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I have never understood the fascination that fellow Cavs fans have with these two guys. Based on their salaries, they have got to be the two most overvalued players by fans. Zydrunas is certainly a high character guy, but he is a 7'3 center who does not play in the post. He adds absolutely no shot blocking ability and he is at best an average rebounder. It is incredibly frustrating to see a guard wrestle the ball away from Big Z. Defensively, his speed is such a liability that he cannot even guard the opponent's stiffs. Big Z is an great shooter for his size, but only an average shooter overall. He is so inconsistent with his shot that he is not a consistent enough threat that the defense will cover him. If he is not making his shot, he really brings no value to the Cavs since he is such a liability defensively and on the boards. It will be tough if not impossible to move Big Z because he is outrageously overpaid. If Ferry could get some value in return by itself the move would be impressive.

Another player who fans love is Varejao. I guess it is Varejao's supposed effort. However, throughout the playoffs I couldn't help, but notice that Varejao would take plays off defensively. Playing with high energy is great, but what other assets does he bring to the table. Varejao's defense is only average at best. He does nothing to slow down the better post players and still is beat by the guys who are average. Sometimes his energy gets him an extra rebound, but more often he is reckless and needlessly fouls someone trying to get a rebound he had no chance at getting. Great shot blockers can get away with being ok defenders, however, Varejao's shot blocking ability is minimal. Previously, I had hope that Varejao would develop an even limited offensive ability. That hope is now gone. I have seen no improvement offensively by Varejao. Players fail to guard him as a legitimate threat in the post or spotting up at the free throw line. I just do not see the value of a guys who gives you nothing offensively and is average at best defensively. There are other guys in the league you can bring in to do the dirty work. I heard today that Varejao is search for a contract worth 10 million a year. Resigning Varejao for that amount will be as bad as giving Big Z all that money. I would maybe offer him 5, but I think the Cavs can do more in free agency with the money. Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Channing Frye, Joe Smith, Martin Gortat, and Chris Anderson would all be better options to name a few.

I like the guys because I think that players like Channing Frye and Chris Anderson are comical in the way of replacements. This is a grass being greener synopsis of the Cavs players. Just because you replace them does not mean the team gets better. And the players that you are mentioning for the most part are not better. Yeah, I wanted Shead alot before he went to Detroit but now he is and on again off again player. Frye is a skinny perimeter player who really doesn't play defense. Gortat is a 6th man and I'm just assuming you are kidding about Anderson.

A few years ago Z was a post presence on both ends of the floor. He could block and challenge shots and get lots of easy buckets in the post with his size and good position. He was a big reason why we were one of the best defensive and rebounding teams in the league. Now he's just gotten too old and slow to do much of that anymore.

I've always viewed Anderson as a ok role player and yes he is severely overrated by Cavs fans. Drew Gooden was much better than Anderson. He's a great guy to come off the bench, but if he is going to cost a lot of money he should just be traded or let go.

The Orlando series made painfully clear that our frontcourt is a liability.

Well, I think most fans dont value these players based on thier salaries as you stated. I wont give you an argument on your evaluation on both players, but it seems you have an axe to grind here. When Ferry signed both of these guys, it was something he had to do to keep Lebron happy and sign his extension in Z's case, and in Andy's case, just what the heck would our frontcourt have looked like if he hadnt been resigned? We matched an offer sheet. It wasnt like Ferry or the fans for that matter valued him at that price, it was more of a matter of whether we needed him at that point.
Now, I wouldnt break the bank to resign Andy, and I doubt that Ferry could trade Z for much at this point. I know I value Z for sentimental reasons for more than what he contributes, but I think most Cavs fans like myself wouldnt be upset to see him dealt to improve this team. I might be a little melancholy about seeing him go, but I want to see a title here above anything else. It would be better if he were a part of it, but hey, a title is the ultimate goal.
And I also feel that we could probably use the $$ that Andy wants on a player that could give us more of a total game that the one dimensional skillset that Andy brings. But, the most important part of this equation, right or wrong, is how Lebron feels about moving/keeping/resigning these guys. He is the person who knows best how these guys fit, and whether there is a better fit available. Ferry is in a tricky position here, and will have to sell Lebron on whatever moves he feels he needs to make, and if what he does blows up, it could well affect this franchise in ways most of us dont want to discuss.

The thing about not resigning Anderson is that even if you dont want to spend the money on him, its not like you can magically spend the money on someone else. Sure you dont want to overspend and handcuff the team for years, but its not as if letting him go allows us to bring in other free agents this offseason (barring a sign and trade).

I, myself, hold a sentimental value to Z as well. Watched him get drafted, watched his struggle through the injuries and come back, watched him through the ups and downs of this franchise throughout his career. Cleveland is his home. Yes, age has caught up with him, but MANY of us want him to retire a Cav and to have his jersey hang in the rafters (at least that's what I want). But then again, if he can be dealt for a semi-star player who can bring us a championship, then so be it; but it would be sad to see him go away.

My only hope is that if he gets traded then he gets bought out and returns to the Cavs for the remainder of the season.

Pula_86 wrote:I have never understood the fascination that fellow Cavs fans have with these two guys. Based on their salaries, they have got to be the two most overvalued players by fans. Zydrunas is certainly a high character guy, but he is a 7'3 center who does not play in the post. He adds absolutely no shot blocking ability and he is at best an average rebounder. It is incredibly frustrating to see a guard wrestle the ball away from Big Z. Defensively, his speed is such a liability that he cannot even guard the opponent's stiffs. Big Z is an great shooter for his size, but only an average shooter overall. He is so inconsistent with his shot that he is not a consistent enough threat that the defense will cover him. If he is not making his shot, he really brings no value to the Cavs since he is such a liability defensively and on the boards. It will be tough if not impossible to move Big Z because he is outrageously overpaid. If Ferry could get some value in return by itself the move would be impressive.

Another player who fans love is Varejao. I guess it is Varejao's supposed effort. However, throughout the playoffs I couldn't help, but notice that Varejao would take plays off defensively. Playing with high energy is great, but what other assets does he bring to the table. Varejao's defense is only average at best. He does nothing to slow down the better post players and still is beat by the guys who are average. Sometimes his energy gets him an extra rebound, but more often he is reckless and needlessly fouls someone trying to get a rebound he had no chance at getting. Great shot blockers can get away with being ok defenders, however, Varejao's shot blocking ability is minimal. Previously, I had hope that Varejao would develop an even limited offensive ability. That hope is now gone. I have seen no improvement offensively by Varejao. Players fail to guard him as a legitimate threat in the post or spotting up at the free throw line. I just do not see the value of a guys who gives you nothing offensively and is average at best defensively. There are other guys in the league you can bring in to do the dirty work. I heard today that Varejao is search for a contract worth 10 million a year. Resigning Varejao for that amount will be as bad as giving Big Z all that money. I would maybe offer him 5, but I think the Cavs can do more in free agency with the money. Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Channing Frye, Joe Smith, Martin Gortat, and Chris Anderson would all be better options to name a few.

Great points.
if the Cavs could midlevel Gortat that would be great for them. or even Wallace who has 3-4 years before he get to be a ineffective as Z was.
Z is tradeable because of his expiring. And he could be bought out once they (maybe the clippers)see that he is through/done/over.

I am over sentiment. Sports is a business. Find the best players for the best value and forget the fact that you think kindly about someone. Who out there has not seen a co-worker get laid-off and said to yourselves, times are tough, I feel sorry for that person and there family. Tough decisions are made in the real world every day. These players have had their a$$es kissed their whole life (your the best kid, the best teen, the best player, I've ever coached.... you can get away with poor judgement because your the best....its okay....). We the fans are the real owners when we plunk down 50 or 100 bucks a seat every game.

Next time, ask your selves if a player is a hard worker or just can't perform at a championship level anymore, think about that money and it leaving your hand and how you feel watching another better player rip your heart out for another season and then think about players going home in their Bentleys to their millions. Skew Sentiment!

I'M TIED OF LOSING!

I have not purchased a Browns ticket since Art moved the team to Baltimore.
I have not purchased an Indians ticket and even watched an Indians game since we only picked up 41 year old Kenny Lofton and lost to Boston in the ALCS a few years ago
and I stopped watching the Cavs in game 4 with 8 minutes left. REALLY!

I have spent enough money and heartache on Cleveland sports to last a lifetime.

Maybe I'll turn on a game in the future when a Cleveland team runs a business successfully. I won't invest in a losing company in the stock market, why invest any time in a losing sports company.

Cleveland fans are "obsessed" with Z and Andy for a couple of reasons...

With Z it's loyalty -- and the fact that he's a stand-up guy who openly loves Cleveland back. The Cavs made the right move in re-signing him and his contract was generous, but not outrageous. Z did not play well this post-season, but in general he's been a very consistent scorer and rebounder. He may be slow, but with his height, length and strength, he can still bother most bigs. His offensive rebounding and tip abilities are stellar and he's a good spot-up and free throw shooter.

Andy is not currently overpaid, but I agree that we shouldn't overpay him. He's not worth more than $5-$6M in my opinion. He needs to realize that he's more valuable in a Cavs uniform than he is anywhere else. He does hustle and is a good defender. He doesn't block shots, but he's very good as a help defender and can body up with most bigs not named Dwight Howard. He has surprisingly good hands and his screen and roll with Lebron is his most effective offensive move.

Separately, Drew Gooden is a much better offensive player than Andy, but he is a mediocre defender and is much more prone to inconsistent play in general. Note that Gooden rarely played in the playoffs for the Spurs. His lack of focus on defense is legendary. Nice guy, though and not a bad player to have for some offensive help off the bench.

I still think that the Gooden/Varejao are perfect complements to each other.

If I were the Knicks or Warriors, I'd be low balling Gooden into a contract. If you're not concerned about defense, Gooden should shine.

You are right McFly, Goodens issue is not so much defense as help defense and the Knicks are encouraging teams to shoot early, that should be right in Goodens sweet spot.

I'll never understand the Z love.. I get loyalty and all that stuff, but we're not talking about a legend here.. For whatever reason, most Cavs fans were never really able to understand that Z was someone that was holding the Cavaliers back.. It's just now, when the stakes and expectations were at their highest point, that most of the fans are realizing this man needs to be a bench player..

He was never a true post up threat, and never a real dominant defensive center.. He was nothing more than a slow PF trapped in a center's body.. Someone you can run a little pick and pop with, and someone who rarely showed up in big games..

For years the Cavs could thow anyone at PF next to Z and that guy would easily be a double digit rebounder because of Z's presence. Those days are gone now. I still hope Z retires as a Cav but the stakes are higher now so Danny needs to do whatever he has to for the team to ultimately win a ring. Outside of LeBron there are no untouchables on the Cavaliers.

Z will retire a Cav. He's got 1 year left on his contract after which he'll probably retire. Not that it matters, if Ferry would be in a situation where he can only get a good player through trading Z, he's a bigger idiot than he already is.

Hopefully Ferry isn't in love w/ AV...he's nothing special. A hustle guy that could only - and should only - start alongside a guy like Shaquille O'neal in his prime...

Look at Haslem from Miami...nothing special but he can knock down any shot when he's open...money

Z is the man. I feel bad for him because I haven't seen him smile since Ricky Davis left the team. However, in my head, I imagine how a Lebron/Z reality show would play out. It's called "Z N' Me." The first episode is entitled "Zebran" where Lebron and Z go on a zoo adventure. Another episode is "Of Z Wagon" where Lebron confronts his friend about his drinking habits. The season finale is called "Z You Later" where Z gets traded to the Suns at the deadline for Amare and as Z walks off into the sunset, you can see Lebron crying hysterically in the reflection coming off of Z's head.