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Culture setter.

would like too see some of these from all the Cavs players

Stillwater wrote:would like too see some of these from all the Cavs players

The Windler one would be like "I sit on the perimeter, nobody passes me the ball. I rebound well, and get hurt a lot. Just biding my time because at some point in the next 3-6 years I will be a key rotation player on a team making a deep playoffs run."

Harper4Ferry? wrote:

Stillwater wrote:would like too see some of these from all the Cavs players

The Windler one would be like "I sit on the perimeter, nobody passes me the ball. I rebound well, and get hurt a lot. Just biding my time because at some point in the next 3-6 years I will be a key rotation player on a team making a deep playoffs run."

he didnt play enough with the starters to know how good he could have been for them imo.
DG would have gotten him the ball better than Cedi or Dotson.
I hate the fact he is always hurt though and don't think he will ever be part of the team before they dump him only to have him ball out somewhere else too. He needs to come into training camp on fire and earn heavy reps and be able to maintain it so he stays in the top 8 of the rotation otherwise I bet they dump him next season.

Harper4Ferry? wrote:

Stillwater wrote:would like too see some of these from all the Cavs players

The Windler one would be like "I sit on the perimeter, nobody passes me the ball. I rebound well, and get hurt a lot. Just biding my time because at some point in the next 3-6 years I will be a key rotation player on a team making a deep playoffs run."

Dylan Windler is the next Joe Harris/Danny Green.

The Cavs will undoubtedly give up on him via trade or contract expiration. Im calling that shot now.

LivingLegend wrote:

Harper4Ferry? wrote:

Stillwater wrote:would like too see some of these from all the Cavs players

The Windler one would be like "I sit on the perimeter, nobody passes me the ball. I rebound well, and get hurt a lot. Just biding my time because at some point in the next 3-6 years I will be a key rotation player on a team making a deep playoffs run."

Dylan Windler is the next Joe Harris/Danny Green.

The Cavs will undoubtedly give up on him via trade or contract expiration. Im calling that shot now.

Small sample size, but the guy shot 34% from three this year. Needs work!

toooskies wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Harper4Ferry? wrote:
The Windler one would be like "I sit on the perimeter, nobody passes me the ball. I rebound well, and get hurt a lot. Just biding my time because at some point in the next 3-6 years I will be a key rotation player on a team making a deep playoffs run."

Dylan Windler is the next Joe Harris/Danny Green.

The Cavs will undoubtedly give up on him via trade or contract expiration. Im calling that shot now.

Small sample size, but the guy shot 34% from three this year. Needs work!

Joe Harris shot 36% and 25% from three his only 2 years with the Cavs. He now shoots 47%. Sometime guys just need time and opportunity....and in Windlers case, health and confidence.

toooskies wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Harper4Ferry? wrote:
The Windler one would be like "I sit on the perimeter, nobody passes me the ball. I rebound well, and get hurt a lot. Just biding my time because at some point in the next 3-6 years I will be a key rotation player on a team making a deep playoffs run."

Dylan Windler is the next Joe Harris/Danny Green.

The Cavs will undoubtedly give up on him via trade or contract expiration. Im calling that shot now.

Small sample size, but the guy shot 34% from three this year. Needs work!

Dylan needs something like a normal Summer and pre-season to feel comfortable and get integrated ... then hopefully we'll see what he can do shooting the ball. He looked nervous when he did shoot, a far cry from the guy we thought we drafted The nice thing is he was finding other ways to try to help the team.

He finished with a +3.1 net +/- but a big chunk of that was likely the power of not playing while his teammates lost 20 in a row.

JonFromVA wrote:

toooskies wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:
Dylan Windler is the next Joe Harris/Danny Green.

The Cavs will undoubtedly give up on him via trade or contract expiration. Im calling that shot now.

Small sample size, but the guy shot 34% from three this year. Needs work!

Dylan needs something like a normal Summer and pre-season to feel comfortable and get integrated ... then hopefully we'll see what he can do shooting the ball. He looked nervous when he did shoot, a far cry from the guy we thought we drafted The nice thing is he was finding other ways to try to help the team.

He finished with a +3.1 net +/- but a big chunk of that was likely the power of not playing while his teammates lost 20 in a row.

I mean lets be honest too, the Cavs NEED Windler to have a breakout sort of year in 2021. He needs it, the Cavs need it. They desperatly need a guy on the perimeter like him who can shoot high volume at a high% to take pressure off Okoro/Sexton who arnt natural shooters.

I need Garland shooting 9-10 threes per game and I need Windler shooting 7-8 per game. Both around 40%. Thats what the Cavs need.

LivingLegend wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

toooskies wrote:
Small sample size, but the guy shot 34% from three this year. Needs work!

Dylan needs something like a normal Summer and pre-season to feel comfortable and get integrated ... then hopefully we'll see what he can do shooting the ball. He looked nervous when he did shoot, a far cry from the guy we thought we drafted The nice thing is he was finding other ways to try to help the team.

He finished with a +3.1 net +/- but a big chunk of that was likely the power of not playing while his teammates lost 20 in a row.

I mean lets be honest too, the Cavs NEED Windler to have a breakout sort of year in 2021. He needs it, the Cavs need it. They desperatly need a guy on the perimeter like him who can shoot high volume at a high% to take pressure off Okoro/Sexton who arnt natural shooters.

I need Garland shooting 9-10 threes per game and I need Windler shooting 7-8 per game. Both around 40%. Thats what the Cavs need.

It's all about building confidence ... in their moves, in their shot, in their conditioning, and staying healthy long enough to get there. Shooting is something easily thrown off by the sore elbows, twisted ankles, and busted knees that come with the game.

But proper floor spacing would sure make things a whole lot easier. As wonderful as it would be if Garland broke out and started playing with the confidence of Curry or Lillard, and Windler started firing them up like Kyle Korver; they could both get a lot closer to where you want if the team was able to generate more open looks.

Speaking of the toll of injuries, here's an interesting fun fact.

Remember when DeAndre Hunter of the Hawks was tearing up the league early in the season? It was just 18 games he played before getting hurt, and just 5 games he played since; but in that time his stats have all plummeted back down to earth. In the record books, he will go down as 15 & 5 on 32.6 3pt% and still very nice 60.3 TS%. In the playoffs, he's been pretty meh, so far, at least on offense.

If we're honest, we've seen similar things go on with the Cavs ... players who seemed to start putting things together, then took a big step back after an injury. Larry Nance and Jarrett Allen were two of the more dramatic examples, but Kevin, Collin, and Darius were all effected to various extents.

LivingLegend wrote:

Harper4Ferry? wrote:

Stillwater wrote:would like too see some of these from all the Cavs players

The Windler one would be like "I sit on the perimeter, nobody passes me the ball. I rebound well, and get hurt a lot. Just biding my time because at some point in the next 3-6 years I will be a key rotation player on a team making a deep playoffs run."

Dylan Windler is the next Joe Harris/Danny Green.

The Cavs will undoubtedly give up on him via trade or contract expiration. Im calling that shot now.

I assume they won't pick his 4th year option up. They'll cite flexibility or some other nonsense.

As far as the dumped shooters go, I wonder how good Kapono would be in the modern NBA era. He shot 43% for his career. We let him go in the expansion draft for nothing after he shot 47% as a rookie. Granted it was a very limited amount of attempts but still. Seems like I'd have rather have had him around in the LeBron 1.0 era instead of Damon Jones or Donyell Marshall.

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Dylan needs something like a normal Summer and pre-season to feel comfortable and get integrated ... then hopefully we'll see what he can do shooting the ball. He looked nervous when he did shoot, a far cry from the guy we thought we drafted The nice thing is he was finding other ways to try to help the team.

He finished with a +3.1 net +/- but a big chunk of that was likely the power of not playing while his teammates lost 20 in a row.

I mean lets be honest too, the Cavs NEED Windler to have a breakout sort of year in 2021. He needs it, the Cavs need it. They desperatly need a guy on the perimeter like him who can shoot high volume at a high% to take pressure off Okoro/Sexton who arnt natural shooters.

I need Garland shooting 9-10 threes per game and I need Windler shooting 7-8 per game. Both around 40%. Thats what the Cavs need.

It's all about building confidence ... in their moves, in their shot, in their conditioning, and staying healthy long enough to get there. Shooting is something easily thrown off by the sore elbows, twisted ankles, and busted knees that come with the game.

But proper floor spacing would sure make things a whole lot easier. As wonderful as it would be if Garland broke out and started playing with the confidence of Curry or Lillard, and Windler started firing them up like Kyle Korver; they could both get a lot closer to where you want if the team was able to generate more open looks.

Speaking of the toll of injuries, here's an interesting fun fact.

Remember when DeAndre Hunter of the Hawks was tearing up the league early in the season? It was just 18 games he played before getting hurt, and just 5 games he played since; but in that time his stats have all plummeted back down to earth. In the record books, he will go down as 15 & 5 on 32.6 3pt% and still very nice 60.3 TS%. In the playoffs, he's been pretty meh, so far, at least on offense.

If we're honest, we've seen similar things go on with the Cavs ... players who seemed to start putting things together, then took a big step back after an injury. Larry Nance and Jarrett Allen were two of the more dramatic examples, but Kevin, Collin, and Darius were all effected to various extents.

I have the most confidence of anyone to believe that Garland will take that next step this upcoming year. He finally started to play with that confidence a ton in the 2nd half of the year until he got hurt.

I think his 3rd year is when he starts to put it all together. When he's 'on' he's extremely exciting to watch.

LivingLegend wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:
I mean lets be honest too, the Cavs NEED Windler to have a breakout sort of year in 2021. He needs it, the Cavs need it. They desperatly need a guy on the perimeter like him who can shoot high volume at a high% to take pressure off Okoro/Sexton who arnt natural shooters.

I need Garland shooting 9-10 threes per game and I need Windler shooting 7-8 per game. Both around 40%. Thats what the Cavs need.

It's all about building confidence ... in their moves, in their shot, in their conditioning, and staying healthy long enough to get there. Shooting is something easily thrown off by the sore elbows, twisted ankles, and busted knees that come with the game.

But proper floor spacing would sure make things a whole lot easier. As wonderful as it would be if Garland broke out and started playing with the confidence of Curry or Lillard, and Windler started firing them up like Kyle Korver; they could both get a lot closer to where you want if the team was able to generate more open looks.

Speaking of the toll of injuries, here's an interesting fun fact.

Remember when DeAndre Hunter of the Hawks was tearing up the league early in the season? It was just 18 games he played before getting hurt, and just 5 games he played since; but in that time his stats have all plummeted back down to earth. In the record books, he will go down as 15 & 5 on 32.6 3pt% and still very nice 60.3 TS%. In the playoffs, he's been pretty meh, so far, at least on offense.

If we're honest, we've seen similar things go on with the Cavs ... players who seemed to start putting things together, then took a big step back after an injury. Larry Nance and Jarrett Allen were two of the more dramatic examples, but Kevin, Collin, and Darius were all effected to various extents.

I have the most confidence of anyone to believe that Garland will take that next step this upcoming year. He finally started to play with that confidence a ton in the 2nd half of the year until he got hurt.

I think his 3rd year is when he starts to put it all together. When he's 'on' he's extremely exciting to watch.

Yep, he was 20 & 7 in April. Unfortunately, we can't dismiss future injuries ... just cross our fingers.

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
It's all about building confidence ... in their moves, in their shot, in their conditioning, and staying healthy long enough to get there. Shooting is something easily thrown off by the sore elbows, twisted ankles, and busted knees that come with the game.

But proper floor spacing would sure make things a whole lot easier. As wonderful as it would be if Garland broke out and started playing with the confidence of Curry or Lillard, and Windler started firing them up like Kyle Korver; they could both get a lot closer to where you want if the team was able to generate more open looks.

Speaking of the toll of injuries, here's an interesting fun fact.

Remember when DeAndre Hunter of the Hawks was tearing up the league early in the season? It was just 18 games he played before getting hurt, and just 5 games he played since; but in that time his stats have all plummeted back down to earth. In the record books, he will go down as 15 & 5 on 32.6 3pt% and still very nice 60.3 TS%. In the playoffs, he's been pretty meh, so far, at least on offense.

If we're honest, we've seen similar things go on with the Cavs ... players who seemed to start putting things together, then took a big step back after an injury. Larry Nance and Jarrett Allen were two of the more dramatic examples, but Kevin, Collin, and Darius were all effected to various extents.

I have the most confidence of anyone to believe that Garland will take that next step this upcoming year. He finally started to play with that confidence a ton in the 2nd half of the year until he got hurt.

I think his 3rd year is when he starts to put it all together. When he's 'on' he's extremely exciting to watch.

Yep, he was 20 & 7 in April. Unfortunately, we can't dismiss future injuries ... just cross our fingers.

Collin was 24 & 6 in May...

Revenged25 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:
I have the most confidence of anyone to believe that Garland will take that next step this upcoming year. He finally started to play with that confidence a ton in the 2nd half of the year until he got hurt.

I think his 3rd year is when he starts to put it all together. When he's 'on' he's extremely exciting to watch.

Yep, he was 20 & 7 in April. Unfortunately, we can't dismiss future injuries ... just cross our fingers.

Collin was 24 & 6 in May...

Collin was 26 & 3.5 with 61.8 TS% in April. More assists for Collin makes sense when Darius isn't around to run the offense, but nothing wrong with more scoring on better efficiency when they're both available.

Revenged25 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:
I have the most confidence of anyone to believe that Garland will take that next step this upcoming year. He finally started to play with that confidence a ton in the 2nd half of the year until he got hurt.

I think his 3rd year is when he starts to put it all together. When he's 'on' he's extremely exciting to watch.

Yep, he was 20 & 7 in April. Unfortunately, we can't dismiss future injuries ... just cross our fingers.

Collin was 24 & 6 in May...

Honestly, there is something about Sexton that just bothers me. You look at his stats and go 'wow this guy is good' then you watch the Cavs play and look at their record and go 'is this guy contributing to winning?'

I think his impact is that of a poor mans Westbrook. His stats look pretty but when you watch the games there is something hollow there.

Watching Garland play, you can tell he makes the team better. The offensive flow is so much better, guys are getting involved easily with his drive/kicks and P&R. It all just looks.....smoother and more like a good NBA offense with Garland.

LivingLegend wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

toooskies wrote:
Small sample size, but the guy shot 34% from three this year. Needs work!

Dylan needs something like a normal Summer and pre-season to feel comfortable and get integrated ... then hopefully we'll see what he can do shooting the ball. He looked nervous when he did shoot, a far cry from the guy we thought we drafted The nice thing is he was finding other ways to try to help the team.

He finished with a +3.1 net +/- but a big chunk of that was likely the power of not playing while his teammates lost 20 in a row.

I mean lets be honest too, the Cavs NEED Windler to have a breakout sort of year in 2021. He needs it, the Cavs need it. They desperatly need a guy on the perimeter like him who can shoot high volume at a high% to take pressure off Okoro/Sexton who arnt natural shooters.

I need Garland shooting 9-10 threes per game and I need Windler shooting 7-8 per game. Both around 40%. Thats what the Cavs need.

I dont think anyone is expecting Windler to be a starter at this point and having a breakout season would mean he that kind of run imo.
I think maybe you are using break out season differently than most people do so there is that understanding but overall he has proven only one thing since being drafted: he is injury prone. Joe Harris was not and tbh he is the exception to the rule as it pertains to players becoming elite shooters not the expectation from Windler. Bar is too high imo.
Windler was a really high iq system player in college who makes good reads and cuts and understands how to play in a system with heavy ball movement and would fit in great on a team that actually used that instead of having to rely on Sexton to get his own or DG to throw some Lobs to a 7 footer but there are very few teams that play "good basketball" with any success in the playoffs without 4 Windlers all of whom that can be a Sexton when the system fails...DG will never shoot that much as a floor general

JonFromVA wrote:

Revenged25 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Yep, he was 20 & 7 in April. Unfortunately, we can't dismiss future injuries ... just cross our fingers.

Collin was 24 & 6 in May...

Collin was 26 & 3.5 with 61.8 TS% in April. More assists for Collin makes sense when Darius isn't around to run the offense, but nothing wrong with more scoring on better efficiency when they're both available.

That too, I just figured I used the last numbers.

Also Booker is obviously taller than Sexton, it looks like the Cavs are actually being built to resemble the Suns more so than the Trailblazers. Primary scoring option out of the SG Booker/Sexton, secondary scorer/facilitator out of the PG CP3/Garland, defensive 3/4s Bridges & Crowder/Okoro & Nance, though the biggest difference is between Ayton/Allen where both are able to defend the paint and rebound Ayton is a better scorer, though Okoro has potential to make up that difference. From there the difference comes down to the bench which we simply just lack due to health/talent.

LivingLegend wrote:

Revenged25 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Yep, he was 20 & 7 in April. Unfortunately, we can't dismiss future injuries ... just cross our fingers.

Collin was 24 & 6 in May...

Honestly, there is something about Sexton that just bothers me. You look at his stats and go 'wow this guy is good' then you watch the Cavs play and look at their record and go 'is this guy contributing to winning?'

I think his impact is that of a poor mans Westbrook. His stats look pretty but when you watch the games there is something hollow there.

Watching Garland play, you can tell he makes the team better. The offensive flow is so much better, guys are getting involved easily with his drive/kicks and P&R. It all just looks.....smoother and more like a good NBA offense with Garland.

Hopefully all our young players have some more gears they can kick it in to as they develop, because as things sit now? The level of production isn't all that great.

I'm not a big fan of box score derived stats like BPM or PER, but because of our team problems, it's at least somewhat interesting. The good news is that both Collin and Darius's BPM have improved. The bad news is that Sexton's is 0.0 and Garland's is -1.6. What's interesting about that is that it's telling us that inspite of Collin stuffing the stat sheet nicely in some areas, overall, he's playing like a decent starter or a solid 6th man. Darius is still bench level.

You know who else in the league has a 0 BPM? ... Devin Booker.

If our guys get to the point where Mitchell (+3.5) and Conley (+4.4) are in Utah ... we might have something.

I'd also be happy with Lillard (+5.9) and McCollum (+3.3).

And it's not just that this stat hates players on losing teams, De'Aaron Fox was +1.4 and Tyrese Haliburton was +1.1.

Hopefully Garland and Sexton take a step up in that neighborhood next year? To get much higher, I think we need a lot of team synergy stuff to start clicking, perhaps helping them improve their efficiency, and generate more assists. Steals, rebounds, blocks? Probably not too much room for improvement there.

JonFromVA wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Revenged25 wrote:
Collin was 24 & 6 in May...

Honestly, there is something about Sexton that just bothers me. You look at his stats and go 'wow this guy is good' then you watch the Cavs play and look at their record and go 'is this guy contributing to winning?'

I think his impact is that of a poor mans Westbrook. His stats look pretty but when you watch the games there is something hollow there.

Watching Garland play, you can tell he makes the team better. The offensive flow is so much better, guys are getting involved easily with his drive/kicks and P&R. It all just looks.....smoother and more like a good NBA offense with Garland.

Hopefully all our young players have some more gears they can kick it in to as they develop, because as things sit now? The level of production isn't all that great.

I'm not a big fan of box score derived stats like BPM or PER, but because of our team problems, it's at least somewhat interesting. The good news is that both Collin and Darius's BPM have improved. The bad news is that Sexton's is 0.0 and Garland's is -1.6. What's interesting about that is that it's telling us that inspite of Collin stuffing the stat sheet nicely in some areas, overall, he's playing like a decent starter or a solid 6th man. Darius is still bench level.

You know who else in the league has a 0 BPM? ... Devin Booker.

If our guys get to the point where Mitchell (+3.5) and Conley (+4.4) are in Utah ... we might have something.

I'd also be happy with Lillard (+5.9) and McCollum (+3.3).

And it's not just that this stat hates players on losing teams, De'Aaron Fox was +1.4 and Tyrese Haliburton was +1.1.

Hopefully Garland and Sexton take a step up in that neighborhood next year? To get much higher, I think we need a lot of team synergy stuff to start clicking, perhaps helping them improve their efficiency, and generate more assists. Steals, rebounds, blocks? Probably not too much room for improvement there.

What's the delta between +/- and BPM? Without even looking, I bet it exists and I bet it's significant.

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