Could Lebron ever be a secondary scorer on his own team?

eyejayem · Post #1 » by **eyejayem** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:31 pm

I was thinking about this yesterday. NBA TV was showing the NBA All Star games since the 70s til 2008. And they showed the 2005 lineup and I think the starting lineup was Shaq,Grant Hill, Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, and Lebron. Wow I didnt realize how small Lebron used to be. But Lebron was a guard that year and Cleveland was 3rd in the East(Wow!) but Lebron was the PG because Allen Iverson isnt. But everyone was so enamored with his passing ability. But what made me think about this was if we had a primary scorer and had Lebron run more Point duties I still think he would avg 20-25 pts and likely 10+asts. But who would score more than Lebron? Someone actually stated something to me a couple of days ago that made me think. If Washington wanted to get out of Gilbert Arenas' contract, Cavs are likely the only team that would give up the expirings to do it. I thought Gilbert or someone who had a scoring mentality but the skill to back it up would easily do(not too many like that in the league). But the most of unlikely chances since it is a rival but I could see Gilbert and Lebron as counterparts like Shaq and Kobe on the Lakers. The amount of open looks Gilbert would get, he wouldnt hesitate, and handling the ball more with a scorer like that would likely give Lebron his best chance at avg a triple double since he wouldnt have to put all the effort on scoring. Shoot I may be very wrong and it will be the first team with two players to avg 30pts a game.

Sorry if this is very off but there is nothing good on the board. If this is about Gilbert isnt coming to the Cavs then realize that wasnt the question. I dont think that would happen or ever happen. But I would like to see some interesting topics on the board. Something other than Shaq hasnt claimed a name yet or Andy booked his flight on Jetblue, he'll be here tomorrow, or Shaq punked Big Z(Actually I would want to talk about that...just a lil).

Benedict_Boozer · Post #2 » by **Benedict_Boozer** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:49 pm

The problem with not making James the primary scoring option is he is basically the most efficient offensive player in the entire league. Seems counterproductive to take the ball out of his hands for another perimeter player?

The only way I think it would work would be if it was someone like Amare coming here, or equivalent big man who is a big time scorer. Lebron could set them up with high quality looks around the basket pretty routinely and focus on other aspects of the game like passing, rebounding, defense, etc.

landphil · Post #3 » by **landphil** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:02 am

I agree about getting a big man like Amare who is a quality offensive threat but to make Lebron into less of a scorer and still have the team be as efficient, I think you would really need someone like Amare inside and a better perimeter threat outside like a ray allen or kevin Martin who could handle getting the ball and scoring it. Lebron is just so efficient offensively and he makes everyone else around him better as well while scoring a boatload so I think to make it equal you would need a very good big man, and a very good perimeter player. Mo could be that way but I dont think he is quite that good to make it even. Its all hypothetical tho but good question

bcortell · Post #4 » by **bcortell** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:10 am

Well he has said that if he had to choose a stat line it would be 22/10/10.. so yeah I guess he could be a secondary scorer.. but it would be tough to find one that would actually have that role.

eyejayem · Post #5 » by **eyejayem** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:47 am

I like the idea of Amare. I could see him becoming even more efficient and likely a +25ppg scorer. I think the backcourt with Mo and Delonte. Putting AV next to Amare would be phenomenal. I think that would be a more balanced lineup then Cle has had in awhile.

Roger Murdock · Post #6 » by **Roger Murdock** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:02 am

Only MJ and Wilt have a higher scoring average than LeBron. He is the best scorer in the league and wouldnt be at his best differing. Part of what makes him so good at passing is the way the d collapses around him.

mcfly1204 · Post #7 » by **mcfly1204** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:39 pm

I think any All-Star caliber big man next to LeBron is capable of putting up 25ppg. I will exclude Shaq from this due to age and the amount of playing time he will get.

CodyB · Post #8 » by **CodyB** » Sun Oct 4, 2009 10:57 am

Lebron is possibly is a top 5 passer in the league, he could master the point-forward position with a position small shooting guard with ease.

Someone mentioned that Lebron is the most efficient offensive player in the league. That may be so, however, if he were to sacrifice 5-6ppg, the Cavs would probably become a more potent offensive threat with a legitimate 25+ppg scorer.

Canomad · Post #9 » by **Canomad** » Sun Oct 4, 2009 11:59 am

no hes the man period. he should not play second fiddle to anyone.

eyejayem · Post #10 » by **eyejayem** » Sun Oct 4, 2009 12:23 pm

The sad part is that basketball is more than scoring but if you dont score the most points on your team you are "second fiddle".....wow. I thought basketball was more than points. I thought the leader was the leader and he can score at will but choosing to is the difference.

Just in case you are wondering and thinking that that doesnt happen: Last year Tony Parker led the Spurs in scoring and the year before Manu led the team in scoring(from the bench). But I am almost certain we all know that that is Tim Duncan's team and we dont even debate it but Tim does so many other things. But he is still the leader of that team and it is his team.

eyejayem · Post #11 » by **eyejayem** » Sun Oct 4, 2009 12:25 pm

Oh and if Lebron avgs a triple double and someone on the team avgs 2 or 3 pts more, who do you think is going to be MVP or spoken about more or believed to had led the team to the playoffs?

Post #12 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sun Oct 4, 2009 3:48 pm

It would be wonderful if the Cavs had someone that would allow LeBron to be the secondary scorer. LeBron is such a fabulous offensive player that it would be difficult to get someone that will convert at high enough percentages that LeBron would not be the primary scorer and it would be almost impossible to find someone that'd prevent LeBron from being the primary offensive player. That being said, I see Shaq as being the first option for the Cavs this year.

Baseline Runner · Post #13 » by **Baseline Runner** » Mon Oct 5, 2009 4:09 am

If Lebron came into the league like Magic did with a team full of all-stars and hall of famers, his career would have taken a different path and he'd most likely be that 22/10/10 guy today. Unfortunantly he's had terrible supporting casts, especially offensively, and the team has needed every ounce of offense they've had from him for what little success we've had.

This year we may see more of the Magic side of Lebron. Shaq at 38 is still a huge force in the middle and the best player Lebron has ever played with. With Lebron's talent at passing through traffic inside to big men, he'll be getting easy assists and Shaq easy dunks all day. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lebron average something like 27 points and 9 assists this season.

On a side note, the top 5 teams in the NBA are all excellent but people are really foolish to understimate the Cavs this year. A Lebron/Shaq combo will be truly dominate and we should win it all this year barring injures.

Kabookalu · Post #14 » by **Kabookalu** » Mon Oct 5, 2009 5:14 am

LeBron is one of the best and most efficient scorers in the history of the NBA, to find someone that could surpass him in scoring, you would need to somehow manage a number one pick that has even more hype than LeBron did, or fleece someone even worse than the Lakers did with Memphis, but how likely is that? If you mean to limit his offense so he can concentrate on other things, you would be purposely limiting one of the most prolific AND efficient players in the league at scoring. I just don't see a point in it. LeBron just needs another reliable scorer next to him.

eyejayem · Post #15 » by **eyejayem** » Mon Oct 5, 2009 11:12 am

Lebron is one of the best scorers...yes but to say he is one of the most efficient is pressing the line. A case can be made...yes. But he is one of the most efficient scorers at his position as Jordan was for SGs(~50% FG is rediculous). But big men are meant to avg ~50%. So if you had a big man option like Amare(career 54% FG) who is capable of scoring 25+ he is the more efficient scorer on the team because he also doesnt do it at the basket but also has range. Shaq(career 58% fg) should have a bump in pts due to more attempts because of easy looks Lebron will create. And I hope that Lebron bumps up to over 50% fg due to the looks he will get also. But to have that inside prescence with a fg% like that would only help out both players. And takes Lebron to be the #1 option on every play.

Kabookalu · Post #16 » by **Kabookalu** » Mon Oct 5, 2009 6:55 pm

Going by raw FG% yeah but his TS% is ridiculously high, you could say it is Shaq like. Also at this point, none of those guys are better scorers than LeBron. Biedrins isn't getting anymore touches because he's wildly efficient, neither is Tyson Chandler.

eyejayem · Post #17 » by **eyejayem** » Mon Oct 5, 2009 11:16 pm

Yeah those guys arent getting anymore touches but they arent avg ~25pts per game like Amare. Amare could score 25+ pts per game. Especially if you have to double Lebron at most times. Amare's fg% may go to 60% on the same amount of touches and still score more points while Lebron could score the same on less touches.

Kabookalu · Post #18 » by **Kabookalu** » Tue Oct 6, 2009 1:32 am

Amare's not going to be averaging 25ppg on 60% shooting when LeBron is doing his 27ppg thing. You can't expect a player's points AND efficiency to go up; usually one or the other goes up, not both, especially at such large increments. Amare only broke the 25ppg once and that was before his surgery playing in Phoenix's run n' gun system.

eyejayem · Post #19 » by **eyejayem** » Tue Oct 6, 2009 4:16 am

07-08 PHO 79games 33.9 min/59.0 fg%/ 80.5 FT%/16.1 3pt % /9.1 rebs/1.5 asts/0.8 stls/2.1blks /25.2 pts

All I do is look at stats man. This is the season before last and two seasons after his surgery. 59 fg% and 25pts per game. And this is with only Nash drawing doubles. No Jrich and no Shaq. The season you are talking about is the 04 season when he avg 26pts but only shot 56%.

I dont think it is impossible for both of them to avg ~25pts but in order for Lebron to avg 10 boards and 10 asts, I can see his scoring going down if he had that option. that is all I am saying. But like I said there are only a handful of players that can do that from the last 20years. Highly nlikely but not impossible.

Kabookalu · Post #20 » by **Kabookalu** » Tue Oct 6, 2009 6:19 am

That one flew over my head, but again you're expecting his points AND his efficiency going up? When Amare did have Shaq and J-Rich on his team, his efficiency and points went down. They did slow it down a lot, but then it also questions how much value having so many people drawing double teams holds water when it comes to drastically increasing your scoring and your efficiency. LeBron is a great playmaker and he would make Amare better but let's not act like Steve Nash was chop liver himself. You have to question is it worth limiting LeBron's scoring and ability to draw fouls, his greatest trait, just so he can increase his scoring numbers to the point he averages a triple double for the season? Seems like a goal just to feed the ego. Let the man continue to wreck havoc. If Amare was on the team, there's no way he's the primary scorer over LeBron, and he's not getting more touches just so LeBron has enough energy to grab a triple double on every single night.