2021-22 regular season thread

[Revenged25]

Yeah, the problem is Warren needs to be under contract for two years with LeVert expiring and it's the other way around. Warren could end up getting a dumb offer elsewhere, which the Cavs might not even get a chance to match, and then you're sitting there with LeVert making $18M per as your trade asset instead of an expiring Love, Sexton, and/or your first.

I think the best play is to let Okoro and Windler develop this season with Mobley and Lauri and then see what's out there this summer. I try to talk myself into a Heild/Barnes for Love/Sexton/protected 1st trade, but I'm not sure the Kings are sellers, and I could really see Heild getting torched defensively in the playoffs.

Yeah the best chance for the Cavs to make an upgrade is to try to jump in on a superstar trade again and try to reroute a non-rebuilding piece to them while sending out the necessary assets like they did with Allen.

Duplicating what we did in the Allen trade is going to be nearly impossible. Mostly because we don't have the flexibility to take on a bad salary like Prince's. There isn't a guy making a decent paycheck that we wouldn't have some regret parting with. Even Love is a star in his role.

Which is why no trade should be made this season unless they are getting a clear star due to salary situation. I expect Sexton to end up caving on the 5th year and end up with a 5/100 deal, which makes it a very tradeable contract, good value for what he brings even if he becomes the 6th man, and honestly he might end up being exactly what we were looking for in trade. He started the season shooting poorly trying to adjust to a new role. He might come in next year and know exactly what the team needs from him as we won't be trying to figure out if this line-up would work, who needed to do what, etc, it's already defined what we need from the 5th starter. Which honestly is more or less what Sexton was last year only less ball dominant.

[jbk1234]

Yeah the best chance for the Cavs to make an upgrade is to try to jump in on a superstar trade again and try to reroute a non-rebuilding piece to them while sending out the necessary assets like they did with Allen.

Duplicating what we did in the Allen trade is going to be nearly impossible. Mostly because we don't have the flexibility to take on a bad salary like Prince's. There isn't a guy making a decent paycheck that we wouldn't have some regret parting with. Even Love is a star in his role.

Which is why no trade should be made this season unless they are getting a clear star due to salary situation. I expect Sexton to end up caving on the 5th year and end up with a 5/100 deal, which makes it a very tradeable contract, good value for what he brings even if he becomes the 6th man, and honestly he might end up being exactly what we were looking for in trade. He started the season shooting poorly trying to adjust to a new role. He might come in next year and know exactly what the team needs from him as we won't be trying to figure out if this line-up would work, who needed to do what, etc, it's already defined what we need from the 5th starter. Which honestly is more or less what Sexton was last year only less ball dominant.

The Cavs have had the highest jump in offensive efficiency as a team, of any team, from last year. I think there's zero chance that $20M per is still on the table regardless of the number of years.

[Revenged25]

Duplicating what we did in the Allen trade is going to be nearly impossible. Mostly because we don't have the flexibility to take on a bad salary like Prince's. There isn't a guy making a decent paycheck that we wouldn't have some regret parting with. Even Love is a star in his role.

Which is why no trade should be made this season unless they are getting a clear star due to salary situation. I expect Sexton to end up caving on the 5th year and end up with a 5/100 deal, which makes it a very tradeable contract, good value for what he brings even if he becomes the 6th man, and honestly he might end up being exactly what we were looking for in trade. He started the season shooting poorly trying to adjust to a new role. He might come in next year and know exactly what the team needs from him as we won't be trying to figure out if this line-up would work, who needed to do what, etc, it's already defined what we need from the 5th starter. Which honestly is more or less what Sexton was last year only less ball dominant.

The Cavs have had the highest jump in offensive efficiency as a team, of any team, from last year. I think there's zero chance that $20M per is still on the table regardless of the number of years.

I think you're going to be disappointed then. The team's jump in efficiency isn't due to a lack of Sexton but just better talent. They still need someone that can create their own shot and Sexton is damn good and efficient at doing it. Plus giving him $20M per still keeps him on the good contract scale of things, but also means it's easier for the Cavs to match contracts if they decide to make a move for a better player than Sexton next year.

[jbk1234]

Which is why no trade should be made this season unless they are getting a clear star due to salary situation. I expect Sexton to end up caving on the 5th year and end up with a 5/100 deal, which makes it a very tradeable contract, good value for what he brings even if he becomes the 6th man, and honestly he might end up being exactly what we were looking for in trade. He started the season shooting poorly trying to adjust to a new role. He might come in next year and know exactly what the team needs from him as we won't be trying to figure out if this line-up would work, who needed to do what, etc, it's already defined what we need from the 5th starter. Which honestly is more or less what Sexton was last year only less ball dominant.

The Cavs have had the highest jump in offensive efficiency as a team, of any team, from last year. I think there's zero chance that $20M per is still on the table regardless of the number of years.

I think you're going to be disappointed then. The team's jump in efficiency isn't due to a lack of Sexton but just better talent. They still need someone that can create their own shot and Sexton is damn good and efficient at doing it. Plus giving him $20M per still keeps him on the good contract scale of things, but also means it's easier for the Cavs to match contracts if they decide to make a move for a better player than Sexton next year.

I don't think I'm the one who's going to be disappointed. Sexton may be back, but it's not going to be for $20M per.

[jbk1234]

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[JonFromVA]

We could us a combo guard that can help us in case one of our points gets hurt and get some buckets. I wish he was taller, but Collin had a chance to show he could fill that role. Could have also used Hartenstein on the bench for front court insurance too. Were likely overvaluing what we've got because we're winning, but that's how it works ... and who knows ... Love may have positive value? Having Rubio and Love coming off the bench is a luxury, but we can't trust Kevin to stay healthy. Maybe we're using him the right way now so he can maintain his health, but that might just be wishful thinking.

Selling high is much preferable ...

[jbk1234]

We could us a combo guard that can help us in case one of our points gets hurt and get some buckets. I wish he was taller, but Collin had a chance to show he could fill that role. Could have also used Hartenstein on the bench for front court insurance too. Were likely overvaluing what we've got because we're winning, but that's how it works ... and who knows ... Love may have positive value? Having Rubio and Love coming off the bench is a luxury, but we can't trust Kevin to stay healthy. Maybe we're using him the right way now so he can maintain his health, but that might just be wishful thinking.

Selling high is much preferable ...

The problem I see is your not going to be able sell high on Love, more like selling less low, and I'm skeptical that trade results in a net benefit versus just waiting until next summer when he's on an expiring contract.

Plus, if Lauri develops into a legitimate option at SF, then our backup bigs start to look a little thin if we deal Love in-season.

We're continuing to win as we develop our young guys. The chemistry is great. The trajectory is good. The schedule is getting easier. Kinda seems like found money. My vote would be to stay the course.

[JonFromVA]

We could us a combo guard that can help us in case one of our points gets hurt and get some buckets. I wish he was taller, but Collin had a chance to show he could fill that role. Could have also used Hartenstein on the bench for front court insurance too. Were likely overvaluing what we've got because we're winning, but that's how it works ... and who knows ... Love may have positive value? Having Rubio and Love coming off the bench is a luxury, but we can't trust Kevin to stay healthy. Maybe we're using him the right way now so he can maintain his health, but that might just be wishful thinking.

Selling high is much preferable ...

The problem I see is your not going to be able sell high on Love, more like selling less low, and I'm skeptical that trade results in a net benefit versus just waiting until next summer when he's on an expiring contract.

Plus, if Lauri develops into a legitimate option at SF, then our backup bigs start to look a little thin if we deal Love in-season.

We're continuing to win as we develop our young guys. The chemistry is great. The trajectory is good. The schedule is getting easier. Kinda seems like found money. My vote would be to stay the course.

There should be no rush to force a deal, so I'm talking the usual Cavs tire kicking on every trade rumor and looking for opportunities. I'm sure Altman will be ready to strike given the opportunity... but if they identify a move that can help us get past the top East teams ... why not go for it?

Which is why I brought up the question what we'd need to beat them ... and well ... who? Are we afraid of Brooklyn? Miami with Butler? I'm not sure, certainly the Bucks but that was a b2b.

[jbk1234]

We could us a combo guard that can help us in case one of our points gets hurt and get some buckets. I wish he was taller, but Collin had a chance to show he could fill that role. Could have also used Hartenstein on the bench for front court insurance too. Were likely overvaluing what we've got because we're winning, but that's how it works ... and who knows ... Love may have positive value? Having Rubio and Love coming off the bench is a luxury, but we can't trust Kevin to stay healthy. Maybe we're using him the right way now so he can maintain his health, but that might just be wishful thinking.

Selling high is much preferable ...

The problem I see is your not going to be able sell high on Love, more like selling less low, and I'm skeptical that trade results in a net benefit versus just waiting until next summer when he's on an expiring contract.

Plus, if Lauri develops into a legitimate option at SF, then our backup bigs start to look a little thin if we deal Love in-season.

We're continuing to win as we develop our young guys. The chemistry is great. The trajectory is good. The schedule is getting easier. Kinda seems like found money. My vote would be to stay the course.

There should be no rush to force a deal, so I'm talking the usual Cavs tire kicking on every trade rumor and looking for opportunities. I'm sure Altman will be ready to strike given the opportunity... but if they identify a move that can help us get past the top East teams ... why not go for it?

Which is why I brought up the question what we'd need to beat them ... and well ... who? Are we afraid of Brooklyn? Miami with Butler? I'm not sure, certainly the Bucks but that was a b2b.

The fundamental problem I see is that Mobley is still going to be a 20 year old rookie and Garland is still going to be a 21 year old PG. It took LBJ until his 4th year in the NBA, and an insane double overtime performance, to get by the Pistons. Our team is a little green to think that a role player, even a high-end one, is going to vault them to the Finals.

[KuruptedCav]

We could us a combo guard that can help us in case one of our points gets hurt and get some buckets. I wish he was taller, but Collin had a chance to show he could fill that role. Could have also used Hartenstein on the bench for front court insurance too. Were likely overvaluing what we've got because we're winning, but that's how it works ... and who knows ... Love may have positive value? Having Rubio and Love coming off the bench is a luxury, but we can't trust Kevin to stay healthy. Maybe we're using him the right way now so he can maintain his health, but that might just be wishful thinking.

Selling high is much preferable ...

A 3rd PG would be ideal. Honestly was hoping it would be Dante Exum until he suited up in Spain last night. His contract is 3mos long, so he’ll be NBA playoff eligible.

Love doesn’t have positive value. He won’t until the trade deadline of 2022, assuming he’s healthy at that point. Best time to move him is next summer. Not only because max trade partners but also the ability to fill his roll.

Swapping Love or Rubio for a wing just trades one problem area for another while disrupting chem.


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[Revenged25]

We could us a combo guard that can help us in case one of our points gets hurt and get some buckets. I wish he was taller, but Collin had a chance to show he could fill that role. Could have also used Hartenstein on the bench for front court insurance too. Were likely overvaluing what we've got because we're winning, but that's how it works ... and who knows ... Love may have positive value? Having Rubio and Love coming off the bench is a luxury, but we can't trust Kevin to stay healthy. Maybe we're using him the right way now so he can maintain his health, but that might just be wishful thinking.

Selling high is much preferable ...

Games like vs the Kings where they just start locking down Garland full court stifles the offense so much that Rubio has to come in as the 2nd guard and really limits the scoring options as he's not really a threat typically. Sexton would've been ideal in this game so that he could punish them for going to man defense and focusing Garland as he could just Iso them to death as they didn't have a 2nd defender of the caliber needed to stop both Garland's creating offense for others and Sexton iso.

[JonFromVA]

The problem I see is your not going to be able sell high on Love, more like selling less low, and I'm skeptical that trade results in a net benefit versus just waiting until next summer when he's on an expiring contract.

Plus, if Lauri develops into a legitimate option at SF, then our backup bigs start to look a little thin if we deal Love in-season.

We're continuing to win as we develop our young guys. The chemistry is great. The trajectory is good. The schedule is getting easier. Kinda seems like found money. My vote would be to stay the course.

There should be no rush to force a deal, so I'm talking the usual Cavs tire kicking on every trade rumor and looking for opportunities. I'm sure Altman will be ready to strike given the opportunity... but if they identify a move that can help us get past the top East teams ... why not go for it?

Which is why I brought up the question what we'd need to beat them ... and well ... who? Are we afraid of Brooklyn? Miami with Butler? I'm not sure, certainly the Bucks but that was a b2b.

The fundamental problem I see is that Mobley is still going to be a 20 year old rookie and Garland is still going to be a 21 year old PG. It took LBJ until his 4th year in the NBA, and an insane double overtime performance, to get by the Pistons. Our team is a little green to think that a role player, even a high-end one, is going to vault them to the Finals.

Phoenix went to the finals out of the West just last year because all the supposedly great teams weren't.

Milwaukee has championship experience, but it was just beating that Suns team. They weren't the favorites. Miami went to the bubble finals the year before.

There may be a window open in the East for whoever figures out how to jump through it. After all it was the Rasheed Wallace trade that propelled the Pistons to a championship and it didn't cost them much.

[jbk1234]

We could us a combo guard that can help us in case one of our points gets hurt and get some buckets. I wish he was taller, but Collin had a chance to show he could fill that role. Could have also used Hartenstein on the bench for front court insurance too. Were likely overvaluing what we've got because we're winning, but that's how it works ... and who knows ... Love may have positive value? Having Rubio and Love coming off the bench is a luxury, but we can't trust Kevin to stay healthy. Maybe we're using him the right way now so he can maintain his health, but that might just be wishful thinking.

Selling high is much preferable ...

Games like vs the Kings where they just start locking down Garland full court stifles the offense so much that Rubio has to come in as the 2nd guard and really limits the scoring options as he's not really a threat typically. Sexton would've been ideal in this game so that he could punish them for going to man defense and focusing Garland as he could just Iso them to death as they didn't have a 2nd defender of the caliber needed to stop both Garland's creating offense for others and Sexton iso.

The problem is your banking the 80 points and 30 point lead the Cavs had at the half and then inserting Sexton into the hypothetical.

Sexton wouldn't have been on the bench the entire first half and how he would've impacted the team offensively and defensively is an open question.

[Revenged25]

We could us a combo guard that can help us in case one of our points gets hurt and get some buckets. I wish he was taller, but Collin had a chance to show he could fill that role. Could have also used Hartenstein on the bench for front court insurance too. Were likely overvaluing what we've got because we're winning, but that's how it works ... and who knows ... Love may have positive value? Having Rubio and Love coming off the bench is a luxury, but we can't trust Kevin to stay healthy. Maybe we're using him the right way now so he can maintain his health, but that might just be wishful thinking.

Selling high is much preferable ...

Games like vs the Kings where they just start locking down Garland full court stifles the offense so much that Rubio has to come in as the 2nd guard and really limits the scoring options as he's not really a threat typically. Sexton would've been ideal in this game so that he could punish them for going to man defense and focusing Garland as he could just Iso them to death as they didn't have a 2nd defender of the caliber needed to stop both Garland's creating offense for others and Sexton iso.

The problem is your banking the 80 points and 30 point lead the Cavs had at the half and then inserting Sexton into the hypothetical.

Sexton wouldn't have been on the bench the entire first half and how he would've impacted the team offensively and defensively is an open question.

Now you just talking silly. This has nothing to do with 80 points in the 1st half and a 30 pt lead. It has everything to do with the fact that when teams start trapping Garland so he can't just do what he wants to create his own and other's shots, they need someone that can at minimum create for themselves otherwise they'll grind to a standstill. Sexton could've been creating for himself and whether you want to admit it or not he had been trying to get his teammates involved more so he wouldn't just be driving into trees.

[jbk1234]

Games like vs the Kings where they just start locking down Garland full court stifles the offense so much that Rubio has to come in as the 2nd guard and really limits the scoring options as he's not really a threat typically. Sexton would've been ideal in this game so that he could punish them for going to man defense and focusing Garland as he could just Iso them to death as they didn't have a 2nd defender of the caliber needed to stop both Garland's creating offense for others and Sexton iso.

The problem is your banking the 80 points and 30 point lead the Cavs had at the half and then inserting Sexton into the hypothetical.

Sexton wouldn't have been on the bench the entire first half and how he would've impacted the team offensively and defensively is an open question.

Now you just talking silly. This has nothing to do with 80 points in the 1st half and a 30 pt lead. It has everything to do with the fact that when teams start trapping Garland so he can't just do what he wants to create his own and other's shots, they need someone that can at minimum create for themselves otherwise they'll grind to a standstill. Sexton could've been creating for himself and whether you want to admit it or not he had been trying to get his teammates involved more so he wouldn't just be driving into trees.

I'm pointing out that it's not at all clear that Sexton can transition to a lower usage guy who can do what you're asking only when needed, and/or do things that help the team win when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. The Kings were demonstrably better with Fox on the bench.

[Harper4Ferry?]

It's very hard to make a trade with our roster. Lets just say they are fine with moving Sexton and pieces in a deal. Best aggregate amount of contracts together that I can come up with is Sexton/Valentine/Windler and my math has us able to acquire a player making 13.26 million back for those three, and us taking back 2 more minimum guys.
In that range are the following guys:
KCP
Kuzma
Covington
Kennard
TJ Warren(hurt)

[Revenged25]

It's very hard to make a trade with our roster. Lets just say they are fine with moving Sexton and pieces in a deal. Best aggregate amount of contracts together that I can come up with is Sexton/Valentine/Windler and my math has us able to acquire a player making 13.26 million back for those three, and us taking back 2 more minimum guys.
In that range are the following guys:
KCP
Kuzma
Covington
Kennard
TJ Warren(hurt)

Using previous rumors and open cap space etc, here's an easy one that could help the team.

CLE sends: Collin Sexton
CLE receives: Cam Reddish

ATL sends: Cam Reddish
ATL receives: '22 1st worst of LAC/PHO

OKC sends: '22 1st worst of LAC/PHO
OKC receives: Collin Sexton

ATL cashes out on the player they are least likely to end up paying and getting a 1st for it.
OKC consolidates one of their numerous firsts for a player that will be much better than anything they could've gotten at that pick and since they're tanking anyways Sexton being hurt doesn't matter.
CLE gets a someone that has shot 37% from 3pt on 4+ attempts a game that can also defend, letting Okoro go back to bench and Reddish can also slide up to defend at the SF position as well with his better size.

[JonFromVA]

It's very hard to make a trade with our roster. Lets just say they are fine with moving Sexton and pieces in a deal. Best aggregate amount of contracts together that I can come up with is Sexton/Valentine/Windler and my math has us able to acquire a player making 13.26 million back for those three, and us taking back 2 more minimum guys.
In that range are the following guys:
KCP
Kuzma
Covington
Kennard
TJ Warren(hurt)

Using previous rumors and open cap space etc, here's an easy one that could help the team.

CLE sends: Collin Sexton
CLE receives: Cam Reddish

ATL sends: Cam Reddish
ATL receives: '22 1st worst of LAC/PHO

OKC sends: '22 1st worst of LAC/PHO
OKC receives: Collin Sexton

ATL cashes out on the player they are least likely to end up paying and getting a 1st for it.
OKC consolidates one of their numerous firsts for a player that will be much better than anything they could've gotten at that pick and since they're tanking anyways Sexton being hurt doesn't matter.
CLE gets a someone that has shot 37% from 3pt on 4+ attempts a game that can also defend, letting Okoro go back to bench and Reddish can also slide up to defend at the SF position as well with his better size.

We're sitting on a $4.2M trade exception left over from JaVale McGee that matches Reddish's salary. If I thought he was a key piece to completing this roster I'd trade our own #1 and save the Hawks some salary, and pay the luxury tax, etc.

He's shown glimpses, but I'm not convinced he's that guy and is a risk for an overpay.

[jbk1234]

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[Jorgeglez7]

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I really like Okoro. He is showing good work ethic and Epic defense and attitude even when the shots won't go down.

I also like his teammates giving him the ball to shoot It even when they know he struggles. This team IS just cool.