to to be asked to hang in there with a player on his rookie deal. It's quite another to be asked to commit $100M to him when his game is still where it is on one end of the court.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


The problem with Sextons defense is not effort related. He is trying, he is just still terrible because he is a low BBIQ player on both ends. He sees the game very slow and is more of a 'read and react' type of player on both ends who plays with zero (and I mean zero) anticipation. He doesnt see the next move, he only sees whats coming at him and thats where he is terrible in those high screen situations.

Thats also where I say Sexton is never going to get better because his skillset is maxed out right now. The 1 thing he has to do to take that next step is becoming a more cerebral player and controlling the game more but Im of firm belief that low BBIQ players dont magically turn into high BBIQ players.

Sextons low BBIQ is going to forever hinder him going to that next level and going from a player who puts up nice raw stats on a bad team, to a franchise player who wins you games because of how he plays.
I'd say he's a very instinctive player and that makes it harder to coach him up. He trusts his instincts even when they betray him. I also suspect he's somewhat resistant to being told he needs to do things differently when he sees those things working out for him individually. But, I don't buy that his performance on the defensive end is unrelated to effort or interest. He could get better on that end if he prioritized it.

That would involve things like going over screens to deny the three point attempt even if it meant he couldn't stay in front of his player on the drive. It would mean not leaving good shooters to show without actually helping on defense. It would mean helping secure the defensive rebound on long misses even if it means giving up 4-6 fast break ppg.

He could study film to learn other players tendencies. I was pissed when I read he refused to even watch the playoffs. If anyone needs to watch to see what good team basketball looks like on the defensive end, and how it impacts outcomes, it's Sexton.

He got better at distributing the ball once he saw Garland improve enough that he started to worry. I think he can do all those things I mentioned, but the organization needs to make clear to him that he needs to if he wants to continue to start here and get paid what he wants to get paid. Frankly, I'm concerned that his agent might not be giving him good advice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


good point. It just goes back to the BBIQ thing. He has a very Jordan Clarkson/Russell Westbrook level BBIQ. What your basically saying is that he doesnt have a high BBIQ and that leads to problems because he doesnt understand the game. Either way, I dont see this ending well. I have a feeling he views himself and his agent views him as a longterm starting PG with borderline All Star qualities, but the Cavs (should) view him as a spark plug off the bench. Its either going to result in him getting traded or him getting massively overpaid.

Sexton needs to show that HE is the guy who can raise all ships and that the TEAM performs better when he is out there. Not just him getting a bunch of raw stats while other guys stand around watching the high P&R all day long.

They are going to reference the deal Fox got and go from there, but I dont think he is worth near that money
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#65 » by Stillwater » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:45 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
The problem with Sextons defense is not effort related. He is trying, he is just still terrible because he is a low BBIQ player on both ends. He sees the game very slow and is more of a 'read and react' type of player on both ends who plays with zero (and I mean zero) anticipation. He doesnt see the next move, he only sees whats coming at him and thats where he is terrible in those high screen situations.

Thats also where I say Sexton is never going to get better because his skillset is maxed out right now. The 1 thing he has to do to take that next step is becoming a more cerebral player and controlling the game more but Im of firm belief that low BBIQ players dont magically turn into high BBIQ players.

Sextons low BBIQ is going to forever hinder him going to that next level and going from a player who puts up nice raw stats on a bad team, to a franchise player who wins you games because of how he plays.
I'd say he's a very instinctive player and that makes it harder to coach him up. He trusts his instincts even when they betray him. I also suspect he's somewhat resistant to being told he needs to do things differently when he sees those things working out for him individually. But, I don't buy that his performance on the defensive end is unrelated to effort or interest. He could get better on that end if he prioritized it.

That would involve things like going over screens to deny the three point attempt even if it meant he couldn't stay in front of his player on the drive. It would mean not leaving good shooters to show without actually helping on defense. It would mean helping secure the defensive rebound on long misses even if it means giving up 4-6 fast break ppg.

He could study film to learn other players tendencies. I was pissed when I read he refused to even watch the playoffs. If anyone needs to watch to see what good team basketball looks like on the defensive end, and how it impacts outcomes, it's Sexton.

He got better at distributing the ball once he saw Garland improve enough that he started to worry. I think he can do all those things I mentioned, but the organization needs to make clear to him that he needs to if he wants to continue to start here and get paid what he wants to get paid. Frankly, I'm concerned that his agent might not be giving him good advice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


good point. It just goes back to the BBIQ thing. He has a very Jordan Clarkson/Russell Westbrook level BBIQ. What your basically saying is that he doesnt have a high BBIQ and that leads to problems because he doesnt understand the game. Either way, I dont see this ending well. I have a feeling he views himself and his agent views him as a longterm starting PG with borderline All Star qualities, but the Cavs (should) view him as a spark plug off the bench. Its either going to result in him getting traded or him getting massively overpaid.

Sexton needs to show that HE is the guy who can raise all ships and that the TEAM performs better when he is out there. Not just him getting a bunch of raw stats while other guys stand around watching the high P&R all day long.

They are going to reference the deal Fox got and go from there, but I dont think he is worth near that money

Booker and Mitchell are having quite a bit of success as similar players on teams with elite spacing role players... there is not reason to think Sexton cannot be that guy on a better roster. I personally hope he leaves and makes Cavs fans like you eat crow for the rest of his career.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#66 » by LivingLegend » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:03 pm

Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'd say he's a very instinctive player and that makes it harder to coach him up. He trusts his instincts even when they betray him. I also suspect he's somewhat resistant to being told he needs to do things differently when he sees those things working out for him individually. But, I don't buy that his performance on the defensive end is unrelated to effort or interest. He could get better on that end if he prioritized it.

That would involve things like going over screens to deny the three point attempt even if it meant he couldn't stay in front of his player on the drive. It would mean not leaving good shooters to show without actually helping on defense. It would mean helping secure the defensive rebound on long misses even if it means giving up 4-6 fast break ppg.

He could study film to learn other players tendencies. I was pissed when I read he refused to even watch the playoffs. If anyone needs to watch to see what good team basketball looks like on the defensive end, and how it impacts outcomes, it's Sexton.

He got better at distributing the ball once he saw Garland improve enough that he started to worry. I think he can do all those things I mentioned, but the organization needs to make clear to him that he needs to if he wants to continue to start here and get paid what he wants to get paid. Frankly, I'm concerned that his agent might not be giving him good advice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


good point. It just goes back to the BBIQ thing. He has a very Jordan Clarkson/Russell Westbrook level BBIQ. What your basically saying is that he doesnt have a high BBIQ and that leads to problems because he doesnt understand the game. Either way, I dont see this ending well. I have a feeling he views himself and his agent views him as a longterm starting PG with borderline All Star qualities, but the Cavs (should) view him as a spark plug off the bench. Its either going to result in him getting traded or him getting massively overpaid.

Sexton needs to show that HE is the guy who can raise all ships and that the TEAM performs better when he is out there. Not just him getting a bunch of raw stats while other guys stand around watching the high P&R all day long.

They are going to reference the deal Fox got and go from there, but I dont think he is worth near that money

Booker and Mitchell are having quite a bit of success as similar players on teams with elite spacing role players... there is not reason to think Sexton cannot be that guy on a better roster. I personally hope he leaves and makes Cavs fans like you eat crow for the rest of his career.


Sexton has nowhere near the fluidity or natural shot making ability of Devin Booker. Both Mitchell and Booker can pull up and shoot off dribble, Sexton has to set his feet and go straight up. This is, again, a skill that I believe players possess or dont possess.

Both Mitchell and Bookers ability to shoot off-balance and make contested shots off the dribble is a massive skill that Sexton does not have. Not that he cant get there, but hes nowhere close yet. Garland has the skill to pull up off the dribble from all 3 levels.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#67 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:30 pm

Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'd say he's a very instinctive player and that makes it harder to coach him up. He trusts his instincts even when they betray him. I also suspect he's somewhat resistant to being told he needs to do things differently when he sees those things working out for him individually. But, I don't buy that his performance on the defensive end is unrelated to effort or interest. He could get better on that end if he prioritized it.

That would involve things like going over screens to deny the three point attempt even if it meant he couldn't stay in front of his player on the drive. It would mean not leaving good shooters to show without actually helping on defense. It would mean helping secure the defensive rebound on long misses even if it means giving up 4-6 fast break ppg.

He could study film to learn other players tendencies. I was pissed when I read he refused to even watch the playoffs. If anyone needs to watch to see what good team basketball looks like on the defensive end, and how it impacts outcomes, it's Sexton.

He got better at distributing the ball once he saw Garland improve enough that he started to worry. I think he can do all those things I mentioned, but the organization needs to make clear to him that he needs to if he wants to continue to start here and get paid what he wants to get paid. Frankly, I'm concerned that his agent might not be giving him good advice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


good point. It just goes back to the BBIQ thing. He has a very Jordan Clarkson/Russell Westbrook level BBIQ. What your basically saying is that he doesnt have a high BBIQ and that leads to problems because he doesnt understand the game. Either way, I dont see this ending well. I have a feeling he views himself and his agent views him as a longterm starting PG with borderline All Star qualities, but the Cavs (should) view him as a spark plug off the bench. Its either going to result in him getting traded or him getting massively overpaid.

Sexton needs to show that HE is the guy who can raise all ships and that the TEAM performs better when he is out there. Not just him getting a bunch of raw stats while other guys stand around watching the high P&R all day long.

They are going to reference the deal Fox got and go from there, but I dont think he is worth near that money

Booker and Mitchell are having quite a bit of success as similar players on teams with elite spacing role players... there is not reason to think Sexton cannot be that guy on a better roster. I personally hope he leaves and makes Cavs fans like you eat crow for the rest of his career.
Booker has a fundamentally different game than Sexton and is taller. It makes a really big difference whether your primary scorer is dragging opposing defenses out to the perimeter or having them pack the paint. I don't think Ayton/Sexton would be anywhere near as successful as Ayton/Booker.

Mitchell wasn't as bad as Sexton on the defensive end. The Jazz didn't post three consecutive 20 win seasons after drafting Mitchell. I don't believe that Sexton will ever be as good as Mithchell on either end of the floor, but if he could get to 80% on the defensive end, I'd be happy with that.

He needs to make a pretty big jump on that end this upcoming season to be the guy that influences other roster moves. Hopefully the Cavs insist on it before paying him.

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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#68 » by Stillwater » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:57 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
good point. It just goes back to the BBIQ thing. He has a very Jordan Clarkson/Russell Westbrook level BBIQ. What your basically saying is that he doesnt have a high BBIQ and that leads to problems because he doesnt understand the game. Either way, I dont see this ending well. I have a feeling he views himself and his agent views him as a longterm starting PG with borderline All Star qualities, but the Cavs (should) view him as a spark plug off the bench. Its either going to result in him getting traded or him getting massively overpaid.

Sexton needs to show that HE is the guy who can raise all ships and that the TEAM performs better when he is out there. Not just him getting a bunch of raw stats while other guys stand around watching the high P&R all day long.

They are going to reference the deal Fox got and go from there, but I dont think he is worth near that money

Booker and Mitchell are having quite a bit of success as similar players on teams with elite spacing role players... there is not reason to think Sexton cannot be that guy on a better roster. I personally hope he leaves and makes Cavs fans like you eat crow for the rest of his career.
Booker has a fundamentally different game than Sexton and is taller. It makes a really big difference whether your primary scorer is dragging opposing defenses out to the perimeter or having them pack the paint. I don't think Ayton/Sexton would be anywhere near as successful as Ayton/Booker.

Mitchell wasn't as bad as Sexton on the defensive end. The Jazz didn't post three consecutive 20 win seasons after drafting Mitchell. I don't believe that Sexton will ever be as good as Mithchell on either end of the floor, but if he could get to 80% on the defensive end, I'd be happy with that.

He needs to make a pretty big jump on that end this upcoming season to be the guy that influences other roster moves. Hopefully the Cavs insist on it before paying him.

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Irrelevant to your argument and more relevant to mine
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#69 » by Stillwater » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:58 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
good point. It just goes back to the BBIQ thing. He has a very Jordan Clarkson/Russell Westbrook level BBIQ. What your basically saying is that he doesnt have a high BBIQ and that leads to problems because he doesnt understand the game. Either way, I dont see this ending well. I have a feeling he views himself and his agent views him as a longterm starting PG with borderline All Star qualities, but the Cavs (should) view him as a spark plug off the bench. Its either going to result in him getting traded or him getting massively overpaid.

Sexton needs to show that HE is the guy who can raise all ships and that the TEAM performs better when he is out there. Not just him getting a bunch of raw stats while other guys stand around watching the high P&R all day long.

They are going to reference the deal Fox got and go from there, but I dont think he is worth near that money

Booker and Mitchell are having quite a bit of success as similar players on teams with elite spacing role players... there is not reason to think Sexton cannot be that guy on a better roster. I personally hope he leaves and makes Cavs fans like you eat crow for the rest of his career.


Sexton has nowhere near the fluidity or natural shot making ability of Devin Booker. Both Mitchell and Booker can pull up and shoot off dribble, Sexton has to set his feet and go straight up. This is, again, a skill that I believe players possess or dont possess.

Both Mitchell and Bookers ability to shoot off-balance and make contested shots off the dribble is a massive skill that Sexton does not have. Not that he cant get there, but hes nowhere close yet. Garland has the skill to pull up off the dribble from all 3 levels.

Your eye test analysis sucks
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#70 » by LivingLegend » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:01 pm

Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Booker and Mitchell are having quite a bit of success as similar players on teams with elite spacing role players... there is not reason to think Sexton cannot be that guy on a better roster. I personally hope he leaves and makes Cavs fans like you eat crow for the rest of his career.


Sexton has nowhere near the fluidity or natural shot making ability of Devin Booker. Both Mitchell and Booker can pull up and shoot off dribble, Sexton has to set his feet and go straight up. This is, again, a skill that I believe players possess or dont possess.

Both Mitchell and Bookers ability to shoot off-balance and make contested shots off the dribble is a massive skill that Sexton does not have. Not that he cant get there, but hes nowhere close yet. Garland has the skill to pull up off the dribble from all 3 levels.

Your eye test analysis sucks


Its not a eye test, its facts. Nobody outside of Garland and Dotson on the Cavs can shoot off the dribble. Every other player from Sexton, Okoro, Nance, Love, Osman are ALL stand still shooters. It really hinders the offense and opportunities to score when 85% of your lineup has to have their feet completely set to take a shot.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#71 » by Stillwater » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:15 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Sexton has nowhere near the fluidity or natural shot making ability of Devin Booker. Both Mitchell and Booker can pull up and shoot off dribble, Sexton has to set his feet and go straight up. This is, again, a skill that I believe players possess or dont possess.

Both Mitchell and Bookers ability to shoot off-balance and make contested shots off the dribble is a massive skill that Sexton does not have. Not that he cant get there, but hes nowhere close yet. Garland has the skill to pull up off the dribble from all 3 levels.

Your eye test analysis sucks


Its not a eye test, its facts. Nobody outside of Garland and Dotson on the Cavs can shoot off the dribble. Every other player from Sexton, Okoro, Nance, Love, Osman are ALL stand still shooters. It really hinders the offense and opportunities to score when 85% of your lineup has to have their feet completely set to take a shot.

Now I know You are a troll... carry on I am putting you on the ignoranmous list
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#72 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:32 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Booker and Mitchell are having quite a bit of success as similar players on teams with elite spacing role players... there is not reason to think Sexton cannot be that guy on a better roster. I personally hope he leaves and makes Cavs fans like you eat crow for the rest of his career.
Booker has a fundamentally different game than Sexton and is taller. It makes a really big difference whether your primary scorer is dragging opposing defenses out to the perimeter or having them pack the paint. I don't think Ayton/Sexton would be anywhere near as successful as Ayton/Booker.

Mitchell wasn't as bad as Sexton on the defensive end. The Jazz didn't post three consecutive 20 win seasons after drafting Mitchell. I don't believe that Sexton will ever be as good as Mithchell on either end of the floor, but if he could get to 80% on the defensive end, I'd be happy with that.

He needs to make a pretty big jump on that end this upcoming season to be the guy that influences other roster moves. Hopefully the Cavs insist on it before paying him.

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Irrelevant to your argument and more relevant to mine
Sexton has played the most minutes, most games, and had the most FGAs three years running. There really isn't a close second. Hes been the constant.

You say he hasn't been surrounded by talented players. I agree. So you'd expect his +/- numbers to be through the roof, but that's not how it's worked out.

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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#73 » by toooskies » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:09 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Booker has a fundamentally different game than Sexton and is taller. It makes a really big difference whether your primary scorer is dragging opposing defenses out to the perimeter or having them pack the paint. I don't think Ayton/Sexton would be anywhere near as successful as Ayton/Booker.

Mitchell wasn't as bad as Sexton on the defensive end. The Jazz didn't post three consecutive 20 win seasons after drafting Mitchell. I don't believe that Sexton will ever be as good as Mithchell on either end of the floor, but if he could get to 80% on the defensive end, I'd be happy with that.

He needs to make a pretty big jump on that end this upcoming season to be the guy that influences other roster moves. Hopefully the Cavs insist on it before paying him.

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Irrelevant to your argument and more relevant to mine
Sexton has played the most minutes, most games, and had the most FGAs three years running. There really isn't a close second. Hes been the constant.

You say he hasn't been surrounded by talented players. I agree. So you'd expect his +/- numbers to be through the roof, but that's not how it's worked out.

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Booker had a negative +/- in two of the first three years of his career, too.
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#74 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:01 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Irrelevant to your argument and more relevant to mine
Sexton has played the most minutes, most games, and had the most FGAs three years running. There really isn't a close second. Hes been the constant.

You say he hasn't been surrounded by talented players. I agree. So you'd expect his +/- numbers to be through the roof, but that's not how it's worked out.

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Booker had a negative +/- in two of the first three years of his career, too.
Even if you give guys on bad teams whatever the average starter on their team is when it comes to +/- due to the other team's starters being better, etc., the delta here is bigger than that. You're taking about three years in a row, across many different combinations of starters and backups. Sexton was the worse starter on the court last season in terms of on/off. Even Okoro did better in his rookie year.



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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#75 » by Stillwater » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:54 pm

Sexton can only prove he can be that guy on another roster imo because this one aint it
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#76 » by LivingLegend » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:06 pm

Stillwater wrote:Sexton can only prove he can be that guy on another roster imo because this one aint it


I mean, what does a team built around Collin Sexton look like?
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#77 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:02 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Sexton can only prove he can be that guy on another roster imo because this one aint it


I mean, what does a team built around Collin Sexton look like?
It has 4 really good defenders who can also shoot from 3 and rebound very well so he doesn't have to worry about those things.

Or, you sit him down and tell him if he wants to get paid, he has to worry about those things.

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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#78 » by LivingLegend » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:12 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Sexton can only prove he can be that guy on another roster imo because this one aint it


I mean, what does a team built around Collin Sexton look like?
It has 4 really good defenders who can also shoot from 3 and rebound very well so he doesn't have to worry about those things.

Or, you sit him down and tell him if he wants to get paid, he has to worry about those things.

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I like your thinking. I don't hate the kid or the player he is, I just hate how overinflated his impact seems to be among some fans and hopefully (not) the front office
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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#79 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:30 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
I mean, what does a team built around Collin Sexton look like?
It has 4 really good defenders who can also shoot from 3 and rebound very well so he doesn't have to worry about those things.

Or, you sit him down and tell him if he wants to get paid, he has to worry about those things.

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I like your thinking. I don't hate the kid or the player he is, I just hate how overinflated his impact seems to be among some fans and hopefully (not) the front office
Exactly. I didn't think he'd ever actually make a point to get his teammates involved in the offense, but once people started talking about it being Garland's team he made it a priority. If you tell him playing defense, rebounding, and the rest are also things he needs to do to get paid, the learning curve will get a lot less steep.

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Re: Collin Sexton breaks down his own game 

Post#80 » by Stillwater » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:11 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:It has 4 really good defenders who can also shoot from 3 and rebound very well so he doesn't have to worry about those things.

Or, you sit him down and tell him if he wants to get paid, he has to worry about those things.

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I like your thinking. I don't hate the kid or the player he is, I just hate how overinflated his impact seems to be among some fans and hopefully (not) the front office
Exactly. I didn't think he'd ever actually make a point to get his teammates involved in the offense, but once people started talking about it being Garland's team he made it a priority. If you tell him playing defense, rebounding, and the rest are also things he needs to do to get paid, the learning curve will get a lot less steep.

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he always has gone beyond whatever the coaches have asked of him,unless he could not do it physically.the problem with Sexton exists mostly in the minds of fans not the org or the players or him. get over it
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