2021-22 regular season thread

[LivingLegend]

I mean Lauri can shoot from range and I'd argue that backup PG & SG were huge needs. They went one for two on that front.

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I mean I'm just coming from the standpoint of the league revolves and is driven around versatile perimeter players and the Cavs decided to build their team around undersized PGs and a slew of 7ft big men.

Just seems like they are operating out of a different 'how to build a good team in 2021' book than 95% of the league

I am worried about us being undersized 1-3 again. We're basically reliant upon one or more of Okoro, Cedi, Windler, and Sexton playing considerably better in order to be competitive this season, and well, I'm not extremely confident in that outcome.

The only thing I'll say in Kobe's defense is that it not easy to acquire good two-way wings. Look at who the first two picks in the draft were. We can't even get the MLE wings to sign here. So it really comes down to reaching for one, which probably needs to happen in the next draft if we still find ourselves in this position next summer, or trading for one, in which case you're better off having talented players to offer in return even if they're somewhat redundant on the current roster.

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That's truez I just can't believe a NBA average SF wouldn't want 10M for 1 season to sign with the Cavs. There wasn't a single one out there that wanted 10M or whatever the MLE is to play basketball for 1 season.

[JonFromVA]

I mean I'm just coming from the standpoint of the league revolves and is driven around versatile perimeter players and the Cavs decided to build their team around undersized PGs and a slew of 7ft big men.

Just seems like they are operating out of a different 'how to build a good team in 2021' book than 95% of the league

I am worried about us being undersized 1-3 again. We're basically reliant upon one or more of Okoro, Cedi, Windler, and Sexton playing considerably better in order to be competitive this season, and well, I'm not extremely confident in that outcome.

The only thing I'll say in Kobe's defense is that it not easy to acquire good two-way wings. Look at who the first two picks in the draft were. We can't even get the MLE wings to sign here. So it really comes down to reaching for one, which probably needs to happen in the next draft if we still find ourselves in this position next summer, or trading for one, in which case you're better off having talented players to offer in return even if they're somewhat redundant on the current roster.

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That's truez I just can't believe a NBA average SF wouldn't want 10M for 1 season to sign with the Cavs. There wasn't a single one out there that wanted 10M or whatever the MLE is to play basketball for 1 season.

Who was an average small forward available in free-agency and what makes our MLE more attractive than a winning teams? And what in the world is going to convince them they will start over a player we've already said is part of our core group?

[LivingLegend]

I am worried about us being undersized 1-3 again. We're basically reliant upon one or more of Okoro, Cedi, Windler, and Sexton playing considerably better in order to be competitive this season, and well, I'm not extremely confident in that outcome.

The only thing I'll say in Kobe's defense is that it not easy to acquire good two-way wings. Look at who the first two picks in the draft were. We can't even get the MLE wings to sign here. So it really comes down to reaching for one, which probably needs to happen in the next draft if we still find ourselves in this position next summer, or trading for one, in which case you're better off having talented players to offer in return even if they're somewhat redundant on the current roster.

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That's truez I just can't believe a NBA average SF wouldn't want 10M for 1 season to sign with the Cavs. There wasn't a single one out there that wanted 10M or whatever the MLE is to play basketball for 1 season.

Who was an average small forward available in free-agency and what makes our MLE more attractive than a winning teams? And what in the world is going to convince them they will start over a player we've already said is part of our core group?

Torrey Craig, Reggie Bullock, Kelly Oubre, Otto Porter, ECT could have been players the Cavs would have gotten if they put in the necessary effort at the beginning of FA.

[jbk1234]

That's truez I just can't believe a NBA average SF wouldn't want 10M for 1 season to sign with the Cavs. There wasn't a single one out there that wanted 10M or whatever the MLE is to play basketball for 1 season.

Who was an average small forward available in free-agency and what makes our MLE more attractive than a winning teams? And what in the world is going to convince them they will start over a player we've already said is part of our core group?

Torrey Craig, Reggie Bullock, Kelly Oubre, Otto Porter, ECT could have been players the Cavs would have gotten if they put in the necessary effort at the beginning of FA.

Bullock is the only one of those guys I could see starting. The rest would be bench/rotation options, which, frankly the Cavs could've used.

Tbc, I don't believe it was a lack of effort on the Cavs part. If you have a choice between going to a playoff team, and a 20-win team, for the same money, then it's a pretty easy choice.
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[LivingLegend]

Who was an average small forward available in free-agency and what makes our MLE more attractive than a winning teams? And what in the world is going to convince them they will start over a player we've already said is part of our core group?

Torrey Craig, Reggie Bullock, Kelly Oubre, Otto Porter, ECT could have been players the Cavs would have gotten if they put in the necessary effort at the beginning of FA.

Bullock is the only one of those guys I could see starting. The rest would be bench/rotation options, which, frankly the Cavs could've used.

Tbc, I don't believe it was a lack of effort on the Cavs part. If you have a choice between going to a playoff team, and a 20-win team, for the same money, then it's a pretty easy choice.
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All we needed was a borderline starter and capable rotation player to actually play the position. I wasn't looking for a 5 year starter just somebody to replace Prince's role/mins. Any one of those guys I mentioned were available and could have done just that.

[JonFromVA]

Who was an average small forward available in free-agency and what makes our MLE more attractive than a winning teams? And what in the world is going to convince them they will start over a player we've already said is part of our core group?

Torrey Craig, Reggie Bullock, Kelly Oubre, Otto Porter, ECT could have been players the Cavs would have gotten if they put in the necessary effort at the beginning of FA.

Bullock is the only one of those guys I could see starting. The rest would be bench/rotation options, which, frankly the Cavs could've used.

Tbc, I don't believe it was a lack of effort on the Cavs part. If you have a choice between going to a playoff team, and a 20-win team, for the same money, then it's a pretty easy choice.
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Dallas got Bullock ... all we could have done is forced them to pay him an extra year. He's also 30, and nobody is going to believe we were going to start him over Okoro.

Oubre got more than the MLE from Charlotte and is young and has put up numbers, but I'm not a fan (no knuckleheads please).

No comment on Torrey Craig (would have to look him up to even begin to form an opinion).

Would have loved OPJ if he slipped through and was willing to take something close to a vet min as a reserve ... how much would we have had to pay to get him to not go to the Warriors?

I'm ok with spreading the extra minutes around ... and getting Lauri some extra minutes.

[jbk1234]

Torrey Craig, Reggie Bullock, Kelly Oubre, Otto Porter, ECT could have been players the Cavs would have gotten if they put in the necessary effort at the beginning of FA.

Bullock is the only one of those guys I could see starting. The rest would be bench/rotation options, which, frankly the Cavs could've used.

Tbc, I don't believe it was a lack of effort on the Cavs part. If you have a choice between going to a playoff team, and a 20-win team, for the same money, then it's a pretty easy choice.
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Dallas got Bullock ... all we could have done is forced them to pay him an extra year. He's also 30, and nobody is going to believe we were going to start him over Okoro.

Oubre got more than the MLE from Charlotte and is young and has put up numbers, but I'm not a fan (no knuckleheads please).

No comment on Torrey Craig (would have to look him up to even begin to form an opinion).

Would have loved OPJ if he slipped through and was willing to take something close to a vet min as a reserve ... how much would we have had to pay to get him to not go to the Warriors?

I'm ok with spreading the extra minutes around ... and getting Lauri some extra minutes.

My concern is that if we decide we have to move Sexton to the bench, or even if he sprains an ankle, I'd like a better option than Cedi or Windler as a starter.

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[JonFromVA]

Bullock is the only one of those guys I could see starting. The rest would be bench/rotation options, which, frankly the Cavs could've used.

Tbc, I don't believe it was a lack of effort on the Cavs part. If you have a choice between going to a playoff team, and a 20-win team, for the same money, then it's a pretty easy choice.
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Dallas got Bullock ... all we could have done is forced them to pay him an extra year. He's also 30, and nobody is going to believe we were going to start him over Okoro.

Oubre got more than the MLE from Charlotte and is young and has put up numbers, but I'm not a fan (no knuckleheads please).

No comment on Torrey Craig (would have to look him up to even begin to form an opinion).

Would have loved OPJ if he slipped through and was willing to take something close to a vet min as a reserve ... how much would we have had to pay to get him to not go to the Warriors?

I'm ok with spreading the extra minutes around ... and getting Lauri some extra minutes.

My concern is that if we decide we have to move Sexton to the bench, or even if he sprains an ankle, I'd like a better option than Cedi or Windler as a starter.

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Right now Okoro is neither a starting quality SF or SG. Hopefully that changes quickly. Fortunately the solution to moving Sexton to the bench is simple ... don't until/unless we have a better option.

We need to reset our expectations with the new season. A whole lot of worst case stuff went on last year. Maybe we'll be screaming at JBB to play Windler or Cedi more ...

[jbk1234]

Trying to talk myself into a realistic Simmons trade, where Simmons ends up in Cleveland, that I like, and I just can't get there.

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[JonFromVA]

Trying to talk myself into a realistic Simmons trade, where Simmons ends up in Cleveland, that I like, and I just can't get there.

If Sexton+Love actually looked like a good deal at some point, I'd think we'd pull the trigger even if it's far from whatever a perfect fit might be for Ben.

Some think he needs to transition to C - which isn't something we'd be able to pull off even if we didn't have 4 x 7footers already.

We'd miss Collin's ability to get buckets, but in turn we'd have ridiculous defensive potential and length and we'd have to try to make up for losing that raw scoring/shooting with unselfish offensive play and a whole lot of improvement from Garland, Okoro, and Mobley.

It just seems like option Q for Philly right now and isn't really worth the breath ... being stuck with Love on the books next year AND having to pay Collin in order to keep him makes this especially clunky even if Morey could convince himself that players with lousy analytics could be a "win now" move.

[jbk1234]

Trying to talk myself into a realistic Simmons trade, where Simmons ends up in Cleveland, that I like, and I just can't get there.

If Sexton+Love actually looked like a good deal at some point, I'd think we'd pull the trigger even if it's far from whatever a perfect fit might be for Ben.

Some think he needs to transition to C - which isn't something we'd be able to pull off even if we didn't have 4 x 7footers already.

We'd miss Collin's ability to get buckets, but in turn we'd have ridiculous defensive potential and length and we'd have to try to make up for losing that raw scoring/shooting with unselfish offensive play and a whole lot of improvement from Garland, Okoro, and Mobley.

It just seems like option Q for Philly right now and isn't really worth the breath ... being stuck with Love on the books next year AND having to pay Collin in order to keep him makes this especially clunky even if Morey could convince himself that players with lousy analytics could be a "win now" move.

I think we'd have to attach a first which would follow Love out to Sacramento with Hield and filler coming back. At that point, it might be worth throwing Okoro and Cedi in so that Hield could end up back here. Then you have Garland, Hield, Simmons, Lauri (for now), and Allen. That's a functional and somewhat balanced starting 5.

Morey ends up with Sexton, Okoro, Cedi, and Bagley? Is that enough? Are we better now? Are we better than we'd be in the future if we passed? Do the Kings play ball or try to cut us out?

The December 15th deal I like is DeRozan and P. Will for Simmons with the Cavs substituting Sexton for P. Will. But I don't think that the Sixers have that long. Even if they could coerce or coax Simmons into it, the Philly fans are gonna be just brutal.

[LivingLegend]

Torrey Craig, Reggie Bullock, Kelly Oubre, Otto Porter, ECT could have been players the Cavs would have gotten if they put in the necessary effort at the beginning of FA.

Bullock is the only one of those guys I could see starting. The rest would be bench/rotation options, which, frankly the Cavs could've used.

Tbc, I don't believe it was a lack of effort on the Cavs part. If you have a choice between going to a playoff team, and a 20-win team, for the same money, then it's a pretty easy choice.
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Dallas got Bullock ... all we could have done is forced them to pay him an extra year. He's also 30, and nobody is going to believe we were going to start him over Okoro.

Oubre got more than the MLE from Charlotte and is young and has put up numbers, but I'm not a fan (no knuckleheads please).

No comment on Torrey Craig (would have to look him up to even begin to form an opinion).

Would have loved OPJ if he slipped through and was willing to take something close to a vet min as a reserve ... how much would we have had to pay to get him to not go to the Warriors?

I'm ok with spreading the extra minutes around ... and getting Lauri some extra minutes.

Point is the Cavs at the beginning of FA could have got any of those guys, instead they traded away Prince for Rubio and paid 16M to Lauri Markenen.

If they had 16M to pay Lauri, they had the money to sign any one of those guys if they went after them hard enough.

Their "prized possession" Doug McDermott got paid less by the Mavericks or whoever than the Cavs gave Lauri. So Doug McDermott was out of their ballpark but adding another stretch PF wasn't? Cmon It just seems like they underestimated some things this off-season so they had to scramble at the end to add somebody before the fans riot.

[jbk1234]

Bullock is the only one of those guys I could see starting. The rest would be bench/rotation options, which, frankly the Cavs could've used.

Tbc, I don't believe it was a lack of effort on the Cavs part. If you have a choice between going to a playoff team, and a 20-win team, for the same money, then it's a pretty easy choice.
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Dallas got Bullock ... all we could have done is forced them to pay him an extra year. He's also 30, and nobody is going to believe we were going to start him over Okoro.

Oubre got more than the MLE from Charlotte and is young and has put up numbers, but I'm not a fan (no knuckleheads please).

No comment on Torrey Craig (would have to look him up to even begin to form an opinion).

Would have loved OPJ if he slipped through and was willing to take something close to a vet min as a reserve ... how much would we have had to pay to get him to not go to the Warriors?

I'm ok with spreading the extra minutes around ... and getting Lauri some extra minutes.

Point is the Cavs at the beginning of FA could have got any of those guys, instead they traded away Prince for Rubio and paid 16M to Lauri Markenen.

If they had 16M to pay Lauri, they had the money to sign any one of those guys if they went after them hard enough.

Their "prized possession" Doug McDermott got paid less by the Mavericks or whoever than the Cavs gave Lauri. So Doug McDermott was out of their ballpark but adding another stretch PF wasn't? Cmon It just seems like they underestimated some things this off-season so they had to scramble at the end to add somebody before the fans riot.

Tbc, Lauri was a S&T, the Cavs didn't have the money to sign him to that deal outright if Nance wasn't on his way out for matching purposes. Trading for Rubio didn't impact the money the Cavs had available. They had the MLE before that trade and they had the MLE after that trade. Honestly, if you have to spend a lot more than the MLE on a MLE player, then you're not necessarily doing yourself any favors signing that player. A 20% tax, okay, fine, whatever. A 50-100% tax? That's a bad contract.

[KuruptedCav]

Trying to talk myself into a realistic Simmons trade, where Simmons ends up in Cleveland, that I like, and I just can't get there.

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Don’t do it. Simmons is not worth the level of effort or assets that would need to be attached to acquire him.

The guy is all flash, gets the steals we ignore the high foul rate. Amazing passes, we ignore the turnover rate.

Consider he plays with Embiid, Harris, Seth Curry, etc. and somehow his assist rate has dropped every year.

His best role is as a Draymond Green player, but he won’t accept that he’s a third or fourth option and is paid like an Alpha.

I hear this crap about moving him into the post where his height and lane disruptiveness is negated, and the size he gives up isn’t made up for by ability to stretch.

Until he learns to shoot, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. If I had any confidence in the Cavs developing any shooter, maybe I’d be diff. But, I don’t.


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[jbk1234]

Trying to talk myself into a realistic Simmons trade, where Simmons ends up in Cleveland, that I like, and I just can't get there.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Don’t do it. Simmons is not worth the level of effort or assets that would need to be attached to acquire him.

The guy is all flash, gets the steals we ignore the high foul rate. Amazing passes, we ignore the turnover rate.

Consider he plays with Embiid, Harris, Seth Curry, etc. and somehow his assist rate has dropped every year.

His best role is as a Draymond Green player, but he won’t accept that he’s a third or fourth option and is paid like an Alpha.

I hear this crap about moving him into the post where his height and lane disruptiveness is negated, and the size he gives up isn’t made up for by ability to stretch.

Until he learns to shoot, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. If I had any confidence in the Cavs developing any shooter, maybe I’d be diff. But, I don’t.


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I think the idea that teams *develop* shooters is a bit silly tbh. It's a skill that can be developed some, but most of it's innate. No one works harder than Jimmy Butler, and while he's improved some since his rookie season, he's still a meh shooter who you'll live with shooting in the postseason as the opponent.

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[lilfishi22]

G'day fellas, Suns fan here. I come in peace

I was wondering what the consensus on the Love situation is here. Seems like the Cavs have been trying to trade him since he signed that extension a few years back. Love is still on the Cavs roster and books and it seemed like the situation was going to reach a buyout sooner rather than later but reports a week or so back seems to indicate there haven't been talks.

Do you guys see a buyout realistically happening before the playoffs this year? Or will you likely keep holding on for a trade?

[jbk1234]

G'day fellas, Suns fan here. I come in peace

I was wondering what the consensus on the Love situation is here. Seems like the Cavs have been trying to trade him since he signed that extension a few years back. Love is still on the Cavs roster and books and it seemed like the situation was going to reach a buyout sooner rather than later but reports a week or so back seems to indicate there haven't been talks.

Do you guys see a buyout realistically happening before the playoffs this year? Or will you likely keep holding on for a trade?

I don't see him getting bought out before the deadline. He'll have made most of his money for this season already. He'll realize at that point a trade isn't in the cards. He can play in two postseasons for another team at that point. That's when the incentives start to lineup. But the Cavs are going to want real money back, and at least right now, he doesn't want to give it.

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[lilfishi22]

G'day fellas, Suns fan here. I come in peace

I was wondering what the consensus on the Love situation is here. Seems like the Cavs have been trying to trade him since he signed that extension a few years back. Love is still on the Cavs roster and books and it seemed like the situation was going to reach a buyout sooner rather than later but reports a week or so back seems to indicate there haven't been talks.

Do you guys see a buyout realistically happening before the playoffs this year? Or will you likely keep holding on for a trade?

I don't see him getting bought out before the deadline. He'll have made most of his money for this season already. He'll realize at that point a trade isn't in the cards. He can realize two postseasons out of it. That's when the incentives start to lineup. But the Cavs are going to want real money back, and at least right now, he doesn't want to give it.

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Feels like he's basically packed it in for one reason or another since he signed his extension. Seems like year after year he's on the block but no takers. Really liked what you guys have done with your front court but it also feels like it's going to limit Love's opportunities so it just made me wonder what the plan is with him. I don't think there's much argument that you guys haven't gotten fair value from the guy and given the roster right now, it's probably unlikely to change.

I honestly haven't followed the Love situation super closely but every time there's a headline or he goes viral, it's usually related to his poor play, unhappiness or just showing frustrating in game. Does he just not want to play basketball anymore or is he just unhappy with his situation and need a chance in scenery?

[jbk1234]

G'day fellas, Suns fan here. I come in peace

I was wondering what the consensus on the Love situation is here. Seems like the Cavs have been trying to trade him since he signed that extension a few years back. Love is still on the Cavs roster and books and it seemed like the situation was going to reach a buyout sooner rather than later but reports a week or so back seems to indicate there haven't been talks.

Do you guys see a buyout realistically happening before the playoffs this year? Or will you likely keep holding on for a trade?

I don't see him getting bought out before the deadline. He'll have made most of his money for this season already. He'll realize at that point a trade isn't in the cards. He can realize two postseasons out of it. That's when the incentives start to lineup. But the Cavs are going to want real money back, and at least right now, he doesn't want to give it.

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Feels like he's basically packed it in for one reason or another since he signed his extension. Seems like year after year he's on the block but no takers. Really liked what you guys have done with your front court but it also feels like it's going to limit Love's opportunities so it just made me wonder what the plan is with him. I don't think there's much argument that you guys haven't gotten fair value from the guy and given the roster right now, it's probably unlikely to change.

I honestly haven't followed the Love situation super closely but every time there's a headline or he goes viral, it's usually related to his poor play, unhappiness or just showing frustrating in game. Does he just not want to play basketball anymore or is he just unhappy with his situation and need a chance in scenery?

He's been injured a lot. Maybe coming off the bench will help on that front. We traded for Rubio who will also be coming off the bench. There's some old synergy there.

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[LivingLegend]

G'day fellas, Suns fan here. I come in peace

I was wondering what the consensus on the Love situation is here. Seems like the Cavs have been trying to trade him since he signed that extension a few years back. Love is still on the Cavs roster and books and it seemed like the situation was going to reach a buyout sooner rather than later but reports a week or so back seems to indicate there haven't been talks.

Do you guys see a buyout realistically happening before the playoffs this year? Or will you likely keep holding on for a trade?

My opinion is that he nurses injuries longer than anybody in NBA history and has zero desire to hold up his end of the bargain with his contract while being a leech on the Cavs salary cap.

Realistically, he is going to play this entire season as a Cav- he likes it or not. Nobody wants him and he doesnt want a buyout at this number because as a Athletic reporter said 'Kevin loves his money'. So we are stuck with him and he is stuck with us for 1 more season before a realistic buyout happens next offseason.