Who is more important? Allen or Garland?

[cavs4872]

Read on Twitter

This tweet got me thinking... iirc the Cavs were equally as abysmal without Garland? It seems they're equally as important, and if we're missing either, the drop-off is significant. I'm literally convinced at this point that a healthy opening day roster for this team is a legitimate title contender, and could beat any team on any given night.

[TheLand13]

It's tough to say.

One on hand, without Garland's playmaking and scoring, the Cavaliers would have an extremely tough time keeping up with other teams regardless of how well they defended them. Cleveland without Garland was a disaster. In the first stint where he was out with covid, Cleveland at least had Rubio to run the point, so we still at least looked well on offense and even held our own against opposing teams. But during that second stint where he was out with back injuries, we were hilariously bad.

Even though Jarrett Allen being out resulted in our defense decreasing significantly, we were still at least able to generate a couple of important wins, including back to back ones against Denver and Detroit. Going forward, Mobley with his frame built more will more than likely do a much better job of covering the center position than he did this season. But the question is: who can cover the PG spot if Garland is out?

We need to keep in mind that one of the reasons Cleveland was one of the top defensive teams in the league was in large part due to how they were formed. Having Jarrett Allen protecting the paint did us wonders, but we can't ignore how much Mobley benefited from being at the PF spot and how much of a serious problem that was for opposing teams. I feel like whenever either of those guys are out, the other just isn't going to be as impactful, although it's very clear Allen did a much better job covering ground than Mobley did.

But one critical aspect that people tend to ignore with Allen is that it wasn't just the defense he provided. He was also our best rebounder, as well as our second leading scorer on 71% TS. He's providing elite production on both ends of the floor. Garland, as great as he is, wasn't giving us that. I'm not trying to undersell what Garland brought to the table, but it's so hard to replace what someone like Allen gives you. You don't find many guys in the league who can be an elite rim protecting big who can also get you nearly 20 points per game on elite efficiency AND average double digit boards per game. Guys like that will always have a place in this league, regardless of how limited they may be on offense.

So even though Darius Garland might ultimately be Cleveland's best player (and I wouldn't argue against it), I have to go with Allen on this one. At least until Mobley can develop into that kind of player (and I'm confident he not only will, but he'll be even better than that which will be awesome), the Cavaliers cannot be a legitimate playoff contending team without Allen. But then again, they can't be without Garland either. But at least a good playmaking PG with decent scoring ability can still help keep the offense running. Without Allen though, EVERYTHING changes. The way they play changes, their entire line has to get shifted down by one each, our big matchup advantages that many times hated dealing with is suddenly gone. Mobley's defensive effectiveness drops significantly. Garland loses his go to player. Cleveland's rebounding suffers. So much more changes with Allen gone than Garland.

[JonFromVA]

Well the discussion is polluted by the state of the C position. Andre Drummond is currently stuck on a minimum contract, and some of his peers are currently unemployed. So, in the market sense Allen is worth less. That's why he's getting $20M/yr and Garland is about to get his max extension.

And yes, with Rubio down, Wade down, Mobley too light ... part of the problem is the quality of our backups making those players even more critical to our success. If Love or Markkanen were better defenders, Allen's lose wouldn't be so severe.

Still, saying all of that, as it shakes out by the on/off numbers, the choice is Garland by a landslide. Allen's on-off was good this season, but DG's is superstar level.

[cavs4872]

After a day of mulling it over, I wanna say Allen is more important to the current team. I realized when Garland was out, we were using Pangos ... now, Rondo's playmaking and LeVert's scoring could compensate more for Garland than the huge hole Allen leaves.

Really wish Moses Brown got some minutes against the Nets... Drummond was a difference-maker for them. A year ago people were acting like centers like these were useless; meanwhile, give Allen a season on the Cavs and he becomes an All-Star, and Drummond has meaningful minutes in a play-in game.

Edit: Also, just added a poll.

[JonFromVA]

Also relevant to the future is the fact that Jarrett has more time in the league which means more time to adapt and learn his role, while Darius (playing a tougher position) has just started kicking things in to high gear this season. If he can cut down on his turnovers, continue to learn his teammates and improve his efficiency he can reach a very high level.

Which is not to say Jarrett can't continue to improve, but if it comes down to choosing between one of the best PG's in the league and one of the best rim protectors / rim runners, you pretty much always take the PG.

Paul over Ayton (or Chandler)
Rose over Noah
Curry over Green
Morant over Jackson Jr

etc

[TheLand13]

Well the discussion is polluted by the state of the C position. Andre Drummond is currently stuck on a minimum contract, and some of his peers are currently unemployed. So, in the market sense Allen is worth less. That's why he's getting $20M/yr and Garland is about to get his max extension.

The reason Allen is getting 20m per year is because he wasn't the player that he is now when he first got that contract. Granted, I think the potential had always been there (which is one of the reasons why I kept claiming at the time that we were underpaying him), but it wasn't demonstrated in the form of being a top rim protecting big who can put up averages of 16/11 on 71% TS. Legitimately great centers who can impact the game across multiple platforms are very difficult to come across. But if you can get them, you get them and you hold on tight. Cleveland just happened to link one to a five year deal before they truly broke out.

In other words, they got ridiculously lucky.

[JonFromVA]

Jarrett showed it at first (and that led to Drummond being sent home) but something changed and he wasn't the same for the end of last season.

Teams have no qualms overspending on potential at the other 4 positions...

No other positions seems to flip flop between essential piece and waste of cap space like Centers.