08-09 Cavs vs 95-96 Bulls?

[zmz72388]

Longley vs Ilgauskus
Rodman vs Wallace
Pippens vs Lebron
Jordan vs West
R.Harper vs Williams

key bench players

Kukoc vs Varejao
Buechler vs Gibson
Kerr vs Szczerbiak

What a great 7 game series this would be.

[witnessmoboobie]

I think that Jordan kills West or whoever is put on him and Lebron doesn;t quite make the difference up against a great defender in Pippen. I give Z the edge over Luc, Wallace and Rodman are pretty even, and even Harper vs Gibson/West is pretty close. I think its a great series but the BUlls would come out on top.

[L&H_05]

Yeah, it would be a great 7 game series... Too bad it would only go 4 games, and we would get curb stomped in every game most likely...

Look, I'm excited we're playing well, and I love that we're starting to get the recognition as one of the best teams in the league... But, we're not on that level yet...I don't care if the numbers would suggest otherwise, we're simply not...

Common sense must prevail here...

[prekazi]

We'd be lucky to win one game.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

omg..


this is horrible

[cavshats]

we would get destroyed........... and not too take anything away from big ben because he is great but dennis rodman in 95 96 was far superior too the 08 09 ben wallace, delonte west would just be too small too gaurd jordan And would get humiliated if he even tried too. I think if there was anyone ever that could gaurd lebron 1on1 and stop him it would definately be scottie pippen thats why we would never be able too beat that bulls team

[Miller4ever]

If this comparison comes about because of the Cleveland's record thus far, it's moot because Cleveland has been drubbing sub-.500 teams, with convincing wins against tougher opponents here and there. Feel free to bring this argument up after a championship or six. At least wait until the season's halfway finished.

[SportsInfoBar]

My thanks to the mod who unlocked this thread.

I think we would be a lot closer than most. Remember this Bulls team lost twice to a decent Sonics team.

Why could we make it a series? Because we play defense and rebound with the best of them. Sasha would have to start in this series though. You could play Lebron on Jordan at times with Sasha on Pippen. Delonte would not be able to play the 2 in this series.

Wallace could play a LOT of help defense though since he doesn't have to guard Rodman much. Same with AV, when he came in, he could help on Jordan...and Rodman would have to respect AV a little on offense.

Z, Ben, AV match up well with Longly, Rodman, Kukoc

Mo> Harper not by much..he is just a much better shooter than Harper, Harper was a better defender.
Lebron>>Pippen...Pippen was a great player, but he never had to guard a player as big and strong as Lebron....odds are the Bulls may have thrown Rodman at Lebron on D.
Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sasha

Gibson,West,Wally> Kerr, Jud (even though I think Kerr was one of the most underrated players in history, he was probably the best pure shooter of all time. Over 50% from three in 96!)

So as dumb as it sounds, on paper, it comes down to Jordan dominating his man, just like it did back then.

[BNT1120]

this is the dumbest thread.. just because the cavs are doing okay now you think they can go to game four with a legendary team. get real dearest. cavs would be lucky enough to loose by under 10pts each 4 games, and thats only if lebron drops 50 on all 4 games.

Watch the namecalling

[CzBoobie]

This thread is truly embarrassing...

[SportsInfoBar]

It is a shame none of you actually understand basketball and don't understand what you are watching now. You undervalue our players very much so. Z is a great player, way better than anything that Bulls team could throw at him. Andy and Ben would hold their own against Rodman. Lebron is better than Pippen and Mo is at least equal to that version of Ron Harper....so it comes down to Jordan being better than our whole team by a significant amount for them to win by at least 10, 4 times. Wouldn't happen.

That Bulls team was great, but a Sonics team with Kemp, Payton and not much else won 2 games from them. Who else did they have? Detlef Shremph, Hersey Hawkins? Sam Perkins? Really, we couldn't compete with that team?? They started Earvin Johnson at Center and NOT THAT Earvin Johnson (Frank Brickowski started some games as well!)! Our team defense and rebounding is better than this Sonics team..they had the best individual defender in Payton, but the other 4 guys weren't that great.

If Lebron is as a great as all you say, this Cavs team would win 2 from that Bulls team AT a minimum.

Are any of you even old enough to have watched games in 95-96??

As great as Jordan was, even he had some off games now and then:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 20SEA.html

And I am the wrong person to be calling names...if you want to continue I will give you my address and you can do it in person.

What is embarrassing is none of you can back up your claims that the Bulls would win by at least 10 each game...explain this logically. You truly undervalue teamwork and good defense and rebounding. Barring injuries we will win between 65 and 70 games this year, how can this not compare to a team that won 72?!?

Back up your claims if your going to make them....

[Leto]

Bulls fan here. I have to say that I like your team but against that Bulls team I don't know if you'd win one game. Remember, we don't even have to have Scottie gaurd LeBron. Rodman won Defensive Player of the Year twice (something Scottie never did) and was first team all-defense 7 times (Scottie was all-defense 1st team 8 times). When he was with the Pistons, it wasn't a surprise to see him gaurding MJ. He has the foot speed and strength to play with LeBron and I would have probably put him on LeBron instead of Scottie. I.E., Dennis was one of the best defenders to play in that era along with both Scottie amd Micheal and all 3 of them were first team all-defense with Rodman also winning the rebounding title for the 5th or 6th straight time in 95-96 season. And, don't underestimate Ron Harper who just shut people down. I doubt your gaurds would score 5 ppg. Ask Penny Hardaway and Nick Anderson how well they did in getting demolished in the play-offs.

Anyway, I think you guys have a good team and I think your team is capable of beating the Celtics this year. At least I hope so. I can't stand the Celtics and Garnett gets on my nerves. Go Cavs! Also, I think if you guys can win that LeBron will stay in Cleveland--which would be cool. I think that's where he belongs.

[SportsInfoBar]

I agree with you that Rodman probably would have tried to guard Lebron, which I think would have been bad for the Bulls..Rodman could guard bigs who were slower or smalls who were smaller...but Lebron is a lot bigger than Rodman and he would get Rodman in foul trouble....also for all the defensive greatness they still lost 3 times to that Seattle team (once in regular season, 2x in the finals.) This Cavs team is better than that Seattle team. Why? Because we have the 2nd best player of all time (one day maybe even 1st).

I really think it would be a series with each game in the 80's and low 90's because of how good the defense's would be.

As a Bulls fan do you think that team beats the 80's Celtics/Lakers? I remember back then saying that the Bulls were best of all time, and others saying the Celtics/Lakers would have beat them.

Parish-Kareem-Longly
McHale-Green-Rodman
Bird-Worthy-Pippen
DJ-Scott-Jordan
Ainge-Magic-Harper

I remember watching the Lakers-Celtics finals...and there was NO Defense, no matter how many times Magic gets on TV and talks about when they needed "stops" they got stops...not true.

[old skool]

The Bulls were much more of a TEAM than the current Cavs. The core players and coaches had been together for many years. They were in sync with weight training, and diet, and game planning. They were being pushed by Jordan - one of the most demanding players of all time. They had several players who could erupt for 35 points. They had several top defenders. They were a top team in the East in the year that they played WITHOUT Jordan. They had lots of playoff experience, having won three NBA titles. Jordan played in six NBA Finals and never once faced an elimination game. The Bulls were dominant.

The Cavs are a strong team and Lebron is a transcendent player. Give them the experience of three NBA championships, replace their three best players after Lebron with All-Stars, provide a coaching staff with accomplished winners on both the offensive and defensive ends, add in a couple of All-Defense players and the Cavs can compete with the Bulls.

Mo Williams is most comparable to the Bulls' Randy Brown, an energy player off the bench who can make big shots but who can't carry a team by himself. A player who accomplishes very little when not paired with a superstar. A player who succeeded with the Bulls but who accomplished little after leaving Chicago. Mo would not have been in the Bulls first seven player rotation in '95-'96.

oLd sKool

[SportsInfoBar]

Come on now, time must be fogging your memory.

Mo and Randy Brown would be a great comparison if Mo shot 40% from the field and 10%, YES 10% from three point range.

That Bulls team had not been together for years, MJ, Pip and Kerr...Harper was on his 2nd year, Kukoc 2nd year, Rodman 1st year.

They had several players who could erupt for 35 points.

Really, Jordan, Pippen and Harper (40, but THIS version of Harper could not do that) and who else? Kukoc career high was 34. Kerr 24 was career high, Harper

Guess how many players on this Cavs team have scored 35 or higher in a game? FOUR! Lebron, Mo(38), Z(35, twice) and WALLY (44!!!and yes I know this Wally wouldn't do that again)...and Boobie has scored 30+ in a playoff game and Delonte's career high is 31.

replace their three best players after Lebron with All-Stars,

Why? The bulls only had 3 all stars...Jordan, Pip and Rodman
This Cavs team has Lebron, Z and maybe Mo.

They had several top defenders.

So do we, our team defense is right up there with almost any. This team is much bigger than that Bulls team also...Rodman was a beast on the boards, but how many nights was he contending with a Z,Wallace, AV and Lebron for those boards?

They had lots of playoff experience,

THIS is the huge advantage that team would have...and remember I never said this Cavs team would win the series...I said they would be competitive and they would.

The Cavs are a strong team and Lebron is a transcendent player.

I agree and THIS is why you can't say the Bulls would have swept this Cavs team winning each game by double digits. Lebron would win at least one game by himself...this Lebron is light years better then the Lebron we had against the Spurs.

This ain't the Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes Cavs...this team has a TON of talent and is very very deep.

How would this years Celtics do against that BUlls team?

Perkins-Longley---this is close
Garnett-Rodman--adv. Celtics
Pierce-Pippen--close
Allen-Jordan--advantage Bulls
Rondo-Harper-advantage Celtics-- Harper could not keep up with Rondo...

That would be one heck of a series...and this proves my point even more about this Cavs team...we know we can play with that Celtics team and beat them.....

[heathmalc]

I have followed the NBA since I was a young kid (many millenia ago), and I can tell you without question, that this Cavalier team could not only compete with that Bulls team, but they'd have a good chance of winning.

Take into account a few things before you start calling me an idiot:

#1 The rules were MUCH different for that Bulls team. Hand-checking was allowed, nobody called 3-second violations... allowing Rodman to sit in the paint all day... and zone-defense was illegal. A zone defense meant that teams had to be real creative when guarding Jordan, because they weren't allowed to send three players at him. They could double him for short periods, but not like today.

The hand-checking: It allowed for players to be more physical. The only Bull that was nearly as physical as LeBron, was Charles Oakley...and he didn't play for them that year.

Jordan wouldnt be nearly as effective if today's rules were applied to him, because teams could throw zone-3 defenses at him, loading-up on his side. And if you want to use the old rules, then that means that nobody could be triple and double teaming LeBron all-day.

#2 Whatever rule-set you want to use, the Cavaliers have the deeper bench. They also have a better team-defense. Rodman was a great man-defender, but he had poor weak-side help-defense. However, due to the way teams played then, weak-side was not ever an issue. Jordan was not as good of a defender as he was given credit for. He was physical and intimidated players. Against the Cavaliers, Jordan would be facing a player (LeBron) that is every bit as marketable (and more) than Jordan ever was. So the intimidation factor would be evened-out. What would matter is that LeBron could take any Bull defender to the hole with him...with the defender hanging on him. Jordan, while a good-sized guy, was smaller than Sasha is. LeBron is Karl Malone with Magic Johnson's vision, and Dr. J's explosiveness to the basket.

Jordan was the better clutch-shooter. And he was also a beast in the open court. But if leBron is guarding him... he wouldn't be able to intimidate him. And although I know you Bulls fans (and others too) doubt that LeBron wouldn't be intimidated... keep this in mind: When LeBron went to Jordan's camp, right before his junior year in high-school, he played Jordan one-on-one. The game was 21, and Jordan won 21-17. But the point here is that a 16 year old boy, was playing against a legend, with all the world watching. Sports illustrated wrote it's article "The chosen one" shortly after this game.

Many of you think this Cavalier team is not as good as their record... but I contest that they may be even better than their record.

You want to argue that their competition is bad? Okay... Their opponents have almost an exact winning percentage as those of Boston. And Boston lost to Denver...IN BOSTON... Boston lost to Indiana..., and almost lost to them again in the Garden. Not to take anything away from Boston... but whether you want to use stats, or just "watch" the two teams play.... Cleveland is the more dynamic of the two teams. Cleveland is better.

Want to use stats? KG,Pierce,Powe, and Perkins are all playing worse than last year.... in-fact, they are on the list of 25 players with the biggest decline since last year. On the Flip side, the Cavaliers have nobody on that list, but they do have 3 on the list of 25 most improved (LeBron, Ilgauskas, and Varejao).

Fact is this. The Cavaliers are very good. And if they continue on this pace, they will be remembered as one of the best teams in NBA history.

I don't care who you root for... you are watching history right now.

If the series is in Cleveland... Cavs win 4-2
If the series is in Chicago... Bulls win 4-3

[SportsInfoBar]

95 Bulls after 27 games were 24-3

We are 23-4, one game off pace.

One other Note..if the C's lose to the Lakers on Xmas, after our game with them on the 9th we will be tied with them....

[Mr2400]

I agree with you that Rodman probably would have tried to guard Lebron, which I think would have been bad for the Bulls..Rodman could guard bigs who were slower or smalls who were smaller...but Lebron is a lot bigger than Rodman and he would get Rodman in foul trouble....also for all the defensive greatness they still lost 3 times to that Seattle team (once in regular season, 2x in the finals.) This Cavs team is better than that Seattle team. Why? Because we have the 2nd best player of all time (one day maybe even 1st).

to suggest that lebron is the second greatest player of all time at this point is absolute ridicule.

[SportsInfoBar]

I agree with you that Rodman probably would have tried to guard Lebron, which I think would have been bad for the Bulls..Rodman could guard bigs who were slower or smalls who were smaller...but Lebron is a lot bigger than Rodman and he would get Rodman in foul trouble....also for all the defensive greatness they still lost 3 times to that Seattle team (once in regular season, 2x in the finals.) This Cavs team is better than that Seattle team. Why? Because we have the 2nd best player of all time (one day maybe even 1st).

to suggest that lebron is the second greatest player of all time at this point is absolute ridicule.

In that 1996 Finals Kemp had a MONSTER series...so what leads you guys to believe Rodman would slow down Lebron? Now Kemp is better than Lebron??

Who in your "expert" opinion is the 2nd best of all time?
Don't even tell me Magic, Magic got to play with a championship level team from day 1. At Lebron's age, he is the BEST player of all time. Would Magic have led the 2006 Cavs to an NBA finals?!? Very doubtful. Time clouds how good players used to be. Bird? Oscar? I don't think so....Some of you probably think Babe Ruth is still the best baseball player of all time. The question is will he cont. to improve more and attain the total team success Jordan had?

The best players are not who wins the most championships, like a lot of "experts" say. Some players were unlucky with who their teammates were. A lot of people talk about how great of a winner Bill Russell was...Russell just happened to play with the best set of players in those times...place Bill on a middle of the road team and he wouldn't have won any championships. Russell Shot 44% from the floor as a center! That is bad. He had to play on a team with a lot of other GREAT offensive players. He was a great rebounder, but I would bet if you put Dennis Rodman playing in those days he would have averaged mid 20's per game in rebounds as well.