Is it really Ferry's fault?

[eyejayem]

I was just thinking to myself and wondering why trades havent been made to help the Cavs. I think Ferry is a pretty good GM with a brain for setting a team up. But I was thinking that does anyone think that other GMs ,not just the east, fear making Cleveland better because they fear Lebron dominating the NBA if he had the kind of help to win championships considering his age and potential?

I understand that trades have to be fair but the trades that have fallen through have not all been one sided. Ferry may be a young GM but he isnt going to overpay to get Lebron some help and if Lebron can carry a team to the finals, some help may guaruntee a championship. And in my eyes the longer he is the sole provider the more I think other teams are in danger when he does get help, due to the experience of carrying a team like Kobe getting Gasol or even Bynum finally coming around. When Lebron has the pieces and understands the benefits of having that needed support to win championships I fear for the NBA like Jordan in the 90s. Jordan could have been 8 straight chmpionships at the level they played at and Lebron may be on his way so we could possibly look forward to 10 straight championships from 2010 to 2020.lol.

[L&H_05]

I think Ferry is a pretty good GM with a brain for setting a team up.

I have no idea how you've come up with this ?? There is zero base for any type of comparison or conclusion... The pieces he put in place have performed average to below average at best...

He missed on all of his 05 FA signings, and he missed the only time he's had a 1st pick at his disposal...He got Boobie and Flip, and those are the only two minor pieces that have worked out for the better..

But I was thinking that does anyone think that other GMs ,not just the east, fear making Cleveland better because they fear Lebron dominating the NBA if he had the kind of help to win championships considering his age and potential?

No.. Otherwise the Grizzlies GM would not have handed over Gasol to the Lakers for nothing...And they're in the west together...I believe in most cases GM's care about their own teams as opposed to other teams..

It's the simple fact that we have NOTHING to trade...We can't trade Ferry's signings yet since he overpaid and extended their contracts longer than they deserved.. Few expirings + no young talent (for example, if Ferry would have drafted a Jordan Farmar instead of Shannon Brown, you could probably have dangled Farmar out there as trade bait) --- Without those two things, you can't make a move... Alot of which is Ferry's fault..

I understand that trades have to be fair but the trades that have fallen through have not all been one sided. Ferry may be a young GM but he isnt going to overpay to get Lebron some help and if Lebron can carry a team to the finals, some help may guaruntee a championship. And in my eyes the longer he is the sole provider the more I think other teams are in danger when he does get help, due to the experience of carrying a team like Kobe getting Gasol or even Bynum finally coming around. When Lebron has the pieces and understands the benefits of having that needed support to win championships I fear for the NBA like Jordan in the 90s. Jordan could have been 8 straight chmpionships at the level they played at and Lebron may be on his way so we could possibly look forward to 10 straight championships from 2010 to 2020.lol.

Why won't he overpay ?? He did in FA when he had the chance...

There's no track record of success with Ferry, which is a problem... This team's success is based off of one individual ,and it's not Ferry...

Would Ferry have pulled off a Gasol type deal ??? Could he do that with an Elton Brand ?? Who knows... My confidence in Ferry's ability is lacking...He's proven absolutely nothing..

He talked heavily about getting into the draft last year, and we never heard from him again... He talks about possible trades, and then the deadlines passed and nothing happens, and we don't hear from him...

Since LBJ has been here, I've not one time thought it was a remote possibility that he leaves.. Never even really considered it.. However, in the last couple of weeks, and watching these teams improve, all the while knowing that the one player in the NBA who needs help more than any other superstar is still siting here with virtually the same team he had 3, 4 years ago, (Snow, Newble, LBJ, Drew, Z was starting in '04)without any significant changes to get him any help.... And he never complains, and remains professional throughout..

But I was thinking after that Nuggets game that he has to be frustrated seeing all these moves go down, knowing damn well he carries the biggest load of any player in the league, and is getting no help from upper management... He might literally consider bolting after this contract is up... And if the right moves are not made, I for one don't blame him at all..

The problem with all of this is you have to put faith in Ferry to get this stuff done... And like I said, he has no track record...

[TheOUTLAW]

Strangely enough I think that teams are rather reticent to make trades with the Cavs as well. I really don't think that there is a team that has as obvious a hole as the Cavs (except maybe the Bulls and their need for inside scoring) so it seems that nobody is going to give us a PG unless they feel that they can hold us hostage for one.

[kiwibrindle]

In a word, yes this is Ferry's fault. We have contracts with Bron, Z, Hughes, Gooden, Sasha, Andy and Damon Jones because of Ferry major contracts. Therefore, Ferry has made his bed. Now he has to sleep in it. In other words, if Danny would have gone for shorter contracts for some of these guys or, he would have more tradable commodities. I'm not terribly upset with Ferry overall, but to answer your question yes, he is responsible.

[TheOUTLAW]

I don't think many people are upset with those contracts except for the one for Hughes, Jones, Marshall and maybe Z. The problem was that the Cavs really did need to make a move that offseason and they'd already butchered the relationship with Z. So they had to appease him rather than let him walk. The other big name SG's of course were going back to their teams although I'd love to go back in time and avoid this deal with Hughes. I've been coveting Joe Johnson since we took Diop instead of him in the draft. Not to mention the fact that the Cavs had to overpay just to get Jones and Marshall to consider coming to Cleveland (eventhough those were bad decisions). This is what the fear of antagonizing the best player ever to play for your team can do to you.

[jnester71]

-= original quote snipped =-
The problem with all of this is you have to put faith in Ferry to get this stuff done... And like I said, he has no track record...

I agree.. absolutely no track record of success.

In fact, depending on if you believe what you read he has shown signs of complete incompetence.

Did anyone else read that he went to visit Varejao in Brazil and tried to get him to "sign for the good of the team" without going through Andy's agent?

The funny thing about Ferry is that he was indirectly responsible for ruining the franchise's only other chance at a NBA Championship when Ron Harper was sent away for him.

I hope he feels like he owes us one and doesn't ruin our only two chances.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Just imagine if the Loozer contract blunder didn't happen and we had picked at #9 instead of #10 in the 2004 draft and gotten Andre Iguodala instead of Luke Jackson....

Scrub PG
Iguodala
LBJ
Loozer
Z

Man that team would be a contender for 5+ years.

[TheOUTLAW]

-= original quote snipped =-



I agree.. absolutely no track record of success.

In fact, depending on if you believe what you read he has shown signs of complete incompetence.

Did anyone else read that he went to visit Varejao in Brazil and tried to get him to "sign for the good of the team" without going through Andy's agent?

The funny thing about Ferry is that he was indirectly responsible for ruining the franchise's only other chance at a NBA Championship when Ron Harper was sent away for him.

I hope he feels like he owes us one and doesn't ruin our only two chances.

That wasn't Ferry's fault at all. That was Cavs managament that made that blunder and in fact worse than the Ferry trade was the matching of Hot Rods contract that effectively screwed the Cavs for years. However the worst thing about the Ferry trade was not that the Cavs moved Harper but the fact that not only Ferry but Reggie Williams was a bust and the fact that the Cavs included 2 first rounders as well.

[Harper4Ferry?]

2004 offseason pretty much destroyed any chance of us winning a championship in this lifetime.

Refusal of Boozers option.
Drafting of Stryker Jackson
Eric Snow trade

The gooden/AV trade was good, but I believe we would have found a way to get AV regardless. He was definitely on the radar.

Couple that with the trade for Jiri, and we're f'd, plain and simple.

So, basically that one offseason/season results in us losing a double double PF, handcuffs us with a useless PG that had one decent season out of the 5 left on his contract. Plus Stryker over at least 5 players in that draft(nelson, jefferson, Beidrins, josh smith, Kevin Martin). Hell, if they would have just drafted Varejao instead of Jackson all would be right in the world.

[TheOUTLAW]

What's funny to me about that Jiri Welsch trade is that I think I was the only person on this board that was really pissed about that. We had to give up our protection on that first round pick in 2004 as well as give up a first for him. That was easily the dumbest thing I've ever seen an NBA team do short of the 1980's Cavs.

[B Mac]

Just imagine if the Loozer contract blunder didn't happen and we had picked at #9 instead of #10 in the 2004 draft and gotten Andre Iguodala instead of Luke Jackson....

Scrub PG
Iguodala
LBJ
Loozer
Z

Man that team would be a contender for 5+ years.

Also we would still have had quite a bit of cap to go after a stud PG since we wouldnt have gone out and got Larry. Plus we would have still had Tony Battie as our veteran backup big, but of course no Anderson or Gooden, but Im not convinced we wouldnt have got Anderson anyway since Paxson was rumored to have been so high on him.

[Harper4Ferry?]

Another good one, Kapono unprotected for Kedrick Brown.....which one is still in the league?

And why the hell is the search function on this board broken.....very very annoying when you want to go back 3-4 years and look at your reactions to things.

[heathmalc]

The question was if all of this was really Danny;s fault.

Yes and no.

Danny went and got players that had performed for their previous teams. The Cavs needed 3-point shooting - Danny got it in Damon and Donyell, who were the two most sought-after 3pt specialists available. Larry was our 3rd choice after Redd basically used the Cavs to get a max deal from the Bucks and Allen re-signed with Seattle. At the time, many people believed that Larry was the best option overall due to his defense and size combined with his ability to drive the ball.

It is not Danny's fault that those players never reached the expected results. He did take the best that was available to him.

As for Daniel Gibson... Why would anyone call him a MINOR move? Because he was drafted in the second round? Wtf does that mean? If people recall, Danny was considering taking Gibson instead of Shannon. Shannon was basically selected because who he'd been coached by. Danny just got Lucky that nobody else picked Gibson. In either case, it is not a minor move...if anything, it was a great move...getting a talent like Gibson in the 2nd round is always a master-stroke.

Now that I have defended him, I'll tell you where I think Danny has made HIS blunders:

Yes, it appears that the Cavs have nothing to trade...but that is just a bunch of BS. If the Cavs had nothing to trade then they wouldnt have been so close to getting Scola and Bibby this past summer.

The REAL reason no deal has been made yet is Danny has not got creative enough to make a deal. There are many teams out there who are willing to deal...Danny needs to start making proposals...perhaps quit looking at Bibby and Kidd and look in a different direction - one that is unexpected. He is a smart guy...that is obvious, so I can only cobclude that he isn't doing his job properly because he isn't being creative enough. Danny may not be able to guarantee that the player(s) he signs will do well, but he can sure as hell give them a time-limit before he finds a creative way to dump their a** so we can get someone else who will help.

So in conclusion...

No, it isn't Danny's fault that his signings decided to act like old women who never played basketball...

Yes, it is his fault that the Cavs are not making the move(s) necessary to improve. He wasn't hired to sign a player then wait for their bad contract to expire....he was hired to MANAGE the Cavaliers and ensure that they stay competitive with the upper tier teams.

Currently he is failing in achieving that goal.

[RevMan26]

Just imagine if the Loozer contract blunder didn't happen and we had picked at #9 instead of #10 in the 2004 draft and gotten Andre Iguodala instead of Luke Jackson....

Scrub PG
Iguodala
LBJ
Loozer
Z

Man that team would be a contender for 5+ years.

Well, and if Andre Miller was still here, then look at that lineup.

[Harper4Ferry?]

Close to getting player X is not the same thing as trading for player X. Ferry's on his second chance to ruin our franchise, and well on his way.

[kiwibrindle]

I think the reason Danny is so cautious now is because the players he picked the first time around in Free Agency did not work out and he is the one that okay'ed all of these guys.

Like it or not Danny is the one who signed this crop of FA's. I think now he realizes that good free agents can be a issue for the length of their contracts as well as their fit into a system.

Examples:

Donyell, was a descent FA signing the first year. He was one of the only guys to show up two years ago against Detroit in the semi's at crunch time.

Larry, a decent FA signing but too much money and misused here. We needed a shooter not a slasher with that strength covered by LBJ. Sorry old news.

Damon, bad pick overall. One good year. Contract too long never played defense. One dimensional player only when he's on.

Z good signing; has played longer than I thought he would when we signed him to a contract that was too F'ing long.

If it sounds like I'm holding back on my critisism, that's because I am. We did make it to the finals last year and the 2nd round of theplayoffs the year before that.

Thank God for LBJ.

Maybe we all need to ask ourselves should we wait until next year and for the 30 mill we unload in contracts for a big name or two.

I personally favor the Steve Nash approach. WIN NOW!

[rjgraca]

About a month ago, we told you how NBA executives believed Pau Gasol would be the next big name traded. They were as right on that as they were wrong on Shaquille O'Neal, whom many felt was among the NBA's most untradable players.



Well, many of those same folks are now saying that Ron Artest will be the next to go, with Jason Kidd coming in a distant second.



Why a distant second?



Because as they've shopped the disgruntled Kidd, the New Jersey Nets have been presented with offers that, if accepted, would leave the Popovich Commission in an uproar. (For those of you who missed it, San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich reacted to the Gasol trade by saying there should be a committee with the power to veto NBA trades that make no sense. Mark Cuban later seconded the motion.)



Further, Kidd's representatives are trying to steer him to one of his three preferred destinations: Dallas, Cleveland or the Los Angeles Lakers, and that is scaring off other teams with the goods to get him.



Artest, meanwhile, is being publicly melancholic over his potential departure from the Kings, who are trying to include Kenny Thomas in any Artest deal.



Sources told ESPN.com that talks between the Kings and Nuggets, first reported by the Sacramento Bee, involved a larger deal than has been reported. In addition to wanting to include Thomas in their outgoing package, the Kings were believed to be seeking Linas Kleiza and Nene.



There remains a chance the talks could be restarted, sources said, if Sacramento were to drop its asking price, but the most the Nuggets are currently willing to surrender is a package of Eduardo Najera and a first-round draft pick.



"If Artest opts out like everyone expects, you're basically talking about a rent-a-player deal," said one Western Conference executive familiar with the Nuggets-Kings talks.

[+] EnlargeAP Photo/Seth Wenig

As disappointing as Eddy Curry has been, he might have trade value.


Another source told ESPN.com that the New York Knicks made overtures recently indicating they were willing to trade centers Eddy Curry and Jerome James for Artest and Thomas, but the Kings were balking at taking on the remaining two years and $12.8 million owed to James.



"The whole point of trying to package Artest with Thomas (due $7.9 million next season and $8.6 million in 2009-10) is to clear cap space. The Kings don't want another guy (James) clogging their cap for two more years," the source said.



The Nuggets' willingness to give up this June's first-round draft pick will keep them a player in the Artest stakes, but it also could make the difference in their pursuit of Memphis point guard Kyle Lowry, who is being shopped by the Memphis Grizzlies.



Memphis also is fielding offers for Mike Miller but is trying to include little-used, heavily compensated forward Brian Cardinal (two years remaining at $6.3M and $6.75M) in any deal.



The Nuggets, Bulls, 76ers, Heat, Warriors and Nets are among the teams seeking to acquire Lowry, the 24th overall pick in 2006 who became expandable when the Grizzlies acquired Javaris Crittenton from the Lakers in the Gasol trade.



"The Grizzlies want to have at least three first-round picks this summer," the source said.



A few other situations that are impacting the trade market:

[Bamboozled]

I don't necessarily fault Ferry for the 2005 FA signings, as he couldn't have known that none of the guys would come to play at all. Plus he was faced with "Lebron leaving Cleveland paranoia" and had to make a move fast.

But I do think that Ferry hasn't followed his Spurs training very well, as the Cavs don't have a single player developing in Europe, and he hasn't been very good at picking up the marginal FAs like Deshawn Stevenson, Beno Udrich, Luis Scola, Jemario Moon, and Antonio Daniels when they have been available. Every year there has been a somewhat obvious talent (no excuse for missing Stevenson and Udrich) who signs for the minimum, and then proceeds to have a good year. Ferry should be targeting those guys, and he hasn't.

[Uncooked]

We can't leave out Paxson on some of the blame, come on guys. We have a rich history of bad GM's, don't sell anyone short here.

[hoopsdownlow]

only good thing ferry did was sign larry.