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Mobley is over helping on Embiid and it appears to be by design. This is dumdum defense.

I'm getting really sick and tired of the Cavs starting every game slow and having to spend the entire 2nd half coming back.

Feels like we haven't stepped on the necks of a team in a long time

76ers were proving to be a very good team even with Simmons.

No surprise this 15-30.

Garlandas isn't in his best shape (I'm fearing his back won't stop annoyingh him all season long).
Mari Karmen would be very helpful against Troel.

Still... CLECaus has its tricks.
We'll see if Amor and Ce Dios, boosted by Cari, can make some difference.

RRondo might not play cause Load Management, they said...

Dudes .......

I don't recall it ever being mentioned in 3 months .but we are going to really have to start talking about a Cedi long-term extension. He has been arguably the 4th or 5th best player on this team all year.

Pay the man.

LivingLegend wrote:Dudes .......

I don't recall it ever being mentioned in 3 months .but we are going to really have to start talking about a Cedi long-term extension. He has been arguably the 4th or 5th best player on this team all year.

Pay the man.

He's not, but if he was, that would be quite an indictment of our roster.

jbk1234 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Dudes .......

I don't recall it ever being mentioned in 3 months .but we are going to really have to start talking about a Cedi long-term extension. He has been arguably the 4th or 5th best player on this team all year.

Pay the man.

He's not, but if he were, that would be quite an indictment of our roster.

Garland/Allen/Love/Mobley those are the only 4 on the Cavs roster who are better than Cedi this year and I feel like Mobley/Cedi are a toss up with the way Mobley has been playing for the past month.. Cedi has kept the Cavs in so many games this year off the bench it's insane.

He is probably responsible for the Cavs winning 6-8 games this year because of his play alone.

So this game is why I didn't want to make a lateral win-now move with cap space and picks. I never bought into the idea that we were elite with Mobley still being a rookie and Rubio out for the season. Rubio was so critical to our early success and it's really difficult to replace what he does midseason.

None of Love, Cedi, nor LeVert look good trying to run an offense against good defensive teams. They're barely net positive when matched up against a good defender. I don't know if Rondo didn't play because it was a back to back or if Bickerstaff just does have confidence in him against a team like this.

With the exception of Garland, our three point shooters are unreliable. They're streaky. They don't scare anyone. Maybe when Lauri comes back, we get good Lauri, and he'll make a difference from outside.

I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I think we were a year away on the development front with Okoro and Mobley, and an acquisition of a player better than LeVert, from presenting a real threat to a team like the Sixers.

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Dudes .......

I don't recall it ever being mentioned in 3 months .but we are going to really have to start talking about a Cedi long-term extension. He has been arguably the 4th or 5th best player on this team all year.

Pay the man.

He's not, but if he were, that would be quite an indictment of our roster.

Garland/Allen/Love/Mobley those are the only 4 on the Cavs roster who are better than Cedi this year and I feel like Mobley/Cedi are a toss up with the way Mobley has been playing for the past month.. Cedi has kept the Cavs in so many games this year off the bench it's insane.

He is probably responsible for the Cavs winning 6-8 games this year because of his play alone.

Streaky shooters getting hot for 8-10 games in a season doesn't make them one of the better players on your roster. He's a good bench player but he's not great at any one skill and rather average at most of them.

jbk1234 wrote:So this game is why I didn't want to make a lateral win-now move with cap space and picks. I never bought into the idea that we were elite with Mobley still being a rookie and Rubio out for the season. Rubio was so critical to our early success and it's really difficult to replace what he does midseason.

None of Love, Cedi, nor LeVert look good trying to run an offense against good defensive teams. They're barely net positive when matched up against a good defender. I don't know if Rondo didn't play because it was a back to back or if Bickerstaff just does have confidence in him against a team like this.

With the exception of Garland, our three point shooters are unreliable. They're streaky. They don't scare anyone. Maybe when Lauri comes back, we get good Lauri, and he'll make a difference from outside.

I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I think we were a year away on the development front with Okoro and Mobley, and an acquisition of a player better than LeVert, from presenting a real threat to a team like the Sixers.

On the upside; if Harden gets healthy, the 76ers become a much worse defensive team…


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jbk1234 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
He's not, but if he were, that would be quite an indictment of our roster.

Garland/Allen/Love/Mobley those are the only 4 on the Cavs roster who are better than Cedi this year and I feel like Mobley/Cedi are a toss up with the way Mobley has been playing for the past month.. Cedi has kept the Cavs in so many games this year off the bench it's insane.

He is probably responsible for the Cavs winning 6-8 games this year because of his play alone.

Streaky shooters getting hot for 8-10 games in a season doesn't make them one of the better players on your roster. He's a good bench player but he's not great at any one skill and rather average at most of them.

He is one of the very few people on this roster who can beat his man off dribble and shoot the 3. Hes pretty valuable. Outside of those 4 I mentioned who do you think is better than Osman on this roster?

Its Garland, Allen and Mobley (though Mobley has been *** for a month). The its Love/Cedi in whatever particular order.

Sicne the Cavs have spent 4 years never addressing a wing player who can dribble and create his own shot---Cedi looks pretty valuable considering he is only 1 of 3 players on a 15 man roster who can do what he does.

it might not be valuable on a normally good team, but on this team as constructed, his skillset is elite.

Ill put it this way--if Cedi went down with a 4 month injury, the Cavs would feel it more than if Okoro went down with the same injury.

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:
Garland/Allen/Love/Mobley those are the only 4 on the Cavs roster who are better than Cedi this year and I feel like Mobley/Cedi are a toss up with the way Mobley has been playing for the past month.. Cedi has kept the Cavs in so many games this year off the bench it's insane.

He is probably responsible for the Cavs winning 6-8 games this year because of his play alone.

Streaky shooters getting hot for 8-10 games in a season doesn't make them one of the better players on your roster. He's a good bench player but he's not great at any one skill and rather average at most of them.

He is one of the very few people on this roster who can beat his man off dribble and shoot the 3. Hes pretty valuable. Outside of those 4 I mentioned who do you think is better than Osman on this roster?

I think Okoro is an elite defender and the Cavs would absolutely suffer if we had Cedi guarding the other team's best guard/wing. Lauri's the better shooter. Cedi strikes me as a jack of all trades master of none guy. He's a good bench player but he's at his ceiling and I'm not convinced the other two are.

I just don't get the desire to extend role players before you have to. We don't know what opportunities might present themselves. The Cavs should be keeping their options open. The Mavs just extended DFS a few months before his contract expires.

jbk1234 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
Streaky shooters getting hot for 8-10 games in a season doesn't make them one of the better players on your roster. He's a good bench player but he's not great at any one skill and rather average at most of them.

He is one of the very few people on this roster who can beat his man off dribble and shoot the 3. Hes pretty valuable. Outside of those 4 I mentioned who do you think is better than Osman on this roster?

I think Okoro is an elite defender. Lauri's the better shooter. Cedi strikes me as a jack of all trades master of none guy. He's a good bench player but he's at his ceiling and I'm not convinced the other two are.

I just don't get the desire to extend role players before you have to. We don't know what opportunities might present themselves. The Cavs should be keeping their options open. The Mavs just extended DFS a few months before his contract expires.

I think that would be a mistake as he is a perfect backup/rotational SF. Like....perfect.

Okoro, however is borderlining on becoming the Tristan Thompson of wing players...and I dont like it. He hasnt improved or even shown a glimpse of improvement offensively in over a year.

Cedi at least has the tools where if one aspect isnt working, he can contribute elsewhere. Okoro and Lauri cant. If Okoro is getting dusted defensively, hes useless. If Lauri' shot isnt going down, hes useless.

Cedi can at least confidently break down a defense which nobody on this roster not named Darius can do.

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:
He is one of the very few people on this roster who can beat his man off dribble and shoot the 3. Hes pretty valuable. Outside of those 4 I mentioned who do you think is better than Osman on this roster?

I think Okoro is an elite defender. Lauri's the better shooter. Cedi strikes me as a jack of all trades master of none guy. He's a good bench player but he's at his ceiling and I'm not convinced the other two are.

I just don't get the desire to extend role players before you have to. We don't know what opportunities might present themselves. The Cavs should be keeping their options open. The Mavs just extended DFS a few months before his contract expires.

I think that would be a mistake as he is a perfect backup/rotational SF. Like....perfect.

Okoro, however is borderlining on becoming the Tristan Thompson of wing player....and I dont like it.

Cedi at least has the tools where if one aspect isnt working, he can contribute elsewhere. Okoro and Lauri cant. If Okoro is getting dusted defensively, hes useless. If Lauri' shot isnt going down, hes useless.

Cedi is under contract for two more seasons after this which is fine. I do find it odd how comfortable you are ignoring the entirety of Cedi's last season while drawing sweeping conclusions on Okoro and Lauri off of smaller sample sizes.

jbk1234 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
I think Okoro is an elite defender. Lauri's the better shooter. Cedi strikes me as a jack of all trades master of none guy. He's a good bench player but he's at his ceiling and I'm not convinced the other two are.

I just don't get the desire to extend role players before you have to. We don't know what opportunities might present themselves. The Cavs should be keeping their options open. The Mavs just extended DFS a few months before his contract expires.

I think that would be a mistake as he is a perfect backup/rotational SF. Like....perfect.

Okoro, however is borderlining on becoming the Tristan Thompson of wing player....and I dont like it.

Cedi at least has the tools where if one aspect isnt working, he can contribute elsewhere. Okoro and Lauri cant. If Okoro is getting dusted defensively, hes useless. If Lauri' shot isnt going down, hes useless.

Cedi is under contract for two more seasons after this which is fine. I do find it odd how comfortable you are ignoring the entirety of Cedi's last season while drawing sweeping conclusions on Okoro and Lauri off of smaller sample sizes.

I think Ive made it very well known that players play better on good teams and all preconceived notions about their game can be tossed out a window when going from a bad team to a good team. 75% of it is effort. Do you really think a player is giving max effort to their full capabilities on a team scheduled for 30 wins? Do we not have a 1st hand answer to that by watching Love?

Lauri got here and improved on defense when everyone said he sucked on defense, LeVert has looked like a defensive stud after mich of the same, Love is having a career year in a different role, Cedi is having a career year in a different role, Rubio before injury was having a career year. Its not just coincidence. I need people to understand that.

Its almost like role, fit and scheme determines how well a player can be and not just hit raw attributes. Its not just coincidence that every one of the Cavs players are magically playing above their heads. Coaching matters. Scheme matters. Roles matter. They all matter more than a players raw basketball ability.

Hell, we saw it with JR Smith for 4 years. Judging anybody about what they did 2 years ago in determining how they would perform on this roster is silly.

jbk1234 wrote:None of Love, Cedi, nor LeVert look good trying to run an offense against good defensive teams. They're barely net positive when matched up against a good defender.

Absolutely agree.

jbk1234 wrote: I don't know if Rondo didn't play because it was a back to back or if Bickerstaff just does have confidence in him against a team like this.

I guess it's a typo and you meant does NOT have confidence.

J.B. has full confidence in Rajon against a team like whatever.
It was purely Load Management and will happen again versus teams entirely different than 76ers.

LivingLegend wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:
I think that would be a mistake as he is a perfect backup/rotational SF. Like....perfect.

Okoro, however is borderlining on becoming the Tristan Thompson of wing player....and I dont like it.

Cedi at least has the tools where if one aspect isnt working, he can contribute elsewhere. Okoro and Lauri cant. If Okoro is getting dusted defensively, hes useless. If Lauri' shot isnt going down, hes useless.

Cedi is under contract for two more seasons after this which is fine. I do find it odd how comfortable you are ignoring the entirety of Cedi's last season while drawing sweeping conclusions on Okoro and Lauri off of smaller sample sizes.

I think Ive made it very well known that players play better on good teams and all preconceived notions about their game can be tossed out a window when going from a bad team to a good team. 75% of it is effort. Do you really think a player is giving max effort to their full capabilities on a team scheduled for 30 wins? Do we not have a 1st hand answer to that by watching Love?

Lauri got here and improved on defense when everyone said he sucked on defense, LeVert has looked like a defensive stud after mich of the same, Love is having a career year in a different role, Cedi is having a career year in a different role, Rubio before injury was having a career year. Its not just coincidence. I need people to understand that.

Its almost like role, fit and scheme determines how well a player can be and not just hit raw attributes. Its not just coincidence that every one of the Cavs players are magically playing above their heads. Coaching matters. Scheme matters. Roles matter. They all matter more than a players raw basketball ability.

Hell, we saw it with JR Smith for 4 years. Judging anybody about what they did 2 years ago in determining how they would perform on this roster is silly.

To be clear, Love is not having a career year. He's having a good year. Earlier in his career, when he also played with Rubio, he had better seasons.

Cedi is shooting better, like a lot better, from 3 point range than he did last season. Some, but not all of that, is he's taking batter shots. He's still a streaky shooter. He's more likely to have a range of games where he goes 1 for 6, or 4 of 6, than a range of games where he goes 3 for 6. Playing next to Rubio helped. Playing next to Sexton did not. I'm seeing early signs that playing next to LeVert isn't going to be helpful.

When the Cavs are able to move the ball, they all look better. When the offense stagnates, everyone except for Garland, who really is elite, looks worse. But that doesn't make the individual players *better* individually, it means the team is playing better, and the impact on individual performance translates to most players, or at least those players who don't need to constantly ISO. Rubio is the guy the Cavs are truly missing.

It really sucks for Sexton that he got hurt and was denied the opportunity to show what he could do in this system and with this team before decision time came (I personally think it did, and would've looked a lot like how incorporating LeVert is going). But make no mistake, it really sucked for the Cavs that Rubio got injured. If he had stayed healthy, they could've gone out and got a genuine shooter like Buddy, CJ Miles, E. Gordon, etc. and had a puncher's chance to do real damage in the post season.

jbk1234 wrote:So this game is why I didn't want to make a lateral win-now move with cap space and picks. I never bought into the idea that we were elite with Mobley still being a rookie and Rubio out for the season. Rubio was so critical to our early success and it's really difficult to replace what he does midseason.

None of Love, Cedi, nor LeVert look good trying to run an offense against good defensive teams. They're barely net positive when matched up against a good defender. I don't know if Rondo didn't play because it was a back to back or if Bickerstaff just does have confidence in him against a team like this.

With the exception of Garland, our three point shooters are unreliable. They're streaky. They don't scare anyone. Maybe when Lauri comes back, we get good Lauri, and he'll make a difference from outside.

I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I think we were a year away on the development front with Okoro and Mobley, and an acquisition of a player better than LeVert, from presenting a real threat to a team like the Sixers.

Who cares? We have 3 more games (2 of them at home) against the Sixers to try to figure them out and we still might not even face them in the playoffs and of course Embiid can re-injure himself any moment.

What we need to do is get DG as healthy as possible, and try to help Evan catch his second win.

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:So this game is why I didn't want to make a lateral win-now move with cap space and picks. I never bought into the idea that we were elite with Mobley still being a rookie and Rubio out for the season. Rubio was so critical to our early success and it's really difficult to replace what he does midseason.

None of Love, Cedi, nor LeVert look good trying to run an offense against good defensive teams. They're barely net positive when matched up against a good defender. I don't know if Rondo didn't play because it was a back to back or if Bickerstaff just does have confidence in him against a team like this.

With the exception of Garland, our three point shooters are unreliable. They're streaky. They don't scare anyone. Maybe when Lauri comes back, we get good Lauri, and he'll make a difference from outside.

I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I think we were a year away on the development front with Okoro and Mobley, and an acquisition of a player better than LeVert, from presenting a real threat to a team like the Sixers.

Who cares? We have 3 more games (2 of them at home) against the Sixers to try to figure them out and we still might not even face them in the playoffs and of course Embiid can re-injure himself any moment.

What we need to do is get DG as healthy as possible, and try to help Evan catch his second win.

I view the Rubio injury as a season-altering event in terms of outcomes. If I saw an opportunity at the deadline to replace what he brought, I would've been all for it. I know I've probably beaten the analogy to death, but this is the quintessential Browns trading back into the first round in order to draft a QB with a 3rd round grade because they need a QB move. You still don't have a starting QB, but you have the added bonus of not having any of what you gave up to reach for him.

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:So this game is why I didn't want to make a lateral win-now move with cap space and picks. I never bought into the idea that we were elite with Mobley still being a rookie and Rubio out for the season. Rubio was so critical to our early success and it's really difficult to replace what he does midseason.

None of Love, Cedi, nor LeVert look good trying to run an offense against good defensive teams. They're barely net positive when matched up against a good defender. I don't know if Rondo didn't play because it was a back to back or if Bickerstaff just does have confidence in him against a team like this.

With the exception of Garland, our three point shooters are unreliable. They're streaky. They don't scare anyone. Maybe when Lauri comes back, we get good Lauri, and he'll make a difference from outside.

I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong, but I think we were a year away on the development front with Okoro and Mobley, and an acquisition of a player better than LeVert, from presenting a real threat to a team like the Sixers.

Who cares? We have 3 more games (2 of them at home) against the Sixers to try to figure them out and we still might not even face them in the playoffs and of course Embiid can re-injure himself any moment.

What we need to do is get DG as healthy as possible, and try to help Evan catch his second win.

I view the Rubio injury as a season-altering event in terms of outcomes. If I saw an opportunity at the deadline to replace what he brought, I would've been all for it. I know I've probably beaten the analogy to death, but this is the quintessential Browns trading back into the first round in order to draft a QB with a 3rd round grade because they need a QB move. You still don't have a starting QB, but you have the added bonus of not having any of what you gave up to reach for him.

I'm not feeling the Browns analogy at all and if you look at what we lost in Rubio discretely you'll see what we've done is replace some of the aspects of what he brought.

Speaking of ... Rondo didn't even play in the Sixers game, and Lauri who was a big part of our success is due back soon.

Just hope DG's back doesn't betray him.