Ok, how about a real Cleveland/Detroit discussion

[HeroicKennedy]

Since the other topic is going to be nothing but flaming, hopefully this topic will stay courteous.

Anyway, like I said in the earlier topic, I really don't see Detroit pushing this to any more than 6 games. Detroit is a team rebuilding and guys like Rasheed already have a foot out the door. Curry has shown he's completely incompetent as a coach so any games that are won will be because what's left of the core steps up and do what they haven't done all season.

That being said, I don't think you've seen the last of the Pistons. I think in 2-3 years, using the capspace and bringing in a veteran coach (since I believe Curry's just a placeholder for the rebuilding years) Detroit will be right back at the top with Cleveland (assuming the Cavs do a good job replacing their aging frontline).

[Gordon Bombay]

should be a pretty good series...always good to play the pistons (well not really, the games are usually awful and hard to watch )

a fully healthy ai would have done some damage against us - well cause he always does lol

good luck to ya

[LoveThemCavs]

I will fess up, I wanted to avoid Detroit in the first round. I don't fear the Pistons or anything, but between the Pistons, Bulls and Sixers. There is no question that your team presents a more physical and experienced challenge than the other two. I would probably be a little more worried if the Pistons were playing better as the regular season is ending. I'm confident the Cavs win in 5, but most of those wins will be tight games. It's all a matter of style and the Pistons play how we like to play.

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Honestly, I think we're going to sweep you guys with at least 3 double digit victories.

In the one game you beat us this year, Iverson scored like 20 in the fourth if I remember correctly.

In the last game, where we only won by 6, Iverson was the only reason you guys didn't get beat by 10+.

You don't have Iverson for the playoffs. I feel that we are the exception to the "Detroit is better without Iverson rule" because he plays great against us.

Without him, I don't think you can score on us. Your strategy is to slow the game down. We're better at that. You hang your hat on defense. We play better defense. Your offense isn't great. We have the best player in the NBA surrounded by deadly shooters. Rebounding is a very important thing for your team. We're better rebounders, and we even beat you while getting smahed on the boards last time we played.

You have no answer for LeBron(sorry, Tayshaun cannot guard him, never has been able to). We have answers for Stuckey. Delonte can guard him, LeBron can guard him, Mo can guard him. He hasn't done anything against us. Prince's post abilities are a big part of your offense, LeBron is a guy on the list of guys who can take that away from him. Rip is Ray Allen with less range, the Cavs continually shut down Ray Allen game after game. We have an undersized backcourt, but the extra speed bodes well for us against rip. You have Sheed, we have Varejao. Sheed hates him and plays like TRASH against him. Z is infinitely better than Kwame. The only matchup advantage you have is McDyess, but the difference between him and Joe Smith isn't enough to even think about being a game-changer.

Even if you do keep games close, we have LeBron, you don't have a closer. Will Bynum is the scariest person on your team to me, and Gibson has been playing well lately, enough to cancel Bynum out.

Not trying to knock on Detroit, but I just see no feasible way that you guys beat us, if you win one game I'll be surprised. If you win two I'll be shocked.

[JDeuce23]

Here's how I see this one playing out:

I think the Cavs will run away with Game 1. The Pistons will look old and slow, an Cleveland will win by 20+. This will look very much like a 1 vs. 8 matchup.

Then I see Game 2 being a lot like the one from a few weeks ago...a very tough, grind-it-out type where the Cavs do just enough at the end to pull out a close one (probably LBJ by himself while everyone else stands around...I hate when they get into that mode).

Someone will come out and unexpectedly have a big game for the Pistons in Game 3. Maybe Bynum, but Detroit will do all the scrappy "little things" in this one to pull away at the end and avoid being one step from elimination.

Cleveland will jump out to an early lead in Game 4...in the 10, 12 point range. Detroit will close the gap late, but Cleveland will survive before coming home and finishing the Pistons off in Game 5. Once the Pistons get down by 15 pts or so in that one, they'll mail it in and start thinking about summer vacation plans.

I think the Cavs have an okay shot at a sweep...maybe 40% or so if they play all their cards right. But I really don't see this series going any longer than five games at the most.

[GoLebron]

It's tempting both to underestimate and overestimate the pistons. On the one hand, the pistons have been playing awful basketball with no fire the entire season. Rasheed Wallace looks completely disinterested in anything that is not referee-related; Stuckey is still basically a rookie pg; hamilton is not as effective running off screens without billups to set up the offense and get him the ball; and iverson is not even around, which would normally be a good thing for the pistons, but he's the only pistons to play well against the cavs this year.

On the other hand, we're all used to seeing the big bad pistons that have been rivals in years past and conference finalists; we still don't have the answer for a motivated rasheed wallace and the pistons have physical bigs; stuckey is a big guard who could potentially be a problem for the cavs small backcourt; and the pistons will probably be motivated against the cavs.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, but the fact is that the pistons just dont have the firepower anymore to seriously challenge the cavs. The cavs have a very deep team and Lebron James, whom the pistons have no answer for - prince is far from the defender he once was and Lebron is probably twice as good as 2007. The pistons basically used to be able to focus on Lebron and trust donyell marshall and damon jones to miss 3's, but that's not the situation anymore. The fact is that almost all of the advantages the pistons once had are gone. Yeah, I think the pistons still have some good basketball left in them, but not good enough to beat the cavs more than once in this series.

[L&H_05]

We should handle this easily enough...

We're just much better defensively and have a player that can dominate...They're playing Will Bynum a lot and I just don't if he's ready.. Hell, he's probably better than Stuckey though...

As for the Pistons rebuilding ?? It's probably most likely through the draft... Like I said after the A.I trade regarding the Pistons cap space ?? Who's gonna take it ?

Cleveland, Milwaukee, Detroit are all playing behind the 8ball when it comes to attracting FA... The Pistons were never really able to attract the guys looking for rings, like the Spurs and Heat were able to do so...

If a midwestern power like the Bulls were unable to attract FAgents to take money and play in that market, I doubt the Pistons can... The only card they can play is the Dumars card.. And quite honestly, I think it's a bit overrated IMO.. I believe the Pistons re-building process is going to be much longer than anticipated unless they can get a stud via the draft...

The fans were on the Boozer bandwagon for goodness sakes..

Good luck though...

[Benedict_Boozer]

DET is a solid team but as has been said, they play our style. It is a "comfortable" series in that respect, no run and gun, no dominant player like a Wade or Lebron type who can take over a game or two, etc. This is the type of series Mike Brown teams have uglied up and done very well in the last couple years.

I am expecting 4-0 in this series, and not saying that because I don't think DET is good. They are a solid club, but I like the match ups against them ESPECIALLY if Iverson doesn't suit up. If Iverson was playing we might have some problems, because he owns us pretty bad.

And bottom line, the Pistons can't stop LBJ. Prince knows it, all their guys know it.

[06rahmaq]

Detriot should not be a match up problem at all in any regard, they are a mess right now and that's enough reason for us to pounce on them from the get go. Watching their games recently, their offence is really not what it use to be .. there's no way they can score on us with the slightest ease. And well their defence is no way near that hard nose gritty D what it once was but nonetheless still respectable.. looking forward to some low scoring games

[gusman]

detroit fan here, very much expecting the sweep. I did bet my buddy 20 dollars that boston would beat cleveland in the finals

[HeroicKennedy]

We should handle this easily enough...

We're just much better defensively and have a player that can dominate...They're playing Will Bynum a lot and I just don't if he's ready.. Hell, he's probably better than Stuckey though...

As for the Pistons rebuilding ?? It's probably most likely through the draft... Like I said after the A.I trade regarding the Pistons cap space ?? Who's gonna take it ?

Cleveland, Milwaukee, Detroit are all playing behind the 8ball when it comes to attracting FA... The Pistons were never really able to attract the guys looking for rings, like the Spurs and Heat were able to do so...

If a midwestern power like the Bulls were unable to attract FAgents to take money and play in that market, I doubt the Pistons can... The only card they can play is the Dumars card.. And quite honestly, I think it's a bit overrated IMO.. I believe the Pistons re-building process is going to be much longer than anticipated unless they can get a stud via the draft...

The fans were on the Boozer bandwagon for goodness sakes..

Good luck though...

The capspace is less about outright signing free agents in 2009 and more about facilitating trades. Many analysts have pointed out that a lot of teams are going to make "Pau Gasol" like deals sending away quality players for cap relief due to a declining salary cap and luxury tax, not to mention with so many teams looking to cut costs and taking the load Stern's handing out.

High quality players could be available for nothing more than 2nd rounders, like the Marcus Camby deal but better players. That's why Dumars chose this year and didn't wait until 2010. Dumars isn't going to have to bid for players, teams are gonna have to bid for Dumars' capspace.

[L&H_05]

detroit fan here, very much expecting the sweep. I did bet my buddy 20 dollars that boston would beat cleveland in the finals

You lost based simply on the fact that it's impossible for the Cavs and Celtics to play in the finals... Your buddy was probably well aware of this and figured that was an easy 20.00... He was correct.

[06rahmaq]

detroit fan here, very much expecting the sweep. I did bet my buddy 20 dollars that boston would beat cleveland in the finals

You lost based simply on the fact that it's impossible for the Cavs and Celtics to play in the finals... Your buddy was probably well aware of this and figured that was an easy 20.00... He was correct.

LOLLLLL

[L&H_05]

The capspace is less about outright signing free agents in 2009 and more about facilitating trades. Many analysts have pointed out that a lot of teams are going to make "Pau Gasol" like deals sending away quality players for cap relief due to a declining salary cap and luxury tax, not to mention with so many teams looking to cut costs and taking the load Stern's handing out.

High quality players could be available for nothing more than 2nd rounders, like the Marcus Camby deal but better players. That's why Dumars chose this year and didn't wait until 2010. Dumars isn't going to have to bid for players, teams are gonna have to bid for Dumars' capspace.

Yeah, it''s definitely gonna have to come via that route, as I just can't simply see a player in his prime signing in Detroit.. Which is why I thought all the 2010 talk was weird, especially on the Bosh front..

It makes little sense.. There should be much more attractive options at that point than Detroit... However, the Pistons can turn it around with trades and the draft... But, I do believe that process takes a little more time than jsut two or three years... There's a bit of luck involved in that process... Lakers are a prime example based off your example... If not for being lucky on the Gasol deal, they're probably a middle of the pack type of squad, still looking to rebound from the Shaq&Kobe era... And that's LA, a great market with great weather that is attractive to players..Yet, they got lucky with the Gasol deal, and you couple that with drafting of Bynum and progressing him accordingly, you see the makings of a great team forming...

You figure Detroit is starting from scratch... The only two that probably have a chance of being there is Tay and Stuck... Rip will be 35 or 36 at that point in those 2 or 3 years.. So, the Pistons will need between now and then:
*3 or 4 talented bigs some that can score inside from the post, and some that can rebound and defend.
*A legit PG
*Some shooters to space the floor
*A takeover star type of player most likely
*Solid bench players

All of this while not even having a legit coaching staff in place to lay a solid foundation..Whether it's a defensive philosophy, offensive philosophy etc...

I just think it's going to take time.. Especially in a non-attractive market.

I view Detroit the same way I do Dallas.. They tried to hold on a little too long.. But then again, I can't blame them, cause look at what happened to Sacramento and Indiana and those teams that were great at the beginning of this decade throughout the middle of it.. It's very difficult to do what San Antonio did and just keep the fire burning... Luck is involved...

[HeroicKennedy]

detroit fan here, very much expecting the sweep. I did bet my buddy 20 dollars that boston would beat cleveland in the finals

You lost based simply on the fact that it's impossible for the Cavs and Celtics to play in the finals... Your buddy was probably well aware of this and figured that was an easy 20.00... He was correct.

I'm thinking he meant ECF, and his friend would still be wrong if he bet that Cleveland would beat Boston in the Finals.

[HeroicKennedy]

When Dumars took over Detroit, he had just lost Grant Hill. His first season he went 32-50. A year later they were 50-32 and in the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals. I think if he makes the proper moves (as many as they may be) then the rebuilding process may end after this season. Though I think we might have another 1-2 years beyond this where we aren't a legit contender, I don't think the Pistons are heading into some sort of half-decade+ rebuilding process.

[06rahmaq]

When Dumars took over Detroit, he had just lost Grant Hill. His first season he went 32-50. A year later they were 50-32 and in the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals. I think if he makes the proper moves (as many as they may be) then the rebuilding process may end after this season. Though I think we might have another 1-2 years beyond this where we aren't a legit contender, I don't think the Pistons are heading into some sort of half-decade+ rebuilding process.

I agree. i don't think the pistons are in such a bad position as people perceive them to be in.. i know the A.I acquisition was an experiment which would inevitably lead to a win-win situation for both parties.. Iam really looking forward to seeing how dumars plays his cards this summer because this could definitely be a make or break for the pistons for the next 2-3 years at least. With the aging vets you really have surround them with the right pieces, doesn't have to be a superstar, just 2 or more players that would fill the gaps which are evident now. i think dumars can pull something off but getting a new coach and the development of the youngins are vital to their short and long run success

[Roger Murdock]

If I thought the pistons cared or had an oz of self respect this season, I might be worried, but they gave up.

5 games max. At least 3 blow outs.

[kenneth9265]

Even if though detroit is a 8th seeded team, they are still very dangerous and should be taken lightly at all...

[RevMan26]

I will fess up, I wanted to avoid Detroit in the first round. I don't fear the Pistons or anything, but between the Pistons, Bulls and Sixers. There is no question that your team presents a more physical and experienced challenge than the other two. I would probably be a little more worried if the Pistons were playing better as the regular season is ending. I'm confident the Cavs win in 5, but most of those wins will be tight games. It's all a matter of style and the Pistons play how we like to play.

Couldn't have said it better. Not scared of the Pistons, but would rather play Chicago or Philly.