http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=761416
Thoughts?
Summary:
Sasha, Ira, Donyell, and Shannon for Miller and Cardinel
Memphis - Cleveland trade
Moderator: ijspeelman
Memphis - Cleveland trade
-
kiwibrindle
- Starter
- Posts: 2,134
- And1: 80
- Joined: Dec 08, 2004
-
Bamboozled
- Sophomore
- Posts: 189
- And1: 0
- Joined: Dec 11, 2005
I'd make that trade. Shannon doesn't play, Marshall and Cardinal are a wash, Ira is gone after this season, and Sasha is horrendously overrated.
My only problem is that Cardinal's contract goes for one year longer than Marshall's, which means Marshall would probably have more value over the summer.
My only problem is that Cardinal's contract goes for one year longer than Marshall's, which means Marshall would probably have more value over the summer.
Go Cavs!
-
heathmalc
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,083
- And1: 16
- Joined: Jul 13, 2007
- Location: Skr Hts.
This trade wont work for a couple of reasons (nothing to do with $).
The first reason, and most important, is that Memphis is not getting rid of Mike Miller without getting a #1 pick in return. They have already said this, but even if they hadn't it should be obvious anyway. Why would they "give-away" one of the best shooters in the league for nothing? Mike was on Team-USA... he wasn't invited there because they couldn't find another body to stick on the floor! He beat-out Rip Hamilton, Arenas, Ray Allen and others. The boy is flat-out good!
The second reason this trade never happens is that Memphis would have to buy-out somebody after the trade because they'd have too many players on their roster. So not only would they be giving away one of the top shooters in the league, but they'd be paying to do it.
Won't happen - not the way you said anyway.
Another reason this would never happen is that they (Memphis) would have no use for Marshall. They'd want someone who could contribute. Marshall would be very limited in what he could do for them, ie: throw up air-balls.
This is a more realistic trade:
Cleveland gets: Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal, Casey Jacobsen (acquired with trade exception)
Memphis gets: Eric Snow, Shannon Brown, Ira Newble, Dwayne Jones
2008 1st round pick, conditional 2010 2nd round pick* and cash.
* Conditional pick comes to Cleveland if Memphis doesn't re-sign Shannon Brown any of the three expiring contracts that are sent to them - Ira, Shannon, Dwayne.
Why each team does it:
Memphis:
The Grizzlies want to start over with young, cheap players. Their front-office believes that they can make a quick turn-around if they have at-least 3 #1 picks in the up-coming draft. Mike Miller will provide one of them. Eric Snow is a defensive player, who is well respected by league players and coaches. Eric will be able to show Mike Conley how the game is supposed to be played, and will help mentor other members of the young Grizz. Eric will be a player-coach for his final two seasons before moving into coaching for real. Ira Newble is an expiring contract, and will be able to fill the 2,3 or 4 position as needed by the Memphis coach. Ira is another defensive stopper and well-regarded vet who will lead by example...even if it's only for two months. Shannon Brown is a young player who player
who played under Tom Izzo and many people around the league thinks he has a future in the NBA. The Grizzlies FO will have first crack at him. Dwayne Jones is a throw-in, needed due to salary-cap restrictions. Still, Dwayne will bring a valuable body off the bench and he's been tutored in Cleveland's defensive mind-set. The Cash that Cleveland sends (3 million -maximum allowed) will pay for the salaries of all 3 expiring contracts, so the grizzlies essentially trade Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal's bad contract, and a seldom used Casey Jacobsen for Eric Snow's soon to be expiring contract, a #1 draft pick and a conditional 2nd round pick.
Cleveland:
Cleveland's reasoning for this trade is obvious. Mike Miller is EXACTLY what the Cavaliers need!!! He is a large (6'8) SG who has been one of the top shooters in the league for the last few years. He isn't the best defensive Guard do to his lack of lateral quickness, but what he lacks on defense (which is at-least passable), he makes-up for on offense. Cleveland takes on Brian Cardinals long contract because he will essentially replace Ira Newble's role, with less defensive one-on-one ability, but with 10X the offensive prowess. Brian has been a threat from 3-point land since coming to the NBA. The fact that he is taller and stronger than IRA, allows Brian to play the 4 against most others without being a liability. Casey Jaconsen is just a throw-in that was needed to make salaries match, due to the $139,000 that prevents the trade without him. The Cavs will either buy him out, or he'll sit on the bench and be used only in practice.
This deal is actually a steal for the Cavaliers, but due to Memphis' circumstances, it "appears" to be a fair trade. In-reality, the Cavs should probably be required to send 2 #1 picks for Miller - even though they would never do that. Although...I could see them making the 2nd round pick guaranteed.
The first reason, and most important, is that Memphis is not getting rid of Mike Miller without getting a #1 pick in return. They have already said this, but even if they hadn't it should be obvious anyway. Why would they "give-away" one of the best shooters in the league for nothing? Mike was on Team-USA... he wasn't invited there because they couldn't find another body to stick on the floor! He beat-out Rip Hamilton, Arenas, Ray Allen and others. The boy is flat-out good!
The second reason this trade never happens is that Memphis would have to buy-out somebody after the trade because they'd have too many players on their roster. So not only would they be giving away one of the top shooters in the league, but they'd be paying to do it.
Won't happen - not the way you said anyway.
Another reason this would never happen is that they (Memphis) would have no use for Marshall. They'd want someone who could contribute. Marshall would be very limited in what he could do for them, ie: throw up air-balls.
This is a more realistic trade:
Cleveland gets: Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal, Casey Jacobsen (acquired with trade exception)
Memphis gets: Eric Snow, Shannon Brown, Ira Newble, Dwayne Jones
2008 1st round pick, conditional 2010 2nd round pick* and cash.
* Conditional pick comes to Cleveland if Memphis doesn't re-sign Shannon Brown any of the three expiring contracts that are sent to them - Ira, Shannon, Dwayne.
Why each team does it:
Memphis:
The Grizzlies want to start over with young, cheap players. Their front-office believes that they can make a quick turn-around if they have at-least 3 #1 picks in the up-coming draft. Mike Miller will provide one of them. Eric Snow is a defensive player, who is well respected by league players and coaches. Eric will be able to show Mike Conley how the game is supposed to be played, and will help mentor other members of the young Grizz. Eric will be a player-coach for his final two seasons before moving into coaching for real. Ira Newble is an expiring contract, and will be able to fill the 2,3 or 4 position as needed by the Memphis coach. Ira is another defensive stopper and well-regarded vet who will lead by example...even if it's only for two months. Shannon Brown is a young player who player
who played under Tom Izzo and many people around the league thinks he has a future in the NBA. The Grizzlies FO will have first crack at him. Dwayne Jones is a throw-in, needed due to salary-cap restrictions. Still, Dwayne will bring a valuable body off the bench and he's been tutored in Cleveland's defensive mind-set. The Cash that Cleveland sends (3 million -maximum allowed) will pay for the salaries of all 3 expiring contracts, so the grizzlies essentially trade Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal's bad contract, and a seldom used Casey Jacobsen for Eric Snow's soon to be expiring contract, a #1 draft pick and a conditional 2nd round pick.
Cleveland:
Cleveland's reasoning for this trade is obvious. Mike Miller is EXACTLY what the Cavaliers need!!! He is a large (6'8) SG who has been one of the top shooters in the league for the last few years. He isn't the best defensive Guard do to his lack of lateral quickness, but what he lacks on defense (which is at-least passable), he makes-up for on offense. Cleveland takes on Brian Cardinals long contract because he will essentially replace Ira Newble's role, with less defensive one-on-one ability, but with 10X the offensive prowess. Brian has been a threat from 3-point land since coming to the NBA. The fact that he is taller and stronger than IRA, allows Brian to play the 4 against most others without being a liability. Casey Jaconsen is just a throw-in that was needed to make salaries match, due to the $139,000 that prevents the trade without him. The Cavs will either buy him out, or he'll sit on the bench and be used only in practice.
This deal is actually a steal for the Cavaliers, but due to Memphis' circumstances, it "appears" to be a fair trade. In-reality, the Cavs should probably be required to send 2 #1 picks for Miller - even though they would never do that. Although...I could see them making the 2nd round pick guaranteed.
We the People...
-
Harper4Ferry?
- Starter
- Posts: 2,233
- And1: 78
- Joined: Jun 29, 2002
Kind of agree with Heath's proposal, but if we are taking on Cardinal, I really hate to part with a #1 pick, although I guess I go ahead and do it. Much rather would swap Marshall for Cardinal, and Newble/Damon Jones #1 3mil for Miller/Jacobson. Trims a bit more off of 2008-09s number for the Cavs than just Snow alone does. Memphis uses the 3m to help buy out the last year of Damon's deal, after set-off when he signs a new deal, it'll be damn close to an even dollar proposition.
I'll give them Shannon too, if they want him.
We sit at about 80mil next season with 11 guys signed if we do my trade, about 83 if you do yours, althoguh we have 12 guys that way. Boobie still needs to be signed either way, as well as 3-4 more roster fillers.
Our payroll hits about 85-88 million next year doing a Miller/Cardinal trade, the more I think about it, it may just not happen.
I'll give them Shannon too, if they want him.
We sit at about 80mil next season with 11 guys signed if we do my trade, about 83 if you do yours, althoguh we have 12 guys that way. Boobie still needs to be signed either way, as well as 3-4 more roster fillers.
Our payroll hits about 85-88 million next year doing a Miller/Cardinal trade, the more I think about it, it may just not happen.
-
heathmalc
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,083
- And1: 16
- Joined: Jul 13, 2007
- Location: Skr Hts.
Harper4Ferry? wrote:Kind of agree with Heath's proposal, but if we are taking on Cardinal, I really hate to part with a #1 pick, although I guess I go ahead and do it. Much rather would swap Marshall for Cardinal, and Newble/Damon Jones #1 3mil for Miller/Jacobson. Trims a bit more off of 2008-09s number for the Cavs than just Snow alone does. Memphis uses the 3m to help buy out the last year of Damon's deal, after set-off when he signs a new deal, it'll be damn close to an even dollar proposition.
I'll give them Shannon too, if they want him.
We sit at about 80mil next season with 11 guys signed if we do my trade, about 83 if you do yours, althoguh we have 12 guys that way. Boobie still needs to be signed either way, as well as 3-4 more roster fillers.
Our payroll hits about 85-88 million next year doing a Miller/Cardinal trade, the more I think about it, it may just not happen.
My proposal is based on what BOTH teams might accept.
I agree with you 100%! I'd much rather send Marshall!!!
The Salary cap situation isn't nearly as bad as it appears. The Cavaliers will have 35 Million in potentially expiring contracts next year. With the loss of Shannon, and Snow, that drops 8 million to 28. The Cavaliers will be dealing Drew for sure and probably will send Varejao to Milwaukee this summer for Charlie-V and expiring deals. The players that are expiring will be dealt for other help that will allow us to dump salary (Stay around 75-77 million).
We DEFINITELY have to give-up a #1 to get Miller. That isn't what I worry about though. I just want Cardinal to be healthy so he can play in the rotation...preventing us from having to sign a d-leaguer or something for depth.
Dan Gilbert said he didn't mind the taxes - if it meant a championship... this will give him a chance to prove it. With this trade we get extremely deep and have a real shot at pulling-out a ring for LeBron!
One thing that I have thought about was this: Instead of Casey Jacobsen and Dwayne Jones, the Grizzlies send us Lowry and we send them Simmons an another #1 pick (protected) and keep our #2 pick.
It seems unimaginable that Memphis would deal Miller AND Lowry, but those are the two they are most trying to trade (with Cardinal going in a package).
So the Cavs get: Miller,Cardinal,Lowry
Memphis gets: Snow,Ira,Simmons 2 #1 picks (08 unprotected - 2010 protected top 5) (No cash is sent in this deal)
-
Bamboozled
- Sophomore
- Posts: 189
- And1: 0
- Joined: Dec 11, 2005
I think Lowry needs to be included if Cardinal is included. It's a low-cost appeasement by Memphis, who has no use for him anyway. Plus he and Shannon Brown make the same amount.
As for Cardinal though, would the inclusion of Jason Collins in this trade seem more worth it to either side? I think Collins could have a role on the Cavs as a defensive specialist. Although Cardinal does hustle and shoot 3s...
As for Cardinal though, would the inclusion of Jason Collins in this trade seem more worth it to either side? I think Collins could have a role on the Cavs as a defensive specialist. Although Cardinal does hustle and shoot 3s...
Go Cavs!