2021-22 regular season thread

[Stillwater]

Scottie Barnes measured 6'7" in socks at the Combine. That is small forward size at the 3 position. Not NBA power forward size for a player that is still developing the outside shot. I am so tired of the Cavaliers being undersized and overall not as athletic as other teams. But all seem to peg him as a PF. Like last year, Okoro was pegged by all at SF but afterward we all saw he has 2-Guard size at 6-4 1/2. Okoro will have to make the transition to the 2-Guard. I believe he can because he has the work ethic to make the perimeter shot consistently.

lol there were 5 prospects in the draft with a longer standing reach than Barnes and all were centers except Thor and Barnes had a better standing reach than 17 players listed as PF or C ...Barnes had a very dominant anthro at the combine and his length is pf/c length. his athletic explosiveness and motor is better than average posting a ridiculous shuttle time 2nd overall behind Greg Brown and ahead of all other high twitch guards... with his length and 12' reach when he jumps he is able to defend the paint easily.
Then you add the playmaking IQ is impressive and he is a point forward by trade at the 3/4 or can just run the point period with his obvious ball handling and Greek freak like mobility.
I am pretty high on Barnes I dont care if he ever shoots
Cavs can buy a late first for a shooter if Windler is never going to play

lol....you are describing a poor mans Ben Simmons, who has been an incredible disappointment in Philly as the overall no. 1 pick that they are entertaining trading him. Your team of non-scorers wouldn't win anything because they wouldn't be able to score 50 points a game. Don't need another Okoro at another position.

Thats fair if you think Barnes is afraid of shooting like Simmons and lets be real Simmons has been wildly regarded as untouchable until this recent exposure of being afraid to shoot.
I dont know what you think they are going to get out of Green at 6'4 barefoot for example being the only gifted shooter outside Cade in the Cavs draft range.
I expect Kuminga and Banres to be the pick at 3 if Mobley is gone...I bet Barnes is more like Giannis than SImmons as far as impact on ball

[Wisedude]

I agree that Mobley is the pick at 3 if he is available and it will be either Kuminga or Barnes at 3 if Mobley is gone.
Would Altman take from OKC, picks 6 & 16 plus a future 1st round pick to give OKC pick 3 if Mobley is picked at 2.
Might still get Kuminga or Barnes at 6. Cavs also looking at Jalen Johnson of Duke also.

[jbk1234]

I agree that Mobley is the pick at 3 if he is available and it will be either Kuminga or Barnes at 3 if Mobley is gone.
Would Altman take from OKC, picks 6 & 16 plus a future 1st round pick to give OKC pick 3 if Mobley is picked at 2.
Might still get Kuminga or Barnes at 6. Cavs also looking at Jalen Johnson of Duke also.

I don't understand people who think that the Cavs can continue to start Garland and Sexton, AND who think we should draft non-shooters. The possibility that Kuminga or Barnes turns into a good shooter his rookie year is beyond remote. The only time the Cavs spacing wasn't completely jacked last year was when Love, Nance, or Wade was shooting well enough to drag their defender, or even a defender, out of the paint. Will either Barnes or Kuminga be a better defender than his rookie year? I mean we were a 20 win team that habitually traded two points for three.

[Wisedude]

I watched Kuminga's recent workout. His shot the ball very well with very good shooting mechanics. I'm sure Altman & Gansey saw the same which is why they have him coming to CL this month for a workout. Kuminga demonstrates alot of scoring ability imo as opposed to Barnes. But Barnes is the better defender. I believe the Cavs desperately want a scorer. Will Barnes come to CL for a workout? We will only know what they do on draft night.

[JonFromVA]

Scottie Barnes measured 6'7" in socks at the Combine. That is small forward size at the 3 position. Not NBA power forward size for a player that is still developing the outside shot. I am so tired of the Cavaliers being undersized and overall not as athletic as other teams. But all seem to peg him as a PF. Like last year, Okoro was pegged by all at SF but afterward we all saw he has 2-Guard size at 6-4 1/2. Okoro will have to make the transition to the 2-Guard. I believe he can because he has the work ethic to make the perimeter shot consistently.

If Okoro starts knocking down open 3's consistently he could be a viable 3&D at either the 2 or the 3, but it's still not optimal. Ideally we want more on the ball ability from a 2, and more height from a 3.

But talent is still king so we need to chase talent before height, and IMO the most likely outcome of all is that even lacking a couple of inches, Isaac will become a very good to excellent defender of 3's and 4's, and even 5's from time to time.

[Wisedude]

Okoro had alot of problems guarding taller NBA small forwards. He got consistently burned. That is what I saw. Cavs were just giving him playing time to find out where he fits and just playing experience. IMO, they found out that he has to be a 2-guard. Kuminga is a pure 3-small forward which tells me they will move Okoro to 2-guard. If they do draft Kuminga.

[JonFromVA]

I agree that Mobley is the pick at 3 if he is available and it will be either Kuminga or Barnes at 3 if Mobley is gone.
Would Altman take from OKC, picks 6 & 16 plus a future 1st round pick to give OKC pick 3 if Mobley is picked at 2.
Might still get Kuminga or Barnes at 6. Cavs also looking at Jalen Johnson of Duke also.

I don't understand people who think that the Cavs can continue to start Garland and Sexton, AND who think we should draft non-shooters. The possibility that Kuminga or Barnes turns into a good shooter his rookie year is beyond remote. The only time the Cavs spacing wasn't completely jacked last year was when Love, Nance, or Wade was shooting well enough to drag their defender, or even a defender, out of the paint. Will either Barnes or Kuminga be a better defender than his rookie year? I mean we were a 20 win team that habitually traded two points for three.

Spacing isn't a problem unique to the Sexland backcourt, the cool thing is both of those players can shoot 3's and do their part to keep the defense honest.

But hey, if we want another year in the lottery ... the formula is pretty evident. Draft a 19 year old who can't space the floor and start him, and make sure any vets we bring in (especially at the backup PG) are injury prone.

[jbk1234]

I agree that Mobley is the pick at 3 if he is available and it will be either Kuminga or Barnes at 3 if Mobley is gone.
Would Altman take from OKC, picks 6 & 16 plus a future 1st round pick to give OKC pick 3 if Mobley is picked at 2.
Might still get Kuminga or Barnes at 6. Cavs also looking at Jalen Johnson of Duke also.

I don't understand people who think that the Cavs can continue to start Garland and Sexton, AND who think we should draft non-shooters. The possibility that Kuminga or Barnes turns into a good shooter his rookie year is beyond remote. The only time the Cavs spacing wasn't completely jacked last year was when Love, Nance, or Wade was shooting well enough to drag their defender, or even a defender, out of the paint. Will either Barnes or Kuminga be a better defender than his rookie year? I mean we were a 20 win team that habitually traded two points for three.

Spacing isn't a problem unique to the Sexland backcourt, the cool thing is both of those players can shoot 3's and do their part to keep the defense honest.

But hey, if we want another year in the lottery ... the formula is pretty evident. Draft a 19 year old who can't space the floor and start him, and make sure any vets we bring in (especially at the backup PG) are injury prone.

Being a fan isn't supposed to hurt this bad.

[JonFromVA]

Okoro had alot of problems guarding taller NBA small forwards. He got consistently burned. That is what I saw. Cavs were just giving him playing time to find out where he fits and just playing experience. IMO, they found out that he has to be a 2-guard. Kuminga is a pure 3-small forward which tells me they will move Okoro to 2-guard. If they do draft Kuminga.

Okoro also had a lot of problems shooting 3's.

Which was the harder ask of the 19 year old rook?

a) Making open 3's?

b) Or guarding the best player on the other team who often had a height advantage over him?

Clearly (b) as rooks tend to struggle with any defensive assignment. The good ones will improve as they watch tape, learn tendencies, and what they have to do to slow a player down.

I still remember when Bargnani would give LeBron fits because he'd drag him in to the post, get to his sweet spot, and shoot over him; so there's always going to be someone a few inches taller you have to learn to deal with. On the flip side, I still remember when Eric Snow would end up having to defend Chris Bosh and was able to shut him down because he was built like a fire plug and could hold his ground while harassing him when he tried to dribble or pickup the ball.

The easiest thing to project here IMO is that Isaac is going to get leaps and bounds better defensively.

[JonFromVA]

I don't understand people who think that the Cavs can continue to start Garland and Sexton, AND who think we should draft non-shooters. The possibility that Kuminga or Barnes turns into a good shooter his rookie year is beyond remote. The only time the Cavs spacing wasn't completely jacked last year was when Love, Nance, or Wade was shooting well enough to drag their defender, or even a defender, out of the paint. Will either Barnes or Kuminga be a better defender than his rookie year? I mean we were a 20 win team that habitually traded two points for three.

Spacing isn't a problem unique to the Sexland backcourt, the cool thing is both of those players can shoot 3's and do their part to keep the defense honest.

But hey, if we want another year in the lottery ... the formula is pretty evident. Draft a 19 year old who can't space the floor and start him, and make sure any vets we bring in (especially at the backup PG) are injury prone.

Being a fan isn't supposed to hurt this bad.

Sixers fans loved it but they had a catchy name for it.

[jbk1234]

Okoro had alot of problems guarding taller NBA small forwards. He got consistently burned. That is what I saw. Cavs were just giving him playing time to find out where he fits and just playing experience. IMO, they found out that he has to be a 2-guard. Kuminga is a pure 3-small forward which tells me they will move Okoro to 2-guard. If they do draft Kuminga.

Okoro also had a lot of problems shooting 3's.

Which was the harder ask of the 19 year old rook?

a) Making open 3's?

b) Or guarding the best player on the other team who often had a height advantage over him?

Clearly (b) as rooks tend to struggle with any defensive assignment. The good ones will improve as they watch tape, learn tendencies, and what they have to do to slow a player down.

I still remember when Bargnani would give LeBron fits because he'd drag him in to the post, get to his sweet spot, and shoot over him; so there's always going to be someone a few inches taller you have to learn to deal with. On the flip side, I still remember when Eric Snow would end up having to defend Chris Bosh and was able to shut him down because he was built like a fire plug and could hold his ground while harassing him when he tried to dribble or pickup the ball.

The easiest thing to project here IMO is that Isaac is going to get leaps and bounds better defensively.

I don't have a problem with the Cavs taking a shot on Okoro given who else was on the board. I have a problem with the Cavs taking a bunch of Okoros in consecutive drafts when other, better players are on the board. I'm hoping this is all smoke because if this is Altman's vision for the roster, the Cavs are in trouble.

[Revenged25]

Spacing isn't a problem unique to the Sexland backcourt, the cool thing is both of those players can shoot 3's and do their part to keep the defense honest.

But hey, if we want another year in the lottery ... the formula is pretty evident. Draft a 19 year old who can't space the floor and start him, and make sure any vets we bring in (especially at the backup PG) are injury prone.

Being a fan isn't supposed to hurt this bad.

Sixers fans loved it but they had a catchy name for it.

I mean so do we. It's called "The Cavs"

[Wisedude]

Okoro had alot of problems guarding taller NBA small forwards. He got consistently burned. That is what I saw. Cavs were just giving him playing time to find out where he fits and just playing experience. IMO, they found out that he has to be a 2-guard. Kuminga is a pure 3-small forward which tells me they will move Okoro to 2-guard. If they do draft Kuminga.

Okoro also had a lot of problems shooting 3's.

Which was the harder ask of the 19 year old rook?

a) Making open 3's?

b) Or guarding the best player on the other team who often had a height advantage over him?

Clearly (b) as rooks tend to struggle with any defensive assignment. The good ones will improve as they watch tape, learn tendencies, and what they have to do to slow a player down.

I still remember when Bargnani would give LeBron fits because he'd drag him in to the post, get to his sweet spot, and shoot over him; so there's always going to be someone a few inches taller you have to learn to deal with. On the flip side, I still remember when Eric Snow would end up having to defend Chris Bosh and was able to shut him down because he was built like a fire plug and could hold his ground while harassing him when he tried to dribble or pickup the ball.

The easiest thing to project here IMO is that Isaac is going to get leaps and bounds better defensively.

I don't have a problem with the Cavs taking a shot on Okoro given who else was on the board. I have a problem with the Cavs taking a bunch of Okoros in consecutive drafts when other, better players are on the board. I'm hoping this is all smoke because if this is Altman's vision for the roster, the Cavs are in trouble.

So who do you want Altman to draft?

[jbk1234]

Okoro also had a lot of problems shooting 3's.

Which was the harder ask of the 19 year old rook?

a) Making open 3's?

b) Or guarding the best player on the other team who often had a height advantage over him?

Clearly (b) as rooks tend to struggle with any defensive assignment. The good ones will improve as they watch tape, learn tendencies, and what they have to do to slow a player down.

I still remember when Bargnani would give LeBron fits because he'd drag him in to the post, get to his sweet spot, and shoot over him; so there's always going to be someone a few inches taller you have to learn to deal with. On the flip side, I still remember when Eric Snow would end up having to defend Chris Bosh and was able to shut him down because he was built like a fire plug and could hold his ground while harassing him when he tried to dribble or pickup the ball.

The easiest thing to project here IMO is that Isaac is going to get leaps and bounds better defensively.

I don't have a problem with the Cavs taking a shot on Okoro given who else was on the board. I have a problem with the Cavs taking a bunch of Okoros in consecutive drafts when other, better players are on the board. I'm hoping this is all smoke because if this is Altman's vision for the roster, the Cavs are in trouble.

So who do you want Altman to draft?

Green, Mobley, or Suggs in that order. This isn't complicated. Don't overthink it.

[Stillwater]

Okoro had alot of problems guarding taller NBA small forwards. He got consistently burned. That is what I saw. Cavs were just giving him playing time to find out where he fits and just playing experience. IMO, they found out that he has to be a 2-guard. Kuminga is a pure 3-small forward which tells me they will move Okoro to 2-guard. If they do draft Kuminga.

If the org feels like that ...with Okoro not able to be an optimal defender on sfs as a rookie so therefore will never be...then sure they will just draft Banres or Kuminga maybe even over Mobley.
I think Okoro comes with a lot of upside as a slasher and adding a mid range pull up game makes him a starter on a good team at the 3 with a really good offensive back court. I think his defense is good enough that now that he has a year in the books and knows his competition better he will do better. I do not think his defense is at all somehow limited based on head height or anything like that to be responsible for defending only 2 guards not the way the NBA switches everything anymore it is just not a reasonable idea. He is not a good off ball guard at all, give him the ball watch him slash etc. i think ideally they draft the BPA and hope it is a position player that doesn't require core changes. But they might reach a little on a prospect that fits better now if they think that prospects upside is equal to or greater than your more reliable shooters that require roster moves.

[Wisedude]

What could be an issue about Mobley (if he is available at 3) is that he is a SoCal kid. They have a propensity to play out their rookie contract and sign with the Lakers or Clippers to go back home regardless of anything. Leonard, Paul George, etc. Altman has said in the past that they want players who want to be here. That has to be a question when they conduct interviews. It's a tough reality that has to be factored in. This is why the pick at 3 could be Kuminga since he is an African kid without any roots here. In that respect, same as Giannis who resigned with the Bucks. That is why I would really like to get 5 & 8 from ORL for 3 if possible. IMO, Green is overrated/overhyped but posters are talking like he is Brad Beal to Kobie to MJordan. It's all good, people are entitled. I look at this as all fun because I have no impact on anything....lol.

[Stillwater]

What could be an issue about Mobley (if he is available at 3) is that he is a SoCal kid. They have a propensity to play out their rookie contract and sign with the Lakers or Clippers to go back home regardless of anything. Leonard, Paul George, etc. Altman has said in the past that they want players who want to be here. That has to be a question when they conduct interviews. It's a tough reality that has to be factored in. This is why the pick at 3 could be Kuminga since he is an African kid without any roots here. In that respect, same as Giannis who resigned with the Bucks. That is why I would really like to get 5 & 8 from ORL for 3 if possible. IMO, Green is overrated/overhyped but posters are talking like he is Brad Beal to Kobie to MJordan. It's all good, people are entitled. I look at this as all fun because I have no impact on anything....lol.

I dont see how any org including CLE is going to care about where somebody is from...if that is going to be an issue than good luck finding any good prospects since almost all of them come from somewhere nicer than the 216
I agree it is always a concern but not much of one really sitting at 3

[fart]

Hilarious people are discussing taking anyone besides Mobley or Green at #3. Although, Cavs do have a track record of reaching on their picks. Very frustrating to watch and Altman should be fired on the spot if the pick is not Mobley or Green. That being said, I have very little faith that the guy that paid Love 30M a year and just traded our best prospect for a bag of chips is going to make the right decision.

[Stillwater]

Hilarious people are discussing taking anyone besides Mobley or Green at #3. Although, Cavs do have a track record of reaching on their picks. Very frustrating to watch and Altman should be fired on the spot if the pick is not Mobley or Green. That being said, I have very little faith that the guy that paid Love 30M a year and just traded our best prospect for a bag of chips is going to make the right decision.

I disagree he should be fired for taking "anyone but those 2" at all... Kuminga and Barnes are clearly better fits as is than Green without roster shake up. Green is not even as long as Okoro who many think cannot defend sf's. How is the team getting better adding a guard who can shoot like Clarkson from deep and use his first step to blow past people attacking the rim but does not defend at all, is not a great ball handler, and is nota good off ball cutter at all.This kid is overrated based on some iso moves and elite hops. I do not see him as the higher upside pick over any of Kuminga Barnes or Suggs.
Mobley is there you take him unless you think he wont stretch the floor next to Allen, then you take somebody else.
They are at a point where these prospects are all close enough in value outside maybe cade that any one of them could be the bpa for the Cavs at 3.

[jbk1234]

Hilarious people are discussing taking anyone besides Mobley or Green at #3. Although, Cavs do have a track record of reaching on their picks. Very frustrating to watch and Altman should be fired on the spot if the pick is not Mobley or Green. That being said, I have very little faith that the guy that paid Love 30M a year and just traded our best prospect for a bag of chips is going to make the right decision.

I feel like folks need to slow their roll on KPJ being the Cavs best prospect. I get the argument regarding his ceiling and potential, but he has had a lot of boom or bust games. He disappears too often to be penciling him in as a future all star and he still has a long way to go defensively. This is before you get into the off-the-court stuff. Let's see if he actually helps the Rockets win some games next year.

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