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GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET

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GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#1 » by ducler » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:16 pm

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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#2 » by JonFromVA » Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:25 pm

The Cavs seem to play well in back to backs ... go figure.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#3 » by El Hespiritu » Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:31 pm

Suns are far better.

We are far weirder.

Unsure about physical full recovery from last game. It was a tough and exhausting one.
Being so young roster should help with that I guess.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#4 » by LesGrossman » Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:35 am

Much, much tougher opponent than everything we've seen so far.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#5 » by El Hespiritu » Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:28 am

Seems like, with equal forces, we out run them.

Let's see if we can make the 4th quarter with some energy spared.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#6 » by El Hespiritu » Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:07 am

This final of the half-time has been long for the guys.

Now they take breath and I foresee they will do a nice 3rd Q.

Still worried about how much stamina we will be capable to display at the clutch...
... provided Suns allow us to get there, 'course.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#7 » by LesGrossman » Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:12 am

Those are winnable games if not for the long runs of bone headed selfish hero ball attempts.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#8 » by El Hespiritu » Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:14 am

Well... so good for my foreseeing... they laminated us in the 3rd.
It was a harsh road trip.
We need a break.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#9 » by JonFromVA » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:55 pm

At least Wade and Windler got some run, but overshadowed by "good" Cedi. JBB used some shooting lineups. Maybe should had rested Rubio more as well, but apparently doesn't trust Pangos.

Fortunately we already have 2 wins on the road trip.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#10 » by jbk1234 » Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:28 pm

Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#11 » by JonFromVA » Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:04 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.


Didn't Collin hurt his shoulder? It might effect things albeit he's not tempering his aggression. Sometimes just have to be patient on things like shooting ... I've seen a lot of bad shooting nights around the league from good shooters.

The turnovers are coming from Collin trying to force things and I dont think thats what JBB wants except when Collin gets hot or has an obvious advantage. Not sure how he can be throttled without benching him when he gets out of control.

DG and Ricky are guilty as well but better at shifting gears.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#12 » by jbk1234 » Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:15 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.


Didn't Collin hurt his shoulder? It might effect things albeit he's not tempering his aggression. Sometimes just have to be patient on things like shooting ... I've seen a lot of bad shooting nights around the league from good shooters.

The turnovers are coming from Collin trying to force things and I dont think thats what JBB wants except when Collin gets hot or has an obvious advantage. Not sure how he can be throttled without benching him when he gets out of control.

DG and Ricky are guilty as well but better at shifting gears.


There's a few things going on: (1) He likes to show the ball way out away from his body to get the defender leaning so he can parlay that with his speed and cross the guy over. The problem is the ball isn't terribly secure out there and if you invite people to try take the cookie from the cookie jar enough times, eventually they'll get the cookie. (2) He uses his off arm to keep the defender off of him and he's less likely to get the benefit of the doubt from the officials when he's doing that. The Lakers, who were the ones who really junked the game up, complained about it to the officials constantly. (3) If the coach gives you the green light in the first or last few seconds of a possession, you shouldn't publicly broadcast that information to the league. You've made yourself even easier to defend.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#13 » by LesGrossman » Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:12 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.

He tried way too hard to be "the man" out there. You seemingly have one of those guys on every team. The offense is half way established, the ball moves around, the guys learn to know each other (and those are good turnovers), and then this guy comes along and thinks the best option for his team is him going 1 on 5, again and again. This is where a good coach steps in and gives him some minutes to reconsider.

Garland also seemed clueless most of the time. He isnt so much about himself shooting but he doesnt seem to have the skill yet to penetrate and keep control over the whole situation. His approach seems to be to get inside and then jump in the air and look around for the next best outlet.

Playing those two so big minutes is a clear indication of development over success imho.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#14 » by JonFromVA » Mon Nov 1, 2021 12:15 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.


Didn't Collin hurt his shoulder? It might effect things albeit he's not tempering his aggression. Sometimes just have to be patient on things like shooting ... I've seen a lot of bad shooting nights around the league from good shooters.

The turnovers are coming from Collin trying to force things and I dont think thats what JBB wants except when Collin gets hot or has an obvious advantage. Not sure how he can be throttled without benching him when he gets out of control.

DG and Ricky are guilty as well but better at shifting gears.


There's a few things going on: (1) He likes to show the ball way out away from his body to get the defender leaning so he can parlay that with his speed and cross the guy over. The problem is the ball isn't terribly secure out there and if you invite people to try take the cookie from the cookie jar enough times, eventually they'll get the cookie. (2) He uses his off arm to keep the defender off of him and he's less likely to get the benefit of the doubt from the officials when he's doing that. The Lakers, who were the ones really junked the game up, complained about it to the officials constantly. (3) If the coach gives you the green light in the first or last few seconds of a possession, you shouldn't publicly broadcast that information to the league. You've made yourself even easier to defend.


Good points at first, but to your last point teams have advanced scouts to sniff out tendencies ... not that I can discern an advantage. That's all on Collin being more creative when he's on the ball and off and less predictable, and having a balanced game. Driving in to the crowded paint and forcing shots can only be green lit when the alternative is a shot clock violation. Or else JBB should use Collin in spread lineups.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#15 » by JonFromVA » Mon Nov 1, 2021 12:20 am

LesGrossman wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.

He tried way too hard to be "the man" out there. You seemingly have one of those guys on every team. The offense is half way established, the ball moves around, the guys learn to know each other (and those are good turnovers), and then this guy comes along and thinks the best option for his team is him going 1 on 5, again and again. This is where a good coach steps in and gives him some minutes to reconsider.

Garland also seemed clueless most of the time. He isnt so much about himself shooting but he doesnt seem to have the skill yet to penetrate and keep control over the whole situation. His approach seems to be to get inside and then jump in the air and look around for the next best outlet.

Playing those two so big minutes is a clear indication of development over success imho.


The back to back is a reality but give some credit to the Sun's D. Rubio had his struggles too.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#16 » by LesGrossman » Mon Nov 1, 2021 7:12 am

JonFromVA wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.

He tried way too hard to be "the man" out there. You seemingly have one of those guys on every team. The offense is half way established, the ball moves around, the guys learn to know each other (and those are good turnovers), and then this guy comes along and thinks the best option for his team is him going 1 on 5, again and again. This is where a good coach steps in and gives him some minutes to reconsider.

Garland also seemed clueless most of the time. He isnt so much about himself shooting but he doesnt seem to have the skill yet to penetrate and keep control over the whole situation. His approach seems to be to get inside and then jump in the air and look around for the next best outlet.

Playing those two so big minutes is a clear indication of development over success imho.


The back to back is a reality but give some credit to the Sun's D. Rubio had his struggles too.

Absolutely, he has some inexplicable turnovers every game. Its just that we know this is a sync process that happened with every new team when they started off fresh, and i'm optimistic it'll eventually be gone.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#17 » by jbk1234 » Mon Nov 1, 2021 2:39 pm

LesGrossman wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.

He tried way too hard to be "the man" out there. You seemingly have one of those guys on every team. The offense is half way established, the ball moves around, the guys learn to know each other (and those are good turnovers), and then this guy comes along and thinks the best option for his team is him going 1 on 5, again and again. This is where a good coach steps in and gives him some minutes to reconsider.

Garland also seemed clueless most of the time. He isnt so much about himself shooting but he doesnt seem to have the skill yet to penetrate and keep control over the whole situation. His approach seems to be to get inside and then jump in the air and look around for the next best outlet.

Playing those two so big minutes is a clear indication of development over success imho.


It's still a pretty small sample size, but the on/off numbers tell a different story re: Garland and his impact on the offense.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: GT #7, Cavaliers @ Suns, 30 October 2021, 10:00 PM ET 

Post#18 » by JonFromVA » Mon Nov 1, 2021 6:02 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Six turnovers in 18 minutes is no bueno. Sexton has to tighten up his handle against more aggressive defenses and he really NEEDS to shoot more from outside at this point. You don't have to like how physically defenders are allowed to play against offensive players this season, but you have to adapt. He's got to shoot more from outside this year.

He tried way too hard to be "the man" out there. You seemingly have one of those guys on every team. The offense is half way established, the ball moves around, the guys learn to know each other (and those are good turnovers), and then this guy comes along and thinks the best option for his team is him going 1 on 5, again and again. This is where a good coach steps in and gives him some minutes to reconsider.

Garland also seemed clueless most of the time. He isnt so much about himself shooting but he doesnt seem to have the skill yet to penetrate and keep control over the whole situation. His approach seems to be to get inside and then jump in the air and look around for the next best outlet.

Playing those two so big minutes is a clear indication of development over success imho.


It's still a pretty small sample size, but the on/off numbers tell a different story re: Garland and his impact on the offense.


Yep, even if we only look at the games Garland has played in.

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