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2021 off season thread

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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#641 » by jbk1234 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:19 pm

Not many seems generous tbh:
Read on Twitter
?s=20
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#642 » by JonFromVA » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:22 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I just have to say that fans of teams who want K. Love on the minimum saying we should just wave him on the GB are making me see red. The NBA is very close to being broken, and if Love and his agent get their way on this, that seems like a crossing of the Rubicon to me. Either NBA contracts require players to actually try for the teams that are obligated to pay them, or not. If buy me out for my full $60M with two years left becomes the new normal, there's no way to have a functional league.


The bigger question is whether the Cavs have a role for Kevin. If they do then I don't have a problem with asking him to be a professional and fill it. Then if he wants out, he can give something up.

But if we don't? Or we just want to move on? Well, then he truly is a sunk cost.

Heck, we might even have health insurance on Kevin's contract such that if we play him enough and he gets hurt again, we save money right there.


I mean there's a role in the sense that there will be minutes for him off the bench if he's in shape. That's the same role he'll have on any NBA team. But no team is going to rely on Kevin to give them heavy minutes either starting or coming off the bench at this point because he's been manifestly unreliable.

But the cost isn't truly sunk until he's waved. Then it's just dead cap that can't be traded or combined with other players. The entire notion of a buyout is borderline offensive to begin with when you think about it. Pay me some of salary so I can go work somewhere else is pretty risible before you get to pay me all of my $60M salary, over two years, so I can go play somewhere else.

Think of the precedent that will set. I mean yeah, go ahead and be mad at the Cavs for offering the contract, but Kevin didn't have to sign it if he didn't want to be here for 4 years. He could've asked for three years. We can't get to the point where the norm is veteran players get a huge bag, become unhappy, and think they can keep it regardless of whether they're at least showing up and putting in minimal professional effort. The only players who will sign with us will sign bloated deals for all the wrong reasons (See, e.g. The Kings). And if Schwartz does this to us twice in a row, then every agent in league will be judged against that result and be incentivized to repeat the outcome. We can't be *that* team. We're already the midmarket teams whose beat reporter writes about us having to pay a tax to sign replacement level guys. In the words of Michael Corlone, it's not personal, it's strictly business.


When Kevin's value to the team hits 0 or below 0, I don't have any issue with waiving him. We can't fix the NBA, at that point - all we can do is treat a player who helped us win a championship with respect and hope it helps create some happy moments in the future when we celebrate the anniversary of the championship and protect the team from any more stupid drama.

I'm just not sure we're there, but it sure is smelling like we are which is likely why both of us were upset to hear that Love didn't intend to give up any money on a buyout.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#643 » by JonFromVA » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:24 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Not many seems generous tbh:
Read on Twitter
?s=20


Not having assets has never stopped the Cavs from making trades. Altman will keep kicking tires, and maybe one will pop off the wheel.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#644 » by jbk1234 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:25 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
The bigger question is whether the Cavs have a role for Kevin. If they do then I don't have a problem with asking him to be a professional and fill it. Then if he wants out, he can give something up.

But if we don't? Or we just want to move on? Well, then he truly is a sunk cost.

Heck, we might even have health insurance on Kevin's contract such that if we play him enough and he gets hurt again, we save money right there.


I mean there's a role in the sense that there will be minutes for him off the bench if he's in shape. That's the same role he'll have on any NBA team. But no team is going to rely on Kevin to give them heavy minutes either starting or coming off the bench at this point because he's been manifestly unreliable.

But the cost isn't truly sunk until he's waved. Then it's just dead cap that can't be traded or combined with other players. The entire notion of a buyout is borderline offensive to begin with when you think about it. Pay me some of salary so I can go work somewhere else is pretty risible before you get to pay me all of my $60M salary, over two years, so I can go play somewhere else.

Think of the precedent that will set. I mean yeah, go ahead and be mad at the Cavs for offering the contract, but Kevin didn't have to sign it if he didn't want to be here for 4 years. He could've asked for three years. We can't get to the point where the norm is veteran players get a huge bag, become unhappy, and think they can keep it regardless of whether they're at least showing up and putting in minimal professional effort. The only players who will sign with us will sign bloated deals for all the wrong reasons (See, e.g. The Kings). And if Schwartz does this to us twice in a row, then every agent in league will be judged against that result and be incentivized to repeat the outcome. We can't be *that* team. We're already the midmarket teams whose beat reporter writes about us having to pay a tax to sign replacement level guys. In the words of Michael Corlone, it's not personal, it's strictly business.


When Kevin's value to the team hits 0 or below 0, I don't have any issue with waiving him. We can't fix the NBA, at that point - all we can do is treat a player who helped us win a championship with respect and hope it helps create some happy moments in the future when we celebrate the anniversary of the championship and protect the team from any more stupid drama.

I'm just not sure we're there, but it sure is smelling like we are which is likely why both of us were upset to hear that Love didn't intend to give up any money on a buyout.


Hardest of passes.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#645 » by JonFromVA » Wed Sep 1, 2021 1:27 am

Cavs front court height deemed inadequate ... Altman signed the legendary Tacky Fall on a 1yr non- guaranteed deal.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#646 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:33 am

Tacko Tuesday
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#647 » by KuruptedCav » Wed Sep 1, 2021 11:35 am

Not a fan of Tacko Fall signing. I get that he’s non-guaranteed and it’s one year at minimum money, but adding more raw youth doesn’t move the needle for me.

I guess even Sexton should be able to see home calling for the ball from the post.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#648 » by jbk1234 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 12:58 pm

Who represents Hartenstein?

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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#649 » by KuruptedCav » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:19 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Who represents Hartenstein?

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Mike Naiditch & EJ Kusnyer of Beyond Athlete Management


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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#650 » by LivingLegend » Wed Sep 1, 2021 6:45 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:Not a fan of Tacko Fall signing. I get that he’s non-guaranteed and it’s one year at minimum money, but adding more raw youth doesn’t move the needle for me.

I guess even Sexton should be able to see home calling for the ball from the post.


I really need Altman to do a presser explaining his roster making decisions. I need to see what hes seeing and what his vision or end goal is here.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#651 » by jbk1234 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:03 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Not a fan of Tacko Fall signing. I get that he’s non-guaranteed and it’s one year at minimum money, but adding more raw youth doesn’t move the needle for me.

I guess even Sexton should be able to see home calling for the ball from the post.


I really need Altman to do a presser explaining his roster making decisions. I need to see what hes seeing and what his vision or end goal is here.
Seems pretty obvious at this point that we're trading for Boban next and we'll start five 7 footers.

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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#652 » by JonFromVA » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:06 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Not a fan of Tacko Fall signing. I get that he’s non-guaranteed and it’s one year at minimum money, but adding more raw youth doesn’t move the needle for me.

I guess even Sexton should be able to see home calling for the ball from the post.


I really need Altman to do a presser explaining his roster making decisions. I need to see what hes seeing and what his vision or end goal is here.


You want the Cavaliers to have a vision? Whoa ...
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#653 » by LivingLegend » Wed Sep 1, 2021 8:30 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Not a fan of Tacko Fall signing. I get that he’s non-guaranteed and it’s one year at minimum money, but adding more raw youth doesn’t move the needle for me.

I guess even Sexton should be able to see home calling for the ball from the post.


I really need Altman to do a presser explaining his roster making decisions. I need to see what hes seeing and what his vision or end goal is here.


You want the Cavaliers to have a vision? Whoa ...


It just seems like they are collecting players that have showed even the smallest amount of upside on the waivers hoping to strike gold regardless of positional or skill fit.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#654 » by JonFromVA » Wed Sep 1, 2021 9:22 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
I really need Altman to do a presser explaining his roster making decisions. I need to see what hes seeing and what his vision or end goal is here.


You want the Cavaliers to have a vision? Whoa ...


It just seems like they are collecting players that have showed even the smallest amount of upside on the waivers hoping to strike gold regardless of positional or skill fit.


Well, players on non-guaranteed contracts like Tacko Fall don't represent a vision ... think of him as giving Kabengele some competition, perhaps help our players down at Canton get used to playing with really tall guys, or a contract we can throw in to a deal to eat some salary.

Rubio and Markkenen were options available to us at the right price/length that address obvious problems.

So, what do you want to know?

Does Altman still believe in Isaac? That he can be our starting SF?

Sure, of course he'll say yes.

It's not very exciting, but our goal for the season should be to patch roster holes that were making it harder on our young players. No matter how you look at it, we need to increase the value of our young players because either a) we benefit from it, or b) we can trade them for players that fit better.

Koby can hope another GM will get desperate and give him the opportunity to make a franchise altering move, but without the right assets it's really really hard. Pretty much have to be the last GM standing with something the other GM has decided he has to get.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#655 » by jbk1234 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 11:32 pm

The Tacko thing seems gimmicky. But I don't think the Lauri acquisition is that crazy. We were dead last in made 3s last year.

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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#656 » by LivingLegend » Fri Sep 3, 2021 3:12 pm

jbk1234 wrote:The Tacko thing seems gimmicky. But I don't think the Lauri acquisition is that crazy. We were dead last in made 3s last year.

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The Cavs not even addressing their single biggest need this offseason, rather subtracting from it (Prince) and leaving the cupboard completely bare in headscratching to say the least. But hey, at least we added 2 more 7fters to our already existing 2 7fters
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#657 » by JonFromVA » Fri Sep 3, 2021 3:55 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Tacko thing seems gimmicky. But I don't think the Lauri acquisition is that crazy. We were dead last in made 3s last year.


The Cavs not even addressing their single biggest need this offseason, rather subtracting from it (Prince) and leaving the cupboard completely bare in headscratching to say the least. But hey, at least we added 2 more 7fters to our already existing 2 7fters


Well, he didn't address Sexland and if the trade offers that have been rumored to date are legit, it's easy to understand why. Technically Ben Simmons hasn't been moved and supposedly the Cavs have discussed trading for him. So, Altman could still make a move if an opportunity arises.

As for the small forward spot, we still have a lot of options even without Prince. Waiting to see if Okoro improves his defense against taller players as well as his shooting is not an unreasonable thing to do with such a young player.

In the meanwhile, JBB has the option to use Windler, Osman, Mobley, Markennen, and Stevens at SF.

If you believe like I do that Mobley has reset the timeline of our rebuild, it's not unreasonable to continue pouring minutes in to our young players rather than overpaying for a stopgap (Dillon Brooks) or an even worse prospect that just happens to be 6'8" (Reddish).

So, really it just depends what you expect from this season. My goals are pretty low. I just hope they stay healthy enough to have some continuity, be able to try out different lineups and really learn what's the best way to use the players they've got. At least get a sniff of the potential upside if we move one way .vs. another.

If/when Mobley is ready to help a team win ... might be 2-5 years down the road .. that's when we need to make sure we have the right players in place.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#658 » by jbk1234 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 7:30 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Tacko thing seems gimmicky. But I don't think the Lauri acquisition is that crazy. We were dead last in made 3s last year.

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The Cavs not even addressing their single biggest need this offseason, rather subtracting from it (Prince) and leaving the cupboard completely bare in headscratching to say the least. But hey, at least we added 2 more 7fters to our already existing 2 7fters
I mean Lauri can shoot from range and I'd argue that backup PG & SG were huge needs. They went one for two on that front.

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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#659 » by LivingLegend » Sun Sep 5, 2021 1:36 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Tacko thing seems gimmicky. But I don't think the Lauri acquisition is that crazy. We were dead last in made 3s last year.

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The Cavs not even addressing their single biggest need this offseason, rather subtracting from it (Prince) and leaving the cupboard completely bare in headscratching to say the least. But hey, at least we added 2 more 7fters to our already existing 2 7fters
I mean Lauri can shoot from range and I'd argue that backup PG & SG were huge needs. They went one for two on that front.

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I mean I'm just coming from the standpoint of the league revolves and is driven around versatile perimeter players and the Cavs decided to build their team around undersized PGs and a slew of 7ft big men.

Just seems like they are operating out of a different 'how to build a good team in 2021' book than 95% of the league
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#660 » by jbk1234 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 2:45 am

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
The Cavs not even addressing their single biggest need this offseason, rather subtracting from it (Prince) and leaving the cupboard completely bare in headscratching to say the least. But hey, at least we added 2 more 7fters to our already existing 2 7fters
I mean Lauri can shoot from range and I'd argue that backup PG & SG were huge needs. They went one for two on that front.

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I mean I'm just coming from the standpoint of the league revolves and is driven around versatile perimeter players and the Cavs decided to build their team around undersized PGs and a slew of 7ft big men.

Just seems like they are operating out of a different 'how to build a good team in 2021' book than 95% of the league
I am worried about us being undersized 1-3 again. We're basically reliant upon one or more of Okoro, Cedi, Windler, and Sexton playing considerably better in order to be competitive this season, and well, I'm not extremely confident in that outcome.

The only thing I'll say in Kobe's defense is that it not easy to acquire good two-way wings. Look at who the first two picks in the draft were. We can't even get the MLE wings to sign here. So it really comes down to reaching for one, which probably needs to happen in the next draft if we still find ourselves in this position next summer, or trading for one, in which case you're better off having talented players to offer in return even if they're somewhat redundant on the current roster.

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