Statistical effect of adding Shaq and Parker as starters

[rogeber]

For anyone who's interested... the stats on Shaq vs. Z and Anthony Parker vs. Delonte are pretty interesting. Shaq is an obvious upgrade over Z statistically if he produces like last year, but Parker & West come out as nearly identical players using per-48-minutes stats instead of per-game. The article is here, with spider graphs: http://howtowatchsports.com/2009/08/anything-for-the-king-the-cleveland-cavaliers-offseason-moves-in-spider-graphs/

I get the feeling it's not going to matter one iota who starts at the 2... both of these moves (and picking up Moon) were about depth.

In full disclosure, I wrote the article... I'd love to hear feedback.

[Furrski]

Nice job...don't think your article actually states that it uses stats from last season...glad you mentioned about Z's FG% being lower b/c he's a better shooter...maybe you could've also compared our bench this year to last year, tied them together statistically somehow since both moves bring huge upgrades to our bench...also could take more info on how Shaq/Parker were used systematically last year, and what they will be asked to do this year, how their stats may change...interesting read, nice job roge.

[Amon_Ones88]

Yea man awesome read. I will say though Parker adds more to the defense do to the fact that he has the length over delonte. But how baller is it that we will sit Parker and get the same if not more production from West. Shaq will also rough people up and play in the paint, then we bring in Shaq and let him play his fines game to spread the floor. I think this team is damn good. Lover the comparisons and as said before just wish you compared this years bench vs. last years to see how much better we will be there.

[rogeber]

You're right, charting the bench would be where the action is. In effect, we gave up Big Ben and Sasha and filled their roles with Z and West (or Parker). Ben was playing 20 minutes a game, but Sasha's playing time was really starting to dwindle... but now we've got real-deal backups in both the front and backcourt.

This is a really good second unit now...

[TheOUTLAW]

I don't think Parker will start at all. Anyone who thinks that Delonte was a problem last season is delusional. Shaq will actually add something beyond what his stats were last year. The Cavs had nobody that could finish around the rim last year other than LeBron the simple fact that he has to be guarded is an improvement.

[Rise Against]

West will definitely be starting.

[NashtyNas]

For anyone who's interested... the stats on Shaq vs. Z and Anthony Parker vs. Delonte are pretty interesting. Shaq is an obvious upgrade over Z statistically if he produces like last year, but Parker & West come out as nearly identical players using per-48-minutes stats instead of per-game. The article is here, with spider graphs: http://howtowatchsports.com/2009/08/anything-for-the-king-the-cleveland-cavaliers-offseason-moves-in-spider-graphs/

I get the feeling it's not going to matter one iota who starts at the 2... both of these moves (and picking up Moon) were about depth.

In full disclosure, I wrote the article... I'd love to hear feedback.

If West and Parker are gonna give the same production, there's no doubt starting Parker is the better option. It's not about statistic production, I think that's where you're wrong. It's the difference that Parker would bring with the 3 inches he has on West, being able to guard people much easier, as great as Delonte is defensively, the height just sells him short, while it wouldn't for Parker. That would be one less mismatch on the floor defensively for us.

[Niko23]

I think Delonte is getting too much slack for the performance in the playoffs, which some of it could be blamed on Mike Brown. But due to Delonte's mental condition and his flat out grit over the year last year there is no way he is not starting. Now....who ends the games.....could be a different story......and I am talking about you Mo Williams....

[Pula_86]

I doubt that Parker will start for the Cavs. Probably still the undersized Delonte-Mo back court. They will certainly make Cleveland better, but you have got to keep in mind that almost anyone looks good next to Big Z and Parker does not have to do a lot to match the anemic production of Wally and Sasha.

[Canomad]

West will definitely be starting.

i hope so parker in my eyes is only a slight upgrade over wally.

[Michael Jordan]

Parker is about 34 I think so he is not very fit. Look at him on the Raptors, he had trouble on defense. But he is going to make an effect on this team.

[justinphila]

good look cavs!

[Official]

You should think about using TS% instead of FG%. It accounts for 3P% and FT%. A better overall idea on how the team improved offensively.

Maybe use per 36 numbers, as it is more realistic. Per 48 is probably better for the graph and easier to see, but not really the true difference.

Anyhow, Cleveland definitely improved offensively on paper.

[rogeber]

Actually, per-36 numbers would come out the same since the graphs show differences instead of actual values. Per-48 is a standard measure, too, especially in APBR metrics.

That said, the reason I don't use the APBR's TS% here is that I like how it reflects the difference between a big man and a perimeter player by their FG%. Shaq and Z probably have about the same TS% (just a guess... Shaq has the better FG% and Z shoots better from the line and beyond the arc)... but that doesn't tell you anything about style of play.

The compromise, and what I should probably do, is use Effective Field Goal percentage, which gives credit for 3's but doesn't include free throws.

[nathkost]

Why not do a lineup of

PG: Mo Williams
SG: Delonte West
SF: Anthony Parker / Jamario Moon
PF: LeBron
C: Shaq

[HomieOmey]

Parker is about 34 I think so he is not very fit. Look at him on the Raptors, he had trouble on defense. But he is going to make an effect on this team.

I think his trouble on defense had much more to do with the lack of help on the Raptors. I think Delonte is a bigger spark off the bench, so I'd like to see Parker start. He gives the Cavs more size, and I expect his defense to look much more solid for the Cavs than it did for the Raps. Especially since he has James to help him.

[rogeber]

Why not do a lineup of

PG: Mo Williams
SG: Delonte West
SF: Anthony Parker / Jamario Moon
PF: LeBron
C: Shaq

For a couple of reasons.
- You don't want to start all three of your top perimeter players. Save somebody to come off the bench.
- LeBron can play any position, but he's undersized when playing against serious power forwards. Nor is the best use of LeBron to have him banging inside on every possession.
- You've got Varejao and Ilgauskas, both of whom are quite capable. This is definitely a small ball lineup, which I guess might have certain application, but typically you're going to want a little more height on the floor.

[D-WestFan]

Ugh, i hate how people want to start delonte...

The reason delonte wont start, is because he is the better player.. if he starts, with mo, lebron, shaq... there wont be too many shots for him... he should be coming off the bench in a Manu Ginobili role.

[LebronsCavs]

Why not do a lineup of

PG: Mo Williams
SG: Delonte West
SF: Anthony Parker / Jamario Moon
PF: LeBron
C: Shaq

This lineup should be tried, along with

Mo
Parker
Moon
Lebron
Shaq

[rogeber]

This lineup should be tried, along with

Mo
Parker
Moon
Lebron
Shaq

I like this lineup a lot. Strong defensively, with the LeBron/Moon/Parker trio. This will be great against anybody that's playing a PF that can spread... a Charlie Villanueva type that is a little more athletic.