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GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET

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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#21 » by jbk1234 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:12 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Yeah, we need more points out of either the SG or SF position. Lauri coming back should help. Even Love getting us additional spacing off the bench should help. But right now, I don't trust Cedi, Windler, and Wade to consistently hit their shots.

It depends on what you mean by "consistently", but Cedi and Windler are both well over 40% on the year. I'm not sure if you just want to see it over a longer period of time or if you're overreacting to a 2-7 night between them.

I don't expect any one player to take on Collin's scoring load, though, unless we make a deal.


We're maybe 10 points short of what we would have expected if Collin was healthy and Lauri and Love could make up that difference, or otoh, we can hope to get a little more out of Wade, Windler, Okoro, and Stevens than 14 pts. I mean Stevens was the high scorer of that group with 6pts? Just 5 points in total from our starting SG and SF?

That's pathetic.


And this was my big issue with not having a legitimate backup 2. We don't need 24 points out of that position, especially with Okoro locking up a guy like Beal. If you can consistently get 12-14 points out of the SG position with this roster, you're good.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#22 » by toooskies » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:23 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Yeah, we need more points out of either the SG or SF position. Lauri coming back should help. Even Love getting us additional spacing off the bench should help. But right now, I don't trust Cedi, Windler, and Wade to consistently hit their shots.

It depends on what you mean by "consistently", but Cedi and Windler are both well over 40% on the year. I'm not sure if you just want to see it over a longer period of time or if you're overreacting to a 2-7 night between them.

I don't expect any one player to take on Collin's scoring load, though, unless we make a deal.


We're maybe 10 points short of what we would have expected if Collin was healthy and Lauri and Love could make up that difference, or otoh, we can hope to get a little more out of Wade, Windler, Okoro, and Stevens than 14 pts. I mean Stevens was the high scorer of that group with 6pts? Just 5 points in total from our starting SG and SF?

That's pathetic.

For a starting SG and SF generically? Sure.

But in the context of Okoro after an injury and a replacement "SF" who is really a PF but is playing out-of-position for the sake of continuity when Markkanen gets back and doesn't have much offensive game in the first place...

Last year's team would've lost that game by 20, so I'm not going to get worked up about a close loss to good team.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#23 » by JonFromVA » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:03 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:It depends on what you mean by "consistently", but Cedi and Windler are both well over 40% on the year. I'm not sure if you just want to see it over a longer period of time or if you're overreacting to a 2-7 night between them.

I don't expect any one player to take on Collin's scoring load, though, unless we make a deal.


We're maybe 10 points short of what we would have expected if Collin was healthy and Lauri and Love could make up that difference, or otoh, we can hope to get a little more out of Wade, Windler, Okoro, and Stevens than 14 pts. I mean Stevens was the high scorer of that group with 6pts? Just 5 points in total from our starting SG and SF?

That's pathetic.

For a starting SG and SF generically? Sure.

But in the context of Okoro after an injury and a replacement "SF" who is really a PF but is playing out-of-position for the sake of continuity when Markkanen gets back and doesn't have much offensive game in the first place...

Last year's team would've lost that game by 20, so I'm not going to get worked up about a close loss to good team.


lol, I'm not upset about it, it's a long season. We just need to do better - one way or another.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#24 » by yoyoboy » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:48 pm

Inexcusable loss. Losing is one thing. But we threw away a win we had in the bag. Up 4 with 30 seconds left, you have to win that game.

I’ve basically given up on Okoro btw. Right now he’s really not too different from Lamar Stevens. Just brutal on the offensive end and he’s just so far away from ever developing the league average shooting or starting guard-level handles he needs. Because while he’s a solid defender, it’s not like he’s switchable or wreaking havoc on a team level. He’s essentially a 1-on-1 defensive specialist who you can put on smaller perimeter players, and he’s subpar at virtually everything else on the court.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#25 » by jbk1234 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:59 pm

yoyoboy wrote:Inexcusable loss. Losing is one thing. But we threw away a win we had in the bag. Up 4 with 30 seconds left, you have to win that game.

I’ve basically given up on Okoro btw. Right now he’s really not too different from Lamar Stevens. Just brutal on the offensive end and he’s just so far away from ever developing the league average shooting or starting guard-level handles he needs. Because while he’s a solid defender, it’s not like he’s switchable or wreaking havoc on a team level. He’s essentially a 1-on-1 defensive specialist who you can put on smaller perimeter players, and he’s subpar at virtually everything else on the court.


Eh, Lamar would've fouled in a half if he was assigned to Beal. Beal would've gotten to the line a bunch and eventually gone off. Okoro's defense is next level good at the 2.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#26 » by yoyoboy » Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:21 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:Inexcusable loss. Losing is one thing. But we threw away a win we had in the bag. Up 4 with 30 seconds left, you have to win that game.

I’ve basically given up on Okoro btw. Right now he’s really not too different from Lamar Stevens. Just brutal on the offensive end and he’s just so far away from ever developing the league average shooting or starting guard-level handles he needs. Because while he’s a solid defender, it’s not like he’s switchable or wreaking havoc on a team level. He’s essentially a 1-on-1 defensive specialist who you can put on smaller perimeter players, and he’s subpar at virtually everything else on the court.


Eh, Lamar would've fouled in a half if he was assigned to Beal. Beal would've gotten to the line a bunch and eventually gone off. Okoro's defense is next level good at the 2.

I don’t think it is though. You become a next-level defender by having great impact at the team level. I don’t see that from Okoro. Do you? There’s a reason Avery Bradley never posted great advanced defensive metrics despite being able to “shut down” his individual assignment assuming they weren’t too big. When you’re not switchable, when you’re not getting in the passing lanes, when your help defense isn’t anything to write home about, and when you’re not an especially good defensive rebounder, your impact on that end is very limited.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#27 » by gflem » Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:26 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:Inexcusable loss. Losing is one thing. But we threw away a win we had in the bag. Up 4 with 30 seconds left, you have to win that game.

I’ve basically given up on Okoro btw. Right now he’s really not too different from Lamar Stevens. Just brutal on the offensive end and he’s just so far away from ever developing the league average shooting or starting guard-level handles he needs. Because while he’s a solid defender, it’s not like he’s switchable or wreaking havoc on a team level. He’s essentially a 1-on-1 defensive specialist who you can put on smaller perimeter players, and he’s subpar at virtually everything else on the court.


Eh, Lamar would've fouled in a half if he was assigned to Beal. Beal would've gotten to the line a bunch and eventually gone off. Okoro's defense is next level good at the 2.

Lets not forget that Okoro was assigned to the other teams best wing every game last year. As a rookie. Usually at the 3 where, regardless of what anyone says, he was usually physically smaller than who he was guarding. His offensive development was largely ignored last season, on purpose. Last night he was not overmatched physically and made life miserable for Beal when he was on him, coming off an injury. Yes his offense needs work and if you want to give up on him that's fine but lets not forget that for all the same reasons that people have supported Sexton there should be the same leeway given Okoro in year two.
Btw, we really did miss Sexton's ability to get a bucket there at the end. Didn't miss his usual turnovers but in all if he was there at the end I think the outcome would have been different.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#28 » by LesGrossman » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:19 pm

I hope everyone learns from this loss. All of the cavs - team, staff, management, fans - arent used to winning but they have something special going right now if they can keep it together, continue to stay humble and play as a team vs. individual stats. Things should get better with Love and Lauri back.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#29 » by JonFromVA » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:05 pm

LesGrossman wrote:I hope everyone learns from this loss. All of the cavs - team, staff, management, fans - arent used to winning but they have something special going right now if they can keep it together, continue to stay humble and play as a team vs. individual stats. Things should get better with Love and Lauri back.


I was amazed they'd been doing such a good job winning close games. Young teams usually fight hard, make things interesting, then find a way to lose the game ... not win it.

If Kuzma missed that 3pter, or Garland knocked down his, we're much happier campers.

Isaac deserves more than one game back from injury before closing the book on him, but it would be cool if his defensive impact was more profound. He's still super young, much younger than Stevens.
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Re: GT #12 Wizards @ Cavaliers, 10 November 2021, 7:00 PM ET 

Post#30 » by Harper4Ferry? » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:19 am

Okoro is looking like a Aldi version of Andre Roberson at this point. He’s not long enough to have such a bad jumper. I suppose he will be stronger and could be a PJ Tucker type but that jumper just sucks so bad.

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