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Cedi has that Eastern European thing where he's going to push back, and if the Cavs are to have any chance in the playoffs, both he and Stevens need to be on the roster.

Purpose of a trade:

The offense was horrible. Outscored 45- 23 to close the game. It was ugly too. Rondo really couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with two very bad misses. Mobley missed three of four free throws. If Cedi didnt connect on three or four really difficult shots it wouldve been much worse

Anyone thinking this team should stand pat is insane. They need more offense bad.
Rubios going to to be injured to start the season. I cant see anyone paying him more than hes making now or offer a long contract. At the very least, that has to be moved.

I feel like the Cavs walking off the court without shaking hands was a message to the NBA about how physical this game was permitted to get?

If so, there are better ways to send that message.

I guess they were just pissed off by the L. Officiating was far worse against Giannis.

Kudos to Pistons: every season, all Lottery-Scavengers display some great game against good teams here and there to sorta make up for their disgraceful regular performances.

Same team excelling against MIL was low profiled tonight.
NBA happens.

jbk1234 wrote:I feel like the Cavs walking off the court without shaking hands was a message to the NBA about how physical this game was permitted to get?

If so, there are better ways to send that message.

Agreed. Especially when they play the Pistons like four more times soon.

And Kelly Olynik is coming back...

johnnyballgame wrote:Purpose of a trade:

The offense was horrible. Outscored 45- 23 to close the game. It was ugly too. Rondo really couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with two very bad misses. Mobley missed three of four free throws. If Cedi didnt connect on three or four really difficult shots it wouldve been much worse

Anyone thinking this team should stand pat is insane. They need more offense bad.
Rubios going to to be injured to start the season. I cant see anyone paying him more than hes making now or offer a long contract. At the very least, that has to be moved.

I take issue with your use of the word "insane", but yes Garland needs some help. Probably deserves a deeper dive, but the Pistons were able to keep him out of the paint all game and took away the lob game and drive and kick game.

And while Wade did a nice job on Cade in the first half, I was surprised JBB didn't tag Isaac and at the very least would have gone to him a lot sooner.

In the rookie thread, Piston's fans told me Cade had no help, but that was clearly not the case in this game. They looked a lot better without his ball stopping and forcing up shots until the second half when he got some matches he could exploit.

I guess the Cavs arrived because this was the sort of game a veteran laden team looses to a young up-start team that just wanted it more this night thinking the game was over in the first quarter.

JonFromVA wrote:
I take issue with your use of the word "insane", .

Is there one good valid reason for keeping Rubio and/or his contract for the rest of this season?
Does that help in any meaningful way?

Being that there isn't one, I'd say its foolish and unreasonable, even crazy, to want to keep him when there's plenty of good players we can obtain for him that can help not only this season but even in the future.

I'm pretty sure Rubio himself would be MORE likely to sign another contract with the Cavs if we had an even better team with a better shot at winning. So not trading him...

Sometimes the truth hurts...

johnnyballgame wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
I take issue with your use of the word "insane", .

Is there one good valid reason for keeping Rubio and/or his contract for the rest of this season?
Does that help in any meaningful way?

Being that there isn't one, I'd say its foolish and unreasonable, even crazy, to want to keep him when there's plenty of good players we can obtain for him that can help not only this season but even in the future.

I'm pretty sure Rubio himself would be MORE likely to sign another contract with the Cavs if we had an even better team with a better shot at winning. So not trading him...

Sometimes the truth hurts...

The Cavs have not had a legit backup PG in years. This season, we finally found one. If the price is right, I'd like Ricky to stick around. That said, if a deal comes about where his contract is needed purely as an expiring, we'd have to consider it. Am I moving Rubio for Hield or Levert? Probably not.

johnnyballgame wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
I take issue with your use of the word "insane", .

Is there one good valid reason for keeping Rubio and/or his contract for the rest of this season?
Does that help in any meaningful way?

Being that there isn't one, I'd say its foolish and unreasonable, even crazy, to want to keep him when there's plenty of good players we can obtain for him that can help not only this season but even in the future.

I'm pretty sure Rubio himself would be MORE likely to sign another contract with the Cavs if we had an even better team with a better shot at winning. So not trading him...

Sometimes the truth hurts...

Just because you can't think of a good reason, doesn't mean someone else on the board can't. So, yeah, it doesn't help discussion to use words like "insane" or "foolish and unreasonable, etc".

I mean just off the top of my head ...

We don't even know who's on the table for Ricky's contract what they will cost in terms of other assets, what they will cost in terms of future money, how Ricky would actually feel if we traded him and could only offer him the tax payer MLE, how that new player will perform and would actually fit with the roster, how the asset we give up will perform, etc, etc.

What we do know is most of the candidates will be someone another team is happy to salary dump.

I hope and expect Altman to make a move, but I also expect him to be willing to walk away if there isn't a good move or the sellers smell our desperation and set their asking price too high.

mcfly1204 wrote:

johnnyballgame wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
I take issue with your use of the word "insane", .

Is there one good valid reason for keeping Rubio and/or his contract for the rest of this season?
Does that help in any meaningful way?

Being that there isn't one, I'd say its foolish and unreasonable, even crazy, to want to keep him when there's plenty of good players we can obtain for him that can help not only this season but even in the future.

I'm pretty sure Rubio himself would be MORE likely to sign another contract with the Cavs if we had an even better team with a better shot at winning. So not trading him...

Sometimes the truth hurts...

The Cavs have not had a legit backup PG in years. This season, we finally found one. If the price is right, I'd like Ricky to stick around. That said, if a deal comes about where his contract is needed purely as an expiring, we'd have to consider it. Am I moving Rubio for Hield or Levert? Probably not.

To me keeping Rubio is a gimme in theory.

Can they really pull it off is another question but questioning his ability to improve this team and replacing him with a less talented player is pure folly.

FranchisePlayer wrote:

mcfly1204 wrote:

johnnyballgame wrote:
Is there one good valid reason for keeping Rubio and/or his contract for the rest of this season?
Does that help in any meaningful way?

Being that there isn't one, I'd say its foolish and unreasonable, even crazy, to want to keep him when there's plenty of good players we can obtain for him that can help not only this season but even in the future.

I'm pretty sure Rubio himself would be MORE likely to sign another contract with the Cavs if we had an even better team with a better shot at winning. So not trading him...

Sometimes the truth hurts...

The Cavs have not had a legit backup PG in years. This season, we finally found one. If the price is right, I'd like Ricky to stick around. That said, if a deal comes about where his contract is needed purely as an expiring, we'd have to consider it. Am I moving Rubio for Hield or Levert? Probably not.

To me keeping Rubio is a gimme in theory.

Can they really pull it off is another question but questioning his ability to improve this team and replacing him with a less talented player is pure folly.

The only pure folly is acting like Rubio, who is done for the season And not under contract for another is helping in any way going forward.

If they want him for next year or beyond they just have to sign him.
First, he has said he didn't want to come here and was disappointed when traded here.
Sure, he gave a little lip service after that while he was here, but what did you honestly expect him to say.
I guess suddenly because our team won for the first time since LeBron left and he was a part of that for less than half a season, he's supposed to change his mind entirely and want to live here for the rest of his life basking in the yearly Cavs championship runs that no other team can possibly give him.

Thats folly. If the Cavs make any move at all he's gone. And everyone says they're very active.
Hopefully he loved his incredible role here so much he resigns in the off season but I bet dolkars to donuts he doesn't. I don't do folly.

You keep making that same statement, except it's in a vacuum. Who are you trading Rubio for? Would I trade him for any wing? No. Would I trade him for a clear upgrade where we will not regret the cap impact after this season? Yes.

johnnyballgame wrote:

FranchisePlayer wrote:

mcfly1204 wrote:The Cavs have not had a legit backup PG in years. This season, we finally found one. If the price is right, I'd like Ricky to stick around. That said, if a deal comes about where his contract is needed purely as an expiring, we'd have to consider it. Am I moving Rubio for Hield or Levert? Probably not.

To me keeping Rubio is a gimme in theory.

Can they really pull it off is another question but questioning his ability to improve this team and replacing him with a less talented player is pure folly.

The only pure folly is acting like Rubio, who is done for the season And not under contract for another is helping in any way going forward.

If they want him for next year or beyond they just have to sign him.
First, he has said he didn't want to come here and was disappointed when traded here.
Sure, he gave a little lip service after that while he was here, but what did you honestly expect him to say.
I guess suddenly because our team won for the first time since LeBron left and he was a part of that for less than half a season, he's supposed to change his mind entirely and want to live here for the rest of his life basking in the yearly Cavs championship runs that no other team can possibly give him.

Thats folly. If the Cavs make any move at all he's gone. And everyone says they're very active.
Hopefully he loved his incredible role here so much he resigns in the off season but I bet dolkars to donuts he doesn't. I don't do folly.

Well, given he's under contract to us we have a few advantages that we won't have if we trade him.

For one thing, we understand the extent of his injury and can work with him on his rehab. We are presumably free to start discussing a contract extension and feel him out on whether he'd like to return and his Bird rights would let us pay him more than a lot of other teams.

On the other hand, if we're concerned about how his shooting started to drop off (29% on 3's in December and 47.6 TS%), his age, his mileage, the fact he's had two surgeries on the same knee, his cost, etc, etc; then he may not be in our future plans.

And still, it comes down to what's on the table.

If Garland's back is going to keep acting up, I'm a lot less interested in making a move to help fill holes for a playoff run and a lot more focused on next year and beyond.

johnnyballgame wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
I take issue with your use of the word "insane", .

Is there one good valid reason for keeping Rubio and/or his contract for the rest of this season?
Does that help in any meaningful way?

Being that there isn't one, I'd say its foolish and unreasonable, even crazy, to want to keep him when there's plenty of good players we can obtain for him that can help not only this season but even in the future.

I'm pretty sure Rubio himself would be MORE likely to sign another contract with the Cavs if we had an even better team with a better shot at winning. So not trading him...

Sometimes the truth hurts...

1) Allow the Cavs to operate as an over the cap team with the Rubio & Sexton cap holds.

2) Bring Rubio back without using the MLE that can be used to upgrade the team elsewhere.


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KuruptedCav wrote:

johnnyballgame wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
I take issue with your use of the word "insane", .

Is there one good valid reason for keeping Rubio and/or his contract for the rest of this season?
Does that help in any meaningful way?

Being that there isn't one, I'd say its foolish and unreasonable, even crazy, to want to keep him when there's plenty of good players we can obtain for him that can help not only this season but even in the future.

I'm pretty sure Rubio himself would be MORE likely to sign another contract with the Cavs if we had an even better team with a better shot at winning. So not trading him...

Sometimes the truth hurts...

1) Allow the Cavs to operate as an over the cap team with the Rubio & Sexton cap holds.

2) Bring Rubio back without using the MLE that can be used to upgrade the team elsewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Bringing Rubio back with the mid-level next year means you've added a player this year in his salary slot. So lets say add $18 mil player this year plus Rubio at MLE next year versus keeping Rubio and adding a player at the MLE next year. Clearly the chances are better we can add a more impactful player this year (Levert, Barnes, Hield, Kennard, Covington, etc. have been rumored) by trading Rubio now than with the MLE next year.
And again, there is zero guarantee he signs here either way. Give me the sure thing that helps now and later over hope we get some later.

I really don't understand how Cleveland fan has any confidence of players CHOOSING to sign here.

mcfly1204 wrote:You keep making that same statement, except it's in a vacuum. Who are you trading Rubio for? Would I trade him for any wing? No. Would I trade him for a clear upgrade where we will not regret the cap impact after this season? Yes.

My preference is Barnes, but its not my choice. I trust Altman will make the right pick of who he has a chance at. And I trust that player will have more of an impact this year than Rubio and most likely next year. I don't think Barnes solves all our problems this year either. I think he's the best player to be had, fits into our defense first team incredibly. Sexton and Lauri can provide offense, or be traded next year for players who can.
I don't believe success finds people waiting for it to happen to them. You have to go make it happen. Maybe you fail, but at least you took your shot. If the Cavs sit still, other teams are going to get better around them.
There are some good players available at this deadline, that aren't other teams problems. And Cleveland teams will never have an easy time convincing good players to sign here. That's the way its always been.

mcfly1204 wrote:You keep making that same statement, except it's in a vacuum. Who are you trading Rubio for? Would I trade him for any wing? No. Would I trade him for a clear upgrade where we will not regret the cap impact after this season? Yes.

My preference is Barnes, but its not my choice. I trust Altman will make the right pick of who he has a chance at. And I trust that player will have more of an impact this year than Rubio and most likely next year. I don't think Barnes solves all our problems this year either. I think he's the best player to be had, fits into our defense first team incredibly. Sexton and Lauri can provide offense, or be traded next year for players who can.
I don't believe success finds people waiting for it to happen to them. You have to go make it happen. Maybe you fail, but at least you took your shot. If the Cavs sit still, other teams are going to get better around them.
There are some good players available at this deadline, that aren't other teams problems. And Cleveland teams will never have an easy time convincing good players to sign here. That's the way its always been.

I also think getting Barnes saves money because it allows us to move Cedi for backup point guard help. It'll be easier in general to find help behind Garland than at the wings.

johnnyballgame wrote:

mcfly1204 wrote:You keep making that same statement, except it's in a vacuum. Who are you trading Rubio for? Would I trade him for any wing? No. Would I trade him for a clear upgrade where we will not regret the cap impact after this season? Yes.

My preference is Barnes, but its not my choice. I trust Altman will make the right pick of who he has a chance at. And I trust that player will have more of an impact this year than Rubio and most likely next year. I don't think Barnes solves all our problems this year either. I think he's the best player to be had, fits into our defense first team incredibly. Sexton and Lauri can provide offense, or be traded next year for players who can.
I don't believe success finds people waiting for it to happen to them. You have to go make it happen. Maybe you fail, but at least you took your shot. If the Cavs sit still, other teams are going to get better around them.
There are some good players available at this deadline, that aren't other teams problems. And Cleveland teams will never have an easy time convincing good players to sign here. That's the way its always been.

But what if Altman decides to not move the Rubio contract? Are you going to keep faith or accept that there wasn't a deal worth making?

fwiw, our cap situation makes it difficult to be a factor in free-agency as does our location; but IMO there's a chance DG and our team culture will be able to attract players to Cleveland. Getting to play with a PG like Garland with a front line like Mobley and Allen is ideal for a whole lot of wings. At least the ones that want to win and contribute rather than be "the man" on their own team.

JonFromVA wrote:

johnnyballgame wrote:

mcfly1204 wrote:You keep making that same statement, except it's in a vacuum. Who are you trading Rubio for? Would I trade him for any wing? No. Would I trade him for a clear upgrade where we will not regret the cap impact after this season? Yes.

My preference is Barnes, but its not my choice. I trust Altman will make the right pick of who he has a chance at. And I trust that player will have more of an impact this year than Rubio and most likely next year. I don't think Barnes solves all our problems this year either. I think he's the best player to be had, fits into our defense first team incredibly. Sexton and Lauri can provide offense, or be traded next year for players who can.
I don't believe success finds people waiting for it to happen to them. You have to go make it happen. Maybe you fail, but at least you took your shot. If the Cavs sit still, other teams are going to get better around them.
There are some good players available at this deadline, that aren't other teams problems. And Cleveland teams will never have an easy time convincing good players to sign here. That's the way its always been.

But what if Altman decides to not move the Rubio contract? Are you going to keep faith or accept that there wasn't a deal worth making?

fwiw, our cap situation makes it difficult to be a factor in free-agency as does our location; but IMO there's a chance DG and our team culture will be able to attract players to Cleveland. Getting to play with a PG like Garland with a front line like Mobley and Allen is ideal for a whole lot of wings. At least the ones that want to win and contribute rather than be "the man" on their own team.

Keep the faith? I've been a Cavs fan my whole life. Since before World B. Free. I've watched entire seasons of Ben Poquette. If there's no trade made, I'm going to be very disappointed. As I usually am with Cleveland sports.
But as a realist, not a pessimist. We've had contending teams in the past. How many guys signed here as free agents? I'm not sure we need to "attract" anyone but I'm really sure we need to trade for someone. Almost no one is coming here as a choice. Even when we had the best player in the game, in ten years who came here? The shell of Dwayne Wade?
In this league guys force trades to the team they choose on a whim, come up with schemes on the back of buses, etc. Who ever wanted their way to the Cavs? We almost always have to overpay and go get someone.
Again, there are above average players out there that aren't some other teams baggage. The Cavs have a core four of Alken, Mobley, Garland and Okoro that can be very good together for several years. Love, Markanen and Sexton provide offense thats needed. This team is close to being a real contender. The Nets are an injury or Harden signing away from falling apart. The Sixers have Embid but are a mess. Now is the time to be agressive!!
If Okoro and Mobley develop, a Golden State like years long run is real a possibility. Were just a couple players away. We can wait or constantly look to improve.

I'd do what it takes to get Barnes. Including overpay if necessary. Rubio and two picks if it got the deal done.
Allen, Mobley, Barnes, Okoro, Garland. Love, Markanen, Sexton. Thats a versatile team with an identity that can play with anyone and go deep in the playoffs with a couple of role players.
Osman can be moved for PG help as there wouldn't be a lot of minutes at the 2/3 and ball movement would be that much more important with Sexton back next year.
Building for next year doesn't have to wait for the offseason. Allen was bought in mid season.

No way I d stop trying to better the team to wait for the hope of Rubio resigning.