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Been working on my sleep schedule so no way I can watch more than a quarter of this game today lol. I'll watch the rest tomorrow

Bad news is Fox is in fact returning tonight. I expect that Kings offense to light up the Cavaliers like they have in the past.

The good news is that with the improved offensive personal the Cavaliers have, I expect us to do the same in return.

Iwasawitness wrote:Bad news is Fox is in fact returning tonight. I expect that Kings offense to light up the Cavaliers like they have in the past.

The good news is that with the improved offensive personal the Cavaliers have, I expect us to do the same in return.

Lets hope. We haven't really seen the Cavs offense fully click in any game this season so this is a good a time as any

ijspeelman wrote:

Iwasawitness wrote:Bad news is Fox is in fact returning tonight. I expect that Kings offense to light up the Cavaliers like they have in the past.

The good news is that with the improved offensive personal the Cavaliers have, I expect us to do the same in return.

Lets hope. We haven't really seen the Cavs offense fully click in any game this season so this is a good a time as any

Well so far it looks like everyone but Mitchell is looking good. Donovan's shot has been off these past few games after a terrific start to the season. Hopefully he snaps out of it. My fantasy team can't take much more of this.

Hey goofball JB, you're losing by 20, pull your guys. You're on a West Coast road trip.

It is REALLY bad when coaches like Thibs and Mike Brown have figured out ya gotta go deeper into your bench and not run guys into the ground. JB over here has his head in the sand.

Game is outta reach, pull the plug!

A new coach would truly work wonders for this squad.

JujitsuFlip wrote:Hey goofball JB, you're losing by 20, pull your guys. You're on a West Coast road trip.

It is REALLY bad when coaches like Thibs and Mike Brown have figured out ya gotta go deeper into your bench and not run guys into the ground. JB over here has his head in the sand.

Game is outta reach, pull the plug!

A new coach would truly work wonders for this squad.

For me after that knicks series it's not even can another coach do better. It's thinking man howcan another coach do worse when you look at the performance in pressure games. Postseason playin the body of work. You had proven championship winning coaches on the market. The downside was minimal and upside tremendous and they choose status quo.

I maintained since early last year that people were drastically overrating the cavs defense. They played a slow grind it out pace that won some games and got figured out in the playoffs when everyone starts playing methodically. Now you see the offense try to play with tempo and the defense is exposed for what it is

afarmenian wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:Hey goofball JB, you're losing by 20, pull your guys. You're on a West Coast road trip.

It is REALLY bad when coaches like Thibs and Mike Brown have figured out ya gotta go deeper into your bench and not run guys into the ground. JB over here has his head in the sand.

Game is outta reach, pull the plug!

A new coach would truly work wonders for this squad.

For me after that knicks series it's not even can another coach do better. It's thinking man how much worse can another coach do when you look at the performance in pressure games. Postseason playin the body of work. You had proven championship winning coaches on the market. The downside was minimal and upside tremendous and they choose status quo.

Ya gotta get Bernie Bickerstaff outta the front office, it's a conflict of interest.

Send JB and his dad packing, we're good, those 2 guys are perpetual losers. Their coaching philosophy sucks for teams trying to contend.

The fans are done with the Bickerstaffs in CLE, cut the cord, adios.

I'm not overly concerned, yet, and Okoro being out hurt in this one, but if we get to the halfway point on the season and we're still struggling, someone has to be held responsible.

jbk1234 wrote:I'm not overly concerned, yet, and Okoro being out hurt in this one, but if we get to the halfway point on the season and we're still struggling, someone has to be held responsible.

It's too late at that point. You're giving the new or interim coach no time to implement anything.

The stakes are far too high this season to be fooling around with JB any longer.

Can't wait until January 27th to maybe fire JB, just rip off the bandaid and salvage the season.

I had no problems with the Cavs' offense. I saw a lot of good movement and next-pass plays, we just fumbled a few balls. 120 points on 91 shots is fine. Strus is growing on me as a guy that never stops moving on the court and he's making the offense flow.

The Kings were lighting us up from three, but they were also 29/41 from two. Malik Monk had as many blocks as the entire Cavs team. They're a really good offense and one that shows what spacing feels like when it's working. Don't know where the Cavs' defense was tonight. (This is what having Garland or Mitchell guard the point of attack looks like, let's just hope they can improve.)

Dean Wade goes from JYD to the opposite of that with 0 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist in 13 minutes and a +/- of -18.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:I'm not overly concerned, yet, and Okoro being out hurt in this one, but if we get to the halfway point on the season and we're still struggling, someone has to be held responsible.

It's too late at that point. You're giving the new or interim coach no time to implement anything.

The stakes are far too high this season to be fooling around with JB any longer.

Can't wait until January 27th to maybe fire JB, just rip off the bandaid and salvage the season.

It's hard to bring in anything other than an interim coach during the season unless the guy we want is already is on staff. West coast trips are often brutal and the two Warriors wins are to JBB's credit.

Minimally, I'd start a 20 game clock on him starting roughly from the point he had a complete starting lineup, which would keep him in his job until at least game 26 on Dec 20th.

Realistically, unless someone internally gets upset with the way things are going there's a fair chance a decision won't be made until after the season when we can have a full appraisal and can transition cleanly to a new coach.

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:I'm not overly concerned, yet, and Okoro being out hurt in this one, but if we get to the halfway point on the season and we're still struggling, someone has to be held responsible.

It's too late at that point. You're giving the new or interim coach no time to implement anything.

The stakes are far too high this season to be fooling around with JB any longer.

Can't wait until January 27th to maybe fire JB, just rip off the bandaid and salvage the season.

It's hard to bring in anything other than an interim coach during the season unless the guy we want is already is on staff. West coast trips are often brutal and the two Warriors wins are to JBB's credit.

Minimally, I'd start a 20 game clock on him starting roughly from the point he had a complete starting lineup, which would keep him in his job until at least game 26 on Dec 20th.

Realistically, unless someone internally gets upset with the way things are going there's a fair chance a decision won't be made until after the season when we can have a full appraisal and can transition cleanly to a new coach.

What a waste of Mitchell's final season in CLE that would be.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:It's too late at that point. You're giving the new or interim coach no time to implement anything.

The stakes are far too high this season to be fooling around with JB any longer.

Can't wait until January 27th to maybe fire JB, just rip off the bandaid and salvage the season.

It's hard to bring in anything other than an interim coach during the season unless the guy we want is already is on staff. West coast trips are often brutal and the two Warriors wins are to JBB's credit.

Minimally, I'd start a 20 game clock on him starting roughly from the point he had a complete starting lineup, which would keep him in his job until at least game 26 on Dec 20th.

Realistically, unless someone internally gets upset with the way things are going there's a fair chance a decision won't be made until after the season when we can have a full appraisal and can transition cleanly to a new coach.

What a waste of Mitchell's final season in CLE that would be.

Firing JBB isn't the end goal, it's to improve the team and make it a place Mitchell and others want to play. If everyone wants to be playing at a faster pace there's going to be some patience for continuing to try doing so. If we want to go back to playing at a slow pace with a grind it out on defense approach, we already have the right coach for that.

If what we need is someone to come in and throw away the playbook, simplify everything we're doing, and empower the players; we can find a new coach in season to do that.

If we need someone who's played in the NBA who knows how to draw up plays out of timeout, we can probably find that too.

toooskies wrote:I had no problems with the Cavs' offense. I saw a lot of good movement and next-pass plays, we just fumbled a few balls. 120 points on 91 shots is fine. Strus is growing on me as a guy that never stops moving on the court and he's making the offense flow.

The Kings were lighting us up from three, but they were also 29/41 from two. Malik Monk had as many blocks as the entire Cavs team. They're a really good offense and one that shows what spacing feels like when it's working. Don't know where the Cavs' defense was tonight. (This is what having Garland or Mitchell guard the point of attack looks like, let's just hope they can improve.)

Dean Wade goes from JYD to the opposite of that with 0 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist in 13 minutes and a +/- of -18.

I actually think Sabonis getting gifted calls early in the game, when he was committing offensive fouls, really impacted how we defended. The Cavs rarely, if ever, should have to double another big but Allen and Mobley kept getting dubious calls. I'm convinced JBB should burn a challenge in the first half when Allen and/or Mobley getting in foul trouble early really alters how we play.

One of the assistant coaches said at halftime we needed to close down the paint and I remember think that was unlikely to work with Huerter, Murray, and/or Monk already starting to cook. As far as +/- and Wade, it was a rough night across the board, Allen was -25, and some of the lineups were head scratchers. I feel like Wade is another guy who is getting rough treatment from the officials. He's getting whistled too often when he's in legal guarding position and the offensive player is initiating the contact.

It's kind of wild because TT and Niang are a lot more physical defensively, but often times get away with fouling when the offensive player bounces off them after lowering a shoulder. I don't know what, if anything, the Cavs as an organization can do about the officials negating their height advantage, and we're talented enough to overcome it on some nights, but it's a problem.

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
It's hard to bring in anything other than an interim coach during the season unless the guy we want is already is on staff. West coast trips are often brutal and the two Warriors wins are to JBB's credit.

Minimally, I'd start a 20 game clock on him starting roughly from the point he had a complete starting lineup, which would keep him in his job until at least game 26 on Dec 20th.

Realistically, unless someone internally gets upset with the way things are going there's a fair chance a decision won't be made until after the season when we can have a full appraisal and can transition cleanly to a new coach.

What a waste of Mitchell's final season in CLE that would be.

Firing JBB isn't the end goal, it's to improve the team and make it a place Mitchell and others want to play. If everyone wants to be playing at a faster pace there's going to be some patience for continuing to try doing so. If we want to go back to playing at a slow pace with a grind it out on defense approach, we already have the right coach for that.

If what we need is someone to come in and throw away the playbook, simplify everything we're doing, and empower the players; we can find a new coach in season to do that.

If we need someone who's played in the NBA who knows how to draw up plays out of timeout, we can probably find that too.

I'm not acting like I know who the right replacement coach is, i just know JB isn't that guy.

Our defense fell off a cliff. I was fine with not being #1 DEF in the league, if it meant better offense. Not just completely disregarding it all together.

Cavs are still 25th in the league in pace, they can't be playing THAT fast.

If our goal is ro outscore everyone, we don't have the right pieces to do that, currently.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:What a waste of Mitchell's final season in CLE that would be.

Firing JBB isn't the end goal, it's to improve the team and make it a place Mitchell and others want to play. If everyone wants to be playing at a faster pace there's going to be some patience for continuing to try doing so. If we want to go back to playing at a slow pace with a grind it out on defense approach, we already have the right coach for that.

If what we need is someone to come in and throw away the playbook, simplify everything we're doing, and empower the players; we can find a new coach in season to do that.

If we need someone who's played in the NBA who knows how to draw up plays out of timeout, we can probably find that too.

I'm not acting like I know who the right replacement coach is, i just know JB isn't that guy.

Our defense fell off a cliff. I was fine with not being #1 DEF in the league, if it meant better offense. Not just completely disregarding it all together.

Cavs are still 25th in the league in pace, they can't be playing THAT fast.

If our goal is ro outscore everyone, we don't have the right pieces to do that, currently.

Change can be hard even when you have your full roster for training camp and most of the season. Heck, while I like what I've seen from Strus, I consider starting at him at SF to be an experiment. So is increasing the pace.

We're approaching the two week mark where we've been able to play our starting lineup, that's often an evaluation point for determining if we should try some other combination.

I'm certainly not opposed to the team firing JBB, I'm just trying to look at the realities of the situation, the timing, the signs, etc. If we do fire JBB, we need to make sure we can find someone better (even if it's just interim) to replace him - or else why bother?

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Firing JBB isn't the end goal, it's to improve the team and make it a place Mitchell and others want to play. If everyone wants to be playing at a faster pace there's going to be some patience for continuing to try doing so. If we want to go back to playing at a slow pace with a grind it out on defense approach, we already have the right coach for that.

If what we need is someone to come in and throw away the playbook, simplify everything we're doing, and empower the players; we can find a new coach in season to do that.

If we need someone who's played in the NBA who knows how to draw up plays out of timeout, we can probably find that too.

I'm not acting like I know who the right replacement coach is, i just know JB isn't that guy.

Our defense fell off a cliff. I was fine with not being #1 DEF in the league, if it meant better offense. Not just completely disregarding it all together.

Cavs are still 25th in the league in pace, they can't be playing THAT fast.

If our goal is ro outscore everyone, we don't have the right pieces to do that, currently.

Change can be hard even when you have your full roster for training camp and most of the season. Heck, while I like what I've seen from Strus, I consider starting at him at SF to be an experiment. So is increasing the pace.

We're approaching the two week mark where we've been able to play our starting lineup, that's often an evaluation point for determining if we should try some other combination.

I'm certainly not opposed to the team firing JBB, I'm just trying to look at the realities of the situation, the timing, the signs, etc. If we do fire JBB, we need to make sure we can find someone better (even if it's just interim) to replace him - or else why bother?

I don't think starting Strus is experimental, that was the plan all along, whole reason they got him.

Anyone has to be better than JB, like honestly.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm not acting like I know who the right replacement coach is, i just know JB isn't that guy.

Our defense fell off a cliff. I was fine with not being #1 DEF in the league, if it meant better offense. Not just completely disregarding it all together.

Cavs are still 25th in the league in pace, they can't be playing THAT fast.

If our goal is ro outscore everyone, we don't have the right pieces to do that, currently.

Change can be hard even when you have your full roster for training camp and most of the season. Heck, while I like what I've seen from Strus, I consider starting at him at SF to be an experiment. So is increasing the pace.

We're approaching the two week mark where we've been able to play our starting lineup, that's often an evaluation point for determining if we should try some other combination.

I'm certainly not opposed to the team firing JBB, I'm just trying to look at the realities of the situation, the timing, the signs, etc. If we do fire JBB, we need to make sure we can find someone better (even if it's just interim) to replace him - or else why bother?

I don't think starting Strus is experimental, that was the plan all along, whole reason they got him.

Anyone has to be better than this guy, like honestly.

Any plan or move that hasn't already been shown it will work is an experiment. Whether anything will make the Cavs back out of their decision to start Strus is tbd, but generally lineups are evaluated based on 2 week intervals.

As of today according to BBR, our Core 4 with Strus are -3.2 PP100 .vs. +6.8 with Isaac or +16.2 with LeVert last year.

You just want to be sure the other 4 guys are playing up to snuff before assuming the new guy is the problem.

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Change can be hard even when you have your full roster for training camp and most of the season. Heck, while I like what I've seen from Strus, I consider starting at him at SF to be an experiment. So is increasing the pace.

We're approaching the two week mark where we've been able to play our starting lineup, that's often an evaluation point for determining if we should try some other combination.

I'm certainly not opposed to the team firing JBB, I'm just trying to look at the realities of the situation, the timing, the signs, etc. If we do fire JBB, we need to make sure we can find someone better (even if it's just interim) to replace him - or else why bother?

I don't think starting Strus is experimental, that was the plan all along, whole reason they got him.

Anyone has to be better than this guy, like honestly.

Any plan or move that hasn't already been shown it will work is an experiment. Whether anything will make the Cavs back out of their decision to start Strus is tbd, but generally lineups are evaluated based on 2 week intervals.

As of today according to BBR, our Core 4 with Strus are -3.2 PP100 .vs. +6.8 with Isaac or +16.2 with LeVert last year.

You just want to be sure the other 4 guys are playing up to snuff before assuming the new guy is the problem.

Yeah, gonna need more than 60 minutes together to determine that Okoro should be gifted the SF spot again.

I'd still fire JB first before i just glue Strus and Niang to the bench but that's just me.

JujitsuFlip wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:I don't think starting Strus is experimental, that was the plan all along, whole reason they got him.

Anyone has to be better than this guy, like honestly.

Any plan or move that hasn't already been shown it will work is an experiment. Whether anything will make the Cavs back out of their decision to start Strus is tbd, but generally lineups are evaluated based on 2 week intervals.

As of today according to BBR, our Core 4 with Strus are -3.2 PP100 .vs. +6.8 with Isaac or +16.2 with LeVert last year.

You just want to be sure the other 4 guys are playing up to snuff before assuming the new guy is the problem.

Yeah, gonna need more than 60 minutes together to determine that Okoro should be gifted the SF spot again.

I'd still fire JB first before i just glue Strus and Niang to the bench but that's just me.

I just wouldn't call it gifting ... Isaac fills a useful role when he plays starting SF even if the only thing he's doing is expending energy guarding a tough PG or SG and sparing Garland or Mitchell that effort so they can burn their energy on offense.

Heck, Isaac could play the first 5 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters just to help set the tone and there'd still be 38 more minutes to go around.