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Cavs Sign D.West to 5 year / 26.5 Million Deal 5.5 Per and trade him to the Magic for C.Arroyo to a 2 year / 5.5 Mill Deal 2.75 per , K.Bogans 2.9 Mill expiring, and a future 1st ..... What do you guys think???


Magic might be willing to move Hedo .... Maybe somethan like D.West and Varejao + picks ???

No thanks. Arroyo is injured, Bogans doesn't help us, and we don't want to trade West for a low first.

midgman8421 wrote:No thanks. Arroyo is injured, Bogans doesn't help us, and we don't want to trade West for a low first.

JJ
1st
2 2nd's
The rights to Fran Vazquez
Cash
Bogans or Cook


4

D.West 5.5 per year deal

No to both trades.

Done deal...

West isn't anything special, so I don't feel like we're losing much...

**Not a big fan of Arroyo, but I could live with him at the point for a short period of time, considering we don't need a traditional point...

**Bogans is a guy that can shoot the 3 ball pretty well, and is a pretty decent perimeter defender, and we are looking for a player on the wing that can do both of those things..

**The 1st round pick could be used as a sweetener towards the deadline to acquire a more desirable piece as well..

And above all else, Delonte doesn't significantly improve Orlando to the point where we would have to take them serious come playoff time...

I'd strongly consider this trade..

midgman8421 wrote:No thanks. Arroyo is injured, Bogans doesn't help us, and we don't want to trade West for a low first.

Umm.....Carlos Arroyo may be a lot of things, poor basketball player included, but he's been very healthy in his tenure in Orlando. He may have racked up some DNP-CD, but he has missed very few games due to injury.

I'll give you the Bogans comment and the low first. I don't think we need to tie up another 5 million in a quasi starting pg in West anyways, we already have Nelson.

L&H_05 wrote:Done deal...

West isn't anything special, so I don't feel like we're losing much...

**Not a big fan of Arroyo, but I could live with him at the point for a short period of time, considering we don't need a traditional point...

**Bogans is a guy that can shoot the 3 ball pretty well, and is a pretty decent perimeter defender, and we are looking for a player on the wing that can do both of those things..

**The 1st round pick could be used as a sweetener towards the deadline to acquire a more desirable piece as well..

And above all else, Delonte doesn't significantly improve Orlando to the point where we would have to take them serious come playoff time...

I'd strongly consider this trade..

What?

You already need to take Orlando seriously, let alone if they improve.

Orlando is not a good trading partner when it comes to dwest........

Devin 1L wrote:

L&H_05 wrote:Done deal...

West isn't anything special, so I don't feel like we're losing much...

**Not a big fan of Arroyo, but I could live with him at the point for a short period of time, considering we don't need a traditional point...

**Bogans is a guy that can shoot the 3 ball pretty well, and is a pretty decent perimeter defender, and we are looking for a player on the wing that can do both of those things..

**The 1st round pick could be used as a sweetener towards the deadline to acquire a more desirable piece as well..

And above all else, Delonte doesn't significantly improve Orlando to the point where we would have to take them serious come playoff time...

I'd strongly consider this trade..

What?

You already need to take Orlando seriously, let alone if they improve.

As it stands currently, I'm not really worried about Orlando in a 7 game playoff series..Not suggesting they're not talented, but I don't see them as one of the teams that would be in the way in terms of us getting back to the finals...

And if the Cavs do indeed parlay their expiring contracts at the deadline for a legit #2 option (which they should.) I don't believe there's a team in the east that I would worry about to be honest...

D12J14 wrote:

midgman8421 wrote:No thanks. Arroyo is injured, Bogans doesn't help us, and we don't want to trade West for a low first.

Umm.....Carlos Arroyo may be a lot of things, poor basketball player included, but he's been very healthy in his tenure in Orlando. He may have racked up some DNP-CD, but he has missed very few games due to injury.

I'll give you the Bogans comment and the low first. I don't think we need to tie up another 5 million in a quasi starting pg in West anyways, we already have Nelson.

Didn't Arroyo get hurt this summer? I could've sworn I heard something about him getting hurt while playing for Puerto Rico, or at least undergoing some sort of surgery... if not, then my apologies for being mistaken.

Devin 1L wrote:

L&H_05 wrote:Done deal...

West isn't anything special, so I don't feel like we're losing much...

**Not a big fan of Arroyo, but I could live with him at the point for a short period of time, considering we don't need a traditional point...

**Bogans is a guy that can shoot the 3 ball pretty well, and is a pretty decent perimeter defender, and we are looking for a player on the wing that can do both of those things..

**The 1st round pick could be used as a sweetener towards the deadline to acquire a more desirable piece as well..

And above all else, Delonte doesn't significantly improve Orlando to the point where we would have to take them serious come playoff time...

I'd strongly consider this trade..

What?

You already need to take Orlando seriously, let alone if they improve.

dont have the consistent defense and rely way too much on the three

Im actually willing to give Orlando much more credit now then I did at this point last year, for a couple of reasons.

A) Dwight continued to really improve and isnt done yet. While he'll never be a LeBron, he is definately a superstar and gets plenty of calls because of it. If he can continue to improve his offense and FT shooting then look out.

B) Hedo. The guy went nuts last year. Who saw that coming? His improvement is what made that team a contender. Major props to him for turning around a rather lackluster career.


However, there still are some major problems that I believe allow the Cavs to be a better playoff team.

A) In this league the dominant swing man/guard has almost become a neccesity in order to win in the playoffs. Look at Pierce and Kobe last year, or LeBron and Parker the year before that, or D Wade, etc... For as good as Hedo was last year, he still is not a guy that defenses flat out cannot stop like the guys I listed. What about Dwight? If he gets the ball late then opponents are relieved... All you gotta do is foul him.

B) The defense, while much improved, is still not championship playoff calibur. Dwight clearly holds his own here, and Hedo actually is very very good as well, however the rest of the team just hasnt seemed to buy into the defensive system that is needed to win.


Orlando with their ridiculous 3 point shooting and big game potential out of 3 different guys, clearly can beat any team on any night, but when it comes to a 7 game series I still like our chances due to our defense, rebounding, and having the best player on the planet.

B Mac wrote:Im actually willing to give Orlando much more credit now then I did at this point last year, for a couple of reasons.

A) Dwight continued to really improve and isnt done yet. While he'll never be a LeBron, he is definately a superstar and gets plenty of calls because of it. If he can continue to improve his offense and FT shooting then look out.

B) Hedo. The guy went nuts last year. Who saw that coming? His improvement is what made that team a contender. Major props to him for turning around a rather lackluster career.


However, there still are some major problems that I believe allow the Cavs to be a better playoff team.

A) In this league the dominant swing man/guard has almost become a neccesity in order to win in the playoffs. Look at Pierce and Kobe last year, or LeBron and Parker the year before that, or D Wade, etc... For as good as Hedo was last year, he still is not a guy that defenses flat out cannot stop like the guys I listed. What about Dwight? If he gets the ball late then opponents are relieved... All you gotta do is foul him.

You could just as easily replace that with big man.

In fact, I would make the case that a dominant big man is more of a necessity.

B) The defense, while much improved, is still not championship playoff calibur. Dwight clearly holds his own here, and Hedo actually is very very good as well, however the rest of the team just hasnt seemed to buy into the defensive system that is needed to win.

The Magic's defense is actually fairly good. Not the cream of the crop, and not as good as Cleveland's, but above average. I agree, this is something they'll need to take to the next level, but this will come with Dwight's continued improvement on the defensive end (believe it or not, he's still raw). Along with the return of Battie, and the addition of Pietrus, I expect their defense to take it up a notch this year. Also, in fairness, it should be noted that their offense is very good, and they score very efficiently, unlike the year before.

As for Hedo being very very good on the defensive end -- I don't know about that. I would put him as simply average. In fact, believe it or not, I would place Rashard above Hedo, in terms of defense.

Orlando with their ridiculous 3 point shooting and big game potential out of 3 different guys, clearly can beat any team on any night, but when it comes to a 7 game series I still like our chances due to our defense, rebounding, and having the best player on the planet.

Orlando actually has a higher rebounding rate.

Also, and I realize that this is a Cleveland forum, and that the public in general is relatively split, but in my opinion, the best player on the planet title goes to Kobe Bryant, despite how much I despise him. I do view LeBron as number two, however, and do foresee him overtaking that spot sometime in the near future.

I think a Cleveland/Orlando matchup would be quite interesting, honestly. I just think the original poster was really selling them short by claiming 'we wouldn't have to take them serious come playoff time'. I think Cleveland would most certainly have to take Orlando very seriously, especially if they improve, which was what this poster was referring to. After all, they're arguably the better team as is, let alone if they improved.

The Cavs are not a good enough team that they'd not take virtually any playoff team seriously. But I didn't think that Orlando was a serious competitor for the championship (Cleveland either). I just don't think a team that relies on 3 pointers the way that Orlando does can ever win the championship.

midgman8421 wrote:

D12J14 wrote:

midgman8421 wrote:No thanks. Arroyo is injured, Bogans doesn't help us, and we don't want to trade West for a low first.

Umm.....Carlos Arroyo may be a lot of things, poor basketball player included, but he's been very healthy in his tenure in Orlando. He may have racked up some DNP-CD, but he has missed very few games due to injury.

I'll give you the Bogans comment and the low first. I don't think we need to tie up another 5 million in a quasi starting pg in West anyways, we already have Nelson.

Didn't Arroyo get hurt this summer? I could've sworn I heard something about him getting hurt while playing for Puerto Rico, or at least undergoing some sort of surgery... if not, then my apologies for being mistaken.

No need to apologize or anything like that, I have never heard anything about him being injured. Like I said before, Carlos has many issues, like poor decision making skills at time and shooting A LOT, but injuries aren't really one of them.

Devin 1L wrote:
You could just as easily replace that with big man.

In fact, I would make the case that a dominant big man is more of a necessity.

While teams like the Celtics, Spurs, and Heat have had dominant big men over the last three years I dont think there is anyway you can argue that they were responsible for their teams winning. Sure the Celtics had KG, but it was Pierce that was dominant and ulitmately won it for them, same with Duncan and Parker, and same with Shaq and Wade. Pierce, Parker, and Wade were all surely helped by having that dominant big guy on their team, but all three of them almost single handedly got the job done for their teams. Thats why I said that a superstar swingmen/guard is what it takes to win a championship in this league. Ironically, the Magic have the dominant big that we need and the Cavs have the dominant swing man that the Magic need. The Cavs and Magic are both flawed teams in that sense, but IMO having LeBron and no dominant big man trumps having Dwight and no dominant swing/guard.

Dwight is a great player, but I certainly wouldn't suggest he's a dominant big man... I've seen several cases in which Dwight's been neutralized by his opponent, and was relegated as mainly a rebounder and occasional shot blocker...

He's not a TAKE OVER type of dominant big.. Although, he is extremely good...

B Mac wrote:

Devin 1L wrote:
You could just as easily replace that with big man.

In fact, I would make the case that a dominant big man is more of a necessity.

While teams like the Celtics, Spurs, and Heat have had dominant big men over the last three years I dont think there is anyway you can argue that they were responsible for their teams winning. Sure the Celtics had KG, but it was Pierce that was dominant and ulitmately won it for them, same with Duncan and Parker, and same with Shaq and Wade. Pierce, Parker, and Wade were all surely helped by having that dominant big guy on their team, but all three of them almost single handedly got the job done for their teams. Thats why I said that a superstar swingmen/guard is what it takes to win a championship in this league. Ironically, the Magic have the dominant big that we need and the Cavs have the dominant swing man that the Magic need. The Cavs and Magic are both flawed teams in that sense, but IMO having LeBron and no dominant big man trumps having Dwight and no dominant swing/guard.

I don't disagree that Pierce, Parker and Wade were necessary pieces to have on those teams

However, I do disagree that they were the most necessary. In fact, I disagree on each account. In my opinion, having the dominant big men that they had (Garnett, Duncan, Shaq) was more of a necessity.

Further, I'm not referring to just those particular teams. Across the NBA, having a dominant big man is pretty much a necessity.

I'm sure many people will disagree with the overall premise that a big man is the biggest necessity, and on those individual cases, but, like I said, that's just my opinion.

so much for arroyo...he's going to tel aviv

Sorry, but Arroyo was not an improvement.

I don't know why people think that it'd be so easy to find a decent PG to replace Delonte. If it were that easy the Cavs wouldn't have been having such difficulty finding one before. They really haven't had a PG since before LeBron got here.