RealGM

there is a lid on the rim at the moment... but there have been some odd missteps by everyone tonight

Garland dribbling around in a circle only to pull it back and dribble more is getting super old. That's the difference between him and Mitchell. Mitchell makes his move and shoots or passes

afarmenian wrote:Garland dribbling around in a circle only to pull it back and dribble more is getting super old. That's the difference between him and Mitchell. Mitchell makes his move and shoots or passes

IMO one of Garland's positive traits is his ability to extend his dribble especially if he gets in the paint and doesn't have a shot/pass. I don't know which play you are referring to tho

ijspeelman wrote:

afarmenian wrote:Garland dribbling around in a circle only to pull it back and dribble more is getting super old. That's the difference between him and Mitchell. Mitchell makes his move and shoots or passes

IMO one of Garland's positive traits is his ability to extend his dribble especially if he gets in the paint and doesn't have a shot/pass. I don't know which play you are referring to tho

Several plays today....how is dribbling around the court 15 seconds a positive trait? It's completely unessessary with other playmakers on the court

Wade is having himself a game on both ends

Even against this injury-ridden Grizzlies game, when Allen went down it felt like we didn't have an answer for Jackson, who had our number all night.

Wade played some great one-on-one defense on Jackson that allowed others to stand pat and not allow easy shots.

Not a good game by any means, but I'll take my positives where I can get'em

I don't know why it is that I can always tell when Allen needs a break almost immediately, and JBB leaves him out there at least another 4 minutes after I see it.

afarmenian wrote:

ijspeelman wrote:

afarmenian wrote:Garland dribbling around in a circle only to pull it back and dribble more is getting super old. That's the difference between him and Mitchell. Mitchell makes his move and shoots or passes

IMO one of Garland's positive traits is his ability to extend his dribble especially if he gets in the paint and doesn't have a shot/pass. I don't know which play you are referring to tho

Several plays today....how is dribbling around the court 15 seconds a positive trait? It's completely unessessary with other playmakers on the court

A couple thoughts: (1) Garland just got back and they basically implemented a completely different offense when he was out. Maybe give him a minute. (2) We're not peak Spurs in terms of personnel. Ball and player movement is great, but when good defensive teams adjust to it, you'll be glad we have a guy like Garland who can take what the defense is giving.

Wonderful a Jarrett Allen ankle injury, just what the Cavs needed... Not!

JujitsuFlip wrote:Wonderful a Jarrett Allen ankle injury, just what the Cavs needed... Not!

At least the all star break is coming up.

ijspeelman wrote:Even against this injury-ridden Grizzlies game, when Allen went down it felt like we didn't have an answer for Jackson, who had our number all night.

Wade played some great one-on-one defense on Jackson that allowed others to stand pat and not allow easy shots.

Not a good game by any means, but I'll take my positives where I can get'em

Jackson actually cut the lead to just 2 with 2 minutes by backing down Wade with Caris helping and Strus otw. They went to him again after the Cavs scored. Wade forced him in a clumsy fall away hook (think he was trying to draw a foul) and he missed and they didn't bother to go to him again. Wade scored all of 6 points, and still finished with a team high +19.

I wasn't expecting much from Garland on the second night of a back to back and we didn't get much, but could have been worse.

If you had some time on your hands, I'd ask you to take a closer look at the times our ball movement worked and why. In other words, was it because our spacing worked, Don drove, the defense collapsed and we started rotating the ball? Or stupid defensive mistakes? Or well placed screens? Crazy shot making?

One thing that worries me is how much of it was due to Tristan setting legit screens and/or the action of other guys who are likely going to be out of the rotation with Garland and Mobley back. Certainly it wasn't Tristan's shooting or floor spacing.

For instance, while CPJ has a on-off of -2.1 for the season so far, he's been part of our highest rated offensive unit (1.60 pp100) along with Merrill-LeVert-Niang-Thompson albeit for just 44 minutes. He was also part of an unit with a 1.29 offensive rating with Str
us-Okoro-Wade-Allen that played 60 minutes.

I have no doubt JBB will spend the rest of the season trying to get the rotations he likes working better, but these other units which have worked while Garland and Mobley were out may hold some answers for the future.

At least he's convinced himself he needs to find minutes for the hottest shooter in the league, so I guess that's something. Whether he can figure out why that was working so well and get different players to figure out is a big, tbd. I don't recall who said it, but the gist of it was that setting screens for Sam had become contagious because of his shooting. Everyone just wanted to see if they couldn't free him up and get him a good look. The important point (and one I've made over the years) is that it's not enough to have a movement shooter if the other guys aren't setting screens, passing the ball at the right time, and avoiding set patterns the defense can predict.

jbk1234 wrote:

JujitsuFlip wrote:Wonderful a Jarrett Allen ankle injury, just what the Cavs needed... Not!

At least the all star break is coming up.

That is a silver lining for sure. I think getting through the trade deadline, even if they Cavs make no trades will help clarify the roster.

Currently spots 14 and 15 are vacant, spot 13 is to a guy who is suspended, spot 12 is to a guy who had played two games this season and is out indefinitely, then Garland is on a minutes restriction, Mobley is on a minutes restriction, Allen just got hurt last night, and the one two-way guy who was in the rotation for a bit is almost out of eligibility.

JonFromVA wrote:

ijspeelman wrote:Even against this injury-ridden Grizzlies game, when Allen went down it felt like we didn't have an answer for Jackson, who had our number all night.

Wade played some great one-on-one defense on Jackson that allowed others to stand pat and not allow easy shots.

Not a good game by any means, but I'll take my positives where I can get'em

Jackson actually cut the lead to just 2 with 2 minutes by backing down Wade with Caris helping and Strus otw. They went to him again after the Cavs scored. Wade forced him in a clumsy fall away hook (think he was trying to draw a foul) and he missed and they didn't bother to go to him again. Wade scored all of 6 points, and still finished with a team high +19.

I wasn't expecting much from Garland on the second night of a back to back and we didn't get much, but could have been worse.

If you had some time on your hands, I'd ask you to take a closer look at the times our ball movement worked and why. In other words, was it because our spacing worked, Don drove, the defense collapsed and we started rotating the ball? Or stupid defensive mistakes? Or well placed screens? Crazy shot making?

One thing that worries me is how much of it was due to Tristan setting legit screens and/or the action of other guys who are likely going to be out of the rotation with Garland and Mobley back. Certainly it wasn't Tristan's shooting or floor spacing.

For instance, while CPJ has a on-off of -2.1 for the season so far, he's been part of our highest rated offensive unit (1.60 pp100) along with Merrill-LeVert-Niang-Thompson albeit for just 44 minutes. He was also part of an unit with a 1.29 offensive rating with Str
us-Okoro-Wade-Allen that played 60 minutes.

I have no doubt JBB will spend the rest of the season trying to get the rotations he likes working better, but these other units which have worked while Garland and Mobley were out may hold some answers for the future.

At least he's convinced himself he needs to find minutes for the hottest shooter in the league, so I guess that's something. Whether he can figure out why that was working so well and get different players to figure out is a big, tbd. I don't recall who said it, but the gist of it was that setting screens for Sam had become contagious because of his shooting. Everyone just wanted to see if they couldn't free him up and get him a good look. The important point (and one I've made over the years) is that it's not enough to have a movement shooter if the other guys aren't setting screens, passing the ball at the right time, and avoiding set patterns the defense can predict.

I don't have sample sizes that consist of less than 100 minutes as statistically valid, especially when you're talking about players who were new to the league and had yet to show up on a scouting report. Sometimes the answer to why did X work before is as simple as we played a bad team/teams. Sometimes the answer is the other team had no idea what to expect from a guy who was just called up.

I do agree with you that the team misses TT's ability to set an effective pick. Allen's improvement in that area has been minimal and Mobley's has been completely non-existent. He's been injured, and the season isn't over, but Mobley's failure to improve in a couple simple areas has been my biggest disappointment.

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

ijspeelman wrote:Even against this injury-ridden Grizzlies game, when Allen went down it felt like we didn't have an answer for Jackson, who had our number all night.

Wade played some great one-on-one defense on Jackson that allowed others to stand pat and not allow easy shots.

Not a good game by any means, but I'll take my positives where I can get'em

Jackson actually cut the lead to just 2 with 2 minutes by backing down Wade with Caris helping and Strus otw. They went to him again after the Cavs scored. Wade forced him in a clumsy fall away hook (think he was trying to draw a foul) and he missed and they didn't bother to go to him again. Wade scored all of 6 points, and still finished with a team high +19.

I wasn't expecting much from Garland on the second night of a back to back and we didn't get much, but could have been worse.

If you had some time on your hands, I'd ask you to take a closer look at the times our ball movement worked and why. In other words, was it because our spacing worked, Don drove, the defense collapsed and we started rotating the ball? Or stupid defensive mistakes? Or well placed screens? Crazy shot making?

One thing that worries me is how much of it was due to Tristan setting legit screens and/or the action of other guys who are likely going to be out of the rotation with Garland and Mobley back. Certainly it wasn't Tristan's shooting or floor spacing.

For instance, while CPJ has a on-off of -2.1 for the season so far, he's been part of our highest rated offensive unit (1.60 pp100) along with Merrill-LeVert-Niang-Thompson albeit for just 44 minutes. He was also part of an unit with a 1.29 offensive rating with Str
us-Okoro-Wade-Allen that played 60 minutes.

I have no doubt JBB will spend the rest of the season trying to get the rotations he likes working better, but these other units which have worked while Garland and Mobley were out may hold some answers for the future.

At least he's convinced himself he needs to find minutes for the hottest shooter in the league, so I guess that's something. Whether he can figure out why that was working so well and get different players to figure out is a big, tbd. I don't recall who said it, but the gist of it was that setting screens for Sam had become contagious because of his shooting. Everyone just wanted to see if they couldn't free him up and get him a good look. The important point (and one I've made over the years) is that it's not enough to have a movement shooter if the other guys aren't setting screens, passing the ball at the right time, and avoiding set patterns the defense can predict.

I don't have sample sizes that consist of less than 100 minutes as statistically valid, especially when you're talking about players who were new to the league and had yet to show up on a scouting report. Sometimes the answer to why did X work before is as simple as we played a bad team/teams. Sometimes the answer is the other team had no idea what to expect from a guy who was just called up.

I do agree with you that the team misses TT's ability to set an effective pick. Allen's improvement in that area has been minimal and Mobley's has been completely non-existent. He's been injured, and the season isn't over, but Mobley's failure to improve in a couple simple areas has been my biggest disappointment.

Oh, CPJ's success has been obvious if you've been watching, the lineup data just tells us when. It's up to the coach to figure how to leverage his talent, which we can assume JBB will not do if he can avoid it.