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GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET

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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#21 » by Jorgeglez7 » Sat Nov 6, 2021 12:17 pm

6-4 after the ten first games. Against Grizzlies, Hornets X2, Nuggets, Clippers, Lakers, Hawks, Suns, Blazers and a 5 games winning streak at home Raptors. Honestly, playing fine. We have some issues at the offensive end but we are playing really well defensively which is key in a Young team. I just Hope they don't pull the plug if we continue winning like this.
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#22 » by gflem » Sat Nov 6, 2021 2:58 pm

Jorgeglez7 wrote:6-4 after the ten first games. Against Grizzlies, Hornets X2, Nuggets, Clippers, Lakers, Hawks, Suns, Blazers and a 5 games winning streak at home Raptors. Honestly, playing fine. We have some issues at the offensive end but we are playing really well defensively which is key in a Young team. I just Hope they don't pull the plug if we continue winning like this.

I agree, something like a 3-7 record is more what I think a lot of people (myself included) would have guessed. The games have been close and fun to watch for the most part. They got away with one last night though, that foul they called for Sexton was definitely a travel and turned out to be the difference in the game.
One thing that bothers me is the freaking inbounds plays, how can this team not be able to inbound the ball? I mean can someone force JB to sit down with Mike Fratello for a few hours and get some tutoring on this? It's ridiculous that an NBA team has so much trouble getting the ball in. I don't know how many of you remember (or are old enough) but Fratello was the best Cavs coach I have seen when it comes to inbounds plays leading to baskets. I know, the players matter in being able run the plays, but that is the one thing right now that I have the biggest issue with JB on.
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#23 » by jbk1234 » Sat Nov 6, 2021 3:10 pm

gflem wrote:
Jorgeglez7 wrote:6-4 after the ten first games. Against Grizzlies, Hornets X2, Nuggets, Clippers, Lakers, Hawks, Suns, Blazers and a 5 games winning streak at home Raptors. Honestly, playing fine. We have some issues at the offensive end but we are playing really well defensively which is key in a Young team. I just Hope they don't pull the plug if we continue winning like this.

I agree, something like a 3-7 record is more what I think a lot of people (myself included) would have guessed. The games have been close and fun to watch for the most part. They got away with one last night though, that foul they called for Sexton was definitely a travel and turned out to be the difference in the game.
One thing that bothers me is the freaking inbounds plays, how can this team not be able to inbound the ball? I mean can someone force JB to sit down with Mike Fratello for a few hours and get some tutoring on this? It's ridiculous that an NBA team has so much trouble getting the ball in. I don't know how many of you remember (or are old enough) but Fratello was the best Cavs coach I have seen when it comes to inbounds plays leading to baskets. I know, the players matter in being able run the plays, but that is the one thing right now that I have the biggest issue with JB on.


They actually called a jump ball on the Sexton turnover though it should've been a travel. The Raptors reach in too much, even when they don't need to. They're a steal happy team and there are times when it negatively impacts their defense.

In terms of inbounds plays, the only thing I'm seeing is that Garland and/or Sexton are being held prior to the entry pass and those guys need to do a better job of letting the officials know it. I'm not seeing defenders beat our offensive players to their spots. We have undersized guards and getting them the ball is more difficult because the window is narrower. There were a couple of times when the first pass went to a big with an immediate second pass to the guard.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#24 » by gflem » Sat Nov 6, 2021 3:30 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
gflem wrote:
Jorgeglez7 wrote:6-4 after the ten first games. Against Grizzlies, Hornets X2, Nuggets, Clippers, Lakers, Hawks, Suns, Blazers and a 5 games winning streak at home Raptors. Honestly, playing fine. We have some issues at the offensive end but we are playing really well defensively which is key in a Young team. I just Hope they don't pull the plug if we continue winning like this.

I agree, something like a 3-7 record is more what I think a lot of people (myself included) would have guessed. The games have been close and fun to watch for the most part. They got away with one last night though, that foul they called for Sexton was definitely a travel and turned out to be the difference in the game.
One thing that bothers me is the freaking inbounds plays, how can this team not be able to inbound the ball? I mean can someone force JB to sit down with Mike Fratello for a few hours and get some tutoring on this? It's ridiculous that an NBA team has so much trouble getting the ball in. I don't know how many of you remember (or are old enough) but Fratello was the best Cavs coach I have seen when it comes to inbounds plays leading to baskets. I know, the players matter in being able run the plays, but that is the one thing right now that I have the biggest issue with JB on.


They actually called a jump ball on the Sexton turnover though it should've been a travel. The Raptors reach in too much, even when they don't need to. They're a steal happy team and there are times when it negatively impacts their defense.

In terms of inbounds plays, the only thing I'm seeing is that Garland and/or Sexton are being held prior to the entry pass and those guys need to do a better job of letting the officials know it. I'm not seeing defenders beat our offensive players to their spots. We have undersized guards and getting them the ball is more difficult because the window is narrower. There were a couple of times when the first pass went to a big with an immediate second pass to the guard.

You're right, it was a jump ball. It's not just the guards though, there is a lot of hesitation from everyone inbounding the ball. When the guards are being held, isn't it their responsibility to get free? Maybe take a foul early in the game throwing their hands off you or pushing off to get free to accentuate the fact that you are being held. Maybe JB getting on the refs about it?
Inregard to Fratello's inbound plays, he had Terell Brandon as the offensive focus of those teams and I think he was shorter than Garland and Sexton. I just don't see any excuse for the repeated difficulties with getting the ball in. On the plus side at least we are debating something like this 10 games in, right?
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#25 » by jbk1234 » Sat Nov 6, 2021 3:37 pm

gflem wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
gflem wrote:I agree, something like a 3-7 record is more what I think a lot of people (myself included) would have guessed. The games have been close and fun to watch for the most part. They got away with one last night though, that foul they called for Sexton was definitely a travel and turned out to be the difference in the game.
One thing that bothers me is the freaking inbounds plays, how can this team not be able to inbound the ball? I mean can someone force JB to sit down with Mike Fratello for a few hours and get some tutoring on this? It's ridiculous that an NBA team has so much trouble getting the ball in. I don't know how many of you remember (or are old enough) but Fratello was the best Cavs coach I have seen when it comes to inbounds plays leading to baskets. I know, the players matter in being able run the plays, but that is the one thing right now that I have the biggest issue with JB on.


They actually called a jump ball on the Sexton turnover though it should've been a travel. The Raptors reach in too much, even when they don't need to. They're a steal happy team and there are times when it negatively impacts their defense.

In terms of inbounds plays, the only thing I'm seeing is that Garland and/or Sexton are being held prior to the entry pass and those guys need to do a better job of letting the officials know it. I'm not seeing defenders beat our offensive players to their spots. We have undersized guards and getting them the ball is more difficult because the window is narrower. There were a couple of times when the first pass went to a big with an immediate second pass to the guard.

You're right, it was a jump ball. It's not just the guards though, there is a lot of hesitation from everyone inbounding the ball. When the guards are being held, isn't it their responsibility to get free? Maybe take a foul early in the game throwing their hands off you or pushing off to get free to accentuate the fact that you are being held. Maybe JB getting on the refs about it?
Inregard to Fratello's inbound plays, he had Terell Brandon as the offensive focus of those teams and I think he was shorter than Garland and Sexton. I just don't see any excuse for the repeated difficulties with getting the ball in. On the plus side at least we are debating something like this 10 games in, right?


On the plus side, at least we're debating something like this after a W. We have a young roster. Opposing teams are going to test us and the officials. We're not getting slept on, which happened a little at the beginning of last season and once opposing teams started game planning for us, it all fell apart. We're also not shooting at unsustainably high rates like the beginning of last season (Cedi is the only guy I see returning to whatever mean he has). We're not the embodiment of health with Okoro out with an injury and two guys out due to Covid protocols. I'm trying to temper my expectations, but there's reasons to be optimistic.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#26 » by JonFromVA » Sat Nov 6, 2021 3:48 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
gflem wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
They actually called a jump ball on the Sexton turnover though it should've been a travel. The Raptors reach in too much, even when they don't need to. They're a steal happy team and there are times when it negatively impacts their defense.

In terms of inbounds plays, the only thing I'm seeing is that Garland and/or Sexton are being held prior to the entry pass and those guys need to do a better job of letting the officials know it. I'm not seeing defenders beat our offensive players to their spots. We have undersized guards and getting them the ball is more difficult because the window is narrower. There were a couple of times when the first pass went to a big with an immediate second pass to the guard.

You're right, it was a jump ball. It's not just the guards though, there is a lot of hesitation from everyone inbounding the ball. When the guards are being held, isn't it their responsibility to get free? Maybe take a foul early in the game throwing their hands off you or pushing off to get free to accentuate the fact that you are being held. Maybe JB getting on the refs about it?
Inregard to Fratello's inbound plays, he had Terell Brandon as the offensive focus of those teams and I think he was shorter than Garland and Sexton. I just don't see any excuse for the repeated difficulties with getting the ball in. On the plus side at least we are debating something like this 10 games in, right?


On the plus side, at least we're debating something like this after a W. We have a young roster. Opposing teams are going to test us and the officials. We're not getting slept on, which happened a little at the beginning of last season and once opposing teams started game planning for us, it all fell apart. We're also not shooting at unsustainably high rates like the beginning of last season (Cedi is the only guy I see returning to whatever mean he has). We're not the embodiment of health with Okoro out with an injury and two guys out due to Covid protocols. I'm trying to temper my expectations, but there's reasons to be optimistic.


It's more fun without expectations, but given we've only played 3 home games ... I don't think it would have surprised anyone if we were sitting at 3-7 right now instead of 6-4.
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#27 » by toooskies » Sat Nov 6, 2021 6:43 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
gflem wrote:You're right, it was a jump ball. It's not just the guards though, there is a lot of hesitation from everyone inbounding the ball. When the guards are being held, isn't it their responsibility to get free? Maybe take a foul early in the game throwing their hands off you or pushing off to get free to accentuate the fact that you are being held. Maybe JB getting on the refs about it?
Inregard to Fratello's inbound plays, he had Terell Brandon as the offensive focus of those teams and I think he was shorter than Garland and Sexton. I just don't see any excuse for the repeated difficulties with getting the ball in. On the plus side at least we are debating something like this 10 games in, right?


On the plus side, at least we're debating something like this after a W. We have a young roster. Opposing teams are going to test us and the officials. We're not getting slept on, which happened a little at the beginning of last season and once opposing teams started game planning for us, it all fell apart. We're also not shooting at unsustainably high rates like the beginning of last season (Cedi is the only guy I see returning to whatever mean he has). We're not the embodiment of health with Okoro out with an injury and two guys out due to Covid protocols. I'm trying to temper my expectations, but there's reasons to be optimistic.


It's more fun without expectations, but given we've only played 3 home games ... I don't think it would have surprised anyone if we were sitting at 3-7 right now instead of 6-4.

We haven't been favored in a game this year, I'm not sure a 1-9 or 0-10 start would've surprised anybody either.
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#28 » by LesGrossman » Sat Nov 6, 2021 7:45 pm

There are almost 90 pages on the game thread of the raptors lol. Most posts are about the cavs being scrubs, and them being robbed by the refs. I was quite suprised by the takes to be honest. I didnt feel there was much of an advantage through officiating for either team. Surely thought Rubio got called for a foul when he was actually hooked, and didnt get a call when he was pushed off the floor but that is what fandom does to one's perception...
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#29 » by gflem » Sat Nov 6, 2021 9:02 pm

LesGrossman wrote:There are almost 90 pages on the game thread of the raptors lol. Most posts are about the cavs being scrubs, and them being robbed by the refs. I was quite suprised by the takes to be honest. I didnt feel there was much of an advantage through officiating for either team. Surely thought Rubio got called for a foul when he was actually hooked, and didnt get a call when he was pushed off the floor but that is what fandom does to one's perception...

I think a couple of calls in critical times went the Cavs way, but a few of the Raps push of excessively when they drive and there were no fouls called so it was close to even imo. However, the Cavs are seen as a joke team that only can win when Lebron is here. Nothing can be done about that so I don't even bother to comment. Hopefully we are turning the corner and can leave that narrative behind with a solid season.
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#30 » by JonFromVA » Sat Nov 6, 2021 9:02 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
On the plus side, at least we're debating something like this after a W. We have a young roster. Opposing teams are going to test us and the officials. We're not getting slept on, which happened a little at the beginning of last season and once opposing teams started game planning for us, it all fell apart. We're also not shooting at unsustainably high rates like the beginning of last season (Cedi is the only guy I see returning to whatever mean he has). We're not the embodiment of health with Okoro out with an injury and two guys out due to Covid protocols. I'm trying to temper my expectations, but there's reasons to be optimistic.


It's more fun without expectations, but given we've only played 3 home games ... I don't think it would have surprised anyone if we were sitting at 3-7 right now instead of 6-4.

We haven't been favored in a game this year, I'm not sure a 1-9 or 0-10 start would've surprised anybody either.


The difference is the fire/trade-everybody wagon would be fully fueled and rolling. Gotta cut JBB some slack I suppose trying to squeak out these wins. A lot of jobs and futures are at stake to show improvement.
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#31 » by JonFromVA » Sat Nov 6, 2021 9:06 pm

LesGrossman wrote:There are almost 90 pages on the game thread of the raptors lol. Most posts are about the cavs being scrubs, and them being robbed by the refs. I was quite suprised by the takes to be honest. I didnt feel there was much of an advantage through officiating for either team. Surely thought Rubio got called for a foul when he was actually hooked, and didnt get a call when he was pushed off the floor but that is what fandom does to one's perception...


Fan bases become spoiled quickly. Were we that obnoxious when the Cavs were dominating the East for like 9 of the past 16 years or so?
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Re: GT #10, Cavaliers @ Raptors, 5 November 2021, 7:30 PM ET 

Post#32 » by jbk1234 » Sun Nov 7, 2021 11:33 am

LesGrossman wrote:There are almost 90 pages on the game thread of the raptors lol. Most posts are about the cavs being scrubs, and them being robbed by the refs. I was quite suprised by the takes to be honest. I didnt feel there was much of an advantage through officiating for either team. Surely thought Rubio got called for a foul when he was actually hooked, and didnt get a call when he was pushed off the floor but that is what fandom does to one's perception...


Raptors fans are in for a rude awakening when that team heads out West. They operate under the assumption that there should be an equal number of fouls called regardless off what's happening on the court and that's just not how it works.

The Raptors reach in and grab the offensive player all the time (don't get me started on their moving screens). They foul when they don't need to foul. It's pretty obvious that they've been coached to do so and that Nurse would rather argue with the officials than have them dial it back. It's dumb. Barnes could've had a clean block on Garland in the paint on that last shot but his teammates reached in and tripped the shooter before Barnes had the opportunity. A couple of guys off their bench play completely out of control and there just isn't an officiating crew that's going to let them play that way.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

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