Game 28: Cavs @ Spurs 12/12/2022

[ijspeelman]

Read on Twitter

Cannot watch tonight, but with Mitchell back I’m expecting a win. So don’t let me down lol

[jbk1234]

Stevens is a poor rebounder for his size. He doesn't position himself well, box out well, or get a quick read to the ball off of misses. It really limits his value in terms of ever becoming a glue guy.

Also, the Cavs, not JBB because the refs have tuned him out, but Altman needs to say something about how officials allow smaller players to negate the size advantage of Allen and Mobley. It's particularly egregious with Allen.

[toooskies]

Stevens is a poor rebounder for his size. He doesn't position himself well, box out well, or get a quick read to the ball off of misses. It really limits his value in terms of ever becoming a glue guy.

Also, the Cavs, not JBB because the refs have tuned him out, but Altman needs to say something about how officials allow smaller players to negate the size advantage of Allen and Mobley. It's particularly egregious with Allen.

Stevens is statistically only very slightly worse rebounding than Markkanen was last year, and Markkanen has 6 inches on Stevens.

[tundraknight]

Keldon Johnson would’ve been an absolute perfect fit at SF for the Cavaliers. They drafted Dylan Windler instead

[jbk1234]

The Cavs are good, but they're not good enough for coast for three quarters and try to turn it on in the fourth. That hole was too deep.

[afarmenian]

Right now is embarrassing to watch this team who has won not one thing act like they can just roll out of bed and beat teams on the road. Absolutely horrendous management of this team by JB and he better figure it out soon or this team needs to look for a better coach.

[JujitsuFlip]

Keldon Johnson would’ve been an absolute perfect fit at SF for the Cavaliers. They drafted Dylan Windler instead

Coulda had Keldon Johnson and Terence Mann. But that's what will happen when a team has 4 head coaches in a 16 month period, difficult to establish an identity.

[TheLand13]

Right now is embarrassing to watch this team who has won not one thing act like they can just roll out of bed and beat teams on the road. Absolutely horrendous management of this team by JB and he better figure it out soon or this team needs to look for a better coach.

I think it’s pretty laughable to blame JBB and act like this is on him. While not a great coach by any means, he’s done a good job of putting Garland and Allen in positions to develop, and he’s been able to put together a top ten offense despite the extreme limitations in terms of spacing.

Cleveland did not play to the fullest of their capabilities until it was halfway through the second period. That’s on the team, not him. Not to mention, Garland started out horribly and didn’t really gain any traction until that point. He’s gotta snap out of the funk.

[JujitsuFlip]

Strictly from the box, it seemed like Garland had a retro Kyrie game where the PG shoots ya outta the game.

[toooskies]

Yep. DG has been making some bad choices in shot selection of late. The whole team is in a shooting slump.

[JonFromVA]

Caris had a pretty good game and Mitchell was right back at it after getting to rest his leg. Kevin still hasn't been right since hurting his thumb.

Darius had a wide open 3pt attempt to win the game and missed and continues to miss way too many shots and turn the ball over carelessly.

JBB decided to play him over 15 straight minutes to close the game and while running the starters hard to try to win the game almost worked, they had to be exhausted by the end - albeit they got a nice long break due to coaches challenges.

Is there a method to the madness? Rolling the ball up the floor, playing at the slowest pace in the league?

Does JBB want to be able to play these guys 40+ minutes come playoff time? Is he so unconcerned that shooters need their legs? About injuries due to fatigue?

[JonFromVA]

Strictly from the box, it seemed like Garland had a retro Kyrie game where the PG shoots ya outta the game.

I wouldn't put it that way, but we beat most teams when Garland and Mitchell are hitting shots and not turning the ball over stupidly.

[ijspeelman]

I'm watching the game late so I'll add my takes.

1st Half

For one, based on the eye test and actually being able to stop and rewind the game, the Cavs didn't play like they should have been down by 16 at half.

We shot 15 threes and 11 of them were considered wide open. We shot 18% on those shots. Outside of two of these shots being from Okoro, all the other guys are above 36% career wide open shooters (most of them higher). That's some serious shot variability. For reference, the Spurs shot 13 threes. 2 of them were considered wide open (they actually shot 0/2 on these). On the 11 shots that were more contested, they shot 36.4%.

No stats for the following take, it was a serious theme that the Spurs were just making their contested shots. The amount of contested midrange makes were a bit stupid. So I think we honestly played good defense. I saw a few lapses, a pair of backdoors with Cedi and Mitchell guarding and Lamar Stevens zoning out and letting Richardson run and get set from three (he actually did well to get to the contest).

Lastly, I saw some take after the game that Garland shot us out of the first half. Outside of two shots they could cite (both happening around the 10 second shot clock mark), I think this is way overblown (contest fade away early in the second where he probably could have dribbled back out and a fade away three where Vassell closed out well). Did he shoot like ****? Yes. Was he taking bad shots? No.

Biggest weakness in the first was offensive rebounding. A lot of it seemed to be the guards + Cedi not making an effort to crash the paint or mark any cutters to the rim. Bassey kept charging in (at one point did foul Mitchell leading to an open dunk, but wasn't called), but Garland/Mitchell/LeVert/Cedi were not coming in after the Mobley/Allen/Love contests to help gather the rebound. We gave up 10 OREBs in the first.

2nd Half

Well this second half breakdown would be more interesting if I didn't feel like a lot of what happened in the first, happened in the second.

We shot many less threes in general (8 total in the 2nd half), but made a lot of baskets going downhill. I still think we defended incredibly well, but they were making their contested shots (mainly from midrange). On the evening, the Spurs shot 50% on tight coverage.

Overall

Personally, we 100% played better than the Spurs and still lost. Disagree with me or not, but its hard for me to be upset with the loss.

Loved the playmaking and play finishing by Mobley. LeVert had a great offensive generation game and also made his contested middies he likes at a high clip. Garland had a rough shooting night, but I do not think he shot us out of the game (lowered his own volume considerably in the second half as well). Everyone had a rough shooting night from three.

Side note, I put zero stake in clutch stats. You do not have to be clutch to be a winning player or team. I understand that everyone is calling out Garland specifically right now for missing his wide open three. "You've got to make that" Those 10 seconds do not equal out to the 2870 seconds we had to make one more basket or get one more stop.

[JonFromVA]

*snip*

Side note, I put zero stake in clutch stats. You do not have to be clutch to be a winning player or team. I understand that everyone is calling out Garland specifically right now for missing his wide open three. "You've got to make that" Those 10 seconds do not equal out to the 2870 seconds we had to make one more basket or get one more stop.

Terrific recap, except I do put stake in clutch stats and I don't equate all minutes in a game; but shooters do need their legs.

[ijspeelman]

*snip*

Side note, I put zero stake in clutch stats. You do not have to be clutch to be a winning player or team. I understand that everyone is calling out Garland specifically right now for missing his wide open three. "You've got to make that" Those 10 seconds do not equal out to the 2870 seconds we had to make one more basket or get one more stop.

Terrific recap, except I do put stake in clutch stats and I don't equate all minutes in a game; but shooters do need their legs.

The math actually supports that the earlier the bucket, the more important.

There are many teams in history that have won the whole thing without being clutch, for example the 2007-08 Celtics were not a good clutch team statistically, especially in the playoffs, but still won out.

Basically, its better to be good early and not as good to have to rely on clutch shooting to win you games.

I'm not trying to shake anyone's opinion on this, but just letting you know my bias is that being clutch is not very important to me.

[JonFromVA]

*snip*

Side note, I put zero stake in clutch stats. You do not have to be clutch to be a winning player or team. I understand that everyone is calling out Garland specifically right now for missing his wide open three. "You've got to make that" Those 10 seconds do not equal out to the 2870 seconds we had to make one more basket or get one more stop.

Terrific recap, except I do put stake in clutch stats and I don't equate all minutes in a game; but shooters do need their legs.

The math actually supports that the earlier the bucket, the more important.

There are many teams in history that have won the whole thing without being clutch, for example the 2007-08 Celtics were not a good clutch team statistically, especially in the playoffs, but still won out.

Basically, its better to be good early and not as good to have to rely on clutch shooting to win you games.

I'm not trying to shake anyone's opinion on this, but just letting you know my bias is that being clutch is not very important to me.

It's also better to have the refs at your back given they are one of the reasons that games tend to see-saw.

[JonFromVA]

I'd also add that being clutch isn't just about whether a player can make a big shot at the buzzer, but also stuff like can you impose your will when it matters on both ends of the floor.

LeBron scored a lot of points in "clutch time" back in his Cavs days, but more than that he would try to take control of the game earlier in the 4th quarter and if he did, he had quite the knack for strangling out the opponent by playing that lead against the clock.

It's something you see these Cavs try to do, but LeBron could get a key basket or draw a foul to keep the Cavs in the lead. He didn't just settle for jumpers.

That Mobley hook shot in the paint seems likely to become something we can count on for clutch points if he tightens up his handle.

[ijspeelman]

I'd also add that being clutch isn't just about whether a player can make a big shot at the buzzer, but also stuff like can you impose your will when it matters on both ends of the floor.

LeBron scored a lot of points in "clutch time" back in his Cavs days, but more than that he would try to take control of the game earlier in the 4th quarter and if he did, he had quite the knack for strangling out the opponent by playing that lead against the clock.

It's something you see these Cavs try to do, but LeBron could get a key basket or draw a foul to keep the Cavs in the lead. He didn't just settle for jumpers.

That Mobley hook shot in the paint seems likely to become something we can count on for clutch points if he tightens up his handle.

I get what you are saying, but I just don't separate clutch play from any other play where the game is able to be won or loss. The first possession is just as important (if not more important) than the last.

[JonFromVA]

I'd also add that being clutch isn't just about whether a player can make a big shot at the buzzer, but also stuff like can you impose your will when it matters on both ends of the floor.

LeBron scored a lot of points in "clutch time" back in his Cavs days, but more than that he would try to take control of the game earlier in the 4th quarter and if he did, he had quite the knack for strangling out the opponent by playing that lead against the clock.

It's something you see these Cavs try to do, but LeBron could get a key basket or draw a foul to keep the Cavs in the lead. He didn't just settle for jumpers.

That Mobley hook shot in the paint seems likely to become something we can count on for clutch points if he tightens up his handle.

I get what you are saying, but I just don't separate clutch play from any other play where the game is able to be won or loss. The first possession is just as important (if not more important) than the last.

I realize that and I also realize you're not alone in that belief; but everything about the game is governed by player and referee attitude as well as by fatigue level and I was just giving you an example of how LeBron's attitude made him statistically very "clutch" almost every season he played for us.

I mean, this isn't even about math so much as psychology.

Because LeBron typically reserved his energy hoping his teammates would get going and he could spend 4th quarter resting, he had more energy to spend at the end of close games when opponents were tiring and getting in foul trouble; so his scoring and efficiency skyrocketed.

If he chose to spend every minute playing 100% ala Russell Westbrook, we'd likely have seen a more inconsistent outcome - like we see with Westbrook.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'd also add that being clutch isn't just about whether a player can make a big shot at the buzzer, but also stuff like can you impose your will when it matters on both ends of the floor.

LeBron scored a lot of points in "clutch time" back in his Cavs days, but more than that he would try to take control of the game earlier in the 4th quarter and if he did, he had quite the knack for strangling out the opponent by playing that lead against the clock.

It's something you see these Cavs try to do, but LeBron could get a key basket or draw a foul to keep the Cavs in the lead. He didn't just settle for jumpers.

That Mobley hook shot in the paint seems likely to become something we can count on for clutch points if he tightens up his handle.

I get what you are saying, but I just don't separate clutch play from any other play where the game is able to be won or loss. The first possession is just as important (if not more important) than the last.

I realize that and I also realize you're not alone in that belief; but everything about the game is governed by player and referee attitude as well as by fatigue level and I was just giving you an example of how LeBron's attitude made him statistically very "clutch" almost every season he played for us.

I mean, this isn't even about math so much as psychology.

Because LeBron typically reserved his energy hoping his teammates would get going and he could spend 4th quarter resting, he had more energy to spend at the end of close games when opponents were tiring and getting in foul trouble; so his scoring and efficiency skyrocketed.

If he chose to spend every minute playing 100% ala Russell Westbrook, we'd likely have seen a more inconsistent outcome - like we see with Westbrook.

It can be about genetics/biology though, the guy was 6'8" 250 lbs, so not settling for jumpers becomes a lot easier.