What can we expect to get for Wally's contract?

eyejayem · Post #21 » by **eyejayem** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:52 pm

I think Minn Miller trade but closer to the deadline because they want to get as many ticket sales as possible, but I think they do a:

Wally + Darnell Jackson+ Rights to Sasha Kahn + 1st

for

Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal

They instanly become players in the '09 free agency where there will be a handful a teams signing players. Minn is almost as bad an area for free agents as Toronto so less competition then 2010 would probably be best. They get two bigs in Jackson and Kahn who could possibly pan out in Russia. Plus they get a 1st which can be used to move up, in a future trade, or trade up in a future draft.

eyejayem · Post #22 » by **eyejayem** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:18 pm

It has to be Mike Miller. I dont see us bringing in someone who needs more than 10 shots a game t be effective. Right not Miller is taking around 8 to 12 shots a game and is avg around 15pts because he hits almost 2 3pts made a game. Wally is taking around 8 a game. Anyone besides Miller is going to take more shots and be less efficient meaning less effective. He grabs 6 rebs from the SG position, combine that with our already dominate rebounding team and we will destroy a teams hope of any second chance pts. A guy who avgs over 4 asts. Can you imagine having Lebron and Mo or Gibson or Delonte at the wings ready to shoot?

Plus Minnesota is losing, it is just a matter of time before the expiring looks great to save even more money and get a 1strd pick. If we can get that trade and Mcdysse... 60 wins is in the books. Get it done by New Years Ferry, I want to go undefeated from the All star break to the playoffs.

Post #23 » by **magee** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:36 am

It's Mike Miller and Mike Miller alone. Once the Cavs get McDyess, they'll trade for Miller. End of story.

eyejayem · Post #24 » by **eyejayem** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:51 pm

Think positive...Think positive...think...c'mon Ferry...

shrink · Post #25 » by **shrink** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:22 am

eyejayem wrote:I think Minn Miller trade but closer to the deadline because they want to get as many ticket sales as possible, but I think they do a:

Wally + Darnell Jackson+ Rights to Sasha Kahn + 1st

for

Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal

They instanly become players in the '09 free agency where there will be a handful a teams signing players. Minn is almost as bad an area for free agents as Toronto so less competition then 2010 would probably be best. They get two bigs in Jackson and Kahn who could possibly pan out in Russia. Plus they get a 1st which can be used to move up, in a future trade, or trade up in a future draft.

I'd do this deal, but I'm in the minority of Wolves fans. Some appear to be coming around though.

penzias · Post #26 » by **penzias** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:13 pm

Minny traded Walker, who is basically an expiring as his last 2 years are mostly unguaranteed, in the Mayo-Love trade to get Mike Miller, i doubt they get rid of him just for an expiring when his contract ends in only 2 years.

mg · Post #27 » by mg » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:48 pm

Windhorst mentioned in his podcast today that Jason Richardson could come available closer to the deadline but I think that is just a pipedream. He would be a better fit than Gerald Wallace who can't shoot.

Mike Miller is a fan favorite in Minnesota since he's from that area so I wonder if they would deal him. They could certainly use cap space and picks to rebuild. Minnesota gave up Walker's expiring and Cardinal in that trade for Love but the Griz coveted Mayo and were willing to give up Miller and take on Jaric's contract to get that deal done.

Odom is another guy that could probably fit as SF when the Cavs play small ball but I don't see the Lakers giving him up.

I'm not a fan of Salmons. The last few times I watched him play he was a major ball hog.

Vince Carter would be an upgrade but he is such a marshmellow. Not to mention his contract is horrible.

Post #28 » by **Cowology** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:29 pm

IMO most of the names mentioned in this thread are unrealistic. Guys like Miller, Salmons etc have more value than a simple expiring contract and I don't see their respective teams particularly looking to dump them. You would surely have to include either picks or prospects in such proposals and/or take back bad salary. The Wally +1st for Cardinal/Miller deal seems fairly realistic to me.

Typically the sort of player you get for a straight expiring is a productive, but vastly overpaid player. Somebody making 2 or 3 times what they are actually worth. That's because teams don't usually look to just dump salary - they look to dump *bad* salary. If they are looking to move *good* salary they are looking for picks/prospects etc in return. If a player has value, you need to get value in return. Not just cap relief.

Post #29 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:15 am

That flat out makes no sense for the Cavs. I can't see taking on that much salary for a fair to midland player. We might as well let him expire. But ordinarily, an expiring would be worth more than that.

Post #30 » by **Cowology** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:10 am

TheOUTLAW wrote:That flat out makes no sense for the Cavs. I can't see taking on that much salary for a fair to midland player. We might as well let him expire. But ordinarily, an expiring would be worth more than that.

Where is the proof that an expiring is worth more than that? People on RGM tend to vastly over rate the value of expiring contracts. How many trades can you mention where a valuable player is moved in a pure salary dump?

You could get something like Darko & Jaric. Probably somebody like Peja; an older overpaid former All-Star. But Mike Miller or John Salmons without taking back bad salary? Stephen Jackson? Not happening.

rjgraca · Post #31 » by **rjgraca** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:17 am

While the Laker trade last season is an extreme example -- Cow you're under valuing expiring to a team that's out of contention and needs to rebuild. That's how the Cavs got Mo Williams which is a better example than the Peja or Darkos (Jaric kills that ideal) ones you are offering up. The players have to fit your team or you are better letting a contract expire and drop below the luxury tax level.

Post #32 » by **Cowology** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:31 am

rjgraca wrote:While the Laker trade last season is an extreme example -- Cow you're under valuing expiring to a team that's out of contention and needs to rebuild. That's how the Cavs got Mo Williams which is a better example than the Peja or Darkos (Jaric kills that ideal) ones you are offering up. The players have to fit your team or you are better letting a contract expire and drop below the luxury tax level.

Let's not forget the Lakers gave up two 1st round picks, Crittenton & lil-Gasol in the deal.

And I think it's entirely possible the Cavs DO allow Wally to expire. I'm not really advocating any particular deal, just trying to give examples of the sort of value I think you can expect in return. And I'm not saying this because it's the Cavs - the Pistons have some $35-40 mil worth of expirings contracts themselves.

There are times when players get dumped, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but that goes directly to your point - they have to fit the needs of the team. For you to find a bad GM willing to dump a valuable player and for them to be the fit that you need? It's just hard to get all those things working together.

I think you can get a solid player out of Wally. I just think you need either need to give up a pick or two or take back a lil salary. That's all.

L&H_05 · Post #33 » by **L&H_05** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:37 am

Regardless, I think Ferry will do whatever to improve the team for this season.. Not sure what it will be ?? But, I do believe he will try to get another productive big and another shooter... Somehow, someway..

Windhorst did say I believe that the Cavs really want J-Rich in a bad way, or something along those lines...

vct33 · Post #34 » by **vct33** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:49 pm

It would sure be nice if we could pull of something like:

Wally & Andy + draft picks

for

Richardson & Morrison or Carroll

Then we sign a vet big for the minimum.

Benedict_Boozer · Post #35 » by **Benedict_Boozer** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:44 pm

If Ferry makes a move I also think it will be one that doesn't shift alot of players, especially if we keep our current pace.

I think at most Wally, Snow's contract, and perhaps a fringe guy like Pavlovic would be moved, possibly Boobie. I don't see him trading any core guys - even Andy - unless it's a trade that clearly moves us into contention.

L&H_05 · Post #36 » by **L&H_05** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:49 pm

AV is not going to get moved... We're thin up front as it is..

That trade VCT33 posted helps us in no way... Come playoff time we're not going to outscore people.. This system is about rebounding and defending, and none of those 3 are great rebounders or defenders... And I'm sorry, a "veteran big for the minimum" is not going to provide the same type of energy and hustle, and overall production that AV will bring...

AV won't be moved in a deal unless a truly talented big man is coming in return...

vct33 · Post #37 » by **vct33** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:03 pm

L&H_05 wrote:AV is not going to get moved... We're thin up front as it is..

That trade VCT33 posted helps us in no way... Come playoff time we're not going to outscore people.. This system is about rebounding and defending, and none of those 3 are great rebounders or defenders... And I'm sorry, a "veteran big for the minimum" is not going to provide the same type of energy and hustle, and overall production that AV will bring...

AV won't be moved in a deal unless a truly talented big man is coming in return...

I guess I don't value AV as much as most Cavs fans. Regardless, there is still a very really possibility that AV walks at the end of the year.

Also, a min salary big man could definitely be just as helpful in a playoff run. As a Celtics fan, there is no way I would have preferred AV over PJ Brown going into last year's playoffs.

L&H_05 · Post #38 » by **L&H_05** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:26 pm

vct33 wrote:
L&H_05 wrote:AV is not going to get moved... We're thin up front as it is..

That trade VCT33 posted helps us in no way... Come playoff time we're not going to outscore people.. This system is about rebounding and defending, and none of those 3 are great rebounders or defenders... And I'm sorry, a "veteran big for the minimum" is not going to provide the same type of energy and hustle, and overall production that AV will bring...

AV won't be moved in a deal unless a truly talented big man is coming in return...

I guess I don't value AV as much as most Cavs fans. Regardless, there is still a very really possibility that AV walks at the end of the year.

Also, a min salary big man could definitely be just as helpful in a playoff run. As a Celtics fan, there is no way I would have preferred AV over PJ Brown going into last year's playoffs.

That's last year.. AV is back to playing in the fashion that makes him valuable to a contender...He was injured last season..

Furthermore, what PJ was asked to do, and who he played with had a lot to do with the production in which we all saw... AV is a more effective player now than an aging PJ Brown... However, that was a perfect spot for him.. No way does PJ come here right now and provide us with more than what AV is bringing..

Post #39 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:19 am

I'd have been surprised if any Cavs fan would have preferred AV over many people last year. Anderson was terrible last year. However he's not only playing as well as he had 2 years ago, he's playing better offensively. Sure Anderson might walk, but he's still likely to give us a good shot this year to resign him. The hard feelings seem long gone.

vct33 · Post #40 » by **vct33** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:21 pm

L&H_05 wrote: No way does PJ come here right now and provide us with more than what AV is bringing..

That's not the point. A guy like PJ does enough to fill AV's vacancy when you are acquiring a guy like Richardson. The margin of upgrade from Boobie/Delonte to J Rich is vastly greater than the downgrade from AV to PJ Brown or Zo or whoever. And if you can actually get someone like McDyess, then you dance in the streets.