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Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million

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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#141 » by toooskies » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:33 am

Taikuri wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The last couple games, opposing teams have started game planning for him. We'll see how he adjusts.


That's one of the cool things about this team (with Collin MIA), nobody is really wired to force their game when it's not working. That's why we have 8 players currently scoring in double digits. Take away Collin if you want and call it 7, but Isaac isn't far off joining the party.

otoh, a winning streak does wonders for a team's +/- numbers. Even Isaac has a +4.6 pp100 OnCourt at the moment (worst among starters).


It's a fun team to watch. So steady performances, even if some players are missing. I think the steadiness would take a hit if Garland would be absent or Allen. Rubio could step in for Garland and do well though.

I love to watch Kevin Love on the bench or on the court when his teammates do something well. He seems to be genuinely so positive despite of being a star player and made not to be a starter in this team (from his point of view he could say unfairly put to bench). He is truly a good teammate. I want to ask you guys, was Kevin Love like this last season as well during games in terms of positive body language? That 22-50 win loss record seems pretty depressing so I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin Love showed different body language last season for that reason. I know how it feels like cause Bulls had many seasons like that not long ago and to be honest I expected Cleveland to have another season like that this season.

Oh no, Love got frustrated about everyone's play on the court as an extension of being frustrated about his calf injury that didn't go away. Signature moment here:

Reality kind of hit him when he couldn't make the Olympic team. So he really did the work to be prepared this season while being humble about leading the bench crew.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#142 » by JonFromVA » Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:35 am

Kevin's health seems to be in a good place, and all he wanted when he signed that extension was to be on a competitive team. The reunion with Ricky was drama free, and Love has admitted many times he was immature in Minnesota.

Fans moaned for years that Kevin's contract timeline didn't overlap with our rebuild, but here we are ... loving it ... but fingers crossed he can stay on the floor.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#143 » by Taikuri » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:14 pm

toooskies wrote:Oh no, Love got frustrated about everyone's play on the court as an extension of being frustrated about his calf injury that didn't go away. Signature moment here:

Reality kind of hit him when he couldn't make the Olympic team. So he really did the work to be prepared this season while being humble about leading the bench crew.


That's funny and I haven't seen that before. It's great to see Love being motivated again now.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#144 » by KuruptedCav » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:04 pm

Taikuri wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The last couple games, opposing teams have started game planning for him. We'll see how he adjusts.


That's one of the cool things about this team (with Collin MIA), nobody is really wired to force their game when it's not working. That's why we have 8 players currently scoring in double digits. Take away Collin if you want and call it 7, but Isaac isn't far off joining the party.

otoh, a winning streak does wonders for a team's +/- numbers. Even Isaac has a +4.6 pp100 OnCourt at the moment (worst among starters).


It's a fun team to watch. So steady performances, even if some players are missing. I think the steadiness would take a hit if Garland would be absent or Allen. Rubio could step in for Garland and do well though.

I love to watch Kevin Love on the bench or on the court when his teammates do something well. He seems to be genuinely so positive despite of being a star player and made not to be a starter in this team (from his point of view he could say unfairly put to bench). He is truly a good teammate. I want to ask you guys, was Kevin Love like this last season as well during games in terms of positive body language? That 22-50 win loss record seems pretty depressing so I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin Love showed different body language last season for that reason. I know how it feels like cause Bulls had many seasons like that not long ago and to be honest I expected Cleveland to have another season like that this season.

Kevin is Kevin. He has anxiety and depression that he manages and hasn’t been a pinnacle of physical health. When he has a support system and isn’t isolated, he’s the consulate teammate most of the time. When he’s on an island, everything percolates and it’s a bad situation.

The maturation of the team, being back with his teammates, the defining of his role, and the inclusion of Rubio has all helped Love be Love. And hopefully, he’s able to continue enjoying this and developing positive relationships with his teammates.


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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#145 » by Taikuri » Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:18 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:
Taikuri wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
That's one of the cool things about this team (with Collin MIA), nobody is really wired to force their game when it's not working. That's why we have 8 players currently scoring in double digits. Take away Collin if you want and call it 7, but Isaac isn't far off joining the party.

otoh, a winning streak does wonders for a team's +/- numbers. Even Isaac has a +4.6 pp100 OnCourt at the moment (worst among starters).


It's a fun team to watch. So steady performances, even if some players are missing. I think the steadiness would take a hit if Garland would be absent or Allen. Rubio could step in for Garland and do well though.

I love to watch Kevin Love on the bench or on the court when his teammates do something well. He seems to be genuinely so positive despite of being a star player and made not to be a starter in this team (from his point of view he could say unfairly put to bench). He is truly a good teammate. I want to ask you guys, was Kevin Love like this last season as well during games in terms of positive body language? That 22-50 win loss record seems pretty depressing so I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin Love showed different body language last season for that reason. I know how it feels like cause Bulls had many seasons like that not long ago and to be honest I expected Cleveland to have another season like that this season.

Kevin is Kevin. He has anxiety and depression that he manages and hasn’t been a pinnacle of physical health. When he has a support system and isn’t isolated, he’s the consulate teammate most of the time. When he’s on an island, everything percolates and it’s a bad situation.

The maturation of the team, being back with his teammates, the defining of his role, and the inclusion of Rubio has all helped Love be Love. And hopefully, he’s able to continue enjoying this and developing positive relationships with his teammates.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app


Oh yeah I didn't remember that about Love. They mentioned it as far away as in Finland where I live, on Finnish sports news sites long time ago that he had "mental issues". Some people understand that the wrong way as in a person being crazy but really it's just something most people have. Some people have more of those and some people have less. In today's world where media and social media are what they are, it takes courage to say something like that publicly as I believe Love did say that publicly, because social media & media can quickly take the wrong narrative and do harm on people in various ways.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#146 » by Bullstuff » Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:19 pm

Lauri simply has to do better than he has lately. With Mobley and Allen out, he'd have to step up. Just has not happened and the shooting slump has been pretty obvious in the last few games. He hasn't been doing all that well in the original starting five, but he works very well as a spacer playing the 3 and as long as the team as a whole kept and keeps playing like they have, it (his streaky shooting) doesn't really matter.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#147 » by gflem » Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Bullstuff wrote:Lauri simply has to do better than he has lately. With Mobley and Allen out, he'd have to step up. Just has not happened and the shooting slump has been pretty obvious in the last few games. He hasn't been doing all that well in the original starting five, but he works very well as a spacer playing the 3 and as long as the team as a whole kept and keeps playing like they have, it (his streaky shooting) doesn't really matter.

I agree, but with so much chaos its is hard to define any kind of role for him. Don't forget he is being asked to play (defend) out of position at the SF to begin with, then move around from position to position during games. Now, you would think highly paid professional athletes could manage this easily but I am willing to give him some slack for now. Everyone goes through shooting slumps from time to time, his coming at a bad time doesn't help but I am hoping he can work through this.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#148 » by JonFromVA » Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:14 pm

gflem wrote:
Bullstuff wrote:Lauri simply has to do better than he has lately. With Mobley and Allen out, he'd have to step up. Just has not happened and the shooting slump has been pretty obvious in the last few games. He hasn't been doing all that well in the original starting five, but he works very well as a spacer playing the 3 and as long as the team as a whole kept and keeps playing like they have, it (his streaky shooting) doesn't really matter.

I agree, but with so much chaos its is hard to define any kind of role for him. Don't forget he is being asked to play (defend) out of position at the SF to begin with, then move around from position to position during games. Now, you would think highly paid professional athletes could manage this easily but I am willing to give him some slack for now. Everyone goes through shooting slumps from time to time, his coming at a bad time doesn't help but I am hoping he can work through this.


Ironically, the only players who could knock down their 3's .vs. the Celtics were Valentine and Pangos.

We might have won the game if any number of players were knocking down shots better.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#149 » by Tex68 » Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:57 am

I realized that the first shot of Lauri defines dramatically how his game goes. In NBA they have made studies on this and on average first shot success does not impact shooting percentage in average. But for Lauri it does - and a lot.

I checked manually his shooting % over the last 12 games (sure, a small amount of games but I hope future games will prove me to be wrong) and this is how it looks like:

If Lauri fails his first shot, his average shooting % is 31 %
If Lauri scores on his first shot, his average shooting % is 61 %
If Lauri scores on his first and second shot, shooting % is 75 %

Last game against Boston: First one failed -> 2/12

If this is the case also in future, I would advice coach to keep him shooting a lot after first shot goes in. In case it doesn't... should consider playing mainly dunks and other shots in close distance.

Not sure if he needs a mental coach to support him how to not let first shot impact that much his self confidence downwards.

Would be interested to get a longer statistics on this. Intuitively this has been the case for most of his career and thus it started to bother me and I made stats for the past games after he came back to lineup.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#150 » by PaKii94 » Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:38 am

Tex68 wrote:I realized that the first shot of Lauri defines dramatically how his game goes. In NBA they have made studies on this and on average first shot success does not impact shooting percentage in average. But for Lauri it does - and a lot.

I checked manually his shooting % over the last 12 games (sure, a small amount of games but I hope future games will prove me to be wrong) and this is how it looks like:

If Lauri fails his first shot, his average shooting % is 31 %
If Lauri scores on his first shot, his average shooting % is 61 %
If Lauri scores on his first and second shot, shooting % is 75 %

Last game against Boston: First one failed -> 2/12

If this is the case also in future, I would advice coach to keep him shooting a lot after first shot goes in. In case it doesn't... should consider playing mainly dunks and other shots in close distance.

Not sure if he needs a mental coach to support him how to not let first shot impact that much his self confidence downwards.

Would be interested to get a longer statistics on this. Intuitively this has been the case for most of his career and thus it started to bother me and I made stats for the past games after he came back to lineup.



It's definitely a mental/confidence thing with Lauri. When he believes he can hang with the big boys (makes his first shot) he seems a lot more comfortable/confident. When he misses, you can see him become timid/reserved/uncertain.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#151 » by JonFromVA » Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:52 pm

PaKii94 wrote:
Tex68 wrote:I realized that the first shot of Lauri defines dramatically how his game goes. In NBA they have made studies on this and on average first shot success does not impact shooting percentage in average. But for Lauri it does - and a lot.

I checked manually his shooting % over the last 12 games (sure, a small amount of games but I hope future games will prove me to be wrong) and this is how it looks like:

If Lauri fails his first shot, his average shooting % is 31 %
If Lauri scores on his first shot, his average shooting % is 61 %
If Lauri scores on his first and second shot, shooting % is 75 %

Last game against Boston: First one failed -> 2/12

If this is the case also in future, I would advice coach to keep him shooting a lot after first shot goes in. In case it doesn't... should consider playing mainly dunks and other shots in close distance.

Not sure if he needs a mental coach to support him how to not let first shot impact that much his self confidence downwards.

Would be interested to get a longer statistics on this. Intuitively this has been the case for most of his career and thus it started to bother me and I made stats for the past games after he came back to lineup.



It's definitely a mental/confidence thing with Lauri. When he believes he can hang with the big boys (makes his first shot) he seems a lot more comfortable/confident. When he misses, you can see him become timid/reserved/uncertain.


Heh, JBB is not a slave to new age shooting charts. Someone just has to tell Lauri he can get his shot going by working inside out, but the mid-range jumper is so archaic - Lauri may need to practice it before he unleashes it.

What else would be interesting is how he's missing ... whether his missed shots are typically long, short, or just off target.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#152 » by Tex68 » Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:49 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
Tex68 wrote:I realized that the first shot of Lauri defines dramatically how his game goes. In NBA they have made studies on this and on average first shot success does not impact shooting percentage in average. But for Lauri it does - and a lot.

I checked manually his shooting % over the last 12 games (sure, a small amount of games but I hope future games will prove me to be wrong) and this is how it looks like:

If Lauri fails his first shot, his average shooting % is 31 %
If Lauri scores on his first shot, his average shooting % is 61 %
If Lauri scores on his first and second shot, shooting % is 75 %

Last game against Boston: First one failed -> 2/12

If this is the case also in future, I would advice coach to keep him shooting a lot after first shot goes in. In case it doesn't... should consider playing mainly dunks and other shots in close distance.

Not sure if he needs a mental coach to support him how to not let first shot impact that much his self confidence downwards.

Would be interested to get a longer statistics on this. Intuitively this has been the case for most of his career and thus it started to bother me and I made stats for the past games after he came back to lineup.



It's definitely a mental/confidence thing with Lauri. When he believes he can hang with the big boys (makes his first shot) he seems a lot more comfortable/confident. When he misses, you can see him become timid/reserved/uncertain.


Heh, JBB is not a slave to new age shooting charts. Someone just has to tell Lauri he can get his shot going by working inside out, but the mid-range jumper is so archaic - Lauri may need to practice it before he unleashes it.

What else would be interesting is how he's missing ... whether his missed shots are typically long, short, or just off target.


I found this one extremely interesting:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lauri-markkanen-shot-chart-by-season
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#153 » by FranchisePlayer » Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:49 pm

Tex68 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:

It's definitely a mental/confidence thing with Lauri. When he believes he can hang with the big boys (makes his first shot) he seems a lot more comfortable/confident. When he misses, you can see him become timid/reserved/uncertain.


Heh, JBB is not a slave to new age shooting charts. Someone just has to tell Lauri he can get his shot going by working inside out, but the mid-range jumper is so archaic - Lauri may need to practice it before he unleashes it.

What else would be interesting is how he's missing ... whether his missed shots are typically long, short, or just off target.


I found this one extremely interesting:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lauri-markkanen-shot-chart-by-season


In what way?
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#154 » by Tex68 » Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:04 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
Tex68 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Heh, JBB is not a slave to new age shooting charts. Someone just has to tell Lauri he can get his shot going by working inside out, but the mid-range jumper is so archaic - Lauri may need to practice it before he unleashes it.

What else would be interesting is how he's missing ... whether his missed shots are typically long, short, or just off target.


I found this one extremely interesting:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lauri-markkanen-shot-chart-by-season


In what way?


For instance:
1. His shooting accuracy is way better when attacking from right angle
2. He should not be used to shoot from the corners based on the stats
3. He has a lot of potential to improve close to the basket
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#155 » by Tex68 » Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:07 pm

Markkanen did well in the game against Toronto. Despite of missing first shot, he ended up scoring 9/13. What was interesting is the way he focused on 2-pointers mainly. That's exactly what I was hoping for - based on the stats if he missest first long range shot he should focus on 2 pointers and that's what he did. 20 points in 22 minutes was well done.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#156 » by toooskies » Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:24 pm

Tex68 wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
Tex68 wrote:
I found this one extremely interesting:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lauri-markkanen-shot-chart-by-season


In what way?


For instance:
1. His shooting accuracy is way better when attacking from right angle
2. He should not be used to shoot from the corners based on the stats
3. He has a lot of potential to improve close to the basket

But his numbers from the corners were great last year.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#157 » by Tex68 » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:58 pm

toooskies wrote:
Tex68 wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
In what way?


For instance:
1. His shooting accuracy is way better when attacking from right angle
2. He should not be used to shoot from the corners based on the stats
3. He has a lot of potential to improve close to the basket

But his numbers from the corners were great last year.


TRUE! Missed that, it was the only year that they were exceptional
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#158 » by KuruptedCav » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:50 pm

Tex68 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
Tex68 wrote:
For instance:
1. His shooting accuracy is way better when attacking from right angle
2. He should not be used to shoot from the corners based on the stats
3. He has a lot of potential to improve close to the basket

But his numbers from the corners were great last year.


TRUE! Missed that, it was the only year that they were exceptional

What we’re seeing is his shooting coach. His shot spots clustering and his performance chases where he practices and recedes from where he doesn’t, creating this inconsistency year over year.


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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#159 » by Taikuri » Tue Jan 4, 2022 11:25 am

Tex68 wrote:I realized that the first shot of Lauri defines dramatically how his game goes. In NBA they have made studies on this and on average first shot success does not impact shooting percentage in average. But for Lauri it does - and a lot.

I checked manually his shooting % over the last 12 games (sure, a small amount of games but I hope future games will prove me to be wrong) and this is how it looks like:

If Lauri fails his first shot, his average shooting % is 31 %
If Lauri scores on his first shot, his average shooting % is 61 %
If Lauri scores on his first and second shot, shooting % is 75 %

Last game against Boston: First one failed -> 2/12

If this is the case also in future, I would advice coach to keep him shooting a lot after first shot goes in. In case it doesn't... should consider playing mainly dunks and other shots in close distance.

Not sure if he needs a mental coach to support him how to not let first shot impact that much his self confidence downwards.

Would be interested to get a longer statistics on this. Intuitively this has been the case for most of his career and thus it started to bother me and I made stats for the past games after he came back to lineup.


So if Lauri misses the first shot he can stay on the bench for the rest of the game, if he hits the first 3 then he may play monster minutes. Nah just kidding, better as suggested here for coach to tell him to do more 2's or for Lauri to realize this problem of his and work on it.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#160 » by FranchisePlayer » Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:27 pm

Screw with the shooting insights.

Did you see the game winning D on Harden that Markkanen produced? He was literally on his face, leaving Harden stagnated and thus forcing the turnover.

#TheFinnisher #developing #highend #talent
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.

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