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The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back?

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JonFromVA
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#21 » by JonFromVA » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:16 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I think Wiggins still might've been the pick. He filled a need and was a great prospect in his own right.


Wiggins was considered the safer pick before it was discovered Embiid had a new injury. Dan didn't want to throw away a season (or more) when there was a viable pick right there.

And like I mentioned, the Cavs had above-the-table negotiations with the TWolves regarding Love well in advance, that's how they knew what Flip wanted. If they knew James was returning too they would have pulled the trigger on the agreed deal, not left Wiggins hanging for months, and likely taken care of clearing up cap space for James we ended up dealing with by trading future picks.

Dude there is such a thing as a moratorium


Trades can begin as soon as both team's season ends.
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#22 » by Revenged25 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:29 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Wiggins was considered the safer pick before it was discovered Embiid had a new injury. Dan didn't want to throw away a season (or more) when there was a viable pick right there.

And like I mentioned, the Cavs had above-the-table negotiations with the TWolves regarding Love well in advance, that's how they knew what Flip wanted. If they knew James was returning too they would have pulled the trigger on the agreed deal, not left Wiggins hanging for months, and likely taken care of clearing up cap space for James we ended up dealing with by trading future picks.

Dude there is such a thing as a moratorium


Trades can begin as soon as both team's season ends.


The moratorium is about trading Wiggins after he was drafted.
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#23 » by Stillwater » Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:18 am

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Dude there is such a thing as a moratorium


Trades can begin as soon as both team's season ends.


The moratorium is about trading Wiggins after he was drafted.

I think they knew they were trading Wiggins to the Wolves when they picked him but were ok with keeping him if something fell apart with other plans etc but yeah there is a moratorium and it was necessary process given the situation if I remember correctly. Which I might not be that was many many spins of the barstool ago...
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#24 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:50 am

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Trades can begin as soon as both team's season ends.


The moratorium is about trading Wiggins after he was drafted.

I think they knew they were trading Wiggins to the Wolves when they picked him but were ok with keeping him if something fell apart with other plans etc but yeah there is a moratorium and it was necessary process given the situation if I remember correctly. Which I might not be that was many many spins of the barstool ago...
What happened was we needed Wiggins salary to match so we had to sign him first, and then there's a waiting period after you do that.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#25 » by Stillwater » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:51 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
The moratorium is about trading Wiggins after he was drafted.

I think they knew they were trading Wiggins to the Wolves when they picked him but were ok with keeping him if something fell apart with other plans etc but yeah there is a moratorium and it was necessary process given the situation if I remember correctly. Which I might not be that was many many spins of the barstool ago...
What happened was we needed Wiggins salary to match so we had to sign him first, and then there's a waiting period after you do that.

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yeah that was it
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#26 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:26 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Dude there is such a thing as a moratorium


Trades can begin as soon as both team's season ends.


The moratorium is about trading Wiggins after he was drafted.


There's lots of moratoriums, but that one didn't click in until the Cavs signed Wiggins to a contract.

So, let me try to spell this out again...

If the Cavs knew James would return, they could have pulled off a trade for Kevin Love before Wiggins was drafted or before he was signed. Once the world knew that James' return was more than a rumor they lost a ton of leverage on every trade they made. Before that? Even Brian Windhorst refused to believe James would leave Miami.
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#27 » by Revenged25 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:30 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Trades can begin as soon as both team's season ends.


The moratorium is about trading Wiggins after he was drafted.


There's lots of moratoriums, but that one didn't click in until the Cavs signed Wiggins to a contract.

So, let me try to spell this out again...

If the Cavs knew James would return, they could have pulled off a trade for Kevin Love before Wiggins was drafted or before he was signed. Once the world knew that James' return was more than a rumor they lost a ton of leverage on every trade they made. Before that? Even Brian Windhorst refused to believe James would leave Miami.


They needed Wiggins' contract to match salaries with Love. Plus until LeBron returned the Cavs weren't going to make the trade as Love wouldn't commit to an extension so trading Wiggins for an uncommitted Love made 0 sense.
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#28 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:46 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
The moratorium is about trading Wiggins after he was drafted.


There's lots of moratoriums, but that one didn't click in until the Cavs signed Wiggins to a contract.

So, let me try to spell this out again...

If the Cavs knew James would return, they could have pulled off a trade for Kevin Love before Wiggins was drafted or before he was signed. Once the world knew that James' return was more than a rumor they lost a ton of leverage on every trade they made. Before that? Even Brian Windhorst refused to believe James would leave Miami.


They needed Wiggins' contract to match salaries with Love. Plus until LeBron returned the Cavs weren't going to make the trade as Love wouldn't commit to an extension so trading Wiggins for an uncommitted Love made 0 sense.


Stillwater claimed the Cavs knew James would return before they drafted Wiggins, the actual evidence suggests the opposite.

They needed Wiggins contract as part of the trade AFTER drafting him and signing James; but ideally they would have traded for Love before the draft, included rights to the #1 and included enough other contracts in the deal to clear space for a max offer right then and there before any other team knew what was going on and could use James as leverage against them.
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#29 » by Stillwater » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:25 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
There's lots of moratoriums, but that one didn't click in until the Cavs signed Wiggins to a contract.

So, let me try to spell this out again...

If the Cavs knew James would return, they could have pulled off a trade for Kevin Love before Wiggins was drafted or before he was signed. Once the world knew that James' return was more than a rumor they lost a ton of leverage on every trade they made. Before that? Even Brian Windhorst refused to believe James would leave Miami.


They needed Wiggins' contract to match salaries with Love. Plus until LeBron returned the Cavs weren't going to make the trade as Love wouldn't commit to an extension so trading Wiggins for an uncommitted Love made 0 sense.


Stillwater claimed the Cavs knew James would return before they drafted Wiggins, the actual evidence suggests the opposite.

They needed Wiggins contract as part of the trade AFTER drafting him and signing James; but ideally they would have traded for Love before the draft, included rights to the #1 and included enough other contracts in the deal to clear space for a max offer right then and there before any other team knew what was going on and could use James as leverage against them.

I think they did know it and in fact Lebron alone is what pushed the entire thing to happen but knowing Gilbert he was probably just a tad hesitant as anyone would assume given the last go around.
You need to try reading between the lines sometimes to see the truth no? I dont really care though so carry on
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#30 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:29 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
They needed Wiggins' contract to match salaries with Love. Plus until LeBron returned the Cavs weren't going to make the trade as Love wouldn't commit to an extension so trading Wiggins for an uncommitted Love made 0 sense.


Stillwater claimed the Cavs knew James would return before they drafted Wiggins, the actual evidence suggests the opposite.

They needed Wiggins contract as part of the trade AFTER drafting him and signing James; but ideally they would have traded for Love before the draft, included rights to the #1 and included enough other contracts in the deal to clear space for a max offer right then and there before any other team knew what was going on and could use James as leverage against them.

I think they did know it and in fact Lebron alone is what pushed the entire thing to happen but knowing Gilbert he was probably just a tad hesitant as anyone would assume given the last go around.
You need to try reading between the lines sometimes to see the truth no? I dont really care though so carry on


Or maybe I just know more about what went on than you do and because of that I see how it all fits together; yet when I toss you some breadcrumbs to help you see "between the lines" you stick to what you think because ... it's what you think.

But of course you don't care about facts, the truth, or even nuance, goes without saying.
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#31 » by Stillwater » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:47 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater claimed the Cavs knew James would return before they drafted Wiggins, the actual evidence suggests the opposite.

They needed Wiggins contract as part of the trade AFTER drafting him and signing James; but ideally they would have traded for Love before the draft, included rights to the #1 and included enough other contracts in the deal to clear space for a max offer right then and there before any other team knew what was going on and could use James as leverage against them.

I think they did know it and in fact Lebron alone is what pushed the entire thing to happen but knowing Gilbert he was probably just a tad hesitant as anyone would assume given the last go around.
You need to try reading between the lines sometimes to see the truth no? I dont really care though so carry on


Or maybe I just know more about what went on than you do and because of that I see how it all fits together; yet when I toss you some breadcrumbs to help you see "between the lines" you stick to what you think because ... it's what you think.

But of course you don't care about facts, the truth, or even nuance, goes without saying.

toss yourself some breadcrumbs lol I dont need your nonsense rhetoric either you are obviously not 100% accurate nobody is
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING
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Re: The treadmill of losing: what if LeBron didn't come back? 

Post#32 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:14 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I think they did know it and in fact Lebron alone is what pushed the entire thing to happen but knowing Gilbert he was probably just a tad hesitant as anyone would assume given the last go around.
You need to try reading between the lines sometimes to see the truth no? I dont really care though so carry on


Or maybe I just know more about what went on than you do and because of that I see how it all fits together; yet when I toss you some breadcrumbs to help you see "between the lines" you stick to what you think because ... it's what you think.

But of course you don't care about facts, the truth, or even nuance, goes without saying.


toss yourself some breadcrumbs lol I dont need your nonsense rhetoric either you are obviously not 100% accurate nobody is


What's your evidence for that claim?

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