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2021-22 regular season thread

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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1401 » by jbk1234 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:34 pm

JonFromVA wrote:Let's not be too quick to jump to conclusions after this team's first taste of playoff-level competition.

For instance, in spite of how ugly LeVert looked trying to score in the paint he still added 7 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals.

We pretty much have to play better across the board, it's amazing the game was as close as it was.

As for Isaac, I'm still hoping our patience with him will eventually be rewarded. I mean, I'd hope he at least would have the same kind of impact that Bruce Brown did for the Nets, but Brown as a rookie 4 years ago was older than Isaac is now. Same for another comp ... Matisse Thybulle.

I wish we could have seen Collin in this environment, but it's possible he would have been driving recklessly in the paint and turning the ball over too.


Fair point regarding Okoro's age, but I think the Cavs need to ask themselves whether they can continue to allow him to develop as a starter if his shooting doesn't markedly improve by next season. I don't think the sample size of facing four defenders in or around the paint is limited. I think it's pretty vast - stretching back all the way to last season unless Hartenstein and/or Love was on the floor. The Cavs probably need to ask themselves whether facing those types of defenses night in and night out is good for Mobley's development at some point.

Again, your best players are your best players. You can't have every wing on the roster preferring to score within 15 feet of the basket unless you're starting Vuc or Gasol at center. The Cavs F.O. needs be clear eyed about that.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1402 » by JonFromVA » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:10 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Let's not be too quick to jump to conclusions after this team's first taste of playoff-level competition.

For instance, in spite of how ugly LeVert looked trying to score in the paint he still added 7 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals.

We pretty much have to play better across the board, it's amazing the game was as close as it was.

As for Isaac, I'm still hoping our patience with him will eventually be rewarded. I mean, I'd hope he at least would have the same kind of impact that Bruce Brown did for the Nets, but Brown as a rookie 4 years ago was older than Isaac is now. Same for another comp ... Matisse Thybulle.

I wish we could have seen Collin in this environment, but it's possible he would have been driving recklessly in the paint and turning the ball over too.


We'll see--Okoros I feel like is just settling at this point and its worrysome. Like, he doesnt even try to get involved in the offense. Its like he knows his role and stays away from it. I dont know if he can magically turn it around in one offseason.

Either way, get me a 6'9" beefcake with a 40" vertical on the wing next season. Somebody, anybody. I cant keep watching Cedi/Lauri look like turnstiles on the perimeter because they dont have the strength or footspeed to guard anybody.

I keep going back to Grant. How do we get a guy like that on this team. I need that. I need itttttt. TJ Warren is a FA this offseason. Maybe go after him and hope he can regain his form being healthy now


Isaac is not integrated in to this offense, that's plainly clear ... but there's lots of ways that can change. The most immediate things would be getting Jarrett back, and get Isaac another game playing under the bright lights.

And while we may not earn it, there are some advantages to playing a full playoff series .vs. these one off games and that's the ability to adjust and grow game to game as a player watches film, learns the guys on the other team, and adjusts.

Or doesn't ...

Of course I'm always open to improving the roster and I'm sure Altman will be kicking a lot of tires this Summer, but like I said in another post all our value right now is in players we don't want to trade. We can't assume another team will trade us something of value for something that's not of value.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1403 » by JonFromVA » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Let's not be too quick to jump to conclusions after this team's first taste of playoff-level competition.

For instance, in spite of how ugly LeVert looked trying to score in the paint he still added 7 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals.

We pretty much have to play better across the board, it's amazing the game was as close as it was.

As for Isaac, I'm still hoping our patience with him will eventually be rewarded. I mean, I'd hope he at least would have the same kind of impact that Bruce Brown did for the Nets, but Brown as a rookie 4 years ago was older than Isaac is now. Same for another comp ... Matisse Thybulle.

I wish we could have seen Collin in this environment, but it's possible he would have been driving recklessly in the paint and turning the ball over too.


Fair point regarding Okoro's age, but I think the Cavs need to ask themselves whether they can continue to allow him to develop as a starter if his shooting doesn't markedly improve by next season. I don't think the sample size of facing four defenders in or around the paint is limited. I think it's pretty vast - stretching back all the way to last season unless Hartenstein and/or Love was on the floor. The Cavs probably need to ask themselves whether facing those types of defenses night in and night out is good for Mobley's development at some point.

Again, your best players are your best players. You can't have every wing on the roster preferring to score within 15 feet of the basket unless you're starting Vuc or Gasol at center. The Cavs F.O. needs be clear eyed about that.


Sure, there's a point Isaac could be dropped as a starter. It might even happen as soon as Friday if Jarrett is activated, but I'm not making long-term decisions on what does or does not work with our starting lineup when that starting lineup is missing key players, just got back from an injury, not integrated yet, etc, etc.

I'm more than happy to let the numbers tell me what's working and what's not working.

Speaking of, 82games.com is not updated very often anymore, but they did just update their numbers for the regular season. Lots of interesting stats to start assimilating. For instance, Garland has not been an efficient scorer in clutch time. Two players who have been efficient in the clutch are Allen and Markkenen. Of course someone has to get them the ball ...
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1404 » by LivingLegend » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:20 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Let's not be too quick to jump to conclusions after this team's first taste of playoff-level competition.

For instance, in spite of how ugly LeVert looked trying to score in the paint he still added 7 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals.

We pretty much have to play better across the board, it's amazing the game was as close as it was.

As for Isaac, I'm still hoping our patience with him will eventually be rewarded. I mean, I'd hope he at least would have the same kind of impact that Bruce Brown did for the Nets, but Brown as a rookie 4 years ago was older than Isaac is now. Same for another comp ... Matisse Thybulle.

I wish we could have seen Collin in this environment, but it's possible he would have been driving recklessly in the paint and turning the ball over too.


Fair point regarding Okoro's age, but I think the Cavs need to ask themselves whether they can continue to allow him to develop as a starter if his shooting doesn't markedly improve by next season. I don't think the sample size of facing four defenders in or around the paint is limited. I think it's pretty vast - stretching back all the way to last season unless Hartenstein and/or Love was on the floor. The Cavs probably need to ask themselves whether facing those types of defenses night in and night out is good for Mobley's development at some point.

Again, your best players are your best players. You can't have every wing on the roster preferring to score within 15 feet of the basket unless you're starting Vuc or Gasol at center. The Cavs F.O. needs be clear eyed about that.


Sure, there's a point Isaac could be dropped as a starter. It might even happen as soon as Friday if Jarrett is activated, but I'm not making long-term decisions on what does or does not work with our starting lineup when that starting lineup is missing key players, just got back from an injury, not integrated yet, etc, etc.


I'm more than happy to let the numbers tell me what's working and what's not working.

Speaking of, 82games.com is not updated very often anymore, but they did just update their numbers for the regular season. Lots of interesting stats to start assimilating. For instance, Garland has not been an efficient scorer in clutch time. Two players who have been efficient in the clutch are Allen and Markkenen. Of course someone has to get them the ball ...


I think if the Cavs want to roll out another year of 3 Bigs in a lineup--the other 2 players on the court have to be playmakers because Lauri/Mobley/Allen all need fed. Its even more reason to bring back Rubio and/or do something at the SG spot. Which is why I lean towards Sexton at SG.

You cant keep putting 4 guys on the court who cant create their own offense and expect Garland to do everything. It worked when we had Rubio because he played 28min--but without another shot creator you are backing yourself into a corner big time.

This team is way too Garland dependent. If he were to go down like Sexton did--you can chalk up their entire season. We need a legitimate 2nd scoring option on the perimeter and a legit SF.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1405 » by jbk1234 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:59 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Fair point regarding Okoro's age, but I think the Cavs need to ask themselves whether they can continue to allow him to develop as a starter if his shooting doesn't markedly improve by next season. I don't think the sample size of facing four defenders in or around the paint is limited. I think it's pretty vast - stretching back all the way to last season unless Hartenstein and/or Love was on the floor. The Cavs probably need to ask themselves whether facing those types of defenses night in and night out is good for Mobley's development at some point.

Again, your best players are your best players. You can't have every wing on the roster preferring to score within 15 feet of the basket unless you're starting Vuc or Gasol at center. The Cavs F.O. needs be clear eyed about that.


Sure, there's a point Isaac could be dropped as a starter. It might even happen as soon as Friday if Jarrett is activated, but I'm not making long-term decisions on what does or does not work with our starting lineup when that starting lineup is missing key players, just got back from an injury, not integrated yet, etc, etc.


I'm more than happy to let the numbers tell me what's working and what's not working.

Speaking of, 82games.com is not updated very often anymore, but they did just update their numbers for the regular season. Lots of interesting stats to start assimilating. For instance, Garland has not been an efficient scorer in clutch time. Two players who have been efficient in the clutch are Allen and Markkenen. Of course someone has to get them the ball ...


I think if the Cavs want to roll out another year of 3 Bigs in a lineup--the other 2 players on the court have to be playmakers because Lauri/Mobley/Allen all need fed. Its even more reason to bring back Rubio and/or do something at the SG spot. Which is why I lean towards Sexton at SG.

You cant keep putting 4 guys on the court who cant create their own offense and expect Garland to do everything. It worked when we had Rubio because he played 28min--but without another shot creator you are backing yourself into a corner big time.

This team is way too Garland dependent. If he were to go down like Sexton did--you can chalk up their entire season. We need a legitimate 2nd scoring option on the perimeter and a legit SF.


It just seems that where on the court we're creating offense matters and it's starting to matter more and more. If we can't stop defenses from collapsing the moments someone drives, then everything is deck chairs on the Titanic.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1406 » by gflem » Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:34 pm

JonFromVA wrote:Let's not be too quick to jump to conclusions after this team's first taste of playoff-level competition.

For instance, in spite of how ugly LeVert looked trying to score in the paint he still added 7 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals.

We pretty much have to play better across the board, it's amazing the game was as close as it was.

As for Isaac, I'm still hoping our patience with him will eventually be rewarded. I mean, I'd hope he at least would have the same kind of impact that Bruce Brown did for the Nets, but Brown as a rookie 4 years ago was older than Isaac is now. Same for another comp ... Matisse Thybulle.

I wish we could have seen Collin in this environment, but it's possible he would have been driving recklessly in the paint and turning the ball over too.

I was thinking the exact same thing. But we do have to acknowledge that Brown is playing off Durant and Kyrie. If Okoro hasn't made some significant progress by the middle of nest season I think my patience will have run out on him. It just sucks that the injuries have derailed the progress this team made this season, it was so much fun watching earlier in the season. I hope Rubio is back next season, and either Sexton or LeVert can be packaged with a pick(s) to upgrade our wing shooting and athleticism.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1407 » by JonFromVA » Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:31 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Fair point regarding Okoro's age, but I think the Cavs need to ask themselves whether they can continue to allow him to develop as a starter if his shooting doesn't markedly improve by next season. I don't think the sample size of facing four defenders in or around the paint is limited. I think it's pretty vast - stretching back all the way to last season unless Hartenstein and/or Love was on the floor. The Cavs probably need to ask themselves whether facing those types of defenses night in and night out is good for Mobley's development at some point.

Again, your best players are your best players. You can't have every wing on the roster preferring to score within 15 feet of the basket unless you're starting Vuc or Gasol at center. The Cavs F.O. needs be clear eyed about that.


Sure, there's a point Isaac could be dropped as a starter. It might even happen as soon as Friday if Jarrett is activated, but I'm not making long-term decisions on what does or does not work with our starting lineup when that starting lineup is missing key players, just got back from an injury, not integrated yet, etc, etc.


I'm more than happy to let the numbers tell me what's working and what's not working.

Speaking of, 82games.com is not updated very often anymore, but they did just update their numbers for the regular season. Lots of interesting stats to start assimilating. For instance, Garland has not been an efficient scorer in clutch time. Two players who have been efficient in the clutch are Allen and Markkenen. Of course someone has to get them the ball ...


I think if the Cavs want to roll out another year of 3 Bigs in a lineup--the other 2 players on the court have to be playmakers because Lauri/Mobley/Allen all need fed. Its even more reason to bring back Rubio and/or do something at the SG spot. Which is why I lean towards Sexton at SG.

You cant keep putting 4 guys on the court who cant create their own offense and expect Garland to do everything. It worked when we had Rubio because he played 28min--but without another shot creator you are backing yourself into a corner big time.

This team is way too Garland dependent. If he were to go down like Sexton did--you can chalk up their entire season. We need a legitimate 2nd scoring option on the perimeter and a legit SF.


Again, I'm data driven and the data says we're ok as long as we have our big 3 in various combinations and that includes JBB's preferred starting lineup with Lauri and Isaac.

There was always a chance we were going to get figured out in the regular season or run smack in to a road block in the playoffs, but we can't know for sure because of the injuries.

And while we've spent a lot of time over the years pondering what the final touches would be to help turn our team in to a championship contender, it's just too early with this group.

We've identified our core ... that's pretty much mission accomplished for the season.

As for our supporting cast, consider for a moment that 6 of them ended up shooting 35% or better from 3pt, and that includes Rondo, Love, Wade, Markkanen, Osman, and even Okoro. While I wouldn't bet on Rondo staying in that list next year, Sexton could re-join it and LeVert has done it in the past and needs to get back there.

As a team, we shot 35.5% from 3pt and actually out-shot our opponents (by a whisker), so, in theory we should be able to exploit opponents who pack the paint on us and it wouldn't hurt if we saw continued shooting improvement and/or volume.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1408 » by jbk1234 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:17 am

Looks like we're playing the Hawks.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1409 » by LivingLegend » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:56 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Looks like we're playing the Hawks.


We are really going to need one of those games where the role players step up. Meaning Cedi having one of his 4/6 shooting night from 3, Stevens pitching in 14+ on drives around the rim and LeVert actually playing with confidence.

If Allen cant play, I wonder if JBB has the balls to play Moses Brown this time around so Capela doesnt eat us alive on lobs/switches/rebounding.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1410 » by jbk1234 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:05 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Looks like we're playing the Hawks.


We are really going to need one of those games where the role players step up. Meaning Cedi having one of his 4/6 shooting night from 3, Stevens pitching in 14+ on drives around the rim and LeVert actually playing with confidence.

If Allen cant play, I wonder if JBB has the balls to play Moses Brown this time around so Capela doesnt eat us alive on lobs/switches/rebounding.


I don't know that playing Brown is going to stop Capela from doing any of that. I mean Brown got sonned by Mo Bamba.

The guy who's going to have to have a game is LeVert. They'll likely have Trae on him. I might even have Garland hang back a little at the three point line to keep Hunter out of the paint. Get Capela rotating and dump it of to one of Mobley or Lauri.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1411 » by LivingLegend » Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:34 pm

Unrelated, but you know a player that popped into my head that I would love to have back here as a backup veteran SF, that fits exactly what we need from a SF.

Jeff Green.

Bring in TJ Warren and Jeff Green in free agency and boom--problem solved

You add size, shooting and defense, both the young/old variety in one swoop that would not break the bank.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1412 » by jbk1234 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:22 am

That was disappointing, and by disappointing I mean I was yelling at the pub, but probably for the best. Altman needs to hit on this pick and then we'll be in the driver's seat.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1413 » by JonFromVA » Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:21 am

Altman has work to do, but the 14th pick isn't changing our ceiling next season.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1414 » by jbk1234 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:28 am

JonFromVA wrote:Altman has work to do, but the 14th pick isn't changing our ceiling next season.


Can the 14th pick shoot from outside?

Can he play back up PG as well as a healthy version of Exum?

If a Vassell or Haliburton fall to us, that could change or ceiling for a long, long time.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1415 » by KuruptedCav » Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:40 am

Painful, but not surprising. The Cavs assembled a transition team that over-achieved and was unable to continue overachieving.

It’s time to move Love as an expiring salary. Lauri will fill the stretch big role adequately.

He can be paired with Okoro, the player drafted, and 2025 & 2027 picks in whatever combinations.

Need a two-way wing, backup PG, and a veteran big in the Kendrick Perkins vein; and need to swing for the fence on the first one.


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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1416 » by jbk1234 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:45 am

KuruptedCav wrote:Painful, but not surprising. The Cavs assembled a transition team that over-achieved and was unable to continue overachieving.

It’s time to move Love as an expiring salary. Lauri will fill the stretch big role adequately.

He can be paired with Okoro, the player drafted, and 2025 & 2027 picks in whatever combinations.

Need a two-way wing, backup PG, and a veteran big in the Kendrick Perkins vein; and need to swing for the fence on the first one.


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I would hope that the LeVert trade has taught the F.O. a lesson on moving expiring contracts just for the sake of moving them. Also, Love and Rondo were two of our best players against the Nets.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1417 » by JonFromVA » Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:42 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Altman has work to do, but the 14th pick isn't changing our ceiling next season.


Can the 14th pick shoot from outside?

Can he play back up PG as well as a healthy version of Exum?

If a Vassell or Haliburton fall to us, that could change or ceiling for a long, long time.


Most likely not next season. Most rooks aren't ready to contribute to winning The bust rate is fairly high as well at 14.

We can hope, but if you set your expectations for this pick to contribute right away, you'll just be setting yourself up to be disappointed.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1418 » by KuruptedCav » Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:02 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Painful, but not surprising. The Cavs assembled a transition team that over-achieved and was unable to continue overachieving.

It’s time to move Love as an expiring salary. Lauri will fill the stretch big role adequately.

He can be paired with Okoro, the player drafted, and 2025 & 2027 picks in whatever combinations.

Need a two-way wing, backup PG, and a veteran big in the Kendrick Perkins vein; and need to swing for the fence on the first one.


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I would hope that the LeVert trade has taught the F.O. a lesson on moving expiring contracts just for the sake of moving them. Also, Love and Rondo were two of our best players against the Nets.

That isn’t what is being suggested.


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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1419 » by cavs4872 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:52 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:Painful, but not surprising. The Cavs assembled a transition team that over-achieved and was unable to continue overachieving.

It’s time to move Love as an expiring salary. Lauri will fill the stretch big role adequately.

He can be paired with Okoro, the player drafted, and 2025 & 2027 picks in whatever combinations.

Need a two-way wing, backup PG, and a veteran big in the Kendrick Perkins vein; and need to swing for the fence on the first one.


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I'm not really convinced this season is something to write off so easily. The Cavs had a really weird illogical situation that worked, and then when you try to normalize it (such as bringing in LeVert), it doesn't work. Markkanen played best as a SF with Mobley and Allen, not as a PF. It kind of reminds me of when Ty Lue was obsessed with playing Jae Crowder at PF until he finally realized it wasn't working.

I mean, we obviously couldn't continue overachieving cause of injuries... I'm still convinced that a healthy opening day roster for this team could contend for a title. The end of this all is just really hard for me to accept cause we were obviously done unfairly - undermanned we go into Brooklyn and lose to KD and Kyrie, and then Trae comes and goes nuclear and then that's the end of the season... like bruh.

I just wanted one damn series of this team with Allen in the lineup to see what this team is truly made of, and we didn't get to see it, and we deserved to -- that's why this all is so hard for me to swallow.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#1420 » by jbk1234 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:22 pm

cavs4872 wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Painful, but not surprising. The Cavs assembled a transition team that over-achieved and was unable to continue overachieving.

It’s time to move Love as an expiring salary. Lauri will fill the stretch big role adequately.

He can be paired with Okoro, the player drafted, and 2025 & 2027 picks in whatever combinations.

Need a two-way wing, backup PG, and a veteran big in the Kendrick Perkins vein; and need to swing for the fence on the first one.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I'm not really convinced this season is something to write off so easily. The Cavs had a really weird illogical situation that worked, and then when you try to normalize it (such as bringing in LeVert), it doesn't work. Markkanen played best as a SF with Mobley and Allen, not as a PF. It kind of reminds me of when Ty Lue was obsessed with playing Jae Crowder at PF until he finally realized it wasn't working.

I mean, we obviously couldn't continue overachieving cause of injuries... I'm still convinced that a healthy opening day roster for this team could contend for a title. The end of this all is just really hard for me to accept cause we were obviously done unfairly - undermanned we go into Brooklyn and lose to KD and Kyrie, and then Trae comes and goes nuclear and then that's the end of the season... like bruh.

I just wanted one damn series of this team with Allen in the lineup to see what this team is truly made of, and we didn't get to see it, and we deserved to -- that's why this all is so hard for me to swallow.


Allen played one-handed last night. He only had three rebounds. I'm actually a bit relieved we didn't win because he would've continued to play hurt against Bam, and I'm inclined to believe the Cavs would've let him, and that would've been stupid.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.

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