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Our lack of shooting depth is showing up early. We are getting great looks, but for the wrong people from three.

Okay, football is over, I'll watch the last part of the Cavs game.

Oof, only 81 points.

Sloppy game. Outside of a short stretch in the 2nd quarter we couldn't make anything. Couldn't hold onto the ball, and NY was letting us try (and fail) to shoot over them.

JA would've helped a ton rebounding some of those misses, Hartenstein seemed to muscle his way to a few big ones but we were crushed on the boards all night.

This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

jbk1234 wrote:This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

LeVert is on an insane rough stretch. People are saying this is typical LeVert, but no this is the worst LeVert has ever looked in the league. He is shooting a putrid 49.5% TS% this year which is easily the worst of his career. I don't have much to say for him.

Those little middies he likes near the rim will not fall and he is really struggling to get in the lane and not making plays when he does. Hope he can bounce back to look at least like a role player.

ijspeelman wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

LeVert is on an insane rough stretch. People are saying this is typical LeVert, but no this is the worst LeVert has ever looked in the league. He is shooting a putrid 49.5% TS% this year which is easily the worst of his career. I don't have much to say for him.

Those little middies he likes near the rim will not fall and he is really struggling to get in the lane and not making plays when he does. Hope he can bounce back to look at least like a role player.

The 49.5% isn't substantially lower than his career # (52.4%), the guy has never been an efficient scorer. For that very reason, that is why some of us knew he was a poor fit on this roster.

jbk1234 wrote:This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

Our three best shooters racked up a 7 for 27 performance from three. We had a bad shooting night. We didn't need to be taking more threes. This is just how the Knicks play defense-- pack the paint, give up 3s at the expense of protecting the rim, end possessions after one shot. Funny thing is, we shot better from 3 than the Knicks did! But they kept getting boards, and we didn't go to RoLo much to maximize our size.

... Or we were just sluggish because we flew into NYC on a Saturday and our best player grew up there, so maybe the team had a bit too much fun last night and paid for it today. (We are a much better home team than road team...)

JujitsuFlip wrote:

ijspeelman wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

LeVert is on an insane rough stretch. People are saying this is typical LeVert, but no this is the worst LeVert has ever looked in the league. He is shooting a putrid 49.5% TS% this year which is easily the worst of his career. I don't have much to say for him.

Those little middies he likes near the rim will not fall and he is really struggling to get in the lane and not making plays when he does. Hope he can bounce back to look at least like a role player.

The 49.5% isn't substantially lower than his career # (52.4%), the guy has never been an efficient scorer. For that very reason, that is why some of us knew he was a poor fit on this roster.

I'm pleased he's putting in the effort on defense, but LeVert has been a suboptimal fit on our roster since the day he arrived. He, Okoro, Stevens, and even Cedi, are all becoming too redundant in terms of skill sets and deficiencies. I can make a case for playing a couple of them in the rotation, but the offense is just too clunky with all of those guys.

Given the fact it's a contract year Caris, we should explore the option of trading him for a shooter. I feel like his pending free agency could become an issue in terms of minutes, touches, shots, etc.

jbk1234 wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

ijspeelman wrote:
LeVert is on an insane rough stretch. People are saying this is typical LeVert, but no this is the worst LeVert has ever looked in the league. He is shooting a putrid 49.5% TS% this year which is easily the worst of his career. I don't have much to say for him.

Those little middies he likes near the rim will not fall and he is really struggling to get in the lane and not making plays when he does. Hope he can bounce back to look at least like a role player.

The 49.5% isn't substantially lower than his career # (52.4%), the guy has never been an efficient scorer. For that very reason, that is why some of us knew he was a poor fit on this roster.

I'm pleased he's putting in the effort on defense, but LeVert has been a suboptimal fit on our roster since the day he arrived. He, Okoro, Stevens, and even Cedi, are all becoming too redundant in terms of skill sets and deficiencies. I can make a case for playing a couple of them in the rotation, but the offense is just too clunky with all of those guys.

Given the fact it's a contract year Caris, we should explore the option of trading him for a shooter. I feel like his pending free agency could become an issue in terms of minutes, touches, shots, etc.

It'll get even worse once Rubio gets back from injury and into the rotation. Something needs to be done about the lack of shooting. It's hard to trust Dean Wade to be consistently healthy anymore at this rate.

toooskies wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

Our three best shooters racked up a 7 for 27 performance from three. We had a bad shooting night. We didn't need to be taking more threes. This is just how the Knicks play defense-- pack the paint, give up 3s at the expense of protecting the rim, end possessions after one shot. Funny thing is, we shot better from 3 than the Knicks did! But they kept getting boards, and we didn't go to RoLo much to maximize our size.

... Or we were just sluggish because we flew into NYC on a Saturday and our best player grew up there, so maybe the team had a bit too much fun last night and paid for it today. (We are a much better home team than road team...)

Sorry, but we have too many poor shooters in the rotation. Teams help off of them because making those guys beat you is the smart play. It's a dynamic that goes back to last season and one that's not going change until the calculus for the opponent changes. Our team has too much talent to live or die with guys like LeVert, Stevens, Okoro, and Cedi making the opposing team pay for leaving them open.

toooskies wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

Our three best shooters racked up a 7 for 27 performance from three. We had a bad shooting night. We didn't need to be taking more threes. This is just how the Knicks play defense-- pack the paint, give up 3s at the expense of protecting the rim, end possessions after one shot. Funny thing is, we shot better from 3 than the Knicks did! But they kept getting boards, and we didn't go to RoLo much to maximize our size.

... Or we were just sluggish because we flew into NYC on a Saturday and our best player grew up there, so maybe the team had a bit too much fun last night and paid for it today. (We are a much better home team than road team...)

The second part is what I was thinking. I mean there's no way the Knicks should have won the game with all those turnovers and foul calls that went against them. Kept watching because I expected Garland or Mitchell to eventually find the range, but maybe they should have just run more stuff through Evan.

jbk1234 wrote:

toooskies wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

Our three best shooters racked up a 7 for 27 performance from three. We had a bad shooting night. We didn't need to be taking more threes. This is just how the Knicks play defense-- pack the paint, give up 3s at the expense of protecting the rim, end possessions after one shot. Funny thing is, we shot better from 3 than the Knicks did! But they kept getting boards, and we didn't go to RoLo much to maximize our size.

... Or we were just sluggish because we flew into NYC on a Saturday and our best player grew up there, so maybe the team had a bit too much fun last night and paid for it today. (We are a much better home team than road team...)

Sorry, but we have too many poor shooters in the rotation. Teams help off of them because making those guys beat you is the smart play. It's a dynamic that goes back to last season and one that's not going change until the calculus for the opponent changes. Our team has too much talent to live or die with guys like LeVert, Stevens, Okoro, and Cedi making the opposing team pay for leaving them open.

Heh, the Knicks helped way off Garland on one play, but at least he made them pay for that.

We have 3 shooters who can basically create a shot out of next to nothing in Garland, Mitchell, and Love and they shot a combined 7 for 27 from 3pt. Other than Osman who shot 1 for 3, nobody else took more than a single 3pter. Can't put the blame on Isaac, Lamar, Diakite, and Evan for missing a single 3pt attempt.

The Knicks somehow managed to shoot worse from 3pt than we did and tried hard to give this one away, but still won the game primarily due to rebounding.

There are ways to leverage players the defense is ignoring other than feeding them shots ... but JBB needs to let them know they can do more than stand in their pre-assigned spots.

And if JBB isn't going to do it, then Garland as the point-guard and Mitchell as the star should be directing the other guys.

jbk1234 wrote:

toooskies wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:This team needs more shooting in the rotation. We really shouldn't be a Wade injury and bad Cedi game away from a performance like this. Also, the league has figured out LeVert.

Our three best shooters racked up a 7 for 27 performance from three. We had a bad shooting night. We didn't need to be taking more threes. This is just how the Knicks play defense-- pack the paint, give up 3s at the expense of protecting the rim, end possessions after one shot. Funny thing is, we shot better from 3 than the Knicks did! But they kept getting boards, and we didn't go to RoLo much to maximize our size.

... Or we were just sluggish because we flew into NYC on a Saturday and our best player grew up there, so maybe the team had a bit too much fun last night and paid for it today. (We are a much better home team than road team...)

Sorry, but we have too many poor shooters in the rotation. Teams help off of them because making those guys beat you is the smart play. It's a dynamic that goes back to last season and one that's not going change until the calculus for the opponent changes. Our team has too much talent to live or die with guys like LeVert, Stevens, Okoro, and Cedi making the opposing team pay for leaving them open.

I'd like to hear your perspective on which teams DON'T have too many poor shooters in their rotation. The Knicks, for instance, had a total of zero guys last night who'd deserve more gravity than Cedi Osman.

It'd be nice to have seven or eight guys shooting 40% like the Suns have right now, but a lot of their guys are having outlier shooting seasons so far. And if we're going to find another shooter, it either has to come internally (Windler due back soon? Stevens's percentage is good so far, can he get to decent volume?) or we're going to have to give up something valuable or they're going to be awful at defense or have an awful contract.

Or maybe a scrap heap guy, like Carmelo Anthony? We have the roster spot.

toooskies wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

toooskies wrote:Our three best shooters racked up a 7 for 27 performance from three. We had a bad shooting night. We didn't need to be taking more threes. This is just how the Knicks play defense-- pack the paint, give up 3s at the expense of protecting the rim, end possessions after one shot. Funny thing is, we shot better from 3 than the Knicks did! But they kept getting boards, and we didn't go to RoLo much to maximize our size.

... Or we were just sluggish because we flew into NYC on a Saturday and our best player grew up there, so maybe the team had a bit too much fun last night and paid for it today. (We are a much better home team than road team...)

Sorry, but we have too many poor shooters in the rotation. Teams help off of them because making those guys beat you is the smart play. It's a dynamic that goes back to last season and one that's not going change until the calculus for the opponent changes. Our team has too much talent to live or die with guys like LeVert, Stevens, Okoro, and Cedi making the opposing team pay for leaving them open.

I'd like to hear your perspective on which teams DON'T have too many poor shooters in their rotation. The Knicks, for instance, had a total of zero guys last night who'd deserve more gravity than Cedi Osman.

It'd be nice to have seven or eight guys shooting 40% like the Suns have right now, but a lot of their guys are having outlier shooting seasons so far. And if we're going to find another shooter, it either has to come internally (Windler due back soon? Stevens's percentage is good so far, can he get to decent volume?) or we're going to have to give up something valuable or they're going to be awful at defense or have an awful contract.

Or maybe a scrap heap guy, like Carmelo Anthony? We have the roster spot.

Not to mention, the ability to shoot the 3 is not the same thing as having the ability to space the floor.

Fedor mentioned the Cavs haven't been moving the ball well on the road, but it's not like we didn't try. In a number of plays guys were attacking closeouts, trying to get in the paint, and dishing it back out; but unless they knock down those shots the defense isn't going to stop cheating.

I don't feel like DG is playing with as much control of the game as last year. A big part of that may be missing Allen from the lineup or maybe he's been hit in the head too many times, but he needs to grow as a PG and learn how to lead regardless of who he's on the floor with.

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

toooskies wrote:Our three best shooters racked up a 7 for 27 performance from three. We had a bad shooting night. We didn't need to be taking more threes. This is just how the Knicks play defense-- pack the paint, give up 3s at the expense of protecting the rim, end possessions after one shot. Funny thing is, we shot better from 3 than the Knicks did! But they kept getting boards, and we didn't go to RoLo much to maximize our size.

... Or we were just sluggish because we flew into NYC on a Saturday and our best player grew up there, so maybe the team had a bit too much fun last night and paid for it today. (We are a much better home team than road team...)

Sorry, but we have too many poor shooters in the rotation. Teams help off of them because making those guys beat you is the smart play. It's a dynamic that goes back to last season and one that's not going change until the calculus for the opponent changes. Our team has too much talent to live or die with guys like LeVert, Stevens, Okoro, and Cedi making the opposing team pay for leaving them open.

Heh, the Knicks helped way off Garland on one play, but at least he made them pay for that.

We have 3 shooters who can basically create a shot out of next to nothing in Garland, Mitchell, and Love and they shot a combined 7 for 27 from 3pt. Other than Osman who shot 1 for 3, nobody else took more than a single 3pter. Can't put the blame on Isaac, Lamar, Diakite, and Evan for missing a single 3pt attempt.

The Knicks somehow managed to shoot worse from 3pt than we did and tried hard to give this one away, but still won the game primarily due to rebounding.

There are ways to leverage players the defense is ignoring other than feeding them shots ... but JBB needs to let them know they can do more than stand in their pre-assigned spots.

And if JBB isn't going to do it, then Garland as the point-guard and Mitchell as the star should be directing the other guys.

Burks and Fournier are out there. The Cavs should make a run at one or both of them. There's a noticeable difference when Wade is on the floor, which apparently is something we can't rely upon, and when he's not.

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
Sorry, but we have too many poor shooters in the rotation. Teams help off of them because making those guys beat you is the smart play. It's a dynamic that goes back to last season and one that's not going change until the calculus for the opponent changes. Our team has too much talent to live or die with guys like LeVert, Stevens, Okoro, and Cedi making the opposing team pay for leaving them open.

Heh, the Knicks helped way off Garland on one play, but at least he made them pay for that.

We have 3 shooters who can basically create a shot out of next to nothing in Garland, Mitchell, and Love and they shot a combined 7 for 27 from 3pt. Other than Osman who shot 1 for 3, nobody else took more than a single 3pter. Can't put the blame on Isaac, Lamar, Diakite, and Evan for missing a single 3pt attempt.

The Knicks somehow managed to shoot worse from 3pt than we did and tried hard to give this one away, but still won the game primarily due to rebounding.

There are ways to leverage players the defense is ignoring other than feeding them shots ... but JBB needs to let them know they can do more than stand in their pre-assigned spots.

And if JBB isn't going to do it, then Garland as the point-guard and Mitchell as the star should be directing the other guys.

Burks and Fournier are out there. The Cavs should make a run at one or both of them. There's a noticeable difference when Wade is on the floor, which apparently is something we can't rely upon, and when he's not.

Burks plays for the Pistons.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Heh, the Knicks helped way off Garland on one play, but at least he made them pay for that.

We have 3 shooters who can basically create a shot out of next to nothing in Garland, Mitchell, and Love and they shot a combined 7 for 27 from 3pt. Other than Osman who shot 1 for 3, nobody else took more than a single 3pter. Can't put the blame on Isaac, Lamar, Diakite, and Evan for missing a single 3pt attempt.

The Knicks somehow managed to shoot worse from 3pt than we did and tried hard to give this one away, but still won the game primarily due to rebounding.

There are ways to leverage players the defense is ignoring other than feeding them shots ... but JBB needs to let them know they can do more than stand in their pre-assigned spots.

And if JBB isn't going to do it, then Garland as the point-guard and Mitchell as the star should be directing the other guys.

Burks and Fournier are out there. The Cavs should make a run at one or both of them. There's a noticeable difference when Wade is on the floor, which apparently is something we can't rely upon, and when he's not.

Burks plays for the Pistons.

I'm taking about buy-low trade opportunities.

JonFromVA wrote:I don't feel like DG is playing with as much control of the game as last year. A big part of that may be missing Allen from the lineup or maybe he's been hit in the head too many times, but he needs to grow as a PG and learn how to lead regardless of who he's on the floor with.

Or it might be the Cavs brought in a near 30 ppg scorer, so DG has the ball far less often...