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2021-22 regular season thread

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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#881 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:51 pm

It would be nice if we could just get one dude that is willing to get dirty for a defensive stop or a rebound or a loose ball. I think Okoro can be this guy but the only other lunch pail type guy is Stevens maybe.

Also seeing Huerter only get 4/65 and just knowing that he’s a world better fit for this roster than Sexton is annoying a bit. Like we’re literally at rock bottom as is, subtracting Sexton completely can’t be that much worse. Like ok, I guess Point Cedi could be worse. :)
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#882 » by LivingLegend » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:25 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:It would be nice if we could just get one dude that is willing to get dirty for a defensive stop or a rebound or a loose ball. I think Okoro can be this guy but the only other lunch pail type guy is Stevens maybe.

Also seeing Huerter only get 4/65 and just knowing that he’s a world better fit for this roster than Sexton is annoying a bit. Like we’re literally at rock bottom as is, subtracting Sexton completely can’t be that much worse. Like ok, I guess Point Cedi could be worse. :)


Stevens is so incredibly bad on offense that it almost makes him unplayable. In a perfect world, he is a 14th guy off the bench that they bring in for defensive stops only--but hey everyone loves Matiss Thybull and Im 90% sure I am a better offensive basketball player than he is so who knows.

As far as Okoro, I watched a interview with him where he addressed how it feels going from a guy with the ball in his hands to create like he did at Auburn, to playing off the ball and only getting 7-8 shots per game. He didnt seem overly thrilled but he said it means he has to do the little things in order to make a impact since he doesnt see the ball much. I would hate for a guy of his talent level to be relegated to the SG version of Tristan Thompson because of Sexland but hey, here were are.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#883 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:50 pm

If you play around with 538’s new tool it just shows how far away this team is(theoretically). Like adding Simmons only takes them to a 7% chance at making the playoffs. Assuming that just means the 10th seed really.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#884 » by JonFromVA » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:58 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:It would be nice if we could just get one dude that is willing to get dirty for a defensive stop or a rebound or a loose ball. I think Okoro can be this guy but the only other lunch pail type guy is Stevens maybe.

Also seeing Huerter only get 4/65 and just knowing that he’s a world better fit for this roster than Sexton is annoying a bit. Like we’re literally at rock bottom as is, subtracting Sexton completely can’t be that much worse. Like ok, I guess Point Cedi could be worse. :)


Stevens is so incredibly bad on offense that it almost makes him unplayable. In a perfect world, he is a 14th guy off the bench that they bring in for defensive stops only--but hey everyone loves Matiss Thybull and Im 90% sure I am a better offensive basketball player than he is so who knows.

As far as Okoro, I watched a interview with him where he addressed how it feels going from a guy with the ball in his hands to create like he did at Auburn, to playing off the ball and only getting 7-8 shots per game. He didnt seem overly thrilled but he said it means he has to do the little things in order to make a impact since he doesnt see the ball much. I would hate for a guy of his talent level to be relegated to the SG version of Tristan Thompson because of Sexland but hey, here were are.


The majority of NBA players have to cope with the fact that they're no longer the center piece of their college/high-school/AAU team.

And some players never will be allowed to do things they used to do because they just don't do it as well as someone else on the team, but there should still be a player development goal to try to improve skills and find opportunities for the player to demonstrate them.

It's up to JBB to make sure that we run plays for each guy, and if they're successful that we go back to it ... whether that's a post up or an elbow play for our bigs or a P&R/ISO for our wings.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#885 » by JonFromVA » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:10 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:If you play around with 538’s new tool it just shows how far away this team is(theoretically). Like adding Simmons only takes them to a 7% chance at making the playoffs. Assuming that just means the 10th seed really.


These tools can't predict growth or fit, unfortunately neither can we. Of course even with growth, we still need to be better than the other teams which are all trying to grow and improve as well.

If we finished last season playing .500 ball, rather than starting out that way ... the outlook would be very different I imagine.
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Re: 2021 off season thread 

Post#886 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:15 am

JonFromVA wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:It would be nice if we could just get one dude that is willing to get dirty for a defensive stop or a rebound or a loose ball. I think Okoro can be this guy but the only other lunch pail type guy is Stevens maybe.

Also seeing Huerter only get 4/65 and just knowing that he’s a world better fit for this roster than Sexton is annoying a bit. Like we’re literally at rock bottom as is, subtracting Sexton completely can’t be that much worse. Like ok, I guess Point Cedi could be worse. :)


Stevens is so incredibly bad on offense that it almost makes him unplayable. In a perfect world, he is a 14th guy off the bench that they bring in for defensive stops only--but hey everyone loves Matiss Thybull and Im 90% sure I am a better offensive basketball player than he is so who knows.

As far as Okoro, I watched a interview with him where he addressed how it feels going from a guy with the ball in his hands to create like he did at Auburn, to playing off the ball and only getting 7-8 shots per game. He didnt seem overly thrilled but he said it means he has to do the little things in order to make a impact since he doesnt see the ball much. I would hate for a guy of his talent level to be relegated to the SG version of Tristan Thompson because of Sexland but hey, here were are.


The majority of NBA players have to cope with the fact that they're no longer the center piece of their college/high-school/AAU team.

And some players never will be allowed to do things they used to do because they just don't do it as well as someone else on the team, but there should still be a player development goal to try to improve skills and find opportunities for the player to demonstrate them.

It's up to JBB to make sure that we run plays for each guy, and if they're successful that we go back to it ... whether that's a post up or an elbow play for our bigs or a P&R/ISO for our wings.
The first part is why a third of NBA coaches won't play really young guys and put pressure on front offices to trade for more established players. They want all that coping out of their system.

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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#887 » by Harper4Ferry? » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:07 pm

Is there any indication on what we're doing with Windler's 4th year option? I assume we're picking up Garland, and Okoro.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#888 » by cavs4872 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:18 am

Fun, bizarre team so far. Hope they can continue to overachieve.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#889 » by jbk1234 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:29 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Is there any indication on what we're doing with Windler's 4th year option? I assume we're picking up Garland, and Okoro.


I assume we're declining it so we can sign more Valentines and Prangoses with the savings.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#890 » by toooskies » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:21 pm

While I'm glad we are healthy and the bench is good and we haven't needed to play Valentine or Pangos... I'm glad they're there and not Brodric Thomas, Jeremiah Martin and the like.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#891 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:33 pm

toooskies wrote:While I'm glad we are healthy and the bench is good and we haven't needed to play Valentine or Pangos... I'm glad they're there and not Brodric Thomas, Jeremiah Martin and the like.


I suspect you're glad there here precisely because we haven't needed to play them.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#892 » by Revenged25 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:47 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:While I'm glad we are healthy and the bench is good and we haven't needed to play Valentine or Pangos... I'm glad they're there and not Brodric Thomas, Jeremiah Martin and the like.


I suspect you're glad there here precisely because we haven't needed to play them.


I mean even if we did have to play them, they are still better players. It's still going to be a bad situation when they're forced to play, but at least it'll be less awful than what it might've been otherwise.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#893 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:48 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:While I'm glad we are healthy and the bench is good and we haven't needed to play Valentine or Pangos... I'm glad they're there and not Brodric Thomas, Jeremiah Martin and the like.


I suspect you're glad there here precisely because we haven't needed to play them.


I mean even if we did have to play them, they are still better players. It's still going to be a bad situation when they're forced to play, but at least it'll be less awful than what it might've been otherwise.


I'm not convinced they're any better than a number of players who are sitting home right now waiting for their agent to call them.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#894 » by toooskies » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:17 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:While I'm glad we are healthy and the bench is good and we haven't needed to play Valentine or Pangos... I'm glad they're there and not Brodric Thomas, Jeremiah Martin and the like.


I suspect you're glad there here precisely because we haven't needed to play them.

I don't expect them to be great or even good, but I also don't expect them to be disasters (Dotson, Thomas, Martin) or constantly unavailable due to injury (Delly, Exum). Valentine played 1000 rotation minutes for a mediocre team last year and if we need him to play, I expect him to be a below average (but above replacement level) NBA player. Pangos I'd hope would be the same.

And they're both on veteran minimum contracts. They're not big splurges. They're what a team trying to win should have in spots 10-15 on their roster instead of churning through the dredges of the league.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#895 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:17 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I suspect you're glad there here precisely because we haven't needed to play them.


I mean even if we did have to play them, they are still better players. It's still going to be a bad situation when they're forced to play, but at least it'll be less awful than what it might've been otherwise.


I'm not convinced they're any better than a number of players who are sitting home right now waiting for their agent to call them.


This is a case of the promise of the unknown .vs. the depressing reality of the known.

But if we can somehow escape this west coast trip playing anywhere around .500 rather than .000, it really turns the tables on preconceived notions like trading Rubio and/or Sexton before the deadline. For instance after the dust settles, if Pangos had to assume Ricky's role ... we might suddenly be driving for the lottery again rather than a playoff spot.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#896 » by toooskies » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:12 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I mean even if we did have to play them, they are still better players. It's still going to be a bad situation when they're forced to play, but at least it'll be less awful than what it might've been otherwise.


I'm not convinced they're any better than a number of players who are sitting home right now waiting for their agent to call them.


This is a case of the promise of the unknown .vs. the depressing reality of the known.

But if we can somehow escape this west coast trip playing anywhere around .500 rather than .000, it really turns the tables on preconceived notions like trading Rubio and/or Sexton before the deadline. For instance after the dust settles, if Pangos had to assume Ricky's role ... we might suddenly be driving for the lottery again rather than a playoff spot.

I'm not sure I ever expected the Cavs to trade Rubio, and only would expect a Sexton trade if this year's adjustments to new personnel left him as the odd man out.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#897 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:01 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I'm not convinced they're any better than a number of players who are sitting home right now waiting for their agent to call them.


This is a case of the promise of the unknown .vs. the depressing reality of the known.

But if we can somehow escape this west coast trip playing anywhere around .500 rather than .000, it really turns the tables on preconceived notions like trading Rubio and/or Sexton before the deadline. For instance after the dust settles, if Pangos had to assume Ricky's role ... we might suddenly be driving for the lottery again rather than a playoff spot.

I'm not sure I ever expected the Cavs to trade Rubio, and only would expect a Sexton trade if this year's adjustments to new personnel left him as the odd man out.


The Cavs like to transform their expiring assets and the underlying thought is that Ricky still wants to start and/or play for a contender- if not in the NBA then overseas.

If we become a contender, does that change? Would he consider re-signing? If so, we might reconsider and/or raise the bar in terms of what we'd want in return for him.

Winning could also change our expectations with Kevin as well.

Otherwise, if this 3 game winning streak is just a fluke ... we'll be back to looking at Kevin and Rubio as potentially matching salary in a bigger deal and most team's would prefer Rubio's expiring contract.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#898 » by JonFromVA » Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:34 pm

Our little winning streak is sweet, we actually have players with a positive +/- for a change (don't have to go to on-off).

Lance Stevens took a big jump after his performance .vs. the Clippers, but disregarding him ... Garland, Rubio, Sexton, Mobley, Allen, and Love are all positive in that order.

Then it's Okoro and Markkannen as we dip in to the negative players, then it's off a cliff to the rest.

Easy solution for Lauri to improve is to start knocking down shots. Isaac stats look a lot like last seasons, coming off the bench hasn't given him much of a boost. His FG% is better, but he's barely taking 3's and his ft shooting has been bad so it's only a slight bump to his TS%.

It would be nice to be able to evaluate Wade & Windler, but they've played like 5 minutes total between them. JBB says he will evaluate his lineups and adjust, so, it might just be a matter of time.

In other news, Larry Nance seems to be playing well in Portland and gaining some fans, but the Blazers are just 2-2 ... way too early to stick our tongue out at Larry (in fun!), but if he wanted to play for a contender ... maybe, just maybe ... he should have stuck around.

And what about Kevin Love? If we're actually ready to compete this season, our window suddenly overlaps with his. If we trade him, are we even opening up minutes for someone else? I suppose it depends what we get in return and the big if ... he can stay healthy.

Ahh well, some happy thoughts only a 3 game winning streak can bring. :lol:
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#899 » by JonFromVA » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:17 pm

Collin talked a bit about how his role has changed this season and mentioned that he's been told that his time will come in the first seconds of the shot clock and the last seconds, and in between he's spacing and just trying to feel things out about when he can cut or make a move without getting in other players way.

Or in other words, Collin's job is to attack in transition and bail us out when there's no time left on the clock and someone has to try to create a shot.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#900 » by Revenged25 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:50 pm

JonFromVA wrote:Our little winning streak is sweet, we actually have players with a positive +/- for a change (don't have to go to on-off).

Lance Stevens took a big jump after his performance .vs. the Clippers, but disregarding him ... Garland, Rubio, Sexton, Mobley, Allen, and Love are all positive in that order.

Then it's Okoro and Markkannen as we dip in to the negative players, then it's off a cliff to the rest.

Easy solution for Lauri to improve is to start knocking down shots. Isaac stats look a lot like last seasons, coming off the bench hasn't given him much of a boost. His FG% is better, but he's barely taking 3's and his ft shooting has been bad so it's only a slight bump to his TS%.

It would be nice to be able to evaluate Wade & Windler, but they've played like 5 minutes total between them. JBB says he will evaluate his lineups and adjust, so, it might just be a matter of time.

In other news, Larry Nance seems to be playing well in Portland and gaining some fans, but the Blazers are just 2-2 ... way too early to stick our tongue out at Larry (in fun!), but if he wanted to play for a contender ... maybe, just maybe ... he should have stuck around.

And what about Kevin Love? If we're actually ready to compete this season, our window suddenly overlaps with his. If we trade him, are we even opening up minutes for someone else? I suppose it depends what we get in return and the big if ... he can stay healthy.

Ahh well, some happy thoughts only a 3 game winning streak can bring. :lol:


If Love is traded it's gotta be for a matching salary, so unless it's another overpaid player it's going for a quality, or multiple quality players with the Cavs attaching some 1sts.

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