How high does CLE go to match an offer to Delonte

Gainesville Celtic · Post #1 » by **Gainesville Celtic** » Wed Jul 9, 2008 10:52 pm

Cavs folks --- just curious what you think Ferry's ceiling is for matching an offer to Delonte West, since I'm guessing he doesn't want to cut too far into future caproom to add pieces around Mr. James.

Would they match a 3yr/$15M contract you think?

Has there been any rumors of other teams talking to him?

thanks!

If you can't tell i'd love to have Delonte back in Green. Loved that guy, hope y'all are enjoying his stellar interviews/humor/awesomeness.

Post #2 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Wed Jul 9, 2008 11:27 pm

I don't see the Cavs letting him go. That is a bit more than I think he's worth at present. But then, it's less than he's asking for.

Da_James_Gang · Post #3 » by **Da_James_Gang** » Wed Jul 9, 2008 11:29 pm

Yea him and gibson want the full mle supposedly....

I think west probably looks at guys like duhon and udrih getting the full mle and doesnt see a reason why he shouldnt. But i think the cavs would match if someone offered him that much....

Post #4 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Wed Jul 9, 2008 11:38 pm

Yeah, but Duhon went to NY. There's no way you'd do that unless they were overpaying you. Udrih had a good season (or so I'm told). Delonte had a nice playoffs. He's worth more to the Cavs but I still don't see him getting the full MLE

L&H_05 · Post #5 » by **L&H_05** » Wed Jul 9, 2008 11:55 pm

I believe James Jones just got the full MLE from Miami as a 3 point specialist-- so there's the market value for Boobie....

Benedict_Boozer · Post #6 » by **Benedict_Boozer** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:36 am

Delonte is a solid fit here in CLE - I would expect him to get the MLE or close to MLE type money. Boobie is tougher to gauge, he is pretty much the best 3pt shooter in the NBA but has limited PG skills and is obviously a bit undersized.

I'd expect him to get slightly under the MLE, 3+ years.

Post #7 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:59 am

L&H_05 wrote:I believe James Jones just got the full MLE from Miami as a 3 point specialist-- so there's the market value for Boobie....

That is a shocker. Have people learned nothing from Toronto signing Kapono.

Sure I think that Gibson is more useful than either one of those players I still don't think he is actually worth the MLE.

old skool · Post #8 » by **old skool** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:59 am

I think that the Cavs are not concerned about cap space all that much. The issue with West's contract is luxury tax. If the Cavs pay him $5-million a year, it costs them $10-million a year. That is the obstacle.

Cap space would only become an issue in 2010, when the free agency frenzy begins. It would be ironic if the Cavs, who are threatened by the specture of losing Lebron to free agency, are instead buyers in that market, enticing a big name free agent to join Lebron in Cleveland. For that to happen, the Cavs need to get under the cap. So far, the Cavs have no guaranteed contracts for 2010-11, except for Lebron's player option. If they don't sign anymore contracts past 200-10, they could have 100% of the cap space available.

Of course, for that to occur, they will need to convince every free agent for the next two years to sign for one or two years only. I doubt of players like Gibson and West will go for that. Ferry needs to be convincing.

oLd sKool

.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #9 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:10 am

I enjoy West's humor, just wish he could play point guard. The Cavs have put themselves in a situation where Gibson and Delonte have a lot of leverage. The Cavs have no options at point guard. Even these guys they are calling point guards can't even run the position.

They would have no choice but to match, who else are they going to get to play point? Gibson is a young lights out 3pt specialist. The market value for those guys is MLE type money.

The Cavs don't really need Delonte and Gibson, they really need a better point guard than Delonte to start ahead of Gibson, but they have no options I have to think they would match any offer.

DowJones · Post #10 » by **DowJones** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:23 am

We can offer Delonte something that not many teams can....a starting position. I think he would take less from Cleveland than he would Boston because in Boston he is just a backup.

Post #11 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:58 am

I would argue that neither Gibson nor Delonte have any leverage at all. Because just like last year, everyone knows without a doubt that the Cavs will match their offers.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #12 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:49 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:I would argue that neither Gibson nor Delonte have any leverage at all. Because just like last year, everyone knows without a doubt that the Cavs will match their offers.

That fact worked out real well for the Cavs last season.

Post #13 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:11 pm

Are you implying that overpaying would somehow have worked out better?

DowJones · Post #14 » by **DowJones** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:37 pm

We shouldn't have signed Sasha at all. Letting him walk for nothing would have been a better idea.

Post #15 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:39 pm

Sasha played like garbage last year, but the year before he played well enough to deserve the contract that he received.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #16 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:29 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:Are you implying that overpaying would somehow have worked out better?

Your comment was because teams know the Cavs will match that should take leverage away from the players. That was proven incorrect last season when AV and Pavs decided to take a huge risk and not sign qualifying offers. You don't do that unless you have leverage because the Cavs didn't have to sign Pavs back to the roster at all and he still would have held rights to him.

The Cavs have no other options at PG except Damon Jones and are well over the lux tax. They can't easily get replacements. That gives Delonte West and Gibson some leverage right now.

In my opinion the Cavs should prioritize. Pick one, get him signed then that takes leverage away from the other. I'd pick Gibson, he's worth more because of his incredible shooting, sign him then Delonte has less leverage. You would force Delonte to find another team to extend him an offer better than what the Cavs present.

Bamboozled · Post #17 » by **Bamboozled** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:39 pm

I'm not sure if the Cavs need to use their MLE to sign Gibson, since he's only played on the Cavs. If I had to keep one of the two, I'd probably keep Gibson, as he's more fearless than West, and since his shooting will keep him on the court, he'll get the minutes he needs to develop the other parts of his game. I'd like to keep West as well, but I'd rather see him sign for around 12-13 million/3 years

Post #18 » by **B Mac** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:26 pm

Well we dont have to use our MLE on either of them since they are our own restricted free agents, and I agree with Outlaw here... There is no way that those two have the upper hand in this situation. The Cavs are definately in the drivers seat, especially with Gibson since he has said over and over again how badly he wants to resign here and how close he and LeBron are. As for Delonte... where else is he going to go and be given an opportunity to start? I can think of maybe two teams, and none of them would be able to offer him more than the MLE which we would match anyway. I seriously doubt either of these guys get offers from other teams unless their agents pull a few strings with those other teams just to get them some more dough from the Cavs.

Benedict_Boozer · Post #19 » by **Benedict_Boozer** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:03 am

B Mac wrote:Well we dont have to use our MLE on either of them since they are our own restricted free agents, and I agree with Outlaw here... There is no way that those two have the upper hand in this situation. The Cavs are definately in the drivers seat, especially with Gibson since he has said over and over again how badly he wants to resign here and how close he and LeBron are. As for Delonte... where else is he going to go and be given an opportunity to start? I can think of maybe two teams, and none of them would be able to offer him more than the MLE which we would match anyway. I seriously doubt either of these guys get offers from other teams unless their agents pull a few strings with those other teams just to get them some more dough from the Cavs.

Yup. They will prob wait it out all summer but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get any offers. Why would a team tie up their cap space when we will match any reasonable offers.

Much like AV, the market will set the reality.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #20 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:56 am

The Cavs should get one of them signed as quickly as possible, then they can play hard with the other one. Gibson is the one I want to see them take care of swiftly.

With Boobie signed they can play hard with West, forcing his agent to either; find some team to extend an offer (which I don't think will be an easy task), accept a 3yr/9 million deal or sign the QO.

Hopefully the Cavs can get out of this by only playing these guys a combined $8 million this season. The team is already $10 million over the lux tax (~$81 million total payroll). They are not in the position to throw money around on mediocre players. If they do they'll be over $90 million in payroll without using a penny of the MLE or BAE.

With the lack of talent on this team and the payroll steady climbing - it could even increase more during the season if they take on more salary via trade - they are standing on dangerous ground, too close to the crown and soon it will be time to see if they know their bounds.

The leverage West/Gibson have right now is they are both restricted free agents so the only "PG" signed on the roster is a 32 year old Damon Jones.

I'm not saying this is going to happen, but hypothetically if both agents got together and worked against the Cavs, both demanding MLE type money or neither signs that would be a nightmare for Ferry. I'm not saying that's going to happen just using that as an illustration of the power both of them not being signed means. It means the Cavs are up ish creek at PG. I'm sure LeBron would just love to hear the Cavs can't get their own RFA's signed again even if they are only mediocre point guards. They have to take West/Gibson's leverage away by signing one of them quickly, then the other one will cave unless he finds someone to extend an offer.

I'm guessing Gibson could find someone to extend him an offer much easier. Also Gibson's qualifying offer is under $1million, there's a large difference between that and his market value so he's not caving in to sign that QO no matter what the case. Very similar to last season when AV's QO was under $800 thousand and there was no way in hell he was going to sign that, even though in my opinion the Cavs wanted him to. They should sign Gibson first and let Delonte sweat bullets.