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2021-22 regular season thread

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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#921 » by jbk1234 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:57 pm

If Garland had an average backup instead of Rubio, it would be easier for fans to appreciate what Garland is doing out there at 21. But Rubio would start for a lot of teams, is great at running an offense, and is elite at playing alongside skilled big men. It makes it seem like what Garland's doing is unremarkable. If the Cavs were backing up with Garland with a guy like Pritchard or Wright, the drop off would be profound.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#922 » by toooskies » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:53 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if Rubio ends up starting for us, at least until Okoro can take the minutes Sexton will be leaving on the table at the 2.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#923 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:00 pm

jbk1234 wrote:If Garland had an average backup instead of Rubio, it would be easier for fans to appreciate what Garland is doing out there at 21. But Rubio would start for a lot of teams, is great at running an offense, and is elite at playing alongside skilled big men. It makes it seem like what Garland's doing is unremarkable. If the Cavs were backing up with Garland with a guy like Pritchard or Wright, the drop off would be profound.


otoh, teammates and team composition is all part of getting the most out of a player, so what would Darius lose if Ricky wasn't on the team?

In one way, Ricky protects Darius's stats because if it looks like he's overmatched in a specific situation JBB can tap Ricky on the shoulder and send him in to calm things down, and DG can move off the ball and become a secondary playmaker. I'm sure Ricky has helped in other ways as well.

Learning how to run an offense with 2 or 3 big men potentially clogging up the paint is non-trivial and potentially a disaster, but the Cavs have found a way to take advantage of their "vertical gravity" and it's driving defenses nuts when our guards use it properly. All it takes is a glance from the ball handler and defenders are jumping trying to stop a potential lob.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#924 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:13 pm

toooskies wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if Rubio ends up starting for us, at least until Okoro can take the minutes Sexton will be leaving on the table at the 2.


There seems to be some concern with piling up the minutes too high on Ricky, and coaches like to try to keep their rotations in tact. Okoro is expected back tonight and I expect him to get the nod, even though I'd love to see Dylan get the opportunity and Cedi has a strong claim as well.

But JBB loves Isaac and thinks he will have an easier time at SG so you can bet there will be a lot of eyes on how he does and I also expect he will get a hard long look. Isaac is basically the trump card that could push Sexton to 6th man in the Cavs plans, but they weren't just going to rip Collin out of the starting lineup on a hunch.

If this is indeed how it goes down, look for the Cavs to call some plays for Isaac - probably let him initiate some P&R.

otoh, it is possible they will choose to be cautious with Isaac and decide to let him get back in the swing of things before throwing him in the starting lineup - and that may open the door for Cedi.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#925 » by toooskies » Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:01 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if Rubio ends up starting for us, at least until Okoro can take the minutes Sexton will be leaving on the table at the 2.


There seems to be some concern with piling up the minutes too high on Ricky, and coaches like to try to keep their rotations in tact. Okoro is expected back tonight and I expect him to get the nod, even though I'd love to see Dylan get the opportunity and Cedi has a strong claim as well.

But JBB loves Isaac and thinks he will have an easier time at SG so you can bet there will be a lot of eyes on how he does and I also expect he will get a hard long look. Isaac is basically the trump card that could push Sexton to 6th man in the Cavs plans, but they weren't just going to rip Collin out of the starting lineup on a hunch.

If this is indeed how it goes down, look for the Cavs to call some plays for Isaac - probably let him initiate some P&R.

otoh, it is possible they will choose to be cautious with Isaac and decide to let him get back in the swing of things before throwing him in the starting lineup - and that may open the door for Cedi.

I expect Okoro to start a few games down the line, but you don't want to put too much run on him the first game back after a hamstring injury-- those can seem recovered until suddenly they aren't. I'd expect 15 minutes max for him tonight.

I'd be fine with Cedi or Windler getting more minutes but who knows what lineups JB will roll out. Last game we started the second quarter with Rubio/Windler/Osman/Stevens/Mobley, opting to go big and then small rather than play a traditional lineup. The previous two games it was another guard instead of Stevens. If the team is running mismatch lineups purposefully, Okoro at the 2 is a little too easy to match up with in the tall-ball lineup but he's interesting in the small-ball lineup.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#926 » by yoyoboy » Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:18 pm

The fact that the Cavs see Okoro as a 2 is so weird to me. The dude is so far away from having starting SG level handles and shooting. I’d much rather him be an undersized 3 because I have more confidence in him improving his ability to guard bigger and longer players than I do in him developing legitimate secondary ballhandler abilities.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#927 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:21 pm

yoyoboy wrote:The fact that the Cavs see Okoro as a 2 is so weird to me. The dude is so far away from having starting SG level handles and shooting. I’d much rather him be an undersized 3 because I have more confidence in him improving his ability to guard bigger and longer players than I do in him developing legitimate secondary ballhandler abilities.


That's how I see it as well, but they may be projecting where they think he can get .vs. where he is, plus, well, other dynamics may come in to it. If JBB wants the Cavs version of grit & grind, he's going to insist on putting our version of Tony Allen on the floor.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#928 » by gflem » Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:33 pm

yoyoboy wrote:The fact that the Cavs see Okoro as a 2 is so weird to me. The dude is so far away from having starting SG level handles and shooting. I’d much rather him be an undersized 3 because I have more confidence in him improving his ability to guard bigger and longer players than I do in him developing legitimate secondary ballhandler abilities.

I see him as a two, he just doesn't have the size to match up against the bigger and better 3's in the league. Does he need to improve his handle and shot? Of course, but hopefully he worked on those things over the summer and should improve with time. Not being overmatched physically on most nights should help him gain confidence as well. I just think his ceiling is higher as a guard, and the team obviously needs to find out how he handles the position while Sexton is out in order to figure out what to do with him in regards to sign or trade in the near future.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#929 » by toooskies » Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:35 pm

yoyoboy wrote:The fact that the Cavs see Okoro as a 2 is so weird to me. The dude is so far away from having starting SG level handles and shooting. I’d much rather him be an undersized 3 because I have more confidence in him improving his ability to guard bigger and longer players than I do in him developing legitimate secondary ballhandler abilities.

Okoro's mini-surge in scoring at the end of last year was primarily while playing the 2 while Garland was out, so it's something they may as well try while Sexton is out now. If only to figure out whether he can shift there if Sexton signs elsewhere next summer.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#930 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:19 pm

gflem wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:The fact that the Cavs see Okoro as a 2 is so weird to me. The dude is so far away from having starting SG level handles and shooting. I’d much rather him be an undersized 3 because I have more confidence in him improving his ability to guard bigger and longer players than I do in him developing legitimate secondary ballhandler abilities.

I see him as a two, he just doesn't have the size to match up against the bigger and better 3's in the league. Does he need to improve his handle and shot? Of course, but hopefully he worked on those things over the summer and should improve with time. Not being overmatched physically on most nights should help him gain confidence as well. I just think his ceiling is higher as a guard, and the team obviously needs to find out how he handles the position while Sexton is out in order to figure out what to do with him in regards to sign or trade in the near future.


Isaac isn't overmatched in terms of strength at SF, it's rather that he doesn't have great length and can be shot over. The ways to counter that seem a lot more straight forward and simple than improving shooting, handles, first-step, etc, etc. You learn your opponents tendencies so you can anticipate faster, you get a hand in their face when they shoot, deny them their favorite spots, and try to steal the ball when they dribble.

The Cavs do like Isaac's decision making with the ball in his hands and want to use that more, but that trait works at either wing position.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#931 » by jbk1234 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:35 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:The fact that the Cavs see Okoro as a 2 is so weird to me. The dude is so far away from having starting SG level handles and shooting. I’d much rather him be an undersized 3 because I have more confidence in him improving his ability to guard bigger and longer players than I do in him developing legitimate secondary ballhandler abilities.


That's how I see it as well, but they may be projecting where they think he can get .vs. where he is, plus, well, other dynamics may come in to it. If JBB wants the Cavs version of grit & grind, he's going to insist on putting our version of Tony Allen on the floor.


If your SF can shoot, it can work with Garland as the 1. But Lauri is going to have to hit his shots.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#932 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:54 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:The fact that the Cavs see Okoro as a 2 is so weird to me. The dude is so far away from having starting SG level handles and shooting. I’d much rather him be an undersized 3 because I have more confidence in him improving his ability to guard bigger and longer players than I do in him developing legitimate secondary ballhandler abilities.


That's how I see it as well, but they may be projecting where they think he can get .vs. where he is, plus, well, other dynamics may come in to it. If JBB wants the Cavs version of grit & grind, he's going to insist on putting our version of Tony Allen on the floor.


If your SF can shoot, it can work with Garland as the 1. But Lauri is going to have to hit his shots.


I've put my complaining about shooting on hold for the foreseeable future ... so far the Cavs haven't needed any of those new fangled NBA concepts like floor spacing.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#933 » by JonFromVA » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:44 pm

New Cavs Podcast, very first episode - basically run by superfans for superfans

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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#934 » by jbk1234 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:02 pm

JonFromVA wrote:New Cavs Podcast, very first episode - basically run by superfans for superfans



They really need to change the title of that podcast.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#935 » by JonFromVA » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:22 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:New Cavs Podcast, very first episode - basically run by superfans for superfans



They really need to change the title of that podcast.


Fred McLeod got away with calling out Rubber Rim Jobs for years.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#936 » by yoyoboy » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:40 pm

We need to have a decisive win against Detroit tonight. No letting them hang around. We're a clearly better team.

Schedule gets tough after tonight. Celtics twice in a row, and while they haven't been great, they're a terrible matchup for us with two bigger athletic wings in Brown and Tatum while we lack really any quality wings on the roster. And then we play the 8-4 Nets, 10-1 Warriors, 8-4 Nets, and 7-3 Suns all in a row. Gotta get the easy wins while you can like tonight, because we could easily win just 1 game in that stretch of 6.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#937 » by jbk1234 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:03 pm

yoyoboy wrote:We need to have a decisive win against Detroit tonight. No letting them hang around. We're a clearly better team.

Schedule gets tough after tonight. Celtics twice in a row, and while they haven't been great, they're a terrible matchup for us with two bigger athletic wings in Brown and Tatum while we lack really any quality wings on the roster. And then we play the 8-4 Nets, 10-1 Warriors, 8-4 Nets, and 7-3 Suns all in a row. Gotta get the easy wins while you can like tonight, because we could easily win just 1 game in that stretch of 6.


I actually like our chances against the Nets.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#938 » by toooskies » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:09 pm

Brown has been out of the Celts' lineup with an injured hamstring, he may or may not be back in time to play us.

I like our chances against the Nets too, eager to see if Mobley gets KD defensively.
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#939 » by LesGrossman » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:09 pm

toooskies wrote:Brown has been out of the Celts' lineup with an injured hamstring, he may or may not be back in time to play us.

I like our chances against the Nets too, eager to see if Mobley gets KD defensively.

Noone can stop KD anyway. Best player in the league. Gotta stop the others tho
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Re: 2021-22 regular season thread 

Post#940 » by cavs4872 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:46 pm

Man, hopefully LBJ comes back for one final hurrah. We have all the pieces and youth for another run.

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