pros and Cons of this Cle/NY idea (Not a Zach trade)

[TwelvePac]

I know you guys are tired of trade proposals but here is one that improves your squad at the expense of salary and I am curious to know your opinions and how you weight pros and cons.

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New York Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
J.J. Hickson
0-0 PF / SF from North Carolina State
No games yet played in 2007/08
Anderson Varejao
6-10 PF / C from Brazil (Foreign)
No games yet played in 2007/08
Ben Wallace
6-9 C from Virginia Union
No games yet played in 2007/08
Outgoing Players
David Lee
6-9 PF from Florida
No games yet played in 2007/08
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
No games yet played in 2007/08
Malik Rose
6-7 PF from Drexel
No games yet played in 2007/08
Eddy Curry
6-11 C from Thornwood (HS)
No games yet played in 2007/08

[bcortell]

No. For as much as that "improves our squad [offensively]" it hurts us defensively. Add in the extra salary and it's a Big No.

I'd still say Wally for Curry, 2nd is about fair value.. so think of something that has THAT kind of value. (I actually think Wally, 2nd for Curry, 1st or Chandler is fair value but Knick's fans hate that so that is my compromise to my original idea)

[TheOUTLAW]

This is just terrible for the Cavs

[Gordon Bombay]

ewwwww

[TwelvePac]

This is just terrible for the Cavs

Really!!?

[TwelvePac]

No counter?

[Smooth32]

No because a counter-offer would mean that the Knicks actually have something that the Cavs want which isn't the case.

[BBALLER4FR]

No. For as much as that "improves our squad [offensively]" it hurts us defensively. Add in the extra salary and it's a Big No.

I'd still say Wally for Curry, 2nd is about fair value.. so think of something that has THAT kind of value. (I actually think Wally, 2nd for Curry, 1st or Chandler is fair value but Knick's fans hate that so that is my compromise to my original idea)

Serious question.

Putting aside Wally's contract, what does a 31yr old SF, who can no longer shoot (despite that being his claim to fame) bring to the table to be worth an (soon to be) 26yr old, 7', low post player (and Curry's lack of defense can't even be used as reasoning when you're losing Wally Szczerbiak)? Even when you consider Wally expires, there is absolutely no reason for NY to add a pick of any kind or an athletic 2 way player on a rookie deal, when you get younger, bigger player, a clear compliment to you entire frontcourt of defenders (Z, Ben and Varejao) and the better impact player in the deal.

[bcortell]

I won't put aside Wally's contract because that is a BIG part of why you would do the deal. Couldn't I ask you about having no cap space for 3 years (especially if you re-up Lee) while being stuck at the bottom to middle of the league? You guys need to completely re make you team and you start by getting cap space. I don't think asking for a second along with Curry is too much at all.

[Smooth32]

Wally's proved he can shoot in the past. I'll wait to pass judgment to see whether or not he can still shoot, for this season.

And expirings are gold around the trade deadline.

No one wants Curry. The guy is unmotivated, fat, a sloth, a terrible rebounder, a terrible defender, he doesn't have a motor and he just doesn't get "it". He's a nice offensive player, but it isn't worth all of the baggage that comes with him and the fact we'd be giving up one of our main trading assets.

Not to mention, I don't exactly like the idea of Curry backing up Z. I want to get more athletic, not more non-athletic.

[BBALLER4FR]

So Stephon Marbury could get the Knicks a young C and 2 1st rounders? After all he expires, provides more cap space to a team and he's a far better player than Wally. Or does this only apply to low key players who've fallen off?

Also, just because NY is looking for cap space doesn't mean mediocre talent attached to an expiring warrants breaking the bank. No other team would come close to that deal you proposed, yet that's the price the Knicks pay for Wally? Please. Let's wait and see what the great Wally and his disappearing contract actually get you and we'll revisit how very valuable it is.

[TwelvePac]

No. For as much as that "improves our squad [offensively]" it hurts us defensively. Add in the extra salary and it's a Big No.

I'd still say Wally for Curry, 2nd is about fair value.. so think of something that has THAT kind of value. (I actually think Wally, 2nd for Curry, 1st or Chandler is fair value but Knick's fans hate that so that is my compromise to my original idea)

Curry, Jeffries and a 2nd for Wally I would do.

[cavshats]

So Stephon Marbury could get the Knicks a young C and 2 1st rounders? After all he expires, provides more cap space to a team and he's a far better player than Wally. Or does this only apply to low key players who've fallen off?

Also, just because NY is looking for cap space doesn't mean mediocre talent attached to an expiring warrants breaking the bank. No other team would come close to that deal you proposed, yet that's the price the Knicks pay for Wally? Please. Let's wait and see what the great Wally and his disappearing contract actually get you and we'll revisit how very valuable it is.

no stephon marbursy expiring is actually too big. Thats the first problem a team would be needing to dump alot of salary to take marbury. The second problem the knicks have is why the heck would they want to take on even more salary when there hole problem is bad contracts it just wouldnt be worth it for just a first round pick. I really don't understand why you are brining up wallys skills as part of a trade his only value is that his contract is expiring. The knicks are clearly looking to dump salary, eddy curry too them right now is just a big contract. Of course he has skills and may possibly bring value to certain teams but he is not gunna bring the knicks an allstar calibur player and really isn't worth all that much because his contract outweighs his performance.

[BBALLER4FR]

So Stephon Marbury could get the Knicks a young C and 2 1st rounders? After all he expires, provides more cap space to a team and he's a far better player than Wally. Or does this only apply to low key players who've fallen off?

Also, just because NY is looking for cap space doesn't mean mediocre talent attached to an expiring warrants breaking the bank. No other team would come close to that deal you proposed, yet that's the price the Knicks pay for Wally? Please. Let's wait and see what the great Wally and his disappearing contract actually get you and we'll revisit how very valuable it is.

no stephon marbursy expiring is actually too big. Thats the first problem a team would be needing to dump alot of salary to take marbury. The second problem the knicks have is why the heck would they want to take on even more salary when there hole problem is bad contracts it just wouldnt be worth it for just a first round pick. I really don't understand why you are brining up wallys skills as part of a trade his only value is that his contract is expiring. The knicks are clearly looking to dump salary, eddy curry too them right now is just a big contract. Of course he has skills and may possibly bring value to certain teams but he is not gunna bring the knicks an allstar calibur player and really isn't worth all that much because his contract outweighs his performance.

I couldn't agree with you more. Wally's only value is in his contract. So why would the Knicks add a pick or young talent along with a young, 7' C, for a bad player with a favorable contract? Because it's fun to think up ways to take advantage of the Knicks and for no other reason. Just because Walsh is looking to get under the cap doesn't mean he's accepting nothing and overpaying to do it, otherwise a deal could have been stuck up with LA since they were under the cap. Walsh killed that discussion. So can we please get away from trying to get over in a deal with Wally's contract as the only bargaining chip? Otherwise, since expirings are so valuable, I have a counter offer:

Wallace/Varejao
for
Marbury

[L&H_05]

The Knicks are the team that is pressing... I don't see a New York Knick, or a package of New York Knicks that puts us over the top in a position to win a championship with their acquisition...

I'd just assume not to even deal with that team... There's absolutely nothing there that I want, or believe can help us outside of Lee, and I don't believe his overall impact would be so substantial that it would warrant taking on something else that is less desirable...

I'd just disassociate with the Knicks all together...

[B Mac]

If the Knicks fans that have been posting in this thread and their GM share the same view on this issue then there is no way they make any trades this year. No team is actually going to WANT to take on those players... its going to take some convincing.. (picks, young talent, etc...)

[bcortell]

No. For as much as that "improves our squad [offensively]" it hurts us defensively. Add in the extra salary and it's a Big No.

I'd still say Wally for Curry, 2nd is about fair value.. so think of something that has THAT kind of value. (I actually think Wally, 2nd for Curry, 1st or Chandler is fair value but Knick's fans hate that so that is my compromise to my original idea)

Curry, Jeffries and a 2nd for Wally I would do.

Nice trying to slip Jeffries in there too.. but we won't take Jeffries back.

[bcortell]

So Stephon Marbury could get the Knicks a young C and 2 1st rounders? After all he expires, provides more cap space to a team and he's a far better player than Wally. Or does this only apply to low key players who've fallen off?

Also, just because NY is looking for cap space doesn't mean mediocre talent attached to an expiring warrants breaking the bank. No other team would come close to that deal you proposed, yet that's the price the Knicks pay for Wally? Please. Let's wait and see what the great Wally and his disappearing contract actually get you and we'll revisit how very valuable it is.

no stephon marbursy expiring is actually too big. Thats the first problem a team would be needing to dump alot of salary to take marbury. The second problem the knicks have is why the heck would they want to take on even more salary when there hole problem is bad contracts it just wouldnt be worth it for just a first round pick. I really don't understand why you are brining up wallys skills as part of a trade his only value is that his contract is expiring. The knicks are clearly looking to dump salary, eddy curry too them right now is just a big contract. Of course he has skills and may possibly bring value to certain teams but he is not gunna bring the knicks an allstar calibur player and really isn't worth all that much because his contract outweighs his performance.

I couldn't agree with you more. Wally's only value is in his contract. So why would the Knicks add a pick or young talent along with a young, 7' C, for a bad player with a favorable contract? Because it's fun to think up ways to take advantage of the Knicks and for no other reason. Just because Walsh is looking to get under the cap doesn't mean he's accepting nothing and overpaying to do it, otherwise a deal could have been stuck up with LA since they were under the cap. Walsh killed that discussion. So can we please get away from trying to get over in a deal with Wally's contract as the only bargaining chip? Otherwise, since expirings are so valuable, I have a counter offer:

Wallace/Varejao
for
Marbury

I think Starbury does have some value as an expiring but usually the point of expirings is to use them along with a pick or two to get a star player.. As stated before, it will be pretty hard to get a salary to equal his though.. and NY is probably smarter to just let him expire and save them a lot of money since they won't be competing any time soon.

And for that deal, no.. Cleveland does not need expirings. We also don't need to lose 2 bigs. But i'm sure you were just being sarcastic.. but you can't see the difference in Cleveland (who's going for a championship) and NY (who is no where near a championship)

[bcortell]

So Stephon Marbury could get the Knicks a young C and 2 1st rounders? After all he expires, provides more cap space to a team and he's a far better player than Wally. Or does this only apply to low key players who've fallen off?

Also, just because NY is looking for cap space doesn't mean mediocre talent attached to an expiring warrants breaking the bank. No other team would come close to that deal you proposed, yet that's the price the Knicks pay for Wally? Please. Let's wait and see what the great Wally and his disappearing contract actually get you and we'll revisit how very valuable it is.

And where has anyone said the Cavs are trying to get a young center and 2 1sts?

There a lot of young centers out there though.. some who produce and some who are terrible, etc... Make sure you take into account character/desire/contracts and the like. Please don't be ignorant.

[rjgraca]

Randolph is a non issue in that he's NOT in consideration for the CAVs -- you would have to find a third team for that.

As for Curry, I was indifferent about him earlier and thought it would be O.K. to take him if we got David Lee, but after studying the salary cap implications of Curry on the CAVs 2010 free agent hopes --- I don't think Curry is worth it either.

If the Knicks think that David Lees value is a 5th pick in the lottery as was rumored, but never confirmed -- that would make a deal between the CAVs and Knicks that much more remote. David Lee is the CAVs primary interest and I am not sure anything can be worked out since the Knicks want to move one of their bloated contracts and the CAVs won't take one considering it would severely limit their opportunities in the 2010 free agent derby. You also have to factor in David Lee's contract ambitions which I understand are at least 10 million a year contract which I believe he is eligible for an extension since he is in the last year of his rookie contract. Lee's new contract makes a bloated contract of Randolph or even Curry prohibitive for the CAVs. A lot of teams are interested in Lee, but not at the price of taking on a bloated contract like Randolphs and Curry's to a less extent.