2021-22 regular season thread

[toooskies]

Ultimately if we're going to start Okoro/Mobley/Allen, our spacing is going to be terrible with the starting unit. If we need to play the rookie in the starting lineup, we need Allen or Okoro to come off the bench and start Markkanen or Cedi. Mobley/Okoro are 1 for 10 from behind the arc.

Also interesting that Lamar Stevens seemed to get the 10th man minutes against Atlanta, but that doesn't help our spacing at all.

But this is the same problem we have in terms of depth with sending Sexton to the bench. Who are we starting in place of Okoro and Allen?

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Thought I made that clear. If we're playing bad/non-shooters at SF and C then we need a shooter (either Markkanen or Love) at PF for a somewhat spaced offense. If Mobley is getting starter's minutes, he's getting them at C whenever Okoro is out there with him. That's not precluding Okoro or Mobley from working on their outside shots in-game, it's just accepting the reality that a good defense isn't going to guard them out there until they show they need to be guarded.

[JonFromVA]

Ultimately if we're going to start Okoro/Mobley/Allen, our spacing is going to be terrible with the starting unit. If we need to play the rookie in the starting lineup, we need Allen or Okoro to come off the bench and start Markkanen or Cedi. Mobley/Okoro are 1 for 10 from behind the arc.

Also interesting that Lamar Stevens seemed to get the 10th man minutes against Atlanta, but that doesn't help our spacing at all.

But this is the same problem we have in terms of depth with sending Sexton to the bench. Who are we starting in place of Okoro and Allen?

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Thought I made that clear. If we're playing bad/non-shooters at SF and C then we need a shooter (either Markkanen or Love) at PF for a somewhat spaced offense. If Mobley is getting starter's minutes, he's getting them at C whenever Okoro is out there with him. That's not precluding Okoro or Mobley from working on their outside shots in-game, it's just accepting the reality that a good defense isn't going to guard them out there until they show they need to be guarded.

Things are going to be clunky while Mobley grows in to his body and a lot of guys who can't shoot or even stay on the floor try to do so, but starting out with a defensive focus and then rotating in shooting lineups (that can't defend very well) is at least a strategy.

We have options, but they all have some huge warts ... Cedi was awful last year, Windler can't stay on the floor long enough to show what he can do, Love is miserable on defense and can't stay on the floor, Valentine was once considered a shooter but has struggled in the NBA, Rubio's shooting comes and goes, Lauri has been bad on D.

So basically someone has to improve.

But what hasn't changed is our investment in Mobley, Allen, Okoro, Sexton, and Allen so I understand why they're starting. As long as Mobley is viewed as a future franchise player, I expect the Cavs will do what they have to in order to start him and keep him healthy.

So, unless there's a big trade, that leaves Okoro as the most fungible non-shooter in the starting lineup, and for now I'd have to put the odds of him improving his 3pt shot immediately at least on the same plane as the odds of Dylan WIndler or Cedi Osman being a better option.

One of the reasons I don't like trading for Simmons is it leaves us clunky with fewer ways to fix it. As things are now, if we can't clean things up, at least we have another lottery pick in our near future.

[toooskies]

But this is the same problem we have in terms of depth with sending Sexton to the bench. Who are we starting in place of Okoro and Allen?

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Thought I made that clear. If we're playing bad/non-shooters at SF and C then we need a shooter (either Markkanen or Love) at PF for a somewhat spaced offense. If Mobley is getting starter's minutes, he's getting them at C whenever Okoro is out there with him. That's not precluding Okoro or Mobley from working on their outside shots in-game, it's just accepting the reality that a good defense isn't going to guard them out there until they show they need to be guarded.

Things are going to be clunky while Mobley grows in to his body and a lot of guys who can't shoot or even stay on the floor try to do so, but starting out with a defensive focus and then rotating in shooting lineups (that can't defend very well) is at least a strategy.

We have options, but they all have some huge warts ... Cedi was awful last year, Windler can't stay on the floor long enough to show what he can do, Love is miserable on defense and can't stay on the floor, Valentine was once considered a shooter but has struggled in the NBA, Rubio's shooting comes and goes, Lauri has been bad on D.

So basically someone has to improve.

But what hasn't changed is our investment in Mobley, Allen, Okoro, Sexton, and Allen so I understand why they're starting. As long as Mobley is viewed as a future franchise player, I expect the Cavs will do what they have to in order to start him and keep him healthy.

So, unless there's a big trade, that leaves Okoro as the most fungible non-shooter in the starting lineup, and for now I'd have to put the odds of him improving his 3pt shot immediately at least on the same plane as the odds of Dylan WIndler or Cedi Osman being a better option.

One of the reasons I don't like trading for Simmons is it leaves us clunky with fewer ways to fix it. As things are now, if we can't clean things up, at least we have another lottery pick in our near future.

I have Cedi bouncing back to a league average shooter like he's been in the past to be much more likely than Okoro developing an outside shot he's never had.

But it does look like we're going to put player development ahead of winning. Makes me wonder why we bothered getting Markkanen when we could've had the 1st from Portland and just used Wade in that role.

[JonFromVA]

Thought I made that clear. If we're playing bad/non-shooters at SF and C then we need a shooter (either Markkanen or Love) at PF for a somewhat spaced offense. If Mobley is getting starter's minutes, he's getting them at C whenever Okoro is out there with him. That's not precluding Okoro or Mobley from working on their outside shots in-game, it's just accepting the reality that a good defense isn't going to guard them out there until they show they need to be guarded.

Things are going to be clunky while Mobley grows in to his body and a lot of guys who can't shoot or even stay on the floor try to do so, but starting out with a defensive focus and then rotating in shooting lineups (that can't defend very well) is at least a strategy.

We have options, but they all have some huge warts ... Cedi was awful last year, Windler can't stay on the floor long enough to show what he can do, Love is miserable on defense and can't stay on the floor, Valentine was once considered a shooter but has struggled in the NBA, Rubio's shooting comes and goes, Lauri has been bad on D.

So basically someone has to improve.

But what hasn't changed is our investment in Mobley, Allen, Okoro, Sexton, and Allen so I understand why they're starting. As long as Mobley is viewed as a future franchise player, I expect the Cavs will do what they have to in order to start him and keep him healthy.

So, unless there's a big trade, that leaves Okoro as the most fungible non-shooter in the starting lineup, and for now I'd have to put the odds of him improving his 3pt shot immediately at least on the same plane as the odds of Dylan WIndler or Cedi Osman being a better option.

One of the reasons I don't like trading for Simmons is it leaves us clunky with fewer ways to fix it. As things are now, if we can't clean things up, at least we have another lottery pick in our near future.

I have Cedi bouncing back to a league average shooter like he's been in the past to be much more likely than Okoro developing an outside shot he's never had.

But it does look like we're going to put player development ahead of winning. Makes me wonder why we bothered getting Markkanen when we could've had the 1st from Portland and just used Wade in that role.

Okoro shot 35% on his 3pters at home (it was around 40% before tailing off at the end of the season). So, I'm equating the odds of him getting used to playing on the road with the odds of Cedi not trying to do too much and settling back in to a useful role. I'm also expecting growth in other areas from Isaac.

I like Wade, but he's older than Markkenan and has a fraction of Lauri's resume and accomplishments. So grabbing some players with an actual NBA resume like Lauri and Ricky gives us more certainty that we will get consistent production. And if Altman is thinking sometime down the line when Mobley is physically ready to start at C, Love is gone, and we can slide Lauri in at PF? Cool.

Really, the only here and now move Altman has made was swapping Prince for Rubio, and that may very well just be a case of asset transformation (aka Ricky is gone by the trade deadline) combined with the benefit of having an experienced PG on the team.

We desperately need players to show improvement and the team as whole to build some sort of a synergy/chemistry even if it's a "grit & grind" style or we will struggle to win 30 games as most seem to expect.

[jbk1234]

I think we should adopt John's *someone has to improve* as our official motto this season.

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[toooskies]

Things are going to be clunky while Mobley grows in to his body and a lot of guys who can't shoot or even stay on the floor try to do so, but starting out with a defensive focus and then rotating in shooting lineups (that can't defend very well) is at least a strategy.

We have options, but they all have some huge warts ... Cedi was awful last year, Windler can't stay on the floor long enough to show what he can do, Love is miserable on defense and can't stay on the floor, Valentine was once considered a shooter but has struggled in the NBA, Rubio's shooting comes and goes, Lauri has been bad on D.

So basically someone has to improve.

But what hasn't changed is our investment in Mobley, Allen, Okoro, Sexton, and Allen so I understand why they're starting. As long as Mobley is viewed as a future franchise player, I expect the Cavs will do what they have to in order to start him and keep him healthy.

So, unless there's a big trade, that leaves Okoro as the most fungible non-shooter in the starting lineup, and for now I'd have to put the odds of him improving his 3pt shot immediately at least on the same plane as the odds of Dylan WIndler or Cedi Osman being a better option.

One of the reasons I don't like trading for Simmons is it leaves us clunky with fewer ways to fix it. As things are now, if we can't clean things up, at least we have another lottery pick in our near future.

I have Cedi bouncing back to a league average shooter like he's been in the past to be much more likely than Okoro developing an outside shot he's never had.

But it does look like we're going to put player development ahead of winning. Makes me wonder why we bothered getting Markkanen when we could've had the 1st from Portland and just used Wade in that role.

Okoro shot 35% on his 3pters at home (it was around 40% before tailing off at the end of the season). So, I'm equating the odds of him getting used to playing on the road with the odds of Cedi not trying to do too much and settling back in to a useful role. I'm also expecting growth in other areas from Isaac.

I like Wade, but he's older than Markkenan and has a fraction of Lauri's resume and accomplishments. So grabbing some players with an actual NBA resume like Lauri and Ricky gives us more certainty that we will get consistent production. And if Altman is thinking sometime down the line when Mobley is physically ready to start at C, Love is gone, and we can slide Lauri in at PF? Cool.

Really, the only here and now move Altman has made was swapping Prince for Rubio, and that may very well just be a case of asset transformation (aka Ricky is gone by the trade deadline) combined with the benefit of having an experienced PG on the team.

We desperately need players to show improvement and the team as whole to build some sort of a synergy/chemistry even if it's a "grit & grind" style or we will struggle to win 30 games as most seem to expect.

Was Okoro less comfortable shooting on the road, or did he just have a hot streak for a week in late February that happened to be mostly home games?

He shot 29% in college and 29% last year, I think he's just a bad shooter.

[jbk1234]

I have Cedi bouncing back to a league average shooter like he's been in the past to be much more likely than Okoro developing an outside shot he's never had.

But it does look like we're going to put player development ahead of winning. Makes me wonder why we bothered getting Markkanen when we could've had the 1st from Portland and just used Wade in that role.

Okoro shot 35% on his 3pters at home (it was around 40% before tailing off at the end of the season). So, I'm equating the odds of him getting used to playing on the road with the odds of Cedi not trying to do too much and settling back in to a useful role. I'm also expecting growth in other areas from Isaac.

I like Wade, but he's older than Markkenan and has a fraction of Lauri's resume and accomplishments. So grabbing some players with an actual NBA resume like Lauri and Ricky gives us more certainty that we will get consistent production. And if Altman is thinking sometime down the line when Mobley is physically ready to start at C, Love is gone, and we can slide Lauri in at PF? Cool.

Really, the only here and now move Altman has made was swapping Prince for Rubio, and that may very well just be a case of asset transformation (aka Ricky is gone by the trade deadline) combined with the benefit of having an experienced PG on the team.

We desperately need players to show improvement and the team as whole to build some sort of a synergy/chemistry even if it's a "grit & grind" style or we will struggle to win 30 games as most seem to expect.

Was Okoro less comfortable shooting on the road, or did he just have a hot streak for a week in late February that happened to be mostly home games?

He shot 29% in college and 29% last year, I think he's just a bad shooter.

Okoro might just be a bad shooter, but I'm not willing to make that call after a single season. There are enough examples of guys shooting poorly their rookie year who put it together by their third season that I'm willing to give him at least three years. At least he's still firing away and hasn't started attempting to protect his percentages by passing up 3 point attempts.

The bigger problem the Cavs have is that there is no one currently behind Sexton or Okoro who can make even a decent case for taking their starting spots. We're basically banking on or more of Wade, Windler, or Cedi shooting much better from 3 this season just to have the option of playing with the starting lineup.

I'm hopeful, but not certain, that Bickerstaff will have the green light to start Lauri instead of Mobley, at least early in the season. Force feeding Mobley starting minutes would not only negatively impact the entire unit, it could really damage Allen's trade value. If Mobley is developing at a faster pace than they hoped, it could become necessary to move Allen sooner than expected. I prefer not to torpedo his trade value like we did with Love's under Beilein.

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[DroseReturnChi]

I'm hopeful, but not certain, that Bickerstaff will have the green light to start Lauri instead of Mobley, at least early in the season. Force feeding Mobley starting minutes would not only negatively impact the entire unit, it could really damage Allen's trade value. If Mobley is developing at a faster pace than they hoped, it could become necessary to move Allen sooner than expected. I prefer not to torpedo his trade value like we did with Love's under Beilein.

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im a lauri follower but wow cavs is managing him horribly. pretty sure lauri signed cavs over other teams under the condition hes starting 82 games and hes losing his spot to rookies? this has to be a sick joke i cant take it anymore lauri must be depressed. wheres the pregame interview mgt needs to at least offer me a valid excuse to justify the benching.
i dont blame mobley emerging as the best clear talent, but you dont have to be lauri stan to figure out allen needs to be traded.
hes already playing poorly in preseason and the odd man out with grossly overpaid. was high on him but at end of day hes a traditional center.

my thoughts of watching few games here and there. garland, lauri, mobley are keepers rest can go for upgrades preferrably simmons.

[jbk1234]

I'm hopeful, but not certain, that Bickerstaff will have the green light to start Lauri instead of Mobley, at least early in the season. Force feeding Mobley starting minutes would not only negatively impact the entire unit, it could really damage Allen's trade value. If Mobley is developing at a faster pace than they hoped, it could become necessary to move Allen sooner than expected. I prefer not to torpedo his trade value like we did with Love's under Beilein.

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im a lauri follower but wow cavs is managing him horribly. pretty sure lauri signed cavs over other teams under the condition hes starting 82 games and hes losing his spot to rookies? this has to be a sick joke i cant take it anymore lauri must be depressed. wheres the pregame interview mgt needs to at least offer me a valid excuse to justify the benching.
i dont blame mobley emerging as the best clear talent, but you dont have to be lauri stan to figure out allen needs to be traded.
hes already playing poorly in preseason and the odd man out with grossly overpaid. was high on him but at end of day hes a traditional center.

my thoughts of watching few games here and there. garland, lauri, mobley are keepers rest can go for upgrades preferrably simmons.

He didn't sign with us on that condition. He signed with us on the condition that we offered him more money than anyone else and got him out of Chicago. He's publicly said he's fine coming off the bench. We drafted Mobley before signing Lauri and Lauri knew that.

I just think that given our spacing issues, the fact that Mobley is a 19-year old big man, and that Mobley can be more easily paired with Love off the bench, the Cavs are better off with Lauri starting. The real question is whether Bickerstaff makes the call or whether the front office insists on Mobley starting based on where he was selected.

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[JonFromVA]

I'm hopeful, but not certain, that Bickerstaff will have the green light to start Lauri instead of Mobley, at least early in the season. Force feeding Mobley starting minutes would not only negatively impact the entire unit, it could really damage Allen's trade value. If Mobley is developing at a faster pace than they hoped, it could become necessary to move Allen sooner than expected. I prefer not to torpedo his trade value like we did with Love's under Beilein.

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im a lauri follower but wow cavs is managing him horribly. pretty sure lauri signed cavs over other teams under the condition hes starting 82 games and hes losing his spot to rookies? this has to be a sick joke i cant take it anymore lauri must be depressed. wheres the pregame interview mgt needs to at least offer me a valid excuse to justify the benching.
i dont blame mobley emerging as the best clear talent, but you dont have to be lauri stan to figure out allen needs to be traded.
hes already playing poorly in preseason and the odd man out with grossly overpaid. was high on him but at end of day hes a traditional center.

my thoughts of watching few games here and there. garland, lauri, mobley are keepers rest can go for upgrades preferrably simmons.

He didn't sign with us on that condition. He signed with us on the condition that we offered him more money than anyone else and got him out of Chicago. He's publicly said he's fine coming off the bench. We drafted Mobley before signing Lauri and Lauri knew that.

I just think that given our spacing issues, the fact that Mobley is a 19-year old big man, and that Mobley can be more easily paired with Love off the bench, the Cavs are better off with Lauri starting. The real question is whether Bickerstaff makes the call or whether the front office insists on Mobley starting based on where he was selected.

Yep, Lauri got what he wanted ... that contract along with perhaps some expectations that he would be used as more than a sit in the corner player.

We'll see how things play out, but for now ... at least Allen+Mobley gives us a defensive presence. IMO, Evan has been our best defender in pre-season and that always counts for something in a coach like JBB's mind.

[Jorgeglez7]

Hey Dudes,

I'm a Rubio fan coming around for this year. Based on what I saw last season (as I usually watch lots of NBA games besides of the teams involved) and what I'm seeing this preseason, Darius Garland is THE REAL DEAL, but Collin Sexton is exactly like a bull, some skills but lacks any kind of IQ. I really think that the starting five would be way better with Rubio + Garland than Sexton.

What do you think about it?

Thank you for welcoming me and I'll try to collaborate with more than Rubio stuff!!

[JonFromVA]

Hey Dudes,

I'm a Rubio fan coming around for this year. Based on what I saw last season (as I usually watch lots of NBA games besides of the teams involved) and what I'm seeing this preseason, Darius Garland is THE REAL DEAL, but Collin Sexton is exactly like a bull, some skills but lacks any kind of IQ. I really think that the starting five would be way better with Rubio + Garland than Sexton.

What do you think about it?

Thank you for welcoming me and I'll try to collaborate with more than Rubio stuff!!

Rubio is looking good, but as a scorer and shooter? He's never come close to what Collin put up last season as a 21/22 year old.

It's pre-season ...

[Jorgeglez7]

Hey Dudes,

I'm a Rubio fan coming around for this year. Based on what I saw last season (as I usually watch lots of NBA games besides of the teams involved) and what I'm seeing this preseason, Darius Garland is THE REAL DEAL, but Collin Sexton is exactly like a bull, some skills but lacks any kind of IQ. I really think that the starting five would be way better with Rubio + Garland than Sexton.

What do you think about it?

Thank you for welcoming me and I'll try to collaborate with more than Rubio stuff!!

Rubio is looking good, but as a scorer and shooter? He's never come close to what Collin put up last season as a 21/22 year old.

It's pre-season ...

Exactly because of that. I'm feeling like every time he gets the ball the offense stops and lacks flow. Moreover, he always looks more for scoring than being a team player. Rubio in the starting five would give more to the team, meanwhile, Sexton can just score as much as he wants playing as a 6th man and not worry so much about the team engineering.

[jbk1234]

Hey Dudes,

I'm a Rubio fan coming around for this year. Based on what I saw last season (as I usually watch lots of NBA games besides of the teams involved) and what I'm seeing this preseason, Darius Garland is THE REAL DEAL, but Collin Sexton is exactly like a bull, some skills but lacks any kind of IQ. I really think that the starting five would be way better with Rubio + Garland than Sexton.

What do you think about it?

Thank you for welcoming me and I'll try to collaborate with more than Rubio stuff!!

It would help with defense and ball movement, but it would likely make our otherwise awful spacing even worse. Also, if it's true that both Mobley and Love are coming off the bench, then the Cavs probably want Rubio playing with both of them. He's amazing with big men.

You'd have to send Sexton and Okoro to the bench and one of Wade, Windler, or Osman would have to shoot well enough to be your starting SF.

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[Jorgeglez7]

Hey Dudes,

I'm a Rubio fan coming around for this year. Based on what I saw last season (as I usually watch lots of NBA games besides of the teams involved) and what I'm seeing this preseason, Darius Garland is THE REAL DEAL, but Collin Sexton is exactly like a bull, some skills but lacks any kind of IQ. I really think that the starting five would be way better with Rubio + Garland than Sexton.

What do you think about it?

Thank you for welcoming me and I'll try to collaborate with more than Rubio stuff!!

It would help with defense and ball movement, but it would likely make our otherwise awful spacing even worse. Also, if it's true that both Mobley and Love are coming off the bench, then the Cavs probably want Rubio playing with both of them. He's amazing with big men.

You'd have to send Sexton and Okoro to the bench and one of Wade, Windler, or Osman would have to shoot well enough to be your starting SF.

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What you're saying makes sense to me, but seeing what Okoro is doing, I would not hesitate to send him to the bench.

[JonFromVA]

Hey Dudes,

I'm a Rubio fan coming around for this year. Based on what I saw last season (as I usually watch lots of NBA games besides of the teams involved) and what I'm seeing this preseason, Darius Garland is THE REAL DEAL, but Collin Sexton is exactly like a bull, some skills but lacks any kind of IQ. I really think that the starting five would be way better with Rubio + Garland than Sexton.

What do you think about it?

Thank you for welcoming me and I'll try to collaborate with more than Rubio stuff!!

Rubio is looking good, but as a scorer and shooter? He's never come close to what Collin put up last season as a 21/22 year old.

It's pre-season ...

Exactly because of that. I'm feeling like every time he gets the ball the offense stops and lacks flow. Moreover, he always looks more for scoring than being a team player. Rubio in the starting five would give more to the team, meanwhile, Sexton can just score as much as he wants playing as a 6th man and not worry so much about the team engineering.

The time will come to look at our other options, but let's revisit when Collin is playing like himself not this confused turnover machine

[jbk1234]

Hey Dudes,

I'm a Rubio fan coming around for this year. Based on what I saw last season (as I usually watch lots of NBA games besides of the teams involved) and what I'm seeing this preseason, Darius Garland is THE REAL DEAL, but Collin Sexton is exactly like a bull, some skills but lacks any kind of IQ. I really think that the starting five would be way better with Rubio + Garland than Sexton.

What do you think about it?

Thank you for welcoming me and I'll try to collaborate with more than Rubio stuff!!

It would help with defense and ball movement, but it would likely make our otherwise awful spacing even worse. Also, if it's true that both Mobley and Love are coming off the bench, then the Cavs probably want Rubio playing with both of them. He's amazing with big men.

You'd have to send Sexton and Okoro to the bench and one of Wade, Windler, or Osman would have to shoot well enough to be your starting SF.

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What you're saying makes sense to me, but seeing what Okoro is doing, I would not hesitate to send him to the bench.

The Cavs really needed to upgrade their backup SG and SF options this summer and failed to do so. That's why Sexton and Okoro are still starting.

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[jbk1234]

Warriors waived Langston Galloway. If we don't put in a claim, we definitely need to offer him a roster spot and non-guaranteed deal. He's better than Valentine. Heck, he's a better pure shooter than any of bench wings.

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[toooskies]

Looks like Lauri might be our off-season starting SF acquisition.

[DroseReturnChi]

Looks like Lauri might be our off-season starting SF acquisition.

hes a 3 imo. cant defend 5 and no rim protector. 7ft klay is what i call him but chi never developed him made him a spot up shooter. he needs to start for spacing sake. very good perimeter defender for his size.
mobley is clearly the best player from what i have seen so if he wants to play the 3, so be it. but his natural is 4-5.