ImageImageImage

Redd, Villanueva to Cavs?

Moderator: ijspeelman

User avatar
El Sid
Pro Prospect
Posts: 895
And1: 0
Joined: May 27, 2008

 

Post#21 » by El Sid » Sat Jun 7, 2008 8:37 am

and also you shouldn't pay attention to the bucks fans on this forum or any other bucks fans, they act as though redd is one of the all time greats asking for all the cavs young talent and multiple draft picks. it comes down to the MIL orginization and what they want not the fans


Wow, we got a smart one here. Check out the Bucks board once in a while genius. Most Bucks fans can't stand Redd. Yeah Bucks fans view him as an all time great yet they all want him out of town asap.

i understand you don't want crap, but like it or not the bucks are rebuilding and the cavs aren;t going to give up all our offensive weapons and young talent and future picks to get redd a player that wants out of MIL.


When did Redd say he wants out of Milwaukee? Another smart one here. Redd has said twice this off season that he wants to retire a Buck.

And in regards to Charlie Bell's contract, the guy makes only 3.5 million a season and he is a good multi position backup. You Cavs fans need to get your facts straight when your talking about other teams players.

No way on God's green earth would Hammond (that is the Bucks new GM for you Cavs fans who probably don't know) make a trade where the Bucks give up the two best players in the deal (Redd and CV) for cap space.
User avatar
El Sid
Pro Prospect
Posts: 895
And1: 0
Joined: May 27, 2008

 

Post#22 » by El Sid » Sat Jun 7, 2008 8:46 am

Hey you might as well add this one to the list as a trade that you Cavs fans might be able to do to compliment Lebron.

Bogut, Ramon Session and the 37th pick for Big Z.

Then to go along next to Bogut, you can trade two more of your average backups for Rasheed Wallace.

West/Sessions/Bell
Redd/Gibson/Bell
Lebron/Simmons
Wallace/CV
Bogut/37th Pick
B Mac
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 11,730
And1: 540
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
Location: North Canton, Ohio
Contact:
     

 

Post#23 » by B Mac » Sat Jun 7, 2008 4:33 pm

Sounds good thanks for the suggestion!
User avatar
El Sid
Pro Prospect
Posts: 895
And1: 0
Joined: May 27, 2008

 

Post#24 » by El Sid » Sat Jun 7, 2008 5:50 pm

Sounds good thanks for the suggestion!


No problem lol. I'm an NBA fan in general and will root for any team that has a group of players I like, but it will be hard to root for the Cavs this coming season because you fans just rip on other franchises (especially since your franchise wasn't highly respected before getting the 1st pick in the draft where every team was praying for the first pick to get Lebron) and I don't know if you overvalue your own players but you definitely undervalue other teams players. I personally don't like Redd's game as a number one option but he would be an awesome compliment to a player like Lebron so the Bucks would never do a trade like the one listed.

0 chance. Especially when you throw in CV and Bell. In order for a trade to work for Redd, the Cavs would have to take Gadzuric and Simmons and throw in the 19th pick. If you think thats to much then the trade definitely won't happen, but that would be more realistic value. Your not going to find a guy who scores in the mid 20's every game with the 19th pick or by trading some backups and a future pick.

Hammond has stated that he will improve the Bucks through trades that will immediately help the team and the draft, not through trades that will take on backups to get salary cap space. No offense but the Cavs are not a good option as a team the Bucks want to trade with right now. Maybe other teams want expirings, but not the Bucks.

And I don't want to hear "well we don't like Redd anyway". Redd next to Lebron would be unstoppable offensively. 50+ ppg between the two of them. Look how effective Redd was on Team USA when guys drove and dished to him for wide open jumpers. If the Cavs had Redd this playoffs they would have been in the Eastern Conference Finals so don't give Milwaukee your scraps and think it's honest business. :noway: :wavefinger:
rjgraca
Head Coach
Posts: 6,654
And1: 43
Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Location: Northeast Ohio
     

 

Post#25 » by rjgraca » Sat Jun 7, 2008 6:56 pm

^ Worked for LA with Gasol or maybe you didn't notice.

I can tell your a NBA fan in general when you think Redd will function at his highest level in the CAVs dysfunctional offense which needs to be fixed first.

Oh, I believe the CAVs would have to include a young player in most any package -- but don't get carried away with an over paid player like Redd.
User avatar
El Sid
Pro Prospect
Posts: 895
And1: 0
Joined: May 27, 2008

 

Post#26 » by El Sid » Sat Jun 7, 2008 8:24 pm

^ Worked for LA with Gasol or maybe you didn't notice.


LOL...Conspiracy!

I can tell your a NBA fan in general when you think Redd will function at his highest level in the CAVs dysfunctional offense which needs to be fixed first.


I didn't say he would function at his highest level. Getting Mike Brown out of there isn't my problem either. However, with Lebron's amazing penetration, Redd would have three wide open 3's a quarter alone. And Redd get's doubled all the time, along with Lebron. One of them is going to have single coverage everytime and thats definite points.

Oh, I believe the CAVs would have to include a young player in most any package -- but don't get carried away with an over paid player like Redd.


Redd is overpaid (and the Cavs wanted to Max him a couple of years ago) but I don't overvalue him and that is part of the reason. Once again though, the Bucks won't give a divisional opponent their best player, offensive firepower in CV and a good backup in Bell for expiring contracts. The Bucks might as well just crown the Cavs division champs if they traded Redd, CV and Bell for scraps.
User avatar
L&H_05
RealGM
Posts: 11,569
And1: 94
Joined: Oct 02, 2005
Location: I love this game !
     

 

Post#27 » by L&H_05 » Sat Jun 7, 2008 9:16 pm

44-TAF-44 wrote:
Sounds good thanks for the suggestion!


No problem lol. I'm an NBA fan in general and will root for any team that has a group of players I like, but it will be hard to root for the Cavs this coming season because you fans just rip on other franchises (especially since your franchise wasn't highly respected before getting the 1st pick in the draft where every team was praying for the first pick to get Lebron)
What a moronic thing to say...

I'm sure the Bulls were highly respected when they had the likes of Sloan, Gilmore and Orlando Woolridge before Jordan...

The Spurs were so highly respected before Robinson... Then Duncan...

There's only been 9 teams to win a championship in like the last 25+ years, and only a handful of teams have had a franchise changing draft pick... We've been lucky to grab one of those...

Of course we weren't relevant pre-LeBron on a national scale... You're not breaking any news here... But, when you get one of the top players in the league via the draft, that tends to happen...
rjgraca
Head Coach
Posts: 6,654
And1: 43
Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Location: Northeast Ohio
     

 

Post#28 » by rjgraca » Sat Jun 7, 2008 9:27 pm

I don't think that most verteran CAVs posters expect a deal for Redd to involve only expiring. As for calling the CAVs players scraps -- Bell would be in that category too for the CAVs. CV and Redd are NOT known for their defense which is highly valued here with Mike Brown being the coach and doesn't boost their trade value despite their offensive capabilities. It comes down to how much you have to give up for a scoring guard whose defense is shakey and has a contract fitting a super star which he is not -- it's not that he couldn't help. The Buck's giving him the max is 25 percent more than the CAVs max which is why he chose the the Bucks.

Large expiring have value (well not as much as the Gasol trade) and are a must for a team rebuilding in a quicker fashion. If you read the objections to these expiring trades from other teams fans -- it deals with all expiring of marginal over paid players for an over paid useful one.
User avatar
L&H_05
RealGM
Posts: 11,569
And1: 94
Joined: Oct 02, 2005
Location: I love this game !
     

 

Post#29 » by L&H_05 » Sat Jun 7, 2008 9:34 pm

CAVs

rjgraca style...
old skool
General Manager
Posts: 7,760
And1: 3,499
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Location: Chi

 

Post#30 » by old skool » Mon Jun 9, 2008 6:24 pm

Redd is overpaid. But that fact is only salient if there is an equivalent talent available at a more fair price. Lacking an equivalent alternative (Mike Miller maybe?), Redd's contract is less important than hi sunique abilities.

I think the bigger issue is whether Hammond will trade Redd for expiring contracts. Hammond has hinted that he will not.

At present, Redd serves several purposes in Milwaukee.

1. - He sells tickets to the casual fan.
2. - He attracts double teams as the Bucks primary scoring threat.
3. - He is the only Buck who can score inside, midrange, and outside.
4. - He is a reliable free throw shooter.
5. - He has improved his offensive game in some measurable respect every year.

If/when the Bucks trade Redd, they have to receive a player in return who can do some or most of those things. Otherwise, they will have huge holes to fill.

Redd has weaknesses. He is a poor ballhandler, a poor passer, a poor defender and a fair rebounder. Plus he has poor shot selection. The anti-Redd is pretty easy to find. A SG who defends, is cautious taking shots, but can pass and handle the ball. Sounds like the veteran minimum to me.

There are few SGs in the NBA with the offensive versatility that Redd brings. It will be interesting to see what he fetches in the open market, as I suspect that he will be traded within a year or two. I think the Bucks should look for talent or high level (draft) prospects, not expiring contracts.

Redd alone, cannot win. Is he all that different from Paul Pierce?

oLd sKool
User avatar
Gordon Bombay
Head Coach
Posts: 6,227
And1: 79
Joined: Jan 09, 2007
Location: Thanks Baron!

 

Post#31 » by Gordon Bombay » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:25 pm

i got a redd + simmons for szczerbiak, varejao, pavlovic and damon to work in the trade simulator...maybe throw in a couple picks as well to sweeten the pot

we should also get hammond really drunk before doing this deal
A.J.
Banned User
Posts: 12,072
And1: 1
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Location: Houston(University of Houston in 2009)

 

Post#32 » by A.J. » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:03 pm

I would do that trade, but instead of Hibbert I would rather get Koufos. He could be another Z, but with a better shooting touch.
User avatar
heathmalc
Analyst
Posts: 3,083
And1: 16
Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Location: Skr Hts.

 

Post#33 » by heathmalc » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:39 pm

44-TAF-44 wrote:In order for a trade to work for Redd, the Cavs would have to take Gadzuric and Simmons and throw in the 19th pick. If you think thats to much then the trade definitely won't happen, but that would be more realistic value.


Now, who is OVER-valuing their players?

As for your selling-price... KEEP HIM!!! Redd can score, but that's it...and he's getting old. I don't want him anyways!

44-TAF-44 wrote: Your not going to find a guy who scores in the mid 20's every game with the 19th pick or by trading some backups and a future pick.


That's funny.... Milwaukee got Michael Redd WAY after the 19th pick (second round)... and it isn't like, he is the exception to the rule... Arenas, Parker, Gibson & many others have come out of the 2nd round over the last 10 years and have been proficient scorers. So, yes... we CAN easily find a player with the 19th pick, who can score 20 a game... and He'll probably play better defense than Redd!

44-TAF-44 wrote:Hammond has stated that he will improve the Bucks through trades that will immediately help the team and the draft, not through trades that will take on backups to get salary cap space. No offense but the Cavs are not a good option as a team the Bucks want to trade with right now. Maybe other teams want expirings, but not the Bucks.


Don't be so sure of that. Hammond is known to say one thing, and do another. Also, he can only do what the owner will let him, and your Senator/Owner doesn't like to spend money! However, you are right about one thing: The chances of the Cavaliers and Bucks making a trade are HIGHLY unlikely.

44-TAF-44 wrote:And I don't want to hear "well we don't like Redd anyway". Redd next to Lebron would be unstoppable offensively. 50+ ppg between the two of them. Look how effective Redd was on Team USA when guys drove and dished to him for wide open jumpers. If the Cavs had Redd this playoffs they would have been in the Eastern Conference Finals so don't give Milwaukee your scraps and think it's honest business. :noway: :wavefinger:


You are comparing Redd's play on an all-star team vs another country's team... Apples and Oranges!!!

First of all, Redd played less than 10 minutes a game. Second, he played against the 2nd team, while he played with all-stars on his squad. As for Redd and LeBron being "unstoppable" , that is nonsense. A.I. and Melo were said to be "unstoppable", yet they didn't make it past the first round.

As for our "scraps", I'd rather we trade them for a younger player, that plays better defense.

You say you are "just an NBA fan", but you are clearly a Bucks supporter, as your over-valuation of Redd and the Buck's players shows.

You wanted to know why the Bucks would send Redd and CV (who was a bench player his entire career until mid-way through last season due to injuries to other players) to a division opponent; Well, I ask you this: Why would the Cavaliers want to give a bunch of expiring contracts to a division opponent, who would then be able to re-make their entire roster in a single year... ala the Celtics??????

No thank you, you keep him!
User avatar
L&H_05
RealGM
Posts: 11,569
And1: 94
Joined: Oct 02, 2005
Location: I love this game !
     

 

Post#34 » by L&H_05 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:48 pm

Right.. Like, lets trade our scraps to the Heat for Marion and Beasley...

:rofl:
A.J.
Banned User
Posts: 12,072
And1: 1
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Location: Houston(University of Houston in 2009)

 

Post#35 » by A.J. » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:53 pm

L&H_05 wrote:Right.. Like, lets trade our scraps to the Heat for Marion and Beasley...

:rofl:


:rofl:

nice avi.

yeah, like the heat would consider that trade.
Rise Against
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 15,184
And1: 73
Joined: May 21, 2006
 

 

Post#36 » by Rise Against » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:01 pm

L&H_05 wrote:Right.. Like, lets trade our scraps to the Heat for Marion and Beasley...

:rofl:

:rofl2:

Thanks for the laugh L&H. :)

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers