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Your ideal offseason plan

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toooskies
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#21 » by toooskies » Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:34 am

KuruptedCav wrote:
toooskies wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Branham in the 1st; he’s a good spot up shooter, moves the ball, and has excellent length. Rebounds well for the position.

Jordan Hall in the 2nd. The kid is a Swiss Army knife. TBD whether it is sharp or dull, but he filled up the box scores at St. Joe’s and shoots, passes and rebounds at a solid clip.

& Elder Mobley in the 2nd. He’s Evan’s brother, seems to be a high character family. And two-way contract him.

In free agency: Sexton signs his QO. Rubio takes MLE for 2 years. LeVert is not extended during the off-season.

Leaving me with:

Garland/Sexton/Rubio*
Okoro/LeVert/Branham/Windler
Markannen/Osman/Hall
Mobley/Stevens/Wade
Allen/Love/Mobley2

There are some interesting lineups in that depth chart and a ton of flexibility to jump into the trade market if someone shakes loose.


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Why do people insist the elder Mobley is a center? He weighs a bit more, but is shorter and has played F all his life.

Lack of speed and lateral movement, willingness to put his body into contact, and his ability to shoot.

I think he matches up better with 5s than 4s in the NBA where the talent jump at PF is significantly higher.

His size is less concerning. We’ve seen plenty of smaller guys transition from forward in college to the 5 at the pro-level.

That said, pencil him and Wade or Stevens at the 5. It doesn’t really matter positionally.

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Or how about we just don't draft and sign a guy who doesn't have the tools to play in the NBA? Invite him to camp, give him a spot on the Charge, but don't throw away a pick just for nepotism.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#22 » by jbk1234 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:41 am

toooskies wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:
toooskies wrote:Why do people insist the elder Mobley is a center? He weighs a bit more, but is shorter and has played F all his life.

Lack of speed and lateral movement, willingness to put his body into contact, and his ability to shoot.

I think he matches up better with 5s than 4s in the NBA where the talent jump at PF is significantly higher.

His size is less concerning. We’ve seen plenty of smaller guys transition from forward in college to the 5 at the pro-level.

That said, pencil him and Wade or Stevens at the 5. It doesn’t really matter positionally.

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Or how about we just don't draft and sign a guy who doesn't have the tools to play in the NBA? Invite him to camp, give him a spot on the Charge, but don't throw away a pick just for nepotism.


Fellas, this conversation is two years early. We've got plenty of time to debate whether to burn a pick on Brownie.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#23 » by KuruptedCav » Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:04 am

toooskies wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:
toooskies wrote:Why do people insist the elder Mobley is a center? He weighs a bit more, but is shorter and has played F all his life.

Lack of speed and lateral movement, willingness to put his body into contact, and his ability to shoot.

I think he matches up better with 5s than 4s in the NBA where the talent jump at PF is significantly higher.

His size is less concerning. We’ve seen plenty of smaller guys transition from forward in college to the 5 at the pro-level.

That said, pencil him and Wade or Stevens at the 5. It doesn’t really matter positionally.

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Or how about we just don't draft and sign a guy who doesn't have the tools to play in the NBA? Invite him to camp, give him a spot on the Charge, but don't throw away a pick just for nepotism.

Not to be that guy, but what good player are you targeting with the 56th pick in the draft? At that point, it’s a complete gamble and teams are selling picks for cash.

Thanasis seems to be doing alright in Milwaukee. There are worse players to take than high character non-disrupting players who appreciate their roles, work hard, and just do what is asked to the best of their abilities.

And there are plenty of examples of players who aren’t the most talented, athletic or skilled finding ways to make it work.

When I see him, I see Jawad Williams. And… I see Jawad Williams the post player from UNC who struggled on the wing in the NBA and was solid when playing inside in France. And I think, I wonder if that would work in bursts in the NBA.


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Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#24 » by KuruptedCav » Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:07 am

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Lack of speed and lateral movement, willingness to put his body into contact, and his ability to shoot.

I think he matches up better with 5s than 4s in the NBA where the talent jump at PF is significantly higher.

His size is less concerning. We’ve seen plenty of smaller guys transition from forward in college to the 5 at the pro-level.

That said, pencil him and Wade or Stevens at the 5. It doesn’t really matter positionally.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Or how about we just don't draft and sign a guy who doesn't have the tools to play in the NBA? Invite him to camp, give him a spot on the Charge, but don't throw away a pick just for nepotism.


Fellas, this conversation is two years early. We've got plenty of time to debate whether to burn a pick on Brownie.

I’d do that one too, my penchant for local kids being what it is…

Pete Nance as an Undrafted Free Agent could be a fun camp story. Kid can shoot. I’ll add that to my ideal off-season!


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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#25 » by toooskies » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:14 am

KuruptedCav wrote:
toooskies wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Lack of speed and lateral movement, willingness to put his body into contact, and his ability to shoot.

I think he matches up better with 5s than 4s in the NBA where the talent jump at PF is significantly higher.

His size is less concerning. We’ve seen plenty of smaller guys transition from forward in college to the 5 at the pro-level.

That said, pencil him and Wade or Stevens at the 5. It doesn’t really matter positionally.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Or how about we just don't draft and sign a guy who doesn't have the tools to play in the NBA? Invite him to camp, give him a spot on the Charge, but don't throw away a pick just for nepotism.

Not to be that guy, but what good player are you targeting with the 56th pick in the draft? At that point, it’s a complete gamble and teams are selling picks for cash.

Thanasis seems to be doing alright in Milwaukee. There are worse players to take than high character non-disrupting players who appreciate their roles, work hard, and just do what is asked to the best of their abilities.

And there are plenty of examples of players who aren’t the most talented, athletic or skilled finding ways to make it work.

When I see him, I see Jawad Williams. And… I see Jawad Williams the post player from UNC who struggled on the wing in the NBA and was solid when playing inside in France. And I think, I wonder if that would work in bursts in the NBA.


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I'd rather the Cavs sell it and apply the money to future salary.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#26 » by JonFromVA » Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:12 pm

toooskies wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:
toooskies wrote:Why do people insist the elder Mobley is a center? He weighs a bit more, but is shorter and has played F all his life.

Lack of speed and lateral movement, willingness to put his body into contact, and his ability to shoot.

I think he matches up better with 5s than 4s in the NBA where the talent jump at PF is significantly higher.

His size is less concerning. We’ve seen plenty of smaller guys transition from forward in college to the 5 at the pro-level.

That said, pencil him and Wade or Stevens at the 5. It doesn’t really matter positionally.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Or how about we just don't draft and sign a guy who doesn't have the tools to play in the NBA? Invite him to camp, give him a spot on the Charge, but don't throw away a pick just for nepotism.


We're not investing in Isaiah so much as we'd be investing in Evan, which even if Isaiah was a dud of a prospect would be worthwhile.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#27 » by toooskies » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:47 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Lack of speed and lateral movement, willingness to put his body into contact, and his ability to shoot.

I think he matches up better with 5s than 4s in the NBA where the talent jump at PF is significantly higher.

His size is less concerning. We’ve seen plenty of smaller guys transition from forward in college to the 5 at the pro-level.

That said, pencil him and Wade or Stevens at the 5. It doesn’t really matter positionally.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Or how about we just don't draft and sign a guy who doesn't have the tools to play in the NBA? Invite him to camp, give him a spot on the Charge, but don't throw away a pick just for nepotism.


We're not investing in Isaiah so much as we'd be investing in Evan, which even if Isaiah was a dud of a prospect would be worthwhile.

He can get a job with the Charge, or the coaching staff, or the film and analytics teams. Give him a deal on a Rocket Mortgage.

None of our players on our roster are pillars of health thus far in their careers except maybe Okoro, and we've actually needed production out of our 15th, 16th, and 17th roster spots the past two years. We really shouldn't waste a roster spot on a guy who can't do anything when he steps on the court.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#28 » by JonFromVA » Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:26 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:Or how about we just don't draft and sign a guy who doesn't have the tools to play in the NBA? Invite him to camp, give him a spot on the Charge, but don't throw away a pick just for nepotism.


We're not investing in Isaiah so much as we'd be investing in Evan, which even if Isaiah was a dud of a prospect would be worthwhile.

He can get a job with the Charge, or the coaching staff, or the film and analytics teams. Give him a deal on a Rocket Mortgage.

None of our players on our roster are pillars of health thus far in their careers except maybe Okoro, and we've actually needed production out of our 15th, 16th, and 17th roster spots the past two years. We really shouldn't waste a roster spot on a guy who can't do anything when he steps on the court.


Oh, the goal would be to play the brothers together (in bench rotations).

If it doesn't work-out, oh well?

At least we didn't disenfranchise our future franchise player for nothing.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#29 » by JonFromVA » Wed May 11, 2022 2:58 pm

We talk a lot about improving the team's spacing, but it's possible our spacing will improve on it's own as Allen, Mobley, and Okoro all work on their shot. In the short-term one viable approach is just to focus on replacing what Rubio brought us, either with Ricky or perhaps there are other players with the type of handles that let them probe and pick apart a defense?

Our three 7-footers give us a lot of easy finishing opportunities for a guard who can get the defense moving and find them.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#30 » by toooskies » Wed May 11, 2022 6:37 pm

JonFromVA wrote:We talk a lot about improving the team's spacing, but it's possible our spacing will improve on it's own as Allen, Mobley, and Okoro all work on their shot. In the short-term one viable approach is just to focus on replacing what Rubio brought us, either with Ricky or perhaps there are other players with the type of handles that let them probe and pick apart a defense?

Our three 7-footers give us a lot of easy finishing opportunities for a guard who can get the defense moving and find them.

Yes, a backup PG remains a priority. There are very few "true" PGs out there besides Ricky that are available. TJ McConnell if Indiana is going to blow things up more? Tyus Jones as a FA, if Memphis goes another direction with their cap space?

Very likely to be Rubio, Rondo, or Goodwin as the backup PG to start the season, with us running some zero-PG units with Sexton and LeVert if we bring them back.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#31 » by JonFromVA » Wed May 11, 2022 6:49 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:We talk a lot about improving the team's spacing, but it's possible our spacing will improve on it's own as Allen, Mobley, and Okoro all work on their shot. In the short-term one viable approach is just to focus on replacing what Rubio brought us, either with Ricky or perhaps there are other players with the type of handles that let them probe and pick apart a defense?

Our three 7-footers give us a lot of easy finishing opportunities for a guard who can get the defense moving and find them.

Yes, a backup PG remains a priority. There are very few "true" PGs out there besides Ricky that are available. TJ McConnell if Indiana is going to blow things up more? Tyus Jones as a FA, if Memphis goes another direction with their cap space?

Very likely to be Rubio, Rondo, or Goodwin as the backup PG to start the season, with us running some zero-PG units with Sexton and LeVert if we bring them back.


I'm suggesting this player doesn't have to be the backup PG, just someone at another spot with above average handles that can utilize our bigs and get DG involved as a shooter.

We haven't seen it click like it did so quickly with Ricky, but I do think we were hoping LeVert would provide some of what Ricky had been giving us. Possibly still could. We saw some him playing with blinders on at times, but it's conceivable he needs more time to learn his new teammates.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#32 » by toooskies » Wed May 11, 2022 9:14 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:We talk a lot about improving the team's spacing, but it's possible our spacing will improve on it's own as Allen, Mobley, and Okoro all work on their shot. In the short-term one viable approach is just to focus on replacing what Rubio brought us, either with Ricky or perhaps there are other players with the type of handles that let them probe and pick apart a defense?

Our three 7-footers give us a lot of easy finishing opportunities for a guard who can get the defense moving and find them.

Yes, a backup PG remains a priority. There are very few "true" PGs out there besides Ricky that are available. TJ McConnell if Indiana is going to blow things up more? Tyus Jones as a FA, if Memphis goes another direction with their cap space?

Very likely to be Rubio, Rondo, or Goodwin as the backup PG to start the season, with us running some zero-PG units with Sexton and LeVert if we bring them back.


I'm suggesting this player doesn't have to be the backup PG, just someone at another spot with above average handles that can utilize our bigs and get DG involved as a shooter.

We haven't seen it click like it did so quickly with Ricky, but I do think we were hoping LeVert would provide some of what Ricky had been giving us. Possibly still could. We saw some him playing with blinders on at times, but it's conceivable he needs more time to learn his new teammates.

The "probe and pick apart a defense" thing implied real PG-style skills rather than just a secondary ballhandler. Although one hopes Sexton's game can grow in that direction a bit, LeVert settles in with practice and an offseason, or another move.

But we still need a backup PG (or a guy we're comfortable starting at the point if Darius gets hurt) because we're a very injury-prone team.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#33 » by JonFromVA » Wed May 11, 2022 9:52 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:Yes, a backup PG remains a priority. There are very few "true" PGs out there besides Ricky that are available. TJ McConnell if Indiana is going to blow things up more? Tyus Jones as a FA, if Memphis goes another direction with their cap space?

Very likely to be Rubio, Rondo, or Goodwin as the backup PG to start the season, with us running some zero-PG units with Sexton and LeVert if we bring them back.


I'm suggesting this player doesn't have to be the backup PG, just someone at another spot with above average handles that can utilize our bigs and get DG involved as a shooter.

We haven't seen it click like it did so quickly with Ricky, but I do think we were hoping LeVert would provide some of what Ricky had been giving us. Possibly still could. We saw some him playing with blinders on at times, but it's conceivable he needs more time to learn his new teammates.

The "probe and pick apart a defense" thing implied real PG-style skills rather than just a secondary ballhandler. Although one hopes Sexton's game can grow in that direction a bit, LeVert settles in with practice and an offseason, or another move.

But we still need a backup PG (or a guy we're comfortable starting at the point if Darius gets hurt) because we're a very injury-prone team.


Yeah, in reality the top ball handlers tend to be either PG's or elite wings. It's a big ask to hope Caris or Collin (who have some PG skills) to be able to do what Ricky (who's been one of the best in the league) can do. Otoh, maybe Altman can identify the next Ricky who didn't have a ton of value around the league at the time we traded for him - but just happened to really fill a need for our team.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#34 » by toooskies » Thu May 12, 2022 3:50 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm suggesting this player doesn't have to be the backup PG, just someone at another spot with above average handles that can utilize our bigs and get DG involved as a shooter.

We haven't seen it click like it did so quickly with Ricky, but I do think we were hoping LeVert would provide some of what Ricky had been giving us. Possibly still could. We saw some him playing with blinders on at times, but it's conceivable he needs more time to learn his new teammates.

The "probe and pick apart a defense" thing implied real PG-style skills rather than just a secondary ballhandler. Although one hopes Sexton's game can grow in that direction a bit, LeVert settles in with practice and an offseason, or another move.

But we still need a backup PG (or a guy we're comfortable starting at the point if Darius gets hurt) because we're a very injury-prone team.


Yeah, in reality the top ball handlers tend to be either PG's or elite wings. It's a big ask to hope Caris or Collin (who have some PG skills) to be able to do what Ricky (who's been one of the best in the league) can do. Otoh, maybe Altman can identify the next Ricky who didn't have a ton of value around the league at the time we traded for him - but just happened to really fill a need for our team.

Cedi for TJ McConnell?
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#35 » by JonFromVA » Thu May 12, 2022 6:09 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:The "probe and pick apart a defense" thing implied real PG-style skills rather than just a secondary ballhandler. Although one hopes Sexton's game can grow in that direction a bit, LeVert settles in with practice and an offseason, or another move.

But we still need a backup PG (or a guy we're comfortable starting at the point if Darius gets hurt) because we're a very injury-prone team.


Yeah, in reality the top ball handlers tend to be either PG's or elite wings. It's a big ask to hope Caris or Collin (who have some PG skills) to be able to do what Ricky (who's been one of the best in the league) can do. Otoh, maybe Altman can identify the next Ricky who didn't have a ton of value around the league at the time we traded for him - but just happened to really fill a need for our team.

Cedi for TJ McConnell?


Wish he was taller, but certainly worth considering if the Pacers have any interest in Cedi and/or getting out of TJ's contract.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#36 » by TheLand13 » Tue May 17, 2022 8:03 pm

You know, I've been thinking about this a lot, but I'm really upset that Chris Paul's current contract doesn't actually end this season and was in fact a long term one. I think if he were to have worked a buyout (assuming he thinks Phoenix just doesn't have a chance if DA doesn't sign there), he would have been the perfect backup PG for Cleveland.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#37 » by JonFromVA » Wed May 18, 2022 6:48 pm

TheLand13 wrote:You know, I've been thinking about this a lot, but I'm really upset that Chris Paul's current contract doesn't actually end this season and was in fact a long term one. I think if he were to have worked a buyout (assuming he thinks Phoenix just doesn't have a chance if DA doesn't sign there), he would have been the perfect backup PG for Cleveland.


I suspect you're underestimating the prospects of the player who just led the Suns to 64 wins - even at 37 ... we were pretty lucky to get Rubio at a point in his career when nobody in the league saw him as a starting PG anymore.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#38 » by TheLand13 » Wed May 18, 2022 7:48 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:You know, I've been thinking about this a lot, but I'm really upset that Chris Paul's current contract doesn't actually end this season and was in fact a long term one. I think if he were to have worked a buyout (assuming he thinks Phoenix just doesn't have a chance if DA doesn't sign there), he would have been the perfect backup PG for Cleveland.


I suspect you're underestimating the prospects of the player who just led the Suns to 64 wins - even at 37 ... we were pretty lucky to get Rubio at a point in his career when nobody in the league saw him as a starting PG anymore.


None of that matters if things don't work out with DA.
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#39 » by JonFromVA » Wed May 18, 2022 9:02 pm

TheLand13 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:You know, I've been thinking about this a lot, but I'm really upset that Chris Paul's current contract doesn't actually end this season and was in fact a long term one. I think if he were to have worked a buyout (assuming he thinks Phoenix just doesn't have a chance if DA doesn't sign there), he would have been the perfect backup PG for Cleveland.


I suspect you're underestimating the prospects of the player who just led the Suns to 64 wins - even at 37 ... we were pretty lucky to get Rubio at a point in his career when nobody in the league saw him as a starting PG anymore.


None of that matters if things don't work out with DA.


Why do you think Paul would be willing to accept something like the MLE to backup Darius rather than go start and make more money for someone else?
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Re: Your ideal offseason plan 

Post#40 » by KuruptedCav » Wed May 18, 2022 11:25 pm

I don’t see CP3 but if Utah resets, Mike Conley in the Rubio role would be solid.


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