ImageImageImage

GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET

Moderator: jbk1234

jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 44,707
And1: 25,709
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#21 » by jbk1234 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:43 am

We finally started shoving back in the second half. It matters.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Harper4Ferry?
Starter
Posts: 2,174
And1: 64
Joined: Jun 29, 2002

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#22 » by Harper4Ferry? » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:45 am

We won this? Not a good shooting night for Isaac Brickoro
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 44,707
And1: 25,709
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#23 » by jbk1234 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:47 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:We won this? Not a good shooting night for Isaac Brickoro


He's a defensive specialist until further notice, but fans underrate his defense.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
User avatar
yoyoboy
RealGM
Posts: 13,386
And1: 16,303
Joined: Jan 29, 2015
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#24 » by yoyoboy » Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:38 am

Windler should start in place of Okoro going forward.
Jorgeglez7
Sophomore
Posts: 102
And1: 86
Joined: Oct 24, 2019
 

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#25 » by Jorgeglez7 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:34 am

I'm still fking shaking. What I liked the most is how united the team is. How they fight together even as gassed as they were. How they followed and never gave up until the end, and how they celebrated when they got the win. I'm really liking this team. I hope they don't break it middle of the season. It feels like a family.
User avatar
yoyoboy
RealGM
Posts: 13,386
And1: 16,303
Joined: Jan 29, 2015
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#26 » by yoyoboy » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:50 pm

Jorgeglez7 wrote:I'm still fking shaking. What I liked the most is how united the team is. How they fight together even as gassed as they were. How they followed and never gave up until the end, and how they celebrated when they got the win. I'm really liking this team. I hope they don't break it middle of the season. It feels like a family.

Garland and Mobley being so close off the court is awesome. And the team on the whole seems to just really like each other. That goes a long way for on-court chemistry.
User avatar
yoyoboy
RealGM
Posts: 13,386
And1: 16,303
Joined: Jan 29, 2015
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#27 » by yoyoboy » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:52 pm

Also Cedi does deserve a ton of praise for this game. He was a huge reason for the comeback. The dude was great defensively especially in the passing lanes creating transition buckets.
User avatar
SaiCLE
Rookie
Posts: 1,090
And1: 211
Joined: Jun 29, 2012
   

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#28 » by SaiCLE » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:56 pm

Been so busy but I just have to post. I’m trying so hard to temper expectations but Mobley being a young star and Garland improving is so damn amazing. Watching teams double team Mobley and that still doesn’t work since he’s so skilled is awesome.

Okoro not being able to score is a huge issue. The Celtics were able to effectively game plan early due to us playing 4 v 5. Coach sat him for the rest of the game and we won. It makes sense to start Okoro if Lauri is starting at the 3 for spacing purposes.

It’s funny people still believe Mobley is just a “center” he even came out and stated that he sees himself as a Power Forward and felt more comfortable as one. He also plays very well as a small ball C with shooters

Let’s beat them again on Monday. Hopefully we get Love and Lauri back by then.
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 8,714
And1: 2,591
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#29 » by JonFromVA » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:55 pm

SaiCLE wrote:Been so busy but I just have to post. I’m trying so hard to temper expectations but Mobley being a young star and Garland improving is so damn amazing. Watching teams double team Mobley and that still doesn’t work since he’s so skilled is awesome.

Okoro not being able to score is a huge issue. The Celtics were able to effectively game plan early due to us playing 4 v 5. Coach sat him for the rest of the game and we won. It makes sense to start Okoro if Lauri is starting at the 3 for spacing purposes.

It’s funny people still believe Mobley is just a “center” he even came out and stated that he sees himself as a Power Forward and felt more comfortable as one. He also plays very well as a small ball C with shooters

Let’s beat them again on Monday. Hopefully we get Love and Lauri back by then.


Absolutely ... Mobley is not a C, he's a 7ft blank slate that's most comfortable at PF at the moment and can go play C or SF at times and defend 1 to 4 and a lot of 5's.

The list of 7footers with a lot more strength, bulk, weight than Evan that insisted on playing PF throughout their career because they didn't want to have to bang in the paint that much or have their game limited on offense is pretty extensive.

The interesting question for the Cavs is what's the right way to build around him? Someone recently suggested the obvious thing was to play Evan at C and surround him with switchable shooters. Of course it may be years before he's ready to play C full time, but our poor man's version of that certainly did pretty well against the Celtics as Evan-Dylan-Cedi-Denzel-Rubio were +16.

It's sobering to think where we might be if we didn't have Ricky and we were still relying on Delly, Dotson, Ferrell, Thomas, Cook, etc, for backup PG minutes. And what a relief for Garland who tried to carry the team when they came out sluggish, but it didn't come down to whether he could go off for 50pts. JBB found a lineup that brought energy and defense and Evan and Cedi got involved.
User avatar
SaiCLE
Rookie
Posts: 1,090
And1: 211
Joined: Jun 29, 2012
   

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#30 » by SaiCLE » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:04 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
SaiCLE wrote:Been so busy but I just have to post. I’m trying so hard to temper expectations but Mobley being a young star and Garland improving is so damn amazing. Watching teams double team Mobley and that still doesn’t work since he’s so skilled is awesome.

Okoro not being able to score is a huge issue. The Celtics were able to effectively game plan early due to us playing 4 v 5. Coach sat him for the rest of the game and we won. It makes sense to start Okoro if Lauri is starting at the 3 for spacing purposes.

It’s funny people still believe Mobley is just a “center” he even came out and stated that he sees himself as a Power Forward and felt more comfortable as one. He also plays very well as a small ball C with shooters

Let’s beat them again on Monday. Hopefully we get Love and Lauri back by then.


Absolutely ... Mobley is not a C, he's a 7ft blank slate that's most comfortable at PF at the moment and can go play C or SF at times and defend 1 to 4 and a lot of 5's.

The list of 7footers with a lot more strength, bulk, weight than Evan that insisted on playing PF throughout their career because they didn't want to have to bang in the paint that much or have their game limited on offense is pretty extensive.

The interesting question for the Cavs is what's the right way to build around him? Someone recently suggested the obvious thing was to play Evan at C and surround him with switchable shooters. Of course it may be years before he's ready to play C full time, but our poor man's version of that certainly did pretty well against the Celtics as Evan-Dylan-Cedi-Denzel-Rubio were +16.

It's sobering to think where we might be if we didn't have Ricky and we were still relying on Delly, Dotson, Ferrell, Thomas, Cook, etc, for backup PG minutes. And what a relief for Garland who tried to carry the team when they came out sluggish, but it didn't come down to whether he could go off for 50pts. JBB found a lineup that brought energy and defense and Evan and Cedi got involved.

Absolutely I do wonder what type of team to build around him. In your opinion who would you trade for to pair with Mobley & Garland?

Also I love how Garland and Mobley are basically best friends this fast.
toooskies
Senior
Posts: 679
And1: 255
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#31 » by toooskies » Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:33 pm

As promising as our start is, we've had a lot of close games and ended up on the winning side of a lot of them. We're a handful of possessions away from being 5-9 rather than 9-5.
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 8,714
And1: 2,591
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#32 » by JonFromVA » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:06 pm

SaiCLE wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
SaiCLE wrote:Been so busy but I just have to post. I’m trying so hard to temper expectations but Mobley being a young star and Garland improving is so damn amazing. Watching teams double team Mobley and that still doesn’t work since he’s so skilled is awesome.

Okoro not being able to score is a huge issue. The Celtics were able to effectively game plan early due to us playing 4 v 5. Coach sat him for the rest of the game and we won. It makes sense to start Okoro if Lauri is starting at the 3 for spacing purposes.

It’s funny people still believe Mobley is just a “center” he even came out and stated that he sees himself as a Power Forward and felt more comfortable as one. He also plays very well as a small ball C with shooters

Let’s beat them again on Monday. Hopefully we get Love and Lauri back by then.


Absolutely ... Mobley is not a C, he's a 7ft blank slate that's most comfortable at PF at the moment and can go play C or SF at times and defend 1 to 4 and a lot of 5's.

The list of 7footers with a lot more strength, bulk, weight than Evan that insisted on playing PF throughout their career because they didn't want to have to bang in the paint that much or have their game limited on offense is pretty extensive.

The interesting question for the Cavs is what's the right way to build around him? Someone recently suggested the obvious thing was to play Evan at C and surround him with switchable shooters. Of course it may be years before he's ready to play C full time, but our poor man's version of that certainly did pretty well against the Celtics as Evan-Dylan-Cedi-Denzel-Rubio were +16.

It's sobering to think where we might be if we didn't have Ricky and we were still relying on Delly, Dotson, Ferrell, Thomas, Cook, etc, for backup PG minutes. And what a relief for Garland who tried to carry the team when they came out sluggish, but it didn't come down to whether he could go off for 50pts. JBB found a lineup that brought energy and defense and Evan and Cedi got involved.

Absolutely I do wonder what type of team to build around him. In your opinion who would you trade for to pair with Mobley & Garland?

Also I love how Garland and Mobley are basically best friends this fast.


I'd spend a lot of time studying the Spurs and how they brought in both young players and veterans to keep winning around Timmy. When they didn't have an All-Star SF they had an All-Star SF stopper in Bruce Bowen. They used their draft picks wisely to add talent like Manu and Tony and others like George Hill. Snagged guys lik Danny Green and Boris Diaw off the scrap heap.

When they identified the SF they wanted they didn't hesitate to trade George Hill to draft Kawhi, and then took their sweet time developing him while in the short term using him to fill the Bowen role.

So, ideally we're talking some plans to keep the talent up on a year to year basis, and then other plans stretching out 5 years to develop players to bring the team to an even higher level and sustain losses.

What we shouldn't be doing is looking for the "magic bullet", but alas ... Dan Gilbert still owns the team.
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 8,714
And1: 2,591
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#33 » by JonFromVA » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:19 pm

toooskies wrote:As promising as our start is, we've had a lot of close games and ended up on the winning side of a lot of them. We're a handful of possessions away from being 5-9 rather than 9-5.


Which actually encourages me quite a bit, because one of the biggest differences between good teams and bad teams is good teams find ways to win and bad teams find ways to lose. The Celtics finished that game like they were the former lottery team.

otoh, a lot of that moxie is Ricky, and for all the Celtic's bluster, it's not like any of them have ever won anything important. A true PG that understands how to run a team is an amazing thing. There's simply a wide gap in that area between Ricky and Dennis/Marcus. 24 year old Payton Pritchard was once an NCAA player of the year and a Bob Cousy award winner, but he didn't look ready to compete with Garland or Rubio.
FranchisePlayer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,351
And1: 461
Joined: Oct 25, 2019
 

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#34 » by FranchisePlayer » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:24 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:We won this? Not a good shooting night for Isaac Brickoro


He's a defensive specialist until further notice, but fans underrate his defense.


I think that's a poor excuse. If he decides to take 7 shots, he needs to bury at least 2 of those.

0 out of 7 is unacceptable even for a defensive specialist (whatever that means in the context of evaluating his shooting).
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 8,714
And1: 2,591
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#35 » by JonFromVA » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:39 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:We won this? Not a good shooting night for Isaac Brickoro


He's a defensive specialist until further notice, but fans underrate his defense.


I think that's a poor excuse. If he decides to take 7 shots, he needs to bury at least 2 of those.

0 out of 7 is unacceptable even for a defensive specialist (whatever that means in the context of evaluating his shooting).


I assume the excuse is the Cavs are trying to get him back in the swing of things coming off his injury, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing JBB give Windler a longer look, unless he's on a minutes restriction we've never heard about.

Dylan hasn't had a negative +/- since his first two games.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 44,707
And1: 25,709
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#36 » by jbk1234 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:45 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:We won this? Not a good shooting night for Isaac Brickoro


He's a defensive specialist until further notice, but fans underrate his defense.


I think that's a poor excuse. If he decides to take 7 shots, he needs to bury at least 2 of those.

0 out of 7 is unacceptable even for a defensive specialist (whatever that means in the context of evaluating his shooting).


I don't want him going full Ben Simmons where he just stops taking them and the other team backs 15 feet off of him. Marcus Smart took a lot of time to develop any type of shot.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
FranchisePlayer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,351
And1: 461
Joined: Oct 25, 2019
 

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#37 » by FranchisePlayer » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:46 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
He's a defensive specialist until further notice, but fans underrate his defense.


I think that's a poor excuse. If he decides to take 7 shots, he needs to bury at least 2 of those.

0 out of 7 is unacceptable even for a defensive specialist (whatever that means in the context of evaluating his shooting).


I don't want him going full Ben Simmons where he just stops taking them and the other team backs 15 feet off of him. Marcus Smart took a lot of time to develop any type of shot.


Yeah which kind of brings back to my point: if you're on the court, you need to take shots, even a limited number.

If you can't make any of them, even with prowess in other areas of the game, I see no other alternative than being benched.
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.
FranchisePlayer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,351
And1: 461
Joined: Oct 25, 2019
 

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#38 » by FranchisePlayer » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:49 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
He's a defensive specialist until further notice, but fans underrate his defense.


I think that's a poor excuse. If he decides to take 7 shots, he needs to bury at least 2 of those.

0 out of 7 is unacceptable even for a defensive specialist (whatever that means in the context of evaluating his shooting).


I assume the excuse is the Cavs are trying to get him back in the swing of things coming off his injury, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing JBB give Windler a longer look, unless he's on a minutes restriction we've never heard about.

Dylan hasn't had a negative +/- since his first two games.


Rushing someone back from an injury has never been a good practise in my book.
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.
JonFromVA
General Manager
Posts: 8,714
And1: 2,591
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#39 » by JonFromVA » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:33 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
I think that's a poor excuse. If he decides to take 7 shots, he needs to bury at least 2 of those.

0 out of 7 is unacceptable even for a defensive specialist (whatever that means in the context of evaluating his shooting).


I assume the excuse is the Cavs are trying to get him back in the swing of things coming off his injury, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing JBB give Windler a longer look, unless he's on a minutes restriction we've never heard about.

Dylan hasn't had a negative +/- since his first two games.


Rushing someone back from an injury has never been a good practise in my book.


JBB clearly feels we need Isaac's ability on defense and was probably quite happy to sacrifice all his offense for what he got when Isaac was on Beal. Once we feel behind to the Celtics, he could no longer pretend defense was going to be enough to win the game.

Turns out our defense was a big part of what did win the game after pulling Isaac and going small, go figure.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 44,707
And1: 25,709
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: GT #14 Celtics @ Cavaliers, 13 November 2021, 8:00 PM ET 

Post#40 » by jbk1234 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:49 pm

I don't have a problem moving Okoro to the bench, but both Love and Lauri are still out and the Cavs can absolutely use Okoro in rotations with those two players.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers