Game 36: Cavs @ Pacers 12/29/2022

Post #1 » by **ijspeelman** » Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:31 pm

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Checking in!

Post #2 » by **ijspeelman** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:20 am

No Cedi tonight… so our spacing will be suspect

JujitsuFlip · Post #3 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:25 am

I didn't even know they were playing tonight.

jasonxxx102 · Post #4 » by **jasonxxx102** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:08 am

Levert sucks. Don’t know why this guy is in a closing lineup

JujitsuFlip · Post #5 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:00 am

Carlisle plays 10 guys and go figure, the 4 big wings torch the Cavs, color me unsurprised.

JonFromVA · Post #6 » by **JonFromVA** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:13 am

Little taste of playoff game planning with Carlisle/Pierce picking on Garland's defense. LeVert got off to a solid start, so no big surprise he was in at the end with Cedi out.

Post #7 » by **ijspeelman** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:16 am

If teams could stop shooting over 60% from three against us that’s be great.

JujitsuFlip · Post #8 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:36 am

ijspeelman wrote:If teams could stop shooting over 60% from three against us that’s be great.

It has to be schematic.

TheLand13 · Post #9 » by **TheLand13** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:56 am

I don’t know why Stevens is back in the starting lineup, but we need to take him out. Okoro is a far better one on one defender and I feel like that’s what we need more of right now at the perimeter.

And yes, as someone else pointed out, I don’t know why teams are magically so good from deep against us, but it’s incredibly frustrating to watch. Cleveland for the most part played good defense tonight. But these teams just can’t miss when they go up against us.

Post #10 » by **ijspeelman** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:22 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:If teams could stop shooting over 60% from three against us that’s be great.
It has to be schematic.

I don’t think I agree based on the types of threes we are giving up. I get that three teams have shot way above their efficiency recently, but I don’t think it’s something we can control as much.

JujitsuFlip · Post #11 » by **JujitsuFlip** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:01 pm

ijspeelman wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:If teams could stop shooting over 60% from three against us that’s be great.
It has to be schematic.

I don’t think I agree based on the types of threes we are giving up. I get that three teams have shot way above their efficiency recently, but I don’t think it’s something we can control as much.

If it's not scheme, then it has to be personnel.

I don't really believe in coincidence, when it comes to stuff like that.

KuruptedCav · Post #12 » by **KuruptedCav** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:15 pm

This team looks tired. I understand the performance drop-off from LeVert to Neto and Love to Isaiah Mobley or Mamadi Diakite; but give them a little burn. It’s okay to lose the game to win the war. Need to keep the team healthy. Even Milwaukee gives Thannis some burn when the injuries pile up.

1) 1/3 of the roster was unavailable due to injury. The bigger wings in Wade and Osman being out hurt.

2) I applaud JBB not ramping up Love’s minutes in an attempt to close the gap and getting him injured too.

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Post #13 » by **ijspeelman** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 4:14 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
ijspeelman wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:It has to be schematic.

I don’t think I agree based on the types of threes we are giving up. I get that three teams have shot way above their efficiency recently, but I don’t think it’s something we can control as much.
If it's not scheme, then it has to be personnel.

I don't really believe in coincidence, when it comes to stuff like that.

60% three point is completely unsustainable for any team through a large sample even if given completely wide open looks every night. We have not been giving up completely horrible looks.

For example, the Pacers shoot 22.3 wide open threes on average per night (which is pretty high) and shoot at 40.1%. Yesterday, they shot 19 and hit at 68.4%. On open threes, they normally shoot 14.7 on 35.4%. Last night, we gave up 10 and they shot 50.0%.

To me, this is not a schematic problem inherently. We are actually giving up less threes to them on average, but they are hitting them at a wild percentage. To me, this is shooting luck and we just happen to be on the wrong side of it for three games now.

Post #14 » by **jbk1234** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:54 am

The Pacers have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to shooting.

Post #15 » by **ijspeelman** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:12 am

jbk1234 wrote:The Pacers have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to shooting.

I was watching the game with a Pacers fan and just kept saying how the only guy I was comfortable shooting was Oshae.

Whereas our best spacing lineup we had out was Garland LeVert Okoro Love Mobley.

Post #16 » by **jbk1234** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:24 am

ijspeelman wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Pacers have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to shooting.

I was watching the game with a Pacers fan and just kept saying how the only guy I was comfortable shooting was Oshae.

Whereas our best spacing lineup we had out was Garland LeVert Okoro Love Mobley.

Haliburton is shooting 40% from 3. Heild is even better. Nesmith is finally coming on. Turner is one of the best three point shooting centers in the NBA.

The fact that you're including LeVert and Mobley in our best shooting lineup says a lot.

JonFromVA · Post #17 » by **JonFromVA** » Sun Jan 1, 2023 9:59 am

The wide open shot numbers being thrown around lately don't take in to account our slow pace and who's taking the shots. The contested shot numbers don't know the difference between a hand up in time to make a difference .vs. a moment too late to have any affect.

And when our defense is working well, we seem to get opponents out of sorts and they miss shots. Minor injuries may be contributing or maybe opponents are adjusting to us - but I do believe we make our own luck.

Post #18 » by **ijspeelman** » Sun Jan 1, 2023 5:42 pm

JonFromVA wrote:The wide open shot numbers being thrown around lately don't take in to account our slow pace and who's taking the shots. The contested shot numbers don't know the difference between a hand up in time to make a difference .vs. a moment too late to have any affect.

And when our defense is working well, we seem to get opponents out of sorts and they miss shots. Minor injuries may be contributing or maybe opponents are adjusting to us - but I do believe we make our own luck.

I think you are right about making our own luck, but I think its a mix of good defense and shooting luck. I usually throw these out if I think we didn't defend the perimeter particularly poorly (though I'll admit for this Pacers game, I was too in the heat of the moment being their live and have no idea if they did or didn't).

I'll also admit I haven't thought about the low pace and how that impacts how many shot relatively are put up.

JonFromVA · Post #19 » by **JonFromVA** » Mon Jan 2, 2023 6:11 pm

ijspeelman wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:The wide open shot numbers being thrown around lately don't take in to account our slow pace and who's taking the shots. The contested shot numbers don't know the difference between a hand up in time to make a difference .vs. a moment too late to have any affect.

And when our defense is working well, we seem to get opponents out of sorts and they miss shots. Minor injuries may be contributing or maybe opponents are adjusting to us - but I do believe we make our own luck.

I think you are right about making our own luck, but I think its a mix of good defense and shooting luck. I usually throw these out if I think we didn't defend the perimeter particularly poorly (though I'll admit for this Pacers game, I was too in the heat of the moment being their live and have no idea if they did or didn't).

I'll also admit I haven't thought about the low pace and how that impacts how many shot relatively are put up.

And just to be a little more specific, but leaving open a lousy shooter is a strategy every coach has picked up on. So wide open shots need to be further divided by encouraged shots .vs. defensive breakdowns.

Also tired legs are a top candidate for a coaches best "adjustment" to slowing a team that starts out hitting all their shots.